I Just Double Charged Boolits Accidently

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just double charged a case with 2 boolits -almost. After 30 years of reloading a boolit got stuck in the seater die and I placed another boolit on the case mouth, lowered the handle which raised the case up into the seater die to seat the boolit. The end result was the boolit jammed deep into the case on top of the powder. The stuck boolit remained in the seater die. Yes, it felt all wrong and I could tell something was wrong. I was loading .45 ACP with my cast 452374 wheel weight lubed with Alox sized .452". The powder was Unique.

It all started when I got distracted by a brass case at stage one which had a crimp at the primer. Seating a primer at stage one wasn't successful because of the crimp on the brass. So I tried it again, the primer had turned sideways in the cup and got bent, the primer detonated. This is the second primer detonation I have ever experienced with the Dillon in 25 years. I threw the brass away, dumped the powder out of the case at stage two, had to adjust the tension of the screws of the primer feed bar and continued. I placed a boolit on the case mouth at stage three because obviously a boolit was not there. But the boolit previously placed on the case mouth had stuck in the seater die. Hence, the scenario was set for me to seat two boolits in one case.

My dies are RCBS but this seater die is a Lee brand die. This is the only Lee die I own. I was using all four stations, seating and crimping at two different stations.

Good thing I wasn't loading the .45 Colt with a 200 gr or less boolit.

I was using my Dillon 550B. My loading history is tons of .44 Special on the Dillon 550, quite a bit of .45 Colt on the Dillon 550, an extensive history of 9mm on the Dillon 550 plus other cartridges including the .38 Special and .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .380. I've competed and placed in National matches. For the past few years I've been priming my .45 Colt on my RCBS Rockchukar and then loading on the Dillon with pre-primed brass beginning at station number two charging the case. I seat and crimp on two different stations with the .45 Colt. I make a lot of this ammo. I've never had a problem with the .44 Special, 9mm and in fact seat and crimp at the same station with these calibers and I prime with the Dillon at stage one with the .44 Special and did when I used to load the 9mm.

I've been interested in how cowboys blow up their single action revolvers using a scant dusting of fast burning powders, a double charge of which would not cause a gun to blow up. Allan Jones wrote an opinion that cowboys blow up their single actions by double loading their boolits. He explained that a double charge of mouse flatulence does not generate enough energy to blow a gun, yet we see cowboy guns blown up. He explains that underweight, small boolits seated in voluminous black powder cases are small enough that a reloader can seat two boolits. This double charge of boolits can blow a thin walled single action revolver cylinder. Allen Jones has published pictures of cases cut in half with two boolits in the case, there is room in the .45 Colt case that two light boolits can fit. Cowboys load on a progressive and load large volumes. He recommends nothing less than 200 gr boolits in the .45 Colt and .44 Special and better yet, use the .38 Special if you want to shoot light loads in a shooting game. Dave Scovill has written me a letter in response to a letter I wrote to him and he said that Handloader magazine does not review progressive presses for just this kind of reason. He personally uses the Redding T-7.

So I did it. I seated two boolits, kind of. I've read other posts where people say it can't be done, how could someone seat two boolits in one case. Personally I do not load light boolits in any cartridges, I load 240 gr lead in the .44 Special and Magnum and 250 gr lead in the .45 Colt, 150 gr lead in the .38 Special. I am do not have as extensive a history in loading the .45 ACP, partially because I am issued .45 ACP to sufficient quantities that I do not need to load much of it.

Time to point and laugh at me.

[ReloaderFred]

I was on the stage when a fellow SASS shooter blew up his SAA clone with a double bullet charge in his .45 Colt. He loads on a 550B, and figured out that two 200 gr. RNFP bullets ended up in the same case. He had experienced other bullets sticking in the die, but had noticed them before he placed another bullet on the case. He missed one, and his revolver grenaded before his eyes, and his hand stung, but no other damage resulted.

He said in thinking back he knew exactly when it happened, because like you, he became distracted by a malfunction in one of the other positions on the press, and missed the fact that he had already placed a bullet on the charged case, but because the stroke wasn't completed, the light touch was enough for the bullet to stick inside the die.

Even experienced reloaders can have a problem when distracted, or things don't happen in the normal fashion. Without lockout sensors after each die, everything depends on the operator for a good product.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[KYCaster]

STOP, DROP AND ROLL!!!

No, seriously......when you're loading on a progressive press, if you're distracted by ANYTHING.......

STOP pulling the handle!

DROP everything else from your mind!

ROLL the shell plate around to eject all the rounds that are in process!

Make sure any obstruction is cleared and all stations are adjusted properly before proceeding. This is especially important on manually indexing machines like the Dillon 550.

I know....we've all done this 10,000 times and we can do it in our sleep, but if you come back to the press after letting the dog out and you have to think, "Now where was I?".....or you have one of those "Hmmmm, that didn't feel right" events.....it's time to start from square one.

It may take a few minutes to get back in the groove, but that's better than losing a gun.....or hand.....or eye due to a mistake at the press.

Jerry

[btroj]

Exactly Jerry. Many times I have stopped for so,e reason and the first thing I do is verify if powder is in the cases for powder drop and bullet seating. I even look to see if the case in the sizing station has a new primer or not.
Seating a second bullet just seems difficult to me on a 550. I would think you would notice that the bullet didn't seem to sit on the case mouth like normal.
Ever think about the fact that pulling the handle to seat that second bullet also means a case was double charged? That isn't any better.

Can't be overly cautious when loading on any press, a progressive just requires even more vigilance.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Silver Jack Hammer, Bless you for posting. Great write up. I wish everyone thinking of buying a progressive would read a post like yours and understand the increase in production rates brings with it an increase in the rate of risk.

The biggest risk factor is the operator on any press, single stage or progressive. But the same operator on a progressive has more opportunities for an error in a shorter amount of time per loaded round, and that does mean more risk per round. Now for people whose risk on a single stage is near zero, then even two times that amount is still near zero. So I'm not preaching against progressives. If you shoot competitively then you will need a progressive.

I think your post points out that regardless of skill level, distraction is a root cause. Also the more you load, the more apt you are to have an error. Same idea as buying more lottery tickets increases your chance of winning.

[marvelshooter]

A while back I had to disassemble about a hundred rounds of .45 ACP. I was cruising along with my Square Deal and suddenly realized the charge bar in the powder dispenser was no longer moving. I set up a light that lets me look into the case and "see" powder before placing the boolit.

[Southern Son]

STOP, DROP AND ROLL!!!

No, seriously......when you're loading on a progressive press, if you're distracted by ANYTHING.......

STOP pulling the handle!

DROP everything else from your mind!

ROLL the shell plate around to eject all the rounds that are in process!

Make sure any obstruction is cleared and all stations are adjusted properly before proceeding. This is especially important on manually indexing machines like the Dillon 550.

I know....we've all done this 10,000 times and we can do it in our sleep, but if you come back to the press after letting the dog out and you have to think, "Now where was I?".....or you have one of those "Hmmmm, that didn't feel right" events.....it's time to start from square one.

It may take a few minutes to get back in the groove, but that's better than losing a gun.....or hand.....or eye due to a mistake at the press.

Jerry

+1!!!!!! That is the truth, Jerry. I have had a couple of problems on my 550, but never made a double charge, overload, double boolit or whatever, WITHOUT NOTICING. Pay attention to what you are doing, the press won't make any mistakes, the operator might, but if you PAY ATTENTION, you should feel or see the problem.

I long ago got sick of these people that blame the progressive press for guns exploding. Like Shooting on a Shoestring said, a dummy on a single stage is more likely to have a problem on a progresive, but it isn't because of the press, it is because of the dummy. If a person cannot run a progresive press in the comfort of their reloading room with no pressure or outside distractions, perhaps a gun on a shooting range in the pressure of a competition is not a good place for them.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

btroj, "Seating a second bullet just seems difficult to me on a 550. I would think you would notice that the bullet didn't seem to sit on the case mouth like normal."

The boolit I had placed on top of the mouth of the charged cast failed seat and stuck in the seater die.

Fortunately I did catch the issue, it was really obvious. Two 230 gr boolits at station three locks up the process. As I examine this after the fact it appears that two (2) 230 gr boolits cannot be accidently loaded into an ACP cartridge. There isn't enough room. Neither is there enough room for two (2) 250 gr boolits in a .45 Colt brass. I quit loading under weight boolits a long time ago but had I been loading 200 gr booits in .45 Colt, I think I could have double charged boolits right then.

One issue is that when shooting a bottom feeder, I'm picking up brass off the ground and someone else's brass got into my mix. The case with a crimped primer pocket was something I didn't expect. That caused the unexpected issue at station one.

Personally intend to prime all my .45 ACP brass on my Rockchukar from now on. I've been doing this with the .45 Colt and it really is an extra step worth the time.

This was a real lesson for me, I enjoy the conversation here on the forum.

[HeavyMetal]

Loading mixed case's particularly in 45 auto can get you a crimped primer case.

I've also had small flash hole brass case issue with the de priming pin stick in the case!

Because of this I started loading by HS years ago and sorting all brass after it came out of the tumbler.

Bottom line, as already posted, when a stoppage occurs stop and remove everything from the press, pull whatever boolits are seated, clear all the brass and start over!

[Johnny Boy]

I started and stayed with a single stage. Initially reloading 308 for the long range F-T/R with very close attention to detail on every step for every round. Weigh each charge, (using a RCBS ChargeMaster); drop into case; etc. I do this for every round I load: match, practice hunting, plinking; rifle, handgun.
One step at a time - single minded - not the fastest - but the safest. Heck, why rush through any portion of my "hobby time".

[Bullshop Junior]

I did this last time I loaded 45 colt....on a Single stage. Got side tracked after trying to seat a bullet in one that had sonehow skipped the belling prosses. It happens

[fatelk]

A while back I had to disassemble about a hundred rounds of .45 ACP. I was cruising along with my Square Deal and suddenly realized the charge bar in the powder dispenser was no longer moving. I set up a light that lets me look into the case and "see" powder before placing the boolit.

So I'm not the only one. :)

I've loaded for many years on my old single stage, and am very particular. I use load blocks, and before seating I'll take a flashlight and check every case in the block at least twice with singular focus to make sure the powder levels are the same. Now since starting on a Dillon I have mounted a small LED light on the side of the press to shine in the case as it goes from the charging t the seating station. For my own peace of mind I have to see the powder in each case before it gets a bullet. Like distracted driving, distracted reloading is dangerous. Focus, focus, focus...

Back when I started reloading I made all the classic mistakes:
No powder - ended up taking a revolver apart to pound a bullet out of the forcing cone.
Wrong powder - dang near blew up my old Mossberg.
Double charge - fortunately double charged light .38s didn't blow up my .357.
And others. Needless to say I'm much more careful now.

[williamwaco]

It all started when I got distracted by "yada, yada, yada"


Time to point and laugh at me.




Not laughing!

Anyone who never got distracted has silicone chips for a brain.

Any time ANYTHING unusual, much less suspicious, happens with a progressive loader.

Stop feeding immediately and finish the currently in-process rounds manually one at a time double checking every one of them.

Then remove the source of the distraction before continuing.

Here are my most common sources of distraction. All should be ruthlessly eliminated.

TV
Radio
Family: Wife, kids, cousins, pets.
Friends: girl/boy friend, buddies, drinking buddies, shooting buddies, hunting buddies, etc.
Food: Drinks, especially beer, wine, etc. I also include Coke, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper on that list.

There around 9,433 others but I will not bore you with the complete list.

[DLCTEX]

I hate the small primer 45acp for that reason. What a mess on a progressive. I would use a Lee hand primer rather than priming on my Rockchucker. No handling of the primer and much faster/simpler.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just double seated two (2) 454190's into a .45 Colt case. I didn't think two (2) boolits would fit, but they did. Then I tried to seat two (2) 454190's into a .45 Colt case with 5.8 grains of Trial Boss to see if they would fit, and they did seat. The finished cartridge looked like a regular finished cartridge with only one boolit. I tried to see if it felt different on the handle of the 550 but I honestly can't say it did.

I tried to seat two (2) 452374's into a .45 ACP case but they would not fit.

Moderators, should I start a new thread?

[ReloaderFred]

Two 200 gr. RNFP bullets in a .45 Colt case is pretty easy to do, and when the loader is using a less dense powder, like TiteGroup, or something similar, it's easy to overlook it. That's what happened to my friend when he blew up his SAA clone.

It also seems to happen more often with manually indexed presses than with automatic indexing presses, as do double charges. If one forgets to index the press, due to distraction, then problems result.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[762 shooter]

I have a 1050 and a 550B. For some reason I just loaded 2500 9mm and 2500 45ACP on a single stage. Time is on my side and I have touched each piece of brass at least 5 times during the process. I have looked at every charge and check weighed after each 50 thrown. After the brass is processed up to the belled stage, I can load 400 in about 90 minutes.

I would let anyone shoot these rounds and not worry one bit about a bad round. Not that I would.

Unless you pre-process your brass or buy new, the dreaded SPP 45 brass and/or crimped brass will throw a monkey wrench into a progressive rhythm.

Musings from an old reloader with plenty of time.

762

[rockshooter]

I also use the Lee hand primer seater before running the cases thru the Dillon. I deprime using the Lee universal deprimer. Adds a couple of steps but still faster than a single-stage press and no longer primer seating issues. I removed the whole primer seating assy from the Dillon.
Loren

[MtGun44]

The one previous report of this that I have seen was a SASS shooter that blew up TWO .44-40 revolvers
with what turned out to be double boolit loads.

Bill

[Leadmelter]

I own a 550B and yes you must be careful. If there is any hitch.. STOP and fix it.
I always play the same CD's when I am loading. I usually only reload when I am home alone and turn off the phone.
The 550B is a great machine and I did a 100 38sp this morning before work in less that 20 minutes.
Good luck and be careful!
Leadmelter
MI