Marlin 336 30-30 Lee Casting and Microgroove?

[davidheart]

I have a Marlin 336w which shoots 30-30 very well. I have yet to cast bullets for it but I'd really like to because I found out I'd be able to create a plinking load, varmint load, and deer load with cast bullets. Also, I like the do it yourself feeling.

I thought it would be easy/cheaper to get into cast with the Lee line of molds... but after reading a lot about the Microgroove in the 336 I'm now confused if I should use .309 or .311 diameter bullets. Lee only offers .309 and Lyman molds are over $70 each... which is a stretch for me at the moment. Especially for somebody just trying to learn and get into it.... plus furnace, plus lead, plus lube, plus xyz...

Anybody use the Lee .309 113, 150, or 170 molds in their Marlin 336? Any problems? I'd want the 113 for plinking/varmint and the 150 or 170 for hunting.

Thanks for any help you could offer! :grin:

[jonas302]

To answer your question you should slug your bore and find what she measures I run .310 in mine

[Bored1]

My first guess is you should slug the barrel to see what it measures. But that's just a guess, I'm sure more will be around shortly.

Looks like Jonas hit enter first!

[Bzcraig]

Yup, slug it! My is .3083 so 309 is great.

[Pb2au]

My marlin slugs at .308" for example. I use the lee 309 170 mold. It does drop at .310 on the nose. I lube and size to 309 and achieve fine accuracy.
Bullet size is very important, so slugging will be important to do. Also deciding what alloy you will use. But the other side of equation is going to be you powder selection and amount. I'm having excellent results with that bullet and 2400 powder. I had almost as good results with H335.
So eventually you will just have to jump and burn some powder.

[davidheart]

So what you're saying is every rifle is different even though it's the "same rifle"? I'll have to look into slugging it then... Just need to figure out how.

Edit: Why don't people who shoot jacketed bullets need to slug their rifle?

[M Hicks]

So what you're saying is every rifle is different even though it's the "same rifle"?

Very different. I am sure that I have used loads the same as someone else has and had close to the same results and the opposite is probably applicable.

I use a NOE 311041 sized to .311" in my 336.

[davidheart]

Alright so I've read up on slugging and I remember doing this. I did something similar to size the bore of my 9mm match pistol. The only lead bullets I have on hand are of .356 and .357 flavor. I also have jacketed SP 30-30 bullets. Should I use one of these or go to the store and find a lead weight? And if I'm looking for a fishing weight... what size?

Thanks for the input. I'm excited to figure out what size I have so there's a direction I could go in on molds.

[M Hicks]

Here are a few things you might find interesting.

http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158805-Just-a-few-tips-for-new-rifle-casters

[M Hicks]

You would have a fun time getting the .356 and .357 in there. If you go the fishing weight route, I have used the egg sinkers before. Use one that is about .311 or .312 if you can. It will make the job much easier. When you get it out make sure that you can tell the entire surface was swaged down by either the grooves or lands. If you have spots that were missed for some reason you need a bigger sinker.

[retiredPO]

And if your like me (dont be).. you end up at the gunsmith to get the lead out.... Mine was shooting horrible with 308 and 309...
gunsmith saved the slug and it measured 309.5... so I cast to 311 and size to 310.... bingo... the result was well worth the effort.
accuracy with a cast bullet makes you (or at least me) feel soooooo accomplished...

[frkelly74]

Another approach is to see what is the largest sized boolit that fits easily into a fired case. It is trial and error but eliminates the risk of getting a slug stuck in the bore. You will need some sample boolits that are sized at differing sizes to check for fit. I would start out with .311 and work down if necessary. I have pretty much settled on .311 for most of my 30 cal bore rifles. The one thing I use as a rule of thumb is this. Use the largest sized boolit that will still chamber easily in a given chamber. If it chambers easily it will most likely shoot safely, assuming that you have used a safe charge of an appropriate powder. Get a Lyman Cast Bullet loading manual and read it. It may answer a lot of your start up questions.

[btroj]

Never slugged mine, I just went with 311 and they worked so I never tried anything else.

[imashooter2]

My 30AS slugs at .308 and I get best results with Lee C309-150-F sized to .311. Boolit's drop from my mold at .312.

There are several posts on this board describing different methods for opening up Lee sizers. A search should turn them up for you.

[davidheart]

I really appreciate all the replies. I'll probably go to walmart today to find a lead fishing weight to slug the bore with. I checked the ones I have and they measured either .326+ or .247ish, but nothing close to .311

That's what I thought about the .356 bullets. Way too big....


My 30AS slugs at .308 and I get best results with Lee C309-150-F sized to .311. Boolit's drop from my mold at .312.

This post stopped me. Please clarify this for me. The Lee molds drop at .312? Do you know if all of them do this or yours was loose or something? I thought the molds were for .309 diameter (which is what the descriptions for them say). In which case at least I know I could still count on purchasing a Lee mold (still slug so I know what sizer die I need).

Thanks for the clarifications!

[scattershot]

If you're still looking for sizing dies, Google Lyman sizing die/Amazon. I just ordered a .310 from them, and they seem to have all the sizes in stock.

"Why don't people who shoot jacketed bullets need to slug their rifle? " Because jacketed bullets grip the rifling better, and don't have a tendency to jump the lands like cast boolits.

[fouronesix]

I really appreciate all the replies. I'll probably go to walmart today to find a lead fishing weight to slug the bore with. I checked the ones I have and they measured either .326+ or .247ish, but nothing close to .311


You can save yourself some time. Just take a soft lead bullet or any large sinker you have and pound lightly on both ends with a hammer. It will expand to whatever diameter you need to produce a good slug. Make two slugs, lube the bore and tap them through. Measure and compare. No need to make it harder or more complicated than it is.

[imashooter2]

I really appreciate all the replies. I'll probably go to walmart today to find a lead fishing weight to slug the bore with. I checked the ones I have and they measured either .326+ or .247ish, but nothing close to .311

That's what I thought about the .356 bullets. Way too big....



This post stopped me. Please clarify this for me. The Lee molds drop at .312? Do you know if all of them do this or yours was loose or something? I thought the molds were for .309 diameter (which is what the descriptions for them say). In which case at least I know I could still count on purchasing a Lee mold (still slug so I know what sizer die I need).

Thanks for the clarifications!

MY Lee mould in MY alloy drops at .312. Your mold and alloy might be a little smaller or a little larger.

I would have no issue at all slugging a .30ish bore with a .326ish sinker. I usually use a .440 swaged round ball in my .30 bores. Start it with a plastic hammer and push it through with an aluminum or brass rod.

[FredBuddy]

David:

Read a lot---the stickies here will tell you how make a mold drop a boolit that's a tad bigger, and many other useful tips. My lee 150 makes boolits at .309 with my wheelweight mix.
I also am trying an old lyman mold for 32-20 that drops boolits at .312. These I size to .310. The 'rub' comes with my latest acquisition, a 1949 Marlin waffletop---.310's loaded are a bit too tight for its chamber! I was hoping to settle on .310 as the standard for all my 30-30's.

Lastly, go to marlinowners.com, go to the reloading section and review the sticky about lite loads for the 30-30. There's a ton of info there. Castboolits and marlinowners are my goto sites for just about everything in the rifle reloading realm.

Jump in !

[geargnasher]

Go back and re-read post #12. Slugging a rifle's bore is a waste of time.

Read Goodsteel's sticky in "cast boolits" bout how to make a pound cast of the chamber and throat. Measure that, and use the largest boolit that will chamber. The object here is to minimize loaded case neck clearance. Forget everything you ever thought you knew about jacketed bullets and start over fresh, very little translates because the entire functional dynamic of cast boolits is different, except for the part about burning powder pushing the boolit out, that stays the same, but that's about all. :wink:

Gear

[davidheart]

MY Lee mould in MY alloy drops at .312. Your mold and alloy might be a little smaller or a little larger.

Ah ok. Well I would wish I had one which dropped at .312 because I just slugged my bore twice. I went to wal-mart and picked up some slip-sinkers which were "1/8 size". They started out measuring .325 and slugged at .311. So this means I need to shoot a .312 or .311?

I also just shot a round to check the inside throat diameter of a fired case and it comes in at .311 Does this mean a .312 'boolit' would strip as it was being seated?

[retiredPO]

It may...and it was happening to me.... so a Sage gentleman on this site (HI Velocity) told me to take a 223 empty brass case
and nose down, ligtly tap the 223 ... it will flare the 30-30 perfectly.... worked like a dream....

[davidheart]

Wow that's a great idea. I'll have to give it a shot if I need to open up the neck sometime.

Does anybody know of a mold which drops .312 diameter boolits? I saw pointed ones for 7.62x39 but unless I'd be able to hammer the point down they would be useless in my Marlin without making it a 2-shot.

[Pb2au]

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/select-mould-rifle.php?styleRef=cat06#anc

Depending on your alloy, these should get you close.
I find, with my alloy, that Lee molds tend to drop large. So the 170 grain fp drops at .3105-ish, when the mold is called out at 309.
I'd say just get your feet wet and start casting and shooting.

[davidheart]

Let's say the Lee mold drops at .310. Is it possible for me to use a bullet with some polish compound to "polish" the mold to enlarge it to .312? I think I saw something like that posts around here.

[Pb2au]

+.002 might be a long way to go and keep everything concentric. To be honest, I've never taken one out that far. If this is something you might want to pursue, do a search on beagling. I just went down this road with an undersized Lyman 8mm mold.
If you are getting a .310" bullet, I would suggest lubing and sizing to the same (310) and giving it a go. I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the results.
What powder/load combination are you considering for the Marlin?

[retiredPO]

Other option also might be powdercoating... instead of the resizing of the mold... check it out.... pretty cool.

[davidheart]

If you are getting a .310" bullet, I would suggest lubing and sizing to the same (310) and giving it a go. I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the results.
What powder/load combination are you considering for the Marlin?

I'm actually getting a .311 size from the bore, so that's why I was thinking about needing a mold which will throw .312. I'm going to try some .311 boolits to check my accuracy but from what I've learned so far a .312 boolit will serve me best.

For a hunting load I have on hand H335 and W748. I'm going to try to get a hold of some BL-C(2), Levolution, or 4227 but around here and with a limited budget you just take what you can get and/or afford. I'll need to work up a load with each powder which will work well in my 336, and while I'm sure I'll end up with a preference I'm going to need a backup or two in case I can't find that powder when I run out.

I also want to work up a plinking load which I could practice with and use a little amount of powder.


Other option also might be powdercoating... instead of the resizing of the mold... check it out.... pretty cool.

Just did a quick check on powdercoating. That looks very neat! I'll need to do some more researching on it. Thank you. :grin:

[tcrocker]

I just got a lee 150 gr fn mold and a .309 sizer added gas checks and lee lube and used it with my new Marlin BL it gets about 1" at 50yds using 26gr of IMR 4198 that load it out of the Lee reloading book for jacketed boolits but if you use gas checks you should be fine, just watch out for leading and high pressure. I started out low and worked up and that was the fastest load before it started opening the groups up.