Sizing Lee tumble lube bullets?

[Smithy]

I just got through reading the sticky about tumble lubing bullets and there the bullets were lubed as cast, then sized, the lubed once again and stored or loaded. My question is this: Doesn't Lee's tumble bullets have a staggered range of diameters with the largest at the leading edge? If so, what is happening when the bullets get sized? Wouldn't that eliminate the design of the staggered Lee diameter set up? Or have you found that a consistent diameter for the whole bullet is better overall? Just curious as I'm looking at the 158 and 240 grained semi-wadcutter bullets for 38 and 44 mag respectively. Smithy.

[Airman Basic]

My suggestion is to get the standard lube groove boolits. You can still TL them, but they also do well in the lube-sizer. Works for me, anyway.

[mikeym1a]

For my .45, and my .32, I cast, tumbled, loaded and shot. I only had to size for one gun, which had very tight chambers. It all depends on what you are shooting. Good luck!

[Smithy]

Thanks to both of you so far! I did think that it was Lee's idea for a quick and dirty easy loading set up. Ie. cast, squirt some lube, and load saving untold numbers of steps that way. For my Cowboy bullets I had the mold to produce the proper weight, but it was made for modern lubes, not black powder lubes. So I'd cast a bunch and size them a thousandth or two under size, then I'd run them through the Corbin HC-2 which imparts a diamond pattern across the entire bearing surface and holds a lot of lube. It also increases the bullet diameter so I'd need to then size to my final loading diameter. Six separate steps to produce a loadable bullet? Why if it can be done in only two? Smithy.

[jmort]

I am a minority lover of TL Boolits. Why not cast a few/lot of Boolits and try a few unsized with alox or 45-45-10 and see what happens. Many users do just that and very happy with results. Big fan of all the Ranch Dog TL designs. I have the 158 grain TL SWC and really like it. The 158 grain RF non-TL is a winner as well.

[mac60]

I am a minority lover of TL Boolits. Why not cast a few/lot of Boolits and try a few unsized with alox or 45-45-10 and see what happens. Many users do just that and very happy with results. Big fan of all the Ranch Dog TL designs. I have the 158 grain TL SWC and really like it. The 158 grain RF non-TL is a winner as well.

I'm one of the minority too. I have tl moulds in .31, .38, .44 & .45 cal. I cast 'em, tl with straight lla, load 'em and shoot 'em. I agree with Smithy, in that I think Lee's intent with the tl design was to eliminate some of the drama associated with shooting cast bullets - er, um, I mean boolits...

[Elkins45]

Every gun and mold is an individual. I size only if I find it necessary. My S&W model 29 just loves the 240 grain .430 TL as it drops straight from the mold. The only time I size a TL boolet is if it makes the case too fat to chamber. I used to own a Taurus 92 and shoot the 124 TL RN in it. That gun needed them sized to .356 or the cases swelled too much to reliably chamber.

Do what works for you, your mold and your gun.

[Larry Gibson]

My question is this: Doesn't Lee's tumble bullets have a staggered range of diameters with the largest at the leading edge?

Only on R.E.A.L. bullets and a couple other MLing bullets. The standard TL bullets for CF cartridges are meant to be sized. While you can just TL the bullets and shoot them I've found accuracy is better when they are appropriately sized. Variation of diameter entering the throat (rifle and revolver) can have an effect on accuracy. If of even slightly different diameter they are not consistent in obturation to fit the throat and barrel. That alters the time pressure curve which can affect accuracy. Of course one must have a firearm capable of discerning the difference and the marksmanship ability to make note of the difference. Not saying the OP doesn't have either, just making note of the possible difference. I size all my TL bullets for uniformity but have shot a lot "as cast" especially with oversized revolver throats.

Larry Gibson

[Smithy]

Thanks Larry for the info. That was what I had going through my head was that they had the different range of diameters, but if as you say, then sizing would be the answer. Now in that department, Lee tossed another item into the mix making me even more confused. Usually I try to have a sizing die just a thousandth under the as cast diameter. Too much more and you'll start altering the flight characteristics of the bullet, and I've even seen an improper mold being selected thinking that the sizing die was the key to their success (like taking a 357 bullet down to 9mm and such). Too much and you end up with no lube grooves remaining.

Well I just got some goodies from Midway and a Lee sizer die was one of them so what the heck, I'll read the instructions. Now only taking a thousandth as mentioned above I'd just grab a bucket full of as cast bullets and run them through the sizer first, then pan lube them and load. I do this to keep the lube mess down to a minimum and I'll usually make my own pan lube cookie cutter so I don't have that much lube to worry about. Lee however, says to squirt the LLA in the bullet bowl and stir around until fully coated and then spread them out on a wax papered cookie sheet. Only after lubing do they suggest that you pass them through the sizing die? So you've dipped you bullets in LLA and waited 24 hours to size them and then Lee says that you need to LLA lube them again and wait another 24 hours of drying time before loading. Wow, 48 hours of wait from cast to load. I personally do not see one of those Lee sizing dies wearing out from unlubed bullets being run through it do you folks? Smithy.

[Elkins45]

They don't recommend you lube them first because of wear concerns. They say you're supposed to do it to prevent leading of the sizer. I think that is a remote possibility unless you happen to end up with a die that's not very well polished inside, since it has been well established that leading in the bore isn't caused by mechanical abrasion.

When I size with the push thru sizer I don't always wait for them to dry before I shove them thru, but I do always put at least a splash of lube on them just because it reduces the effort when doing hundreds at one sitting.

[N4AUD]

I do exactly the same thing. I've slugged my guns, so I cast, tumble, load and shoot.

[Airman Basic]

Some of us just give the unlubed boolits a squirt of whatever light oil is handy, usually WD40. After sizing do the LLA thing, or even better, 45-45-10.

[Smithy]

Sorry but one more time for the components of 45-45-10? Because that sounds like what I want to do with my loadings. Smithy.

[williamwaco]

I use the TL bullets in 9mm .38/.357 and .44
I use several thousand each year.
I size every one.
If I don't I find that 5 to 10 percent are too fat to chamber and must be pulled.

[tnpaw]

I just shot some Lee 102 g lead, .357 dia., TL with LLA , not sized, with 2.8g's of Bullseye, in my Sig .380 to see how they run. And they ran and shot like a dream! Just took apart and examined the inside of barrel, it was nice and shiney, with nary a bit of Leading. Happy I was! Going to make up some 45-45-10, when it gets warm enough to cook off some JPW and try it! Now if I could get that Darn .44magnum RedHawk to do the same I would be a Happy Man!

[Airman Basic]

Sorry but one more time for the components of 45-45-10? Because that sounds like what I want to do with my loadings. Smithy.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free

[Larry Gibson]

smithy

I personally do not see one of those Lee sizing dies wearing out from unlubed bullets being run through it do you folks?

As mentioned it is not a concern about wearing out the die but of leading the die and one other important reason. The lube in the grooves does not compress and it keeps the grooves from being swaged (wiped) away. With very soft alloys it also allows a lot less friction so there is less distortion of the bullet from forcing it through the sizer.

Even with WQ'd bullets I wait 24 - 48 hours before loading. With AC'd bullets I wait 7 - 10 days for the proper age hardening to occur before loading. Thus the drying time is basically inconsequential. Patience can be a virtue. Done correctly and allowing sufficient drying time can give some very good LLA lubed bullets. Most find LLA lubed bullets "messy" because they over lube or don't wait for the lube to properly dry. Just depends on what results you want. A Lyman or RCBS lubrasizier can solve the problem also.

Larry Gibson

[williamwaco]

smithy

I personally do not see one of those Lee sizing dies wearing out from unlubed bullets being run through it do you folks?

As mentioned it is not a concern about wearing out the die but of leading the die and one other important reason. The lube in the grooves does not compress and it keeps the grooves from being swaged (wiped) away. With very soft alloys it also allows a lot less friction so there is less distortion of the bullet from forcing it through the sizer.

Even with WQ'd bullets I wait 24 - 48 hours before loading. With AC'd bullets I wait 7 - 10 days for the proper age hardening to occur before loading. Thus the drying time is basically inconsequential. Patience can be a virtue. Done correctly and allowing sufficient drying time can give some very good LLA lubed bullets. Most find LLA lubed bullets "messy" because they over lube or don't wait for the lube to properly dry. Just depends on what results you want. A Lyman or RCBS lubrasizier can solve the problem also.

Larry Gibson


I have personally sized upward of 50,000 .38/9mm dies through my Lee push through .357 die.
I do NOT lube them in any way before sizing. That die has not changed dimensions by .0001 and shows no sign of any leading.

( I do not find it easier to size them if I lube them first. I have tried it and if you do lube them first, you MUST lube them again after sizing.)

[petroid]

I'm new at casting but my experience has been that a small percentage of boolits may pass visual inspection but after sizing I notice that they did not contact the die around their entire circumference indicating that they are slightly undersized and should be culled. Again I am somewhat inexperienced so my casting technique may be at fault but inspecting my sized boolits has eliminated leading problems for me.