Cast bullet for No. 4 Mk II

[mdi]

OK fellers, bear with me, I've not cast for rifles with odd bores. I have a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk II* with a groove diameter of .318". I want to shoot lead in it and will prolly get an 8mm mold and size down to .318"-.319". My concern is the cartridge with oversize bullet chambering. I have shot a box of factory ammo (with .311" bullets) and measured and compared the neck OD of a fired case with an unfired round. I get .005" average difference larger for the fired cases. I'm thinking the cartridge with the larger bullet won't fit the chamber and besides a chamber cast wonder how to proceed before getting molds and spending money for .319" bullets (or a doomed project). BTW I also plan on trying to swage 321" or .323" jacketed to .318" but that's another project.

I really like my military rifles, but reloading for them is a real pain with their odd bore sizes (a 7.62x54R with a groove dia. of .315", an SKS with .313", a No.4 Mk II with a .318").

[Outpost75]

You didn't say whether your No. 4 MkII* is a 2-groove barrel, but I expect that it is. The lands of the 2-groove barrels are wider than the grooves and displace metal in order to fill the grooves. You shouldn't need to go as large as .318", but the best way is to measure a chamber cast and load the largest bullet which will produce a loaded cartridge neck diameter which is not less than 0.0015" smaller than the chamber neck on the casting. Factory .303 brass runs 0.013-0.014" neck wall thickness and you can buy yourself a few thousandths and improve uniformity by lightly turning the case necks, just enough to remove the high or thick spots, not necessarily cleaning them up all around, but set your neck turning tool to 0.012" wall thickness. You should be able to then load a .315-.316" bullet which will shoot well. THAT is what I do in my ROF(F) 7/43

NOE #316299 cast of wheelweights, sized .315" in neck turned cases with 30 grs. of IMR4064, RL15 or Varget is a good load.

[JeffinNZ]

Two groove LE's can be rather forgiving if you get a bullet with a long bore riding nose. My 2 groove is .317 but shoots VERY well with .3165 bullets. You could get an 8mm bullet and size to fit the throat. Shoot the fattest bullet you can easily chamber.

[curator]

Would a No.4Mk2 have a 2-groove barrel? Most No.4Mk2s never saw service and are more uniform in bore diameter than war-time guns. The OPs gun having a .318 groove sure sounds like a 2-groove barrel, but I think more information is needed to help him with his problem

[Bloodman14]

I didn't know they made a No. 4 Mk. II*. It should be a 5-groove ( my Fazakerly 3/54 is).

[mdi]

Yep, 2 groove bbl. Savage No. 4 Mk II*. Barrel has South African markings. Barrel slugs at 318" groove diameter (two or three times). Have not attempted a chamber cast as yet (working on getting cerrosafe). I have some 8mm jacketed bullets coming, perhaps I'll swage one to .318" and load a dummy to see if it fits chamber.

Thanks for all the info so far!

[curator]

MDI,

Ok, now I understand. Your Savage is a "No.4Mk1*" made in the U.S. by Stevens/Savage in Chicope Falls. Most of those were made with 2-groove barrels, a war-time expedient. I have a couple myself and found getting them to shoot lead boolits a bit of a challenge. I believe all No.4Mk2 Lee Enfields were made with 5 groove barrels (unless someone purposely switched them) and had a different method of bolt removal than the No.4Mk1* models. Check out this link from Steve Rewell's "303 British" website: http://www.303british.com/id37.html

I found the information very useful in getting cast boolit accuracy from several war-time built Lee Enfields

[mdi]

OOPS! Don't know what I was thinkin'. Yes, No. 4 Mk I*. Mebbe it was that MK II I saw? Or mebbe my Mk I grew up into a Mk II? Thanks for the link. I really enjoy shooting my No. 4 Mk I* but I know it can be a lot better if I can get ammunition to fit. This is one of my three military surplus rifles and the one I enjoy the most. Thanks...

[Jack Stanley]

I had Veral Smith make a bullet mould for me for a rifle that needed .318" diameter bullets . They worked perfectly for that rifle . When I found a Savage number four it needed bullets near .316" and the bullets from Verals mould sized and worked fine . Since then that mould has fit and functioned in every .303 chamber I've seen including a number four MkII that had groove diameter of .312" . It also works pretty well in a Russian that runs in the .315" range .

All is not lost , if I had to do it over again I'd have either Veral make one for me or get one from Accurate .

Jack

[303Guy]

BTW I also plan on trying to swage 321" or .323" jacketed to .318" but that's another project. Don't do that. The two-groove barrel will shoot .310 jacketed's with fine accuracy (if the planets all align with Mars). The deep groove is needed to allow the swaged bullet room to expand into. It doesn't matter that there is clearance in the groove - just as long as the bullet is properly aligned in the throat. My two-groove is very accurate with 180gr .310 PRVI Partisan bullets which are boat tailed. You might consider a .311 sizer for the .323 bullets.

Getting back to cast, I'd suggest sizing the boolit bases to just large enough to seat in an unsized case neck from your rifle sufficiently tight to hold the boolit without expanding the neck (or compressing the boolit). There will be little recoil so pushing th boolit back into the case on recoil is of little concern but bumping it back on chambering or handling is. It might be easier and a lot cheaper to start a little large and size down, then different sizers could be ordered to get it right. Just some thoughts.

[Scharfschuetze]

If you do go with the larger boolit diameter and it won't chamber due to the neck diameter in the chamber, you can try reaming the brass necks. I prefer to take the brass of the outside for concentricity and control over how much I take off, but inside reaming should also get you there.