What should I do with this lead?

[F_L]

I am in the sailboat repair business and end up scrapping boats on occasion. I have always sold the lead keels at my local metal recycler. Am I crazy to think about melting and casting into ingots, start casting for my 9mm and 45 and selling the rest? I have a pretty good supply of junk boats coming through. Seems to me soft lead ingots are selling around $1/lb + shipping. That is about double what my yard is willing to pay. I would like to try casting, but don't know how to start. I currently have a 3000lb keel. Where do you start with a chunk of lead that big? Can an acetylene torch be used to melt it into small enough pieces to fit in a pot? Assuming I manage to cast some ingots, how do I know what kind of lead I've got. I think its mostly pure lead(dents easily with a hammer), but don't know enough about it.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Fred

[dbosman]

You're just teasing us? Right?
You're sitting on a grail.

A torch will work and the puddles can all be re-melted. A chainsaw will cut keels. The chips should be saved.

[Bullshop Junior]

Band saw works good.

[olereb]

If your in SW FL i'll come over and help you cut it up,i'll even buy a chainsaw.

[lwknight]

Get it hoisted up in the air with a crane and I can back my truck under it. Problem solved.

Seriously, for that kind of weight people will drive the distance if the price is right.
You can use the proceeds to buy tin and antimony for your casting alloy.

[pretzelxx]

You might as well get some gold spray paint. I would love to have a few hundred pound chunks!

[GlocksareGood]

Chainsaw off a small piece.
Test the hardness with a cabin tree tester.
Test it for zinc with HCl.
Post it for sale or trade on the forum
PROFIT

And if you are in VA I can help.

[F_L]

Lots of good replies, Thanks everyone. I will try the torch trick. I have used a chainsaw on lead and it kinda sucks. I am curious as to how long it will take to melt off 5 lbs or so. I will have some time in the next couple of days so will try it.
Here is the beast.
94765
I am going to have a lot of questions. Obviously need a hardness tester. Advice on a casting pot please.
Thanks,
Fred

[Relsom]

Typically keels are alloyed. If you can scratch it with you fingernail it is considered soft lead and close to pure. I'll jump on the bandwagon and put me down as interested in some, possible pickup. As for a lead pot use an old 20lb propane tank or I think you can buy one already made from someone on this forum.

[F_L]

Typically keels are alloyed. If you can scratch it with you fingernail it is considered soft lead and close to pure. I'll jump on the bandwagon and put me down as interested in some, possible pickup. As for a lead pot use an old 20lb propane tank or I think you can buy one already made from someone on this forum.
The old propane tank is a great idea and I have several. Is there a reliable way to install a spigot and make it bottom pour?

[Zymurgy50]

Go rent an electric jackhammer with a chisel bit........

[owejia]

I bought a keel balast that weighed 1683 lbs. I used a oxy/act torch to cut knotches in it so a chain would not slip off. Used a chain hoist to hang in the air, made a smelting pot out of 16in scrap pipe with a i/4 in plate welded on the bottom and four legs of angle iron, calculated the volume , would hold 500lbs of lead. Just used my cheap harbor freight weed burner to melt, propane cheaper than oxy/act, made ingot molds of 3in channel x 6 in long. These ingots weigh about 7 lbs and fit upright in my lee 20 lb pot. This balast tested sb 1.29 pb 98.29. This is how it worked for me.

[F_L]

I bought a keel balast that weighed 1683 lbs. I used a oxy/act torch to cut knotches in it so a chain would not slip off. Used a chain hoist to hang in the air, made a smelting pot out of 16in scrap pipe with a i/4 in plate welded on the bottom and four legs of angle iron, calculated the volume , would hold 500lbs of lead. Just used my cheap harbor freight weed burner to melt, propane cheaper than oxy/act, made ingot molds of 3in channel x 6 in long. These ingots weigh about 7 lbs and fit upright in my lee 20 lb pot. This balast tested sb 1.29 pb 98.29. This is how it worked for me.

Great info - Thanks!

I melted a piece of the keel and ended up with piece about 1 1/2" diameter. It is pretty soft, can be scratched with a finger nail. I have a buddy that will test it tomorrow.

Your 3" channel molds are a great idea. I found some 3" and enough other scrap to put together a 12" diameter smelting pot.

Thanks,
Fred

[Randy C]

Phoenix is a vender here, I have bought led from him if you make moulds you should make them and package it like he does It mails better and the post office don't beat them up as bad he does them the right size and weight for the free boxes from US mail, I bought some of his moulds I will measure and show a pic if he don't chime in but he might not be around right now. I don't think he dose it in the winter. It's my bed time.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

wow, you hit the mother load and dont know what to do with it :)
You got some good advice and you're sittin' on a pile 'o money if you cant use it all

[F_L]

wow, you hit the mother load and dont know what to do with it :)
You got some good advice and you're sittin' on a pile 'o money if you cant use it all
It is great advice and certainly appreciated. I just needed a little nudge to get this project going. I have handloaded for years, but never got into casting. This keel got me thinking about casting. But to a noob like me, turning a big chunk of lead into a bunch of little chunks is a bit daunting. With the advice I got here I am pointed in the right direction and ready to proceed.

[starmac]

I second the tip to build your ingot molds to just fit the flat rate mail boxes. if they fit right you can get enough weight in a small flat rate that it works out just as good to ship two of them instead of a medium, and the post master is happy too. Plus you gain the customers that want to buy a little at a time.

[FLHTC]

Sacrificial anodes are made of Zinc so it's highly unlikely the keel weight is anything but pure lead. I grew up on the Chesapeake and all the keels I ever heard of were pure lead. Goose and Duck decoy anchors were cast from old sailboat keels. You gotta gold/lead mine

[Randy C]

95033 95034

95035

Roughly 25lb in a box of led, one mould is a box. There is a art to doing it and getting a clean alloy, This is the way I order my led I bought several of these moulds for when I have time to do some of my own. I like a custom alloy it cost more.

[F_L]

95033 95034

95035

Roughly 25lb in a box of led, one mould is a box. There is a art to doing it and getting a clean alloy, This is the way I order my led I bought several of these moulds for when I have time to do some of my own. I like a custom alloy it cost more.
Sweet!
Nice looking molds and I have a lot of scrap channel iron. Both work and weather have delayed my smelting project. I did get a chance to start on the pot. It's an old 20lb propane cylinder with 1/4" plate bottom.
Thanks,
Fred

[el34]

You should at least be aware of the Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot for boolit casting, $63, as an option to making one from a tank. Many folks use this guy.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-90947

Sold by most distributors of reloading equipment.

[Wayne Smith]

My guess is that he was talking about making a bottom pour pot for volume casting ingots, not casting boolits. If you are, and have hoisting equipment, don't bother with a bottom pour. It will just be trouble. Make your pot with a pour lip and handles that balance it full. Grab the handles with lifting equipment, grab the pot with a hooked stick, and tilt pour into ingot molds. That's how they handle tons of fluid steel, after all.

[Randy C]

I paid 55$ for each mould with wood handles they are a work of art everything is cut square and all seems are tight I think this is what it takes to have moulds that release your led ingots with out having to beat on them, all the welding is on back side. I paid $2.20lb for 20 to 1 alloy.

[Randy C]

I use two Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot for boolit casting I have a 10lb pot also. They all work great for the price. one has a PID on it.

[jsizemore]

I got a smelting pot from the scrap yard that's the bottom 16" of a stainless beer keg. It was past it's last test date and somebody else had cut it with a torch. I've never tested it's max capacity but 300lbs is easy.

[F_L]

Update - I cut about 10lbs off the keel yesterday with an acetylene torch. It went better than expected and I think I can refine the technique and speed up the process. The biggest PIA with the torch method is the paint on the keel. It is nasty, smoky stuff. But using a fan and respirator makes it bearable. Here is the first cut.
95165
I appreciate the pot recommendations but have a bottom pour almost built following the steps here (castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?146065-New-bottom-pour-smelting-pot!).

[jonas302]

Maybe there is a member in Texas with some experience that you could get to help looks like a good two man job

[NewbieDave007]

I never would've thought that I would want a scrap sail boat. Nice.

[Randy C]

I think I would want to grind or buff off the paint before smelting, just thinking I'm sure it would burn off in the smelting process.

[lwknight]

The acetylene torch is an expensive way to go compared to a propane weed burner.
The weed burner is slower on the start but will pay back after you get things going.

[MaryB]

torch the boat and let it melt into a thinner sheet? Just kidding!

[DRNurse1]

Fred:

Be careful cutting that tank. I cut holes in the rim of mine to accommodate a bail which I can hang from an overhead tripod (made from rebar). It provides support in case the burner is out of balance.

[Toymaker]

Wish I were in TX, I'd come over to help you out. You want to cut a couple of 10# chunks off that keel I'll buy them. I don't need it smelted and cast into ingots.
I'll be following your thread to see how you're doing.

[tygar]

Chainsaw off a small piece.
Test the hardness with a cabin tree tester.
Test it for zinc with HCl.
Post it for sale or trade on the forum
PROFIT

And if you are in VA I can help.

Yep & I'm not far from Brent & will be glad to have some of that stick to the bed of my truck after we help.

[F_L]

Re: Scrapping sailboats
Be careful of any "free" sailboats. Not all of them have lead keels. The smaller trailerables (up to 22-23') as a general rule have cast iron retractable keels. There isn't enough salvage value to beak even on disposal. The larger boats usually have lead keels but I have been disappointed a couple of times to haul a boat and find cast iron. And even the bigger "free" boats cost me quite a bit to haul out on one of my sailboat trailers, drop the mast, strip the goodies, and haul to the dump. Sailboats can be a great source of lead if you are careful.

Re: Weed burner
I will get my hands on one. I have an acetylene torch so I had to try it. It works pretty well with the acetylene cut back to 8psi.

Re: Pot stability
Hot lead scares me and I will not cut any corners here. The burner is well built and with pot and my additional 200lbs, is very stable. Just for grins I am going to add legs to the pot. I have too much scrap steel laying around to skip a simple safety step.

Thanks,
Fred

[propwashp47]

thanks for the heads up on the free boats. I am glad I let them go before before I busted my hump only to find I had junk. it looks like it must be right time right place and right boat to work out . i all so think you are on the right track with the amount of weight you will be handling you will need a strong set up so there will be no problems or burns involved. good luck and give me a call if you need help. Don

[drinks]

An axe will do to get chunks off soft lead and not only does not burn fuel, but does burn some fat.
Anyone worried about cutting a propane cylinder, consider a refrigerant cylinder, they are not refilled and are usually free from an a/c shop.

[WILCO]

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Fred

Hi Fred!

Sell it off. Purchase a known alloy and enjoy life.

[F_L]

My first 10 lbs. No molds yet so use the bottom of the propane cylinder. Actually decided it would work great for my personal use.
95259
The bad news is if I figured in my hourly rate this lead is costing around $10/lb! I am sure I can speed it up as I figure out pot temps, fluxing, etc.

Fred

[WILCO]

The bad news is if I figured in my hourly rate this lead is costing around $10/lb!

See post #38............

[merlin101]

Be carefull useing an acetylene torch to cut lead, not only expensive but it may be vaporizeing the lead and then you really do have lead fumes! Try the propane and just melt and drip into a mold or pot. Wish you were around here, I'd make ya a heck've deal and you wouldn't have to lift a finger!

[Toymaker]

+1 with merlin101. Acetylene cutting will vaporize the lead and you don't want that.

I think you're wasting effort. Unless you just want to see what the process is and how it goes.

Take what you want and smelt it for your use. Cut the rest up into blocks and sell it to the two dozen lead hounds (me included) panting at your doorstep. (Maybe its three dozen by now).

[mikeym1a]

You mentioned 'my time'................Time is what you make of it. You could sell it, as suggested and buy a 'real' alloy. Or, you can process it as you want. I can get used lead locally. I do not figure my time into it, as my time is my own. I only figure the cost of my propane, and anything I had to buy to process the lead. Whether bought or recovered, you need the same tools to process the lead. My personal view is that cutting it with a chainsaw, and salvaging the chips, is the fastest way to cut it into managable sizes. The you can either process it, or advertise it for sale. Personally, I see it as 'found money'. If you get tired of the hassle, then just truck it to the salvage yard. If you could find an easy way to cut it into 25lb - 50lb chunks, you'd find a ready market here. Good luck, any way you choose. mikey

[DrBill33]

As of last evening, the spot pric of reclaimed lead was .70 per pound.

Hope that this helps

[F_L]

As of last evening, the spot pric of reclaimed lead was .70 per pound.

Hope that this helps
Thanks - My local yard offered me .45

I haven't had time to mess with the keel until today. Here is about 100 lbs I cut off in about 20 minutes.
95748
Those warning of lead fumes, thanks for your concern. I have plenty of ventilation and always wear a respirator. I think I am keeping the lead below its boiling point, but don't know for sure.

[Toymaker]

Haven't been able to check threads for a couple of days so I was impressed with the amount of lead you removed in only 20 minutes. I thought it would take longer. I was also glad to read you are taking precautions and using a respirator. That 10# chunk you melted in your "tank" pot looks nice and shiney, = clean. I get a little paranoid with some things because I was educated as a chemist and worked in labs for 10 years before moving up the administration ladder. Your project is interesting, so keep us posted on your progress.

[amosfella]

Those warning of lead fumes, thanks for your concern. I have plenty of ventilation and always wear a respirator. I think I am keeping the lead below its boiling point, but don't know for sure.

Lead boils around 1700C. You should be fine.

[David2011]

F L,

Having owned a number of sailboats and done my own maintenance, I would be FAR more concerned about the bottom paint than lead vapors. The toxins in copper based antifouling paint are very nasty as is the binder when heated.

For people now searching for keels, be aware that Catalina Yachts uses cast iron on keels for boats much larger than 22 feet. It would be a bad day to haul a 4000 lb find home only to find out later that it wasn't lead.

Just curious, most scrapped sailboats I've been around were the result of hurricanes. Are these boats damaged or abandoned?

David

[David2011]

Lead boils around 1700C. You should be fine.

But it produces toxic vapors around 1100 degrees Farenheit. The bottom paint is dangerous at much lower temperatures.

David

[F_L]

Work is still getting in the way of the lead project, but I have made some progress. I finished the bottom pour pot following the directions here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?146065-New-bottom-pour-smelting-pot!). I have to say the simple design of the valve works great. No drips and good control over the lead flow. I followed Randy C's advise and built a mold to fit the small flat rate box.
96393
Please excuse the rough look of the mold. If I decide to go this way I will clean it up and put on some handles. With this mold it is 4 ingots to a box. I don't have a scale at the shop but will weigh it at home. My goal is 30 lbs but I don't know how realistic that is. The mold is beveled on one side only to minimize the empty space in the box.

David - Bottom paint is nasty stuff if you are sanding or burning it. This morning I was sanding bottom paint off a boat. This afternoon I was burning it off chunks of lead in the smelting pot. I have both regular and forced air respirators. I started doing bottom jobs years ago using the cheap paper masks and decided I didn't want to die that way.
The boats I scrap are usually older boats where the repairs exceed their value. Most of the time the owner is paying an expensive slip fee. They can't sell it, and don't have a trailer to haul it.

Thanks,
Fred

[propwashp47]

great job fred on getting the bottom pour pot finished. I think it will save much time for you with the amount of lead you will be melting , and after the hard work in getting it cut up. keep letting us know how it is coming

[F_L]

Success!
96479
This box-o-lead weighed 30 lbs on my cheap scale at home. Now I need to refine my smelting technique so I can duplicate it. I think it took about 20 tries to get 4 ingots that were consistent in size.
Fred

[Toymaker]

Congrats!!! I'm trying to figure what you mean by "consistent in size" and possible reasons. They're not going to be pretty and uniform like bullets, but many of the same principles of casting apply. It takes a little while for that bottom pour spout to get hot enough to get a good flow. I like my lead a little hotter than bullet casting temperatures when I'm casting ingots. ETC. I don't much care what my ingots weigh as long as I know the weight. When I make ingots I cast a bullet or plug from the mix so I can test the BHN. I use a Saeco tester. Then I scratch the date, BHN, weight and, if known, alloy ingredients on each ingot.

[meeesterpaul]

some refrigerants are a version of propane

[F_L]

Congrats!!! I'm trying to figure what you mean by "consistent in size" and possible reasons. They're not going to be pretty and uniform like bullets, but many of the same principles of casting apply. It takes a little while for that bottom pour spout to get hot enough to get a good flow. I like my lead a little hotter than bullet casting temperatures when I'm casting ingots. ETC. I don't much care what my ingots weigh as long as I know the weight. When I make ingots I cast a bullet or plug from the mix so I can test the BHN. I use a Saeco tester. Then I scratch the date, BHN, weight and, if known, alloy ingredients on each ingot.

I appreciate your comments. I am trying to find a way to market the extra lead. 30 lbs fits perfectly in the small boxes. Just a bit of lead under or over filled makes a substantial difference. I am getting better at it.

I did borrow a Saeco tester. I don't have any bullet molds yet so I poured some lead into a few .45 cases. They tested 6-7 bhn. At least now I have an idea of what I have.

Thanks,
Fred

[Toymaker]

Marketing - is it against the rules to post a "Lead for Sale" message? Any of the selling web sites take a cut. Post notes at local ranges. My bro-in-law shoots Cowboy Action down that way. I'd certainly take advantage of the opportunity. With the Saeco tester that indicates a really good lead. As it ages a little it will harden to about BHN 8 which is the usual hardness for pure lead. Perfect for my muzzle loaders and great for making my own alloys. Fantastic job. It's been fun following the thread.

[F_L]

Marketing - is it against the rules to post a "Lead for Sale" message?

The Swappin and Selling section of this forum is just for that. I need to get to 25 posts first (per the rules) but intend to post the lead there for sale. 25 posts will be easy as I have't yet started posting questions on preferred alloys, molds, lube, etc. for my own bullet casting. I will post some questions in the appropriate section when I am ready to proceed. Unfortunately my real job has gotten busy and slowed down my lead project.

I did sell 30 lbs on Ebay just to test the water. It sold quickly at $1/lb + shipping. But I hate Ebay and Paypal with a passion. Even though I have used Paypal for years for my company credit card processing, ran over $4500 through Paypal last month, never had a charge back or complaint, they are holding the funds of the lead auction because I don't have an "established seller rating". I would dump Paypal in a heart beat, but haven't found a viable alternative yet.

[F_L]

I got a few hours to work on my lead project.
97329
These 2 pieces along with another piece and all the drippings weighed in at 310 lbs. It took about 2 1/2 hrs. That's longer than i expected but I think I can speed it up as I refine the technique. I also want to experiment with a chainsaw and weed burner. My plan is to have the keel off the boat and cut up into ~100 lbs chunks by this weekend .

Fred

[NewbieDave007]

That is a lot of time and work, but I would love to be in your shoes with all that lead. Good luck.

[Toymaker]

Curious. I know the weed burner and chain saw were suggested, but ....... will a weed burner really get hot enough? Careful of the fumes from the paint.

Will a chain saw really work? I'm seeing lead chunks and dust (it makes wood dust and chunks, right? = Spock logic) Also, lead getting in the couplings between the links. What happens when a link, or links, jam? Then there's lead collecting on the sprocket. What ever happens the chain saw is going to be toast.

Wouldn't a saw-saw with a really coarse tooth blade be better? Lube the blade with spray Teflon, like TriFlo (for bike chains) or one of these products to make drawers slide easier. There's even some pure silicone sprays.

You going to set up the video camera to document the process for future generations? :o)

[F_L]

Curious. I know the weed burner and chain saw were suggested, but ....... will a weed burner really get hot enough? Careful of the fumes from the paint.

Will a chain saw really work? I'm seeing lead chunks and dust (it makes wood dust and chunks, right? = Spock logic) Also, lead getting in the couplings between the links. What happens when a link, or links, jam? Then there's lead collecting on the sprocket. What ever happens the chain saw is going to be toast.

Wouldn't a saw-saw with a really coarse tooth blade be better? Lube the blade with spray Teflon, like TriFlo (for bike chains) or one of these products to make drawers slide easier. There's even some pure silicone sprays.

You going to set up the video camera to document the process for future generations? :o)
I am sure a weed burner will get plenty hot. The small propane torches will melt lead. But it is one drop at a time.

I have resisted trying the chainsaw because: 1) A chainsaw sucks bad enough when it is just throwing wood chips at you 2) I didn't want to trash my 30+ year old chain saw. I did find an electric chainsaw I haven't used in years. I am happy to donate it to the cause.

The acetylene torch works pretty well on the vertical cuts. But on horizontal cuts the molten lead has no where to go.

I tried a saws-all. But it beats you to death and gets stuck when the blade get hot. It works ok on smaller pieces but this keel is ~6" thick in the center.

I now have some room in the work shed so I can hoist the boat off the trailer. That should speed things up since I can get comfortable and not be tripping over axles and cross members. Here is where I am at now with about 500 lbs cut off.
97398

[propwashp47]

Fred you can use a circle saw with the blade in backwards to make a long horizontal cut with the guide edge up next to the bottom of the boat ,set a 1 in cut depth ,make your cut all the way across , cut the other side the same. second cut set your cut depth for 1.5 in go slow and find the steel vertical rods. they look like 6 in apart ,cut them with saws-all or torch .wrap a chain around the lead and use a come along to pre set a force to direct the direction of the fall of the the lead . I wood have someone with you to help guide the lead when it starts to go with a guide rope or chain. as the weight will be most unforgiving once it is on the move. I think there is too much risk to try this on your own. use the chain to move the lead out of the way with a truck .let the boat down on the trailer and move it out of the way. you will have a much a easier time cutting with one end propped up and cutting from above with any tool you want to use. I hope this help you with this project Donald. ps you have my # in your pm if you need some help

[sidecarmike]

97434We used to use cupcake pans for ingots. Fill them about half full. I still use a couple cast iron cornbread pans I picked up at Goodwill Industries in addition to my ingot pans. Each stick on mine is 2.5 pounds.

[F_L]

Fred you can use a circle saw with the blade in backwards to make a long horizontal cut with the guide edge up next to the bottom of the boat ,set a 1 in cut depth ,make your cut all the way across , cut the other side the same. second cut set your cut depth for 1.5 in go slow and find the steel vertical rods. they look like 6 in apart ,cut them with saws-all or torch .wrap a chain around the lead and use a come along to pre set a force to direct the direction of the fall of the the lead . I wood have someone with you to help guide the lead when it starts to go with a guide rope or chain. as the weight will be most unforgiving once it is on the move. I think there is too much risk to try this on your own. use the chain to move the lead out of the way with a truck .let the boat down on the trailer and move it out of the way. you will have a much a easier time cutting with one end propped up and cutting from above with any tool you want to use. I hope this help you with this project Donald. ps you have my # in your pm if you need some help

Thanks Donald,
I just found your pm. My weekends stay pretty much booked up. I intended to cut up the keel last weekend. I didn't get a chance as customers kept getting in the way. I did fire up the pot and smelt some of the lead.
97768
I also realized I have been working to hard to cut the lead into smaller pieces. An engine hoist worked great to get the biggest chunk (120 lbs) into the pot. I feel stupid spending the time to cut it into 25-30 lbs chunks when I have plenty of lifting equipment here.

Hopefully I can resume the keel cutting in a couple of days.

Fred

[hickfu]

How thick is that keel? I had a huge chunk of Lead I wanted to cut so my BIL takes out his skill saw with a special metal cutting blade and zipped right through it.... He put a box behind it as the shavings went spraying backwards.



Doc

[F_L]

How thick is that keel? I had a huge chunk of Lead I wanted to cut so my BIL takes out his skill saw with a special metal cutting blade and zipped right through it.... He put a box behind it as the shavings went spraying backwards.



Doc
The keel is 6-7" at its thickest. I did experiment with a chainsaw today. Even though the blade needed sharpening, it cut pretty damn well. I was pleasantly surprised. It does throw a lot of lead at you. Don't try this in your backyard unless you want to be a super fund clean up site someday. It scattered lead chips about 25' away on my slab. The chainsaw is favorite lead cutting method so far.
Fred

[Mechanicalmayham]

You could use cardboard or plastic sheeting to contain the mess of the saw and reclaim the large amount of lead being shaved off.

a youtube vid for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5oz9IJ_5O0

[F_L]

You could use cardboard or plastic sheeting to contain the mess of the saw and reclaim the large amount of lead being shaved off.

a youtube vid for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5oz9IJ_5O0

Nice find! If I had seen that video I wouldn't have hesitated to use a chainsaw. His saw cuts faster than mine. I guess I need to put an edge on the blade.
Thanks,
Fred

[propwashp47]

good deal Fred I am glade the chainsaw worked well for you. we learn best by doing. it seams every time I try to plan something- life just happens. love your scale ,what's its max wt.? and brand? that's a nice pile of lead ingots on your scale. when you start casting and loading for your 9 mm I think you my find some leading with the soft sailboat lead, your 45 will probably be fine.no big deal scrub it out and gets some wheel weights and some tin and you can harden up some of your lead and it will shoot well in both

[F_L]

good deal Fred I am glade the chainsaw worked well for you. we learn best by doing. it seams every time I try to plan something- life just happens. love your scale ,what's its max wt.? and brand? that's a nice pile of lead ingots on your scale. when you start casting and loading for your 9 mm I think you my find some leading with the soft sailboat lead, your 45 will probably be fine.no big deal scrub it out and gets some wheel weights and some tin and you can harden up some of your lead and it will shoot well in both
I found that scale on Amazon. It was cheap (~$40) and had good reviews. Max weight is 330 lbs. I am sure you can buy a better one but I am happy with it. I have some wheel weights I can add for the 9mm. I need to keep searching. There is a tire shop close that has 300 lbs. I am trying to work a deal on it but he is proud of them.

[mold maker]

All the tire shops have discovered a profit from their otherwise trash. Many have decided to listen to the PC crowd, and refuse to sell, or give lead, to unlicenced recyclers.
Lead WWs are a dying breed, and soon there will be only FE and zinc.+

[Sensai]

It is nasty, smoky stuff. But using a fan and respirator makes it bearable.

I was just going to mention that you should be careful with an oxy-acetylene torch for melting the lead. The stuff that we use for melting smaller quantities will not get hot enough to worry about the lead vaporizing, but an O/A torch can. The ventilation and respirator aren't a bad idea even without the smell. Sounds like you have a handle on things, though. Best wishes

[F_L]

I was just going to mention that you should be careful with an oxy-acetylene torch for melting the lead. The stuff that we use for melting smaller quantities will not get hot enough to worry about the lead vaporizing, but an O/A torch can. The ventilation and respirator aren't a bad idea even without the smell. Sounds like you have a handle on things, though. Best wishes

The first reply to this thread recommended a chainsaw to cut lead. I started with the torch since that is what I had. Tried the chainsaw when I found a *** I haven't used in years. Since trying the chainsaw I won't be using the torch much. The torch worked OK but the chainsaw is faster and cheaper to operate. Hell, you can buy a cheap electric chainsaw for about the same as a bottle of acetylene.
Great info on this board.
Fred

[Toymaker]

Wow. You used the electric chain saw you mentioned before? Good information, because that would have been my last choice. But I think I'll also take the other advise and spread a plastic tarp. Mostly I wind up with sheet lead which I can use metal shears on. If I get plumbers ingots I use a brick chisel and sledge hammer. Once a guy showed up at a shoot with a BIG block of lead and cut chunks off to sell using a hacksaw. He spent more time cutting than shooting. You've come up with all kinds of interesting and good info in this thread.

[lwknight]

The weed burner will totally get hot enough. It starts off slow then gets faster as the bulk of the lead heats up. You can get a steady stream pouring off any large lead object. My weed burner is direct drive with no regulator and I cant guess the btu but its a lot bore than a known 200k burner.

[F_L]

Wow. You used the electric chain saw you mentioned before? Good information, because that would have been my last choice. But I think I'll also take the other advise and spread a plastic tarp. Mostly I wind up with sheet lead which I can use metal shears on. If I get plumbers ingots I use a brick chisel and sledge hammer. Once a guy showed up at a shoot with a BIG block of lead and cut chunks off to sell using a hacksaw. He spent more time cutting than shooting. You've come up with all kinds of interesting and good info in this thread.

Yes, it was cheap electric chainsaw with a dull blade. It still cut pretty well. I am going to touch up the blade and resume cutting in a couple of days.

I wanted to try the weed burner except my local Tractor Supply was out.

Fred

[phaessler]

The keel is 6-7" at its thickest. I did experiment with a chainsaw today. Even though the blade needed sharpening, it cut pretty damn well. I was pleasantly surprised. It does throw a lot of lead at you. Don't try this in your backyard unless you want to be a super fund clean up site someday. It scattered lead chips about 25' away on my slab. The chainsaw is favorite lead cutting method so far.
Fred

I don't mean to laugh, but I chuckled reading this. Mostly cause I realize where one resides dictates his freedoms right to the simplests tasks.
Good Job Fred!!! And yes I am watching and waiting the For Sale threads too ;)

Pete

[F_L]

I don't mean to laugh, but I chuckled reading this. Mostly cause I realize where one resides dictates his freedoms right to the simplests tasks.
Good Job Fred!!! And yes I am watching and waiting the For Sale threads too ;)

Pete

Thanks Pete,
This has been a fun thread and fun project. I hit 25 posts last night and now get to post in the classified section. Here is what I will be posting this morning.
98019
My lead project will be delayed a few days as I tend to my real job.

Thanks,
Fred

[propwashp47]

Fred harbor freight in austin has the weed burners. I AM GLAND TO HERE YOU HAVE GOT TO THE POINT OF SELLING SOME OF YOUR LEAD. Donald

[mikeym1a]

As this is mostly pure lead, it could stand hardening for your pistols. As mentioned, you could add WW's to the mix, however, it might be easier to get some bulk tin and some 'superhard' from Rotometals. Everyone says you need up to 2% tin by volume to aid in fill out, and it slightly hardens the lead. The 'superhard' is 70% lead and 30% antimony. From what I've read, you want 94%lead, 4%antimony, 2%tin. Hope this helps. mikey

[sprinkintime]

FL if you know somebody with a beam cutter that is a 14" circular saw, I think that would do it.
Sprink

[F_L]

Wow! I sold all 210 lbs in about 30 min in the classified here. That exceeded my expectations. Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread.

Fred

[1989toddm]

I am in Washington so I dont plan on stealing any keels from you but I am curious. If you would care to share, where would I go to find a keel filled with lead? I have been wondering this for awhile now, thought I might as well ask.

[F_L]

Most marinas have a few derelict boats they would like to see gone. Unfortunately these "free" boats won't have a trailer. If it had a trailer it most likely would have all ready been hauled off. Or if it has a trailer is most likely won't be free. I have several sailboat trailers so I am in a position to jump on the junk boats. I have never actively searched for the junk boats. The owners find me because they want to get their boats out of the water and quit paying expensive slip fees.Not all keels are lead. Take a magnet with you if you pursue any keels. Craigslist has junk boats some time.
Fred

[F_L]

Keel Update - I got a chance last weekend to attack the keel. I had room in the boat shed to hoist the boat off the trailer. I unbolted the keel and let it fall.
98748
The chainsaw worked very well. After a couple of hours I had about 1000 lbs cut off.
98747
The lead is selling well in the Swappin&Sellin section of this forum. I have sold about 700 lbs so far and I am still getting requests for more. The lead sales have funded a couple of 6 cavity molds and a Lyman Lubesizer with dies, top punches for .45 and 9mm. So I am making a little money and starting a new hobby.
Thanks everyone for the great advice.
Fred

[sirsloop]

This is my smelting setup... old school 20# tall propane tank with the old valve, knocked off the top, cut a removable ring so I can load up a lot of scrap like roofing material and have it melt down. Then remove the ring so I can access it with my ladle. I drilled some holes in the side and bolted on some heavy duty all thread as handles. Works great and easily holds 100#.

http://tmp.smugmug.com/photos/i-P7DrZbh/1/XL/i-P7DrZbh-XL.jpg

[CLAYPOOL]

Their all lying to you. I will come down and get that out of there before the government finds out you have found gold (Lead). Those folks in Calf. will end up getting those gold coins took from them sure as shooting.

[Randy C]

How's the led business are you sold out.

[dikman]

Sirsloop, that's a neat idea - a removable ring extension to raise the height of the pot so that more loose stuff can be stacked in. :Bright idea:

[propwashp47]

wow Fred you have really brought this project full circle and brought home the bacon to boot. and wrote the book on how to do keel lead recovery. I have slowed down on lead recovery and will be trying to get a summers worth of boolit casting done be for the heat sets in. tomorrow I am picking up a Winchester high wall in 45-70 and cant Wait to cast and load for it, I sure hope I can get some sleep to night. I am sure you are just itching to try out all your new equipment and send some of that lead down range. great job Fred. donald

[F_L]

I have shipped 1000 lbs of the lead, have about 2000 lbs left. Last week was an annual road trip to Florida, this week is playing catch-up at work. I REALLY want to fire up the pot and start casting for my own pistols but it will have to wait another week or so. I am itching to try out all my new casting toys. Damn work keeps getting in the way!

Randy C's advice on molds to fit the box was spot on. Every one got their lead and comments were great on packaging. One box was "lost", but showed up about 2 weeks after ship date. Another box was damaged but the strapping tape kept the ingots intact.

Toymaker did me the favor of analyzing the lead in a chem lab. He reported a BHN of 7, antimony 1%, tin 2%, and a "trace reaction to ferro-compounds". It's nice to know what I've got. I owe him some free lead when I resume the smelting project.

It has been a lot of fun.
Thanks Everyone,
Fred

[Toymaker]

We had one really nice day before it got cold again so I decided to recast your ingots to a size more suitable to my casting pot. I'd picked up a cast iron camp pot to use and I'd built a stand to support it over the Coleman camp stove I use. I only had time to do a little, but something is better than nothing. Used a cast iron corn cob cornbread pan as a mold since the ingot is then just perfect for my pots. I spent an hour or two at it and it worked great. Then I went to turn off the burner and found that the heat had melted the knob. Managed to get it turned off with a handy screwdriver, then I just had to sit there and laugh. I'd been checking the little propane tank to make sure it wasn't getting too warm but never thought of the control knob. Ah, the misadventures we learn from.

[Randy C]

We had one really nice day before it got cold again so I decided to recast your ingots to a size more suitable to my casting pot.
My mould is 3 wide to a box, They fit in all casting pots by standing them up and slide them in as needed. I'm glad he fit them so they would ship easily, The post office is hard on heavy boxes.