Ruger #3 Success

[offshore44]

The wife has wanted a single shot rifle for awhile now. We finally found her one that she likes. It's a Ruger #3 in 45-70. Being recoil sensitive, it's been a challenge to get a load worked up for her. After trying a bunch of loads, we have success!

The boolit is a Saeco #017 round nose flat point. It is 350 grns, gas checked and lubed with Lar's BAC. The alloy is range scrap mixed with just enough pewter to get good fill out when cast at 720°. I tried a bunch of different loads of appropriate powders. Finally settled on 13.5 grns of Red Dot. I have no idea what the velocity turned out to be, and it really doesn't matter much. She can shoot it, enjoys it and shoots it well. The impact is about 3" high from where the sights are currently set. Group sizes are about 2 - 2 1/2" and shrinking as she gets used to the rifle and load. It's time to adjust the sights and get down to final load adjustments for best accuracy.

A couple of things have really surprised me. This combination leaves the bore in perfect condition. No powder fouling, no leading, nothing. Just a clean, shiny bore. One round or fifty. It's as good as, if not better than, my paper patched loads in my big bore. Amazing! It's cheap. About 500 loads to a pound of Red Dot. Range scrap is free for digging out of the berm. The additional pewter comes from alloys that are left over from my other casting projects. This load doesn't seem at all picky about exact alloy content. Primers are what they are, of course. The brass is nice and clean; and required only minimal sizing to reuse. If I open up my lube-sizing die just a little (0.001" or so) the brass won't even need to be sized. I'm guessing that the brass will last a very long time. I doubt that this load needs the gas checks, but I've got a bunch of them, so I'm using them for the moment.

I do have a couple of questions. How fast do you think these things are going? I'm guessing about 1,300 fps or so. Maybe just a hair faster. The wife hunts with me. Deer, Elk, the occasional black bear. She would like to hunt with this rifle and load. The ranges are very rarely 150 yards in the local area, and most shots are 80 yards and less in the thick vertical pucker brush country around here. I'm guessing that these ought to go clear through our local Black Tails, mostly through the local Elk and do a fine job on the little local Black Bears when the need arises. Yes? No?

Anyway, the wife is thrilled with her single shot rifle in 45-70 and the load that she now has. I'm thrilled that the load is cheap and easy and that she likes to shoot it. I guess that we'll see how useful it turns out to be.

[bigted]

sounds like a perfect combo for your wife. dont know about the Red Dot powder but if you are running a 350 grain boolit at 13 to 1400 FPS ... there would be no reason that the small black tail deer would be any problem at all. the elk on the other hand ... if you live in Black Tail real estate that im familiar with ... the Roosevelt elk are the largest in the elk world. they will maybe take a bit more steam in the rifles boiler to get the job done with consistency. the lead should be a bit softer then range lead so it can obturate on contact with the larger body of your elk.

would like to see photo's of her new toy. they are a good looking rifle indeed and lite enough to carry all day long.

[offshore44]

Yup, the real estate around here is pretty much what you are familiar with. Big spruce and fir with lots of alder and brush. Vertical geography.

The local Roosevelt's are pretty large, one will feed a family for a awhile. I have a nice 405 grn mold that she can use for the Elk, I guess. Run the velocity up a couple of hundred fps and see what happens. 405 @ 1400 - 1500 may be doable for her on occasion. Probably not something she'll want to shoot a bunch of though. She only has one or two shots at the most at one anyway. Recoil at that point is probably a non-issue. (thinking out load there...) Going softer on the lead is a non-issue as well. Right now it's running about 10 - 11 bhn.

I'll post up some pictures tomorrow. That #3 is going to be a good hunting rifle for her. Like you say, it's light and compact. Very easy to carry all day. Dead reliable and easy to take good care of. The wife likes the "fancy handle". She is already talking about leather accessories for it. A scabbard, bandolier or bullet pouch, sling, those sorts of things. Women gotta accessorize, it seems. It does mean she likes it though. Thanks for the reply.

[winchester 71]

try 457122 it is a gould hollowpoint, recoils less at higher speed and at 20 to 1 lead it makes a
great mushroom that really tips deer over...........

[bigted]

i agree with your 457122. i have this mold and i snipped the pin so i have a solid which nets a bit more weight ... however ... the Elk in that country are sometimes hard to kill and ... wounded ... those critters will really cover the real estate ... in brush like you never seen unless you are familiar with the coast range in oregon and washington and viney maple. that maple is just a terror

i have chased elk thru it and had to drag my rifle behind me on hands and knees ... as the elk just throw their head up so their antlers are along their back and freight train thru the same crude. there is where the heavier boolits need to come into play. even with large mule deer it would require three to equal a fair size Roosevelt Elk. besides that ... the meat is so sweet when you get an Elk if it just lays down and dies without a bunch of acrobatics. otherwise the adrenaline seems to give that sweet meat a strange taste.

my #1 Ruger loves the 457122 boolit tho and i can really get em on fire from that rifle. it wears a Leopold 1 thru 4x scope and seems to balance very well with this configuration.

i would grade elk as equal to the big bears up here in the willingness to withstand a bunch of punishment ... if not hit rite ... before they pass into the happy ground up yonder.

yep i do know about the fairer sex in their ability to accessorize just about anything ... and i agree with you ... she must really like the rifle if she wants to do so to/for it ... LOL

[John Allen]

offshore44, thanks for the post I was looking for a good screw around load for my No 3. I am going to give this one a try.

[offshore44]

Bigted, you know exactly what I'm talking about! We have some general rules on when to shoot...no down hill shots, nothing on an edge, no Texas heart shots, that sort of thing. Those coastal Roosevelt's are tough to hunt. Cagey buggers. Worth it though. Spent two days tracking and stalking a nice herd last season with no success. A co-worker and his cousin bagged a nice three point and a spike out of the same herd. Apparently we hazed them down to the edge of his cousin's dairy farm. Oh well, it happens and I'm happy for him. The other herd we were tracking all summer just evaporated. Must have been beamed up by aliens or something. They were there one week, and just gone the next. That's why they call it hunting and not killing, I guess.

I'll check out the 457122. I have two molds in the queue right now, so it will have to wait a bit for funds. Thanks for the tip on that one, winchester 71.

I think that you'll like the load John Allen. I didn't come up with it, particularly. It's a minor variation on "The Load" for military rifles. Make sure to use soft lead alloy and a soft lube. That seems to work better than otherwise. 1/4 to 1/2 grain differences in load don't seem to effect accuracy all that much, so it's very forgiving. Try starting at 13 grains and work up in 1/4 grain increments looking for best results. The primers are still round on the edges at 13.5 grains, but don't hot rod it. I have no idea what happens above 14 grains.

Thanks again for the reply's!

Edited to add: I went out and looked at the 457122. Fine looking bullet, that. It's definitely on the list!

[EDG]

Offshore & John Allen
This web site has data on Red Dot with a 350 gran bullet you might use to guesstimate your velocity.
Also loads with similar powders. Just make sure you DO NOT DOUBLE CHARGE.


http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[offshore44]

That's a good site. He put a LOT of work into the data he has collected and published. I can recommend that site as well, as I have used it for a reference from time to time. Good point on the double charge issue.

[bigted]

offshore44 ... looks like i may just get the opportunity to return to your area. the number 1 thing i look forward to is an Elk hunt in the Elliot state forest. i am sure that after 30 years it has changed some but i am hoping that the herds still wonder thru there as they used to. i remember a herd we chased that would up back on the ranch near Reedsport. they hovered along the highway there and we had to tuck tail and find another herd to chase.

used to like to go up on Weirhouser land. straight up n down there. i also would not shoot at an animal on the downhill side of the road. matter of fact ... we just never looked down as sure nough there would be a temptation for excersize in excess.

i look forward to living where it is a bit warmer through out. where a feller can hunker under a lone cedar tree and wait out the rain. been under one of these a couple times and watched other hunters walk by never having a hint i was there ... afraid to breath for fear they would lite up my tree and maybe scare a turd outta me. LOL. yippy ... cant wait.

think i will play with my #1 in anticipation and get my mouth watered up for elk stew.

i have loaded the LEE 459405 hollow base boolit to good use for a heavier 45-70 load. i seem to remember a load of 48 grains IMR 3031 for a useable load. it is not that heavy in my #1 however it may be a bit much for her in a #3. another great load is 34 grains RL-7 under the 460400 boolit from accurate molds. i like this configuration for the fat flat nose and easy shooting it provides.

[offshore44]

Nice, bigted, the hunting in the coast range is about the same as always. We don't get that far down the coast very often, and have never hunted that part. Send me a note when you get down this way, maybe we can work out coffee and compare notes.

The north end of the coast range is being over run with road hunters. A lot of these folks have no business in the woods, let alone hunting in that terrain. We had a group of five walk right by us this last season, twice. Never even knew we were there. We don't wear camo or anything, just woods cloths. They would probably have taken a shot at noise or movement, so we didn't do either until we were sure they were long gone. It's a bit concerning at times. Awhile back, we had a guy just walk into camp, he then proceeded to try and pick up my rifle off the camp bench without asking. It was sitting ready to get wiped down and oiled after a days hunting in the ick. There's a reason I carry my 44 SBH in a shoulder rig at all times now. No accounting for some folks.

Know what you mean about the #1's. After shooting my wife's #3, I'm really getting the itch bad. Maybe re-barrel to a .405 Winchester or something else rimmed and unusual. It'll have to wait awhile though. I'm broke, as usual.

Have fun with the #1, they are a fine shooting iron of the old school. Let us know how it goes.

[Good Cheer]

Oh my. Just thinking about all the dumb ol' No.3's that I could have had!

[tacklebury]

I do a 330 Lyman Gould bullet with 34 gr. Reloader7. I think it has less perceived recoil than the pistol powders and is really clean for me. Might be one to try anyway. ;) Think velocity was about 1400 fps also. ;)

[offshore44]

Thanks tacklebury, another load to add to the notes!

[helice]

I was encouraged to use 13 grains of RedDot in the 444 Marlin using either the 280 or the 300 grain boolit. It is a very gentle load but it has a lot of authority with the heavy boolit.

[JackQuest]

I bumped the Unique in 45-70 thread just a few minutes ago...

Pushing the RCBS 45-405-GC with 14 grains of Unique. Carved my own stock from a Boyds laminate blank; the weapon is more properly a "Ruger Number 2". Perceived recoil next to nothing with this load. I remember reading others pushing up to 15 grains Unique behind this bullet weight, and that the energy is about the same as a full charge of black powder, minus the big cloud of smoke. A lot of buffalo were slain with black powder in the 45-70, so even these "light" loads should be deadly on anything in North America with a well placed shot.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Comparing a load to what worked 100-150 years ago has helped me alot keep things in perspective also. I shoot a 45-60 and also a 50-95 in repeater lever guns. The 45-60 came along first. I figited trying to wonder what I could safely hunt with it..until I remembered history. Fellers used to use 45-60's to hunt bears of all types. Elk,buffs, cougars and even whitetails ! Maybe the average white tail of today in some places are larger but they still do not ride around in a 113.
And forgot the 38 Extra Long in the Ballard (remarked 38-50)! No telling how many black bears and train loads of whitetails that poky old round took care of from 1870 onward.
Maybe none of these cartriges are meant to shoot from ridge to ridgeline out in Idaho but where I hunt a max shot is 50 yards and they all will take care of matters real fast.
Yea a 300-350 grainer chugging along at 1100 to 1250 fps will go through most any critter I will ever see in the river bottoms and wood lots I visit, walk through and hunt in central US of A.
Mike in Peru

[offshore44]

That's a good sanity checks, right there. Lot's of critters have ended up in the pot over the years as the result of soft lead and some pretty slow velocities compared to today's uber-shutzen-boomers. The hole that these things make (comparing my 45 x 2 1/2 belted express at about 1,800 fps) is rather large going in and coming out compared to, say, a 300 win mag. I have never recovered a boolit. I got to thinking of all the game that may have been harvested with a 45 cal round ball. Those are what, 145 grns? Tooling along at about 1400 fps? The wife is happy with her new toy, and shoots it well. She ought to do well at the 50 - 100 yard ranges that we hunt at around here.

[JackQuest]

When I stumbled upon a new/used 45-70 Ruger #3 barreled action that someone had started as a project gun and never finished, I then dove headlong into the deep end of the loading pool for said cartridge. I've loaded .222 and .223, 6mm, 30-06, 7.62 NATO, 308 Norma and even 375 H&H. The "lowly" 45-70 is perhaps one of the oldest "modern" cartridge we still have today. It survived the transition from black powder to smokeless just fine. Now that we can build them with uber-strong actions and barrels, and feed them modern smokeless powders, we can push these beasts to within 10% of the muzzle energy of the more exotic rounds just like the 375 H&H. But we can back load them to plinker status a lot easier than a 375 H&H. No dacron required to keep the charge near the primer. 14-15 gr of Unique does a good job of filling the case, no chance of a double-charge. Heck, the primer flattening of the 14 gr Unique load and the 55.5 gr WC844 load is the same! The recoil is NOT!

[offshore44]

The only thing the 45-70 doesn't do well is feed reliably in a bolt gun.

[No_1]

The 45-70 is an awesome cartridge. My first 45-70 rifle was a Ruger #3 followed by a Marlin Guide Gun, A Siamese Mauser and finally a Ruger #1. I have used up to 53 grs. of 3031, 15 grs. of Unique and an unmentionable amount of 4198 with success behind 405 gr boolits but really like 28 grs of 3031 and ~15 grs of Unique the best. I now have a 350 gr mold to test with once I get a chance.

[helice]

I have been told that the butt stock for a #1 will fit the #3. Is this true?

[No_1]

Yes it is