Hyde patched

[Don McDowell]

Had a break in the weather, took the rougrider with it's new chamber leed, and MVA scope out for a run. Only at 300 yds, and on steel ( paper target face still froze to the ground) after several rounds of left from last year ammo finding the range and sort of getting a handle on the squirrely wind (got to say those mildots are handy little devils) this is what 8 rounds looked like. BACO 434-470 bullet cast from 16-1 wrapped in Seth Cole 8# short of the ogive, and just enough to go over the base edges (.438 dia), NO wads, 76 grs. OE 2f, br2, Jamison 44-77 cases. Wiped between shots 1 napa oil and water patch damp, 1 dry run thru the bore on a delrin rod with a 45 cal nylon rifle brush. Definetly something to pursue at longer range I'm thinking.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/002_zpsf2482bf6.jpg

[country gent]

Nice very nice group there Don. The Hyde patch dosnt leave a "tail" on the bullets base? I have some patched in that manner but Ohios winter this year has kept me inside more than normal.

[Don McDowell]

Thanks.
Yes the "Hyde" patch just barely folds over the edges of the base, these were patched short of the ogive as well. To give you a better idea, the patch width is 3/4 in. on a bullet that has a 3/4 inch straight shank. They would just barely chamber with some thumb pressure (which is sort of an adventure in its own with the scope covering everything up)
This way of patching seems to work best rolling the paper wet.

[bigted]

Don ... is this with your new 44-77 or with a rifle sent back in to rebarrel to the 44? still wanna get my Hartford rebarreled to the 44-77 but got to get settled this spring before i send it in.

i would sure admire getting a Roughrider so chambered but not sure if the funds will be available this summer.

looks like you are getting a handle on your 44 and that group is dandy at 300.

[Don McDowell]

Ted this is the roughrider (newest rifle) After I got the #3 back with it's new 44 barrel with the 7* leed, got all excited bout how well it shot and sent this rifle back to have that leed put in it. Right after I shipped it , this 23 in MVA fell into my lap at a price that couldn't be missed, so I had Kirk drill and tap and install the scope mounts... Such a deal, all that work and modification to a rifle and it's warranty is good.
Got a barrel ordered to rebarrel my CSA 75 , it will be a 44-90/100 straight when that project all comes together, probably about this time next year.

[bigted]

cool. is the 44-90 the long case = 3 .250 inch? or am i thinking of another case. very nice on the MVA scope. i gather from your first post that it has the mill dots ... these are a very cool addition to the scope world ... thankyou military. i enjoy my Night Force with them on my bolt rifle.

guess when you took the 44 step ... you fell clear off the 45 wagon ... LOL ... :drinks:

[Don McDowell]

Ted there's the 44-90 and 100 straight which are 45 2.4 2.6 cases necked down, and then there's the 44-90/100 bn which is usually denoted as 44 2 5/8.
Yeh anybody with a handi rifle can do anything available in 45 caliber,,, not so mundane nor routine in the 44. :)

[ryan28]

Don, what is the theory behind patching just short of the ogive? Also, what can happen if the patch is over the ogive a bit?

[Don McDowell]

Ryan, patching short of the ogive will allow for about 2 minutes less elevation on the sight staff (I know it sound weird but it's real) If the patch goes over the ogive, it may or may not separate from the bullet and will cause you to use more elevation on the sight staff. The elevation on the sight staff thing doesn't sound to important until you get to shooting past 600 yds, that's where little things start turning into monsters.

[Don McDowell]

On a more serious note about the 44 caliber, it's historically correct. Both Remington and Sharps started out with the 44 bottleneck cartridges in the long range guns, then they went to the 44 straight because it was thought the bottleneck cases generated more recoil, I suspect with the brass of the day case separation at the shoulder may have been a big problem with reloaded cases. Then Sharps jumped completely off the 44 band wagon and went with the 45, I believe mostly in an effort to have some identity separation from the Remington cartridges , and a feverish pursuit of military contracts in order to keep the company afloat during some severely depressed economic times.

[bigted]

whatever the case ... i am hooked on the 44's. i currently shoot the first cousin ... 43 spanish ... same case as the 44-77 with just a bit different bore measurement. i shoot a 400ish grain boolit greaser or a .444 patched slick ahead of 75 grains GOEX 2F powder. i love it to pieces and the recoil is manageable being better then the 73 grain 45-70 shooting a 500ish boolit. i have faith that these 44's would upset any game animal hunted with them. also as is being seen ... the long range accuracy is there for those that will experiment with them and pay attention to what the rifle is saying.

glad you posted this one Don. between the 44's and my new to me ... original remington sporting 40-65 ... i am whistling dixie for sure. throw in my 38's and i can almost say i been weened off the 45 wagon myself ... ALMOST THAT IS !!!

[Don McDowell]

I hear ya Ted. I also want to do some exploration of the 40-90 bn, but at this time there's just so many projects and so little money (:

[bigted]

im with ya on the $ thing. currently saving for a move this breakup ... back to the world. gotta keep the missus happy and i recon 15 years is long enough for a camping trip anyway. ill miss the rough and wild places here but i look forward to summers being longer then the winters. also looking forward to being able to shoot comfortably all year long instead of this 8 or 9 month hiatus every year.

at any rate im looking forward to my opportunity to obtain a Roughrider of my own ... still thinkin on getting my Hartford rebarreled but im kinda fond of that 120 chamber and those sexy long cases loaded with copious amounts of BP. who knows!!! haveta wait n see i guess.

in the world i will have opportunity to buy and shoot the cheaper blackpowder that i can get delivered to my door step anytime so am looking forward to that as well as the meeting of some of you fellers at some point. never too old for another adventure i guess.

[Don McDowell]

Good luck on the move Ted. Things aren't as good down here as you might remember, but the availability of shooting components has got to be better than what you have there.

[johnson1942]

years ago i bought a device that you slip a .45 or .40 paperpatch bullets base into and then tap a cutter that fits in the hole that goes up to the base and it cuts the paper in the center of the base in a perfect small circle. it ends up as you all describe as your type of paperpatch bullet. i dont see those tools advertised any more but some one should make them. i have seen post here or other areas of cast booilts that shooters describe as the double wrap chase system. i figured out what that is and it is the same way i paperpatch my 45/70. i use my own smoothsided swaged bullets with a long bearing surface and a short nose. i soak my paper in a water, paper glue mixture. the paper is rectangular in shape. it goes twice around the bullet and i slightly twist the tails and let dry completely by air. when dry i twist the tails very tight and then snip off and then use my cutter to take the center out. then with a very sharp small knife i cut the paper at the seem line from top to the base but not into the base. because of the glue water mixture the paper has become one piece and the paper is just like a formed chase single wrap only it is formed tightly to the paper. i then lube and set in the case over a fiber or poly wad which i cut with a cutter that fits on my press.my barrel is .4585 and i have throated the back for a 1/2 inch to .459. the bullet when i seat the cartridge goes up into the throat with ease but snug. the paper comes of at the muzzle like a sabot and is a bit more intact then double wrap the conventional way. accracy is as good as possible and very consistant. i have shot lubed cast bullets just as accurate but what i like about the double wrap chase method is no chance of leading and i can get more weight into a bullet length that suits my barrels twist than i can with a grooved cast bullet. i also just like the looks of my swaged bullets and they are more perfect than a cast can ever be no matter how good a caster you are. the think the method i use reduces the risk of fliers and to be honest is boreingly consistantly accurate. also as i stated before i get more weight into a bullet than a cast one. my barrels twist is 1/22 and was made many years ago. i can swage a 500 grain bullet that is well within the length that will shoot a 1000 yards for the 1/22 twist as a cast grooved bullet wouldnt come near that. thanks for all the posts on this suject as they were interesting to read, just wish some one would make the tool again to take the center paper out so every one could get one.

[Don McDowell]

I suppose a hole punch with a really sharp polished edge could do that, but I don't find it much trouble to just wrap the patch that way.

[Huvius]

years ago i bought a device that you slip a .45 or .40 paperpatch bullets base into and then tap a cutter that fits in the hole that goes up to the base and it cuts the paper in the center of the base in a perfect small circle. it ends up as you all describe as your type of paperpatch bullet. i dont see those tools advertised any more but some one should make them...
just wish some one would make the tool again to take the center paper out so every one could get one.

One alternative as a hand tool is one of those rubber feet which are designed to press into the bottom of a wood table or chair leg.
I know Ace Hardware sells them.
They are a hard round rubber foot with a 30ish caliber sharpened tube in the middle. Makes for an easy little tool to cookie cut the patch tail, although you have to pick the tail out of the tube after a couple.

[johnson1942]

i should post a picture but my wife is the one who does that and i will try to fit it into her schedule soon. it may be similar to what you say. it would be easy to make on a lathe. i treasure it as part of my gun tool box. i think some one here could make a little side cash makeing these things again also.