need 357 contender help

[marshall623]

I was shooting my new to me 357 Mag barrel yesterday and I noticed it was leading the first 1 1/2" of rifling and the rest of the tube was fine . I've slugged the throat and boolit fit is good . I haven't done any load work yet just shooting what my GP 100 likes . The load was lyman 358477 COWW / 2 % tin over 10 gr Blue Dot and I tried air cooled & water cooled with the same result . This thing has a long throat / I put a boolit in a fired case and closed it and it wont even push the boolit to the lube groove . Any help, suggestions or experience is appreciated Thanks

Tim

[Larry Gibson]

That load is top end for a revolver but probably over the top for a PB'd cast in a Contender. I've had 3 different .357 Contender barrels but all have had short throats. I've shot a lot of 358477s and other PB'd cast through them. With the closed breach and longer barrel the velocity is much higher with a given load. Suggest you back off so the velocity stays under 1400 fps with that bullet. A change of powder to a faster burning one may be needed.

Also; what lube are you using?

Larry Gibson

[seaboltm]

Larry nailed it of course. The velocity out of a contender is much higher than a revolver since there is no cylinder gap. As the bullet travels down the barrel you pick up even more velocity as contender barrels are typically longer than the average revolver barrel. Better lube, a mold that holds more lube, or a gas check may help. I have this same problem in 45 colt, 44 magnum, and 357 magnum. I generally live with the leading in the contender because I have found accuracy to still be pretty good.

[missionary5155]

This thing has a long throat / I put a boolit in a fired case and closed it and it wont even push the boolit to the lube groove . Any help, suggestions or experience is appreciated Thanks

Tim

Greetings Nice buck in that avatar ! Never could get my daughter near a critter at that age.

Hard to tell what a previous owner may have done to the barrel. But your statement about the boolit "not being pushed into the case" says to me you need a fatter boolit. If your loaded boolit offers no resistence to the throat diameter then there is ample space for gas blowby.
Can you chamber a larger diameter ? I generally start with a fattest boolit I can chamber and seldom am I disappointed working with lead projectiles.
An additional solution to look at is "long seat" the boolit in the case to maximun OAL for that chamber. I do that with my single shots and it helps accuracy.
Larry covered the Blue Dot load which I have not used in my Contenders.
If you have a piece of 357 Max brass see if that will chamber.. maybe you have a "mutant"..
Mike in Peru

[357maximum]

Did you clean the barrel surgically clean when you got it? Could be some roughness in the throat/leade area, you do not know what the last guy was shooting.......make sure that is not the issue....this will also remove any "leading seeds" that can cause a buildup/galling to happen. You might need only a fatter cork(boolit) in the chamber.


then......


Things to try in the order I would try them after having several of these barrels, your description of the leading tells me your boolit is not sealing things up anywhere near quick enough. A faster powder may help with that, but mechanically fixing the reason you are not sealing would be my first concern. If you were merely running the boolit too hard FPS wise/or your lube was failing your leading would be at the muzzle end of the barrel, not the breech.

1. Try a softer yet tougher alloy...say 50%ww/50%coww----- water drop them first then try aircooled
2. Try the fattest nosed boolit you can get to go in that barrel.....a Lee/Larsen/MiHec 180WFN-GC if you have one.
3. Try a GC design
4. Get your hands on some 357MAX or 360DanWesson brass and see if someone got a reamer in the chamber or if you just happen to have one of the many TC funnnnnnnnnnnellllllllllllll throats.

4. If #4 is the issue- buy/borrow/rent a 360DW/357Max reamer and start trimming brass to fit whatever it took to clean your chamber up to something that makes sense with a real throat.

5. Sell/swap barrels till you find an abnormal for TC throat that is what it should be.


The barrel I have now engraves the Lee/Larsen 180 WFN, but it is the only one of three barrels that would do this.....mine still likes a GC for extreme accuracy, but I am running full tilt with MP-300. This barrel simply dotes on the Larsen 180, but does not appreciate a SWC of any flavor...the fatter BRP 358156 boolit will shoot ok, but it is not quite what the Larsen 180 is accuracy wise. It makes sense as the 180WFN engages and all others I have do not.


GOOD LUCK

[HeavyMetal]

I'm trying to figure out which 1 1/2 of the barrel is getting leaded up, in front of the chamber or muzzle end.

If it's the muzzle end the lube is giving up and you need to change it, if it's the chamber end you have other issues.

Some Contender 357 barrels, and some 44 mag barrels as well, are cut to use a shot shell and have a long sloppy "throat" gas cutting of the boolit can be happening here if the leading is in the first portion of the barrel just in front of the chamber.

I finally found a 357 Octagon barrel that was not cut to use these shot loads and have never had an issue with leading but I looked hard to avoid a barrel chamberd for the shot loads!

You may find the Lyman mold may not work for this barrel and may start thinking about a 200 grainer which will be longer and may help with this problem.

[marshall623]

Larry I'm using Carnuba Red lube , I'm dropping back to a starting load and work up to see what happens . It really didn't shoot well at all . It was cold and I was chomping at the bit to see what it will do. Mike I'm going to try backing off on the powder first then I'll try a few seated out as far as I can as far as a mutant I hope not but that chamber looks long. But I think its a T/C long throat & leade . The barrel come from a long time silly wet shooter who retired from the game , he shot a contender in 22LR & 357mag. He sold it the works to another shooter who only wanted the frame. The gent who had it, I can't picture him having it punched out to a max. Well long story short I couldn't bear to walk away from it for a $ 125 Thanks
I see the other replies after put this up the leading is on the breech end I'm sure the lube is OK ( nice lube star on the muzzle I'll have to look into some heavier fatter boolits

[JSH]

IMHO to over come what you describe easily is simple. Go full custom and the chamber will be cut properly. I have had more than my fair share of barrels for the contender. 98% of the factory barrels are chambered with the long tapered forcing cone.
It was always explained to me that TC did this to keep from engauging the rifling to keep pressures down. In the early days of ihmsa there were a lot of heavy for caliber loads used.
With my 10" ss factory barrel I partial size as the chamber is oversized. Neck size of a straight wall if you will. Bullet weights, I have run 158-205 checked and unchecked. W 820 is a favorite along with lil gun. I won't post loads as they are over the top. The harder I pushed it the better it shoots. I am sizing .359. FWFL is my lube. WW with a bit of tin is my alloy. I was water dropping but quit that as I was getting some skidding.
I suspect that may be your issue along with a boolit that is to small.
Jeff

[uscra112]

T/C screwed up countless Max barrels, it appears to me, but I think it was just sloppy engineering, not any attempt at pressure control. It looks to me that they were buying SAAMI pistol reamers, which nominally have a pilot that is just .346" diameter, and the long taper forcing cone with no boolit seat at all. They are loose as the proverbial goose in a rifle barrel with a .350 bore, as are used to make Contenders/Encores. Off-center chambers result, and the long taper lets a lot of gas bypass the boolit in the first 1/2" of travel. Pretty dumb, if you ask me, to do that even once, and even dumber to let it go on for so long.

Maybe the same with .357 Magnum? I have never cared to find out. My only Magnum is a revolver.

The fix, if that proves to be the problem, is to ream the chamber out to .357 Maximum, USING THE RIGHT REAMER. I had one made by Dave Manson, with a proper ball seat, and the right pilot, and it was worth it. It cost me about the same as sending a barrel to Bellm, and I ended up owning the reamer. (The job, BTW takes all of ten minutes. Bellm gets away with murder, charging what he does.)

The Max is, IMHO, a bit too much for a Contender if loaded to it's full potential, but in an Encore it's OK. My deer load is a 180 grain HP j-wart, with a hot load of Lil-Gun. I fired three a year to sight in, and usually only one more per deer. As I said, a full house Max puts a lot of strain on a Contender. For plinking and practice I loaded down to .357 velocities using Blue Dot, (I've got a lot of Blue Dot), and whatever 175-180 grain boolits come to hand, sized .358. No leading, ever.

[williamwaco]

I have a .357 Mag Contender with a 12 inch barrel.
And a long throat.
The throat looks like it has been sandblasted.
I know it came from the factory that way because I bought it new.

You have some really good advice from Larry and .357Max.
Using A#9, 2500, and Herco I can push plain based bullets to 1400/1500 fps with no trouble. No leading and good accuracy.

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook No. says:
10.5 gr Blue Dot will get you to 1443 in a 10" Contender with a 358156
10.8 grains Blue Dot gets you 1350 with a 359477 in a 4 inch universal receiver at 41,200 CUP

I like your alloy, same as I use. Air cooled only. I seriously do not like hard bullets.
You did not mention diameter.
All my revolvers, S&W and RUGER digest bullets 0f .356, .357, .358 equally well. No leading and equal accuracy.
My Contender does not like .356 at all, complains about .357, and works well only with .358 to .360.

Now about the leading.
I believe that almost ( and I emphasize not all ) leading is caused by bullets being undersized, too hard, and bad lube.
I have never used your lube but I hear too much good about it to suspect it. I use Lyman 50/50 or Orange Magic but I don't think lube is the problem.
If you want to try a different lube you can relube your already sized and lubricated bullets by tumbling them in a tumble lube. You do not need to remove the current lube.

Try your softer bullets sized at least .358. If you don't have a die that size, try them unsized.

This works for me with even .38 Special cases and that is a REALLY long jump.

[JSH]

Guys have tried to clean up a 357 mag with the max reamer. End results were real iffy.
Bellm even got a gb for 38 special match barrels together. The max reamer would still not clean them up as they should be.
Jeff

[Iowa Fox]

Its that throat causing you problems. I have a 10" stainless 357 barrel and its maddening. I have tried everything and not totally eliminated the leading. Fat bullets is the only thing that I have found to help, I'm talking .361 sized and lubed. Most molds drop at 359 or 360 so its really hard to find fat bullets for the 357. I tried some 700X and it was the worst for leading. Unique was good, H110 and Blue Dot were not to bad. The TC 44 mag pistol barrels are the same with long throats. Its much easier with the 44 as I have several molds that drop .4345. TC pistol 357 & 44 mag chambers are challenging. I do have on 10" 357 barrel with a normal throat, I don't know how it made it out of TC like that but its sure easy to work up loads for. uscra described TCs chambers perfectly.

[marshall623]

Thanks Guys I have a list of things to try . I did forget to mention I 'm sizing at .358 I can't ream it out to a Max as I got the thing to shoot IHMSA field pistol and have a shot at Big Bore Standing too. I guess its time to start tinkering Thanks Again