Round ball in 45-70

[bobv]

A couple of days ago, I saw a thread on loading .457 round balls in a 45-70 but I can't seem to find it now. I'm not sure I'm in the right place to ask. Anyway , I'd like to try some in my Pedersoli 1874, can someone suggest a load, just a target load , not for hunting
Thanks
Bob

[Scrounger]

Buckshot is your man. Others may have done it but I know he has written of it here. Send him a PM.

[725]

bobv, It's one of my favorite fun loads. 9 gr unique and a round ball for my .45/70. No filler. Just drop the powder charge, and push the round ball into the case mouth so that half of the sphere is exposed when done. I usually use large caliper pliers to set the ball. I get suprising accuracy, very quiet performance, and enough umph to be a real threat to the local varmit population.
Standard Primer
Unique propellant
.457 RB
All adds up to major smiles for me. 725

[94Doug]

Here is why I own a 458 Lott. I'm sure this is the same loading....

Doug

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_51/ai_n13785373

[scb]

My favorite load in 45/70 uses 2 ball. At 50 yds. they print less than a 2" group.

[stocker]

I use round ball (.350) in my 348 Win. Unsized once fired cases, ball seated over the start of the ogive with a very light crimp. 8 to 10 grains of 5744 with large pistol primer. Pretty much as accurate at 25 yds as most 22 rf's.

The 348 has virtually no throat as do many 45-70 lever guns which I believe lends itself to round ball. How much throat in your Pedersoli?

[hs45/70]

Lee round ball mold casts at 147 gr. with WWts. used WW cases and Lrprimers.
Ruger #3 22 in brl. 3x9 scope. Ball seated flush with case neck.

10.0 Gr. Unique ..1235..1249..1274 fps.....3 shots/ 100 yds...2.0 inch

2 x Round ball Load at 294 grains
14.8 gr. Unique...1472..1489..1498 fps....3 shots/ 100yds /6 holes in 5 inch square.

One rnd ball seated " over" 1.5 gr. Bullseye...466...461..440 fps ...3 shots/25 yds/1.40 inch.

[HEAD0001]

I shoot 3-1/2 grains of Red Dot. Accurate to 40 yards, Kills squirrel's and small game. Load is so quit you can hear the hammer drop(Gallery Load). Tom.

[NickSS]

I use round balls all the time. Some loads I have used are 5 gr and 10 gr FFG black with the ball pushed all the way down in the case on top of the powder. 5, 10 and 15 gr of Unique same ball pushed down on top of powder. Also my version of the Army Guard cartridge which is 40 gr FFFG black with three balls. The last ball is crimped about midway into the case. I use unsized brass for all these loads. My favorite is the 10 gr of Unique load. very accurate in every rifle I have tried it and I have taken raccoon, coyotte and squirrels with the load to my total satisfaction. I use pure lead for the balls and Lee liquid alox for lube on the balls.

[KCSO]

If I can find a copy I did an article a few years ago on gallery loads, history, photos and loads for b/p and smokeless.

[Freightman]

Found a unused mould in a bunch I had surplus from a trade now to cast some and play. Thanks guys had no use for the mould until now.

[crossfireoops]

If I can find a copy I did an article a few years ago on gallery loads, history, photos and loads for b/p and smokeless.

Sure would like to glom onto a copy of that, KCSO.

I've got "Yard and Garden" problems, ...in a formerly rural area with all of the problems associated with "Development".....hell, when it was rural (not all that long ago, there were no pest problems.....?

Thanks, and Merry Christmas,

GTC

[StrawHat]

Sure would like to glom onto a copy of that, KCSO.

I've got "Yard and Garden" problems, ...in a formerly rural area with all of the problems associated with "Development".....hell, when it was rural (not all that long ago, there were no pest problems.....?

Thanks, and Merry Christmas,

GTC

I know that feeling.

When we first moved here we had two neighbors, the rest was trees. Now - condos and houses as far as you can see.

Oh yeah, and strip malls - can't have too many of them!

City people wanting to livev in the country.

I could use a copy of that article also, for varmits.

[1Shirt]

Have shot one, two, and three ball loads in 45-70, all with sucess. One ball at about 800-1000 fps. would be a dandy critter load to possibly all the way to 50, but for sure to 25. Same for 2 balls! However, it is a real kick to shoot 3 ball loads that out to 25 ysd. will stay in right at 3-3 1/2" in my #1. It is an equal kick to load ball loads in a 444. 5 fast out of a Marlin Lever in my early Marlin stayed all in the black. Mean varmint load for both 2 or 4 legged critters. I also use LLA as a RB lube on my round balls, :'
1Shirt!:coffee:

[mazo kid]

I have an original, in a box marked Marlin Firearms, Ideal 457 RB mould. It is stamped 457129 and I would think the 129 is the weight? I guess I'll have to use it for the first time and cast some 45-70 round balls. Or, to maintain collector value, maybe I should just order a Lee. Emery

[floodgate]

7mazo kid:

No, weight is about 145 grs. in pure lead; that ...129 is the cherry number, which Ideal and their successors at Marlin used 1897 - 1915 (I assume that this is the style with the blocks integral with the handles). It is something of a collectors item, especially with the box, but perfectly OK to cast with if you treat it right. After Lyman took over the Ideal line in late 1925, they introduced the removable blocks with separate handles; several years later, they "retired" the RB cherry numbers and started re-using them for new designs. #287129 was assigned in 1962 to a 125-gr. 7mm RN gas-check mould that lasted until 1978. I actually have an early Lyman loose-block .457 RB mould marked "457129".

floodgate

[jhalcott]

Just for general info on this subject. ALWAYS MAKE CERTAIN THE BALL HAS LEFT THE BARREL BEFORE FIRING THE NEXT ROUND. At the low velocity we are talking about a multiple ball load JUST might not get out of the muzzle. It MOST likely will only BULGE the barrel and not blow it apart,BUT>>>! I have used these loads with a couple different powders(PB and others)! They ARE a lot of fun and quite deadly on small close critters.

[mazo kid]

Floodgate, you are correct in that the mould block is integral with the handles. I should have remembered the "129" was the cherry number...Emery

[charger 1]

Here is why I own a 458 Lott. I'm sure this is the same loading....

Doug

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_51/ai_n13785373

I bought the 77 ruger in Lott for africa cause although I wasnt big on DG I figured I'd have the gun just incase a certain animal would take my fancy. Since I've seen its versatility I just cant part with er

[Linstrum]

Quite an interesting thread!

KCSO, I remember your article quite well and if you can find it please re-post it, it needs putting out here again.

It's nice to see interest in round ball and gallery load shooting out there, light loads have a very significant place in what we do.

I started doing round ball loads in 1987after I read an article in AMERICAN RIFLEMAN about "cheap" low-cost shooting and when the different shooting forums came along on the Internet I started advocating using round balls to stay in shape during the winter besides having quiet loads for when quiet loads are needed.

I like using my old Finn 91/30 Mosin-Nagant with 0.311" 45-grain round balls powered by 3-grains Unique or Red Dot instead of my .22 rifle for little jobs since I use my old Finn a lot already and like it a lot. The only thing I have to remember is that the round ball shots go somewhere around one minute of angle off to the left from full house 7.62x54R loads and I have to use the white paint dot on the rear sight I put there for round ball shooting. At 100 feet with round balls that rifle is good for right around an inch accuracy, a grunt or so bigger than the diameter of a Pepsi bottle cap.

Ten years ago I tried to get a new Ruger #1 in .458 Winmag or Lotte and there just weren't any right then so I had to settle for Winchester's pre-1964 replica M70 in .458 Winmag that they were making at the time. Nice rifle and a classic, but for sure not a classic falling block! I chose the .458 Winmag instead of a .45-70 because I realized that the .458 Winmag is just a .45-70 "long" as far as performance goes. Maybe some day I'll get a Ruger #1 since there are a few thousand more available now than there were back in 1997. As far as shooting my .458 Winmag M70 Winchester, I have fired many more round ball loads through it than any other loading since I am not a glutton for bruising myself up real good, that baby will do it for sure, and the .458 Lotte and .460 Weatherby make this old man cringe!

[BAGTIC]

I enjoy shooting round balls from a wide variety of straight cased cartridges but I only shoot them single shot so I need not worry about feeding problems. I find that I have the best results by seating the bullet directly over the powder (compressed load). It seems to result in more uniform combustion and ballistics.

[beagle]

http://www.castpics.net/index2.htm

I did a bunch of work with round balls a couple of years ago. Here's the article./beagle

[rugerman1]

http://www.castpics.net/index2.htm

I did a bunch of work with round balls a couple of years ago. Here's the article./beagle
Direct link to Article (http://www.castpics.net/memberarticles/Round%20Ball%20Loads...Final%20edit.htm)

[Oldmanjeffers]

Hello all, just signed up and I have been doing a lot of research on this topic, after digging through my black powder stuff I found two boxes of speer .451 round balls, after reading the "bump sizing" article by beagle I needed to figure out how to do this with out spending a bunch of money, so I grabbed my leeloader for the 45-70, placed the boolit seating tool in the die as you would to seat a boolit and flipped it over so it was on a piece of carpet, then I dropped a .451 ball in and using the primming tool I gave it a few taps with the hammer and popped out the ball, to my surprise with very little effort out came a flattened boolit sized to .470 that looks like a button bullet!!! I'm going to load some up and post the results, Just thought I'd share this easy and inexpensive idea to size round balls for straight case loads. Thanks

[Linstrum]

Hi, Oldmanjeffers, welcome to the board!

I shoot cheap to be able to shoot a lot unless I'm doing some serious long range target work or hunting, and cast lead or wheel weight ball loads are my favorite since the most costly part is the primer.

I'm glad that you found a way to enlarge a projectile, Beagle is THE master of boolit enlargement and if something can be enlarged he probably knows how.

I have made balls smaller, which is real easy using a cast bullet sizing die. I have a lot of .30 and .31 caliber military rifles and I make petite little pill-like projectiles for them by taking a cast lead ball in the range of 0.324" or 8mm and running it through a Lee push-through sizing die for the particular caliber rifle it is for, such as a 0.309" die for my .30-06 or a 0.312" for my Mosin-Nagant. I think I tried running a 0.358" lead ball through a 0.309" die and it worked okay. The loads for round ball and petite pill loads is 3 to 5 grains Red Dot, Unique, 700X, Green Dot, Bullseye, and any of the other very fast pistol/shot shell powders. I don't use Dacron or toilet paper over the powder, I tip the muzzle up before firing, if I remember to tip it up to locate the powder back over the flash hole. The one thing you will find of great difference using mini-bullets is the point of aim is way off to the side from the expected point of impact since the sights are set for the normal big heavy projectiles and they have a different flight path because of greatly different aerodynamics. I compensate by putting a new sighting mark off to the correct side on my rear sight with some white-out erasing fluid.

Poke around a bit more, and have fun!


rl714

[mastercast.com]

You fellers and your "ball loads" have got me interested/intrigued.

I just purchased a ball mold in .457...can't wait for it to get here!

We host a "Junior Shooter" for kids at my range...that .45/70 ball load(s) should be really fun for them.

Should be just the "ticket" for the odd Racoon raiding the garbage cans here also.

[mastercast.com]

Got the .457 round ball mold yesterday.

I cast some balls out of a hard lead alloy and those drop out of the mold at .460.

I also cast some balls out of pure lead that dropped out of the mold at .457.

I am going to load both diameter balls and see if the larger diameter, hard alloy shoots with better accuracy. I am going to use 10.0 grains of Unique to start.

I will post the results when time permits.

[Linstrum]

Hi, mastercast.com, what model .45-70 are you using?

I think 10 grains Unique sounds pretty good, my Lyman 46th edition lists a modern .45-70 rifle starting load of 10 grains of Unique for the Lyman 366 grain boolit, so pressure-wise that's great for a modern rifle. Accuracy may be low, so be prepared to diddle around a bit with smaller powder charges.

I think you will do okay with the hard alloy balls at 0.460" since the barrel contact area of a ball is very small compared to a cylindrical projectile and in my experience they readily conform to the bore when fired because of the small contact area. I save my pure lead supply to use in my cap and ball revolvers since I have very little soft lead compared to my supply of wheel weights. If you have trouble inserting the slightly oversize balls in the cartridge mouth you can always run the balls through a 0.458” sizer die. Another thing, like I have mentioned in previous threads and posts, you can take a greatly oversize ball, in this case something like a 0.469” round ball, and run it through a 0.458” sizing die to form it into a compact pill-shaped projectile with one rounded end and one flat end. It might take a lot of pressure to run that large of a ball through the sizer, though. I have used the pill-shaped mini-bullets for years for my .30 and .31 caliber milsurp rifles, starting with a 0.358” or smaller round ball and running through a 0.309” push through bullet sizing die for my 0.308-bore rifles and a 0.312” die for my Mosin-Nagants. For the .30 and .31 caliber rifle ball and pill loads, like .30-06, .308 Win, 7.62x545R, 7.5 French, etc., I use around 4 grains Red Dot, Unique, or 700X. The ball loads are by far more accurate than the pills, though, so if you try pill loads don't load up a lot of them since they may disappoint you.

I have a late model Winchester M70 in .458 Winmag (the one with the re-introduced pre-'64 features) and I have fired more round ball loads through it than I have any other kind of load since it is a shoulder-buster with full house loads. My other favorite load for it is the Lee 340-grain meant for the .45-70 and I load it down to .45-70 performance since the .458 Winmag may be thought of as a “.45-70 Long”. The ball loads are pretty good but the rear sight has to be re-calibrated to one side (to the left as I recall for right hand rifling twist) to compensate for the lack of windage drift that balls exhibit compared to cylindrical projectiles. I simply put a dab of white-out correction fluid on the rear sight instead of actually moving the rear sight over since sighting in the rifle is a chore I prefer not to do very often.

The one area of concern, and in my experience it has fortunately been just about non-existent, is gas cutting of the ball because of the very small contact area that seals the bore. High pressure gas cutting of cast bullets is the main source of barrel leading, not the rubbing-off of lead like a soft crayon onto the barrel wall as is usually thought (this has received a lot of discussion elsewhere and from the evidence I am satisfied that it is true). To prevent barrel leading from gas cutting, keep your powder charges as small as practical and put a dab of Lee Alox or some kind of lube on the ball after loading. I think Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW) will work, I use it for my .50 BMG plinkers and on down. Besides that, from my own experience I have found that large powder charges with round balls are terribly inaccurate to begin with, so barrel leading is kind of a moot point anyway! At the moment I don't recall what powder charge weight I use for the .458, but I have used Red Dot, Unique, Green Dot, and 700X. I didn't get good burning with Blue Dot, and partially burned Blue Dot eats out bores and rusts everything it contacts in just minutes because it is loaded with nitric acid regenerated from the partially decomposed nitrogen compounds in the powder. I'd leave Blue Dot/2400/H110 alone for very small loads since they don't do well at all at low pressure. But for the other powders I listed for a .458 round ball load a general rule of thumb I go by is that around 13 grains is the maximum safe load UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE, so 10 grains of Unique is within that and you can work up – which is standard operating procedure anyway. A 0.458” round ball weighs approximately 144 grains, so you can use that as a guideline to extrapolate "ball park" velocities from pistol loads.

I think you will do fine, and using mild ball loads for teaching kids is great!


rl725

[mastercast.com]

Hello Linstrum,

I have several .45/70 rifles that I could use, but I believe I will use a H&R single shot with a red dot sight. I don't think it prudent to use a high dollar Ballard, Sharps, Browning High Wall, etc., for the youngsters to shoot.

I am going to lube those balls with Rooster Jacket. I am not fond of the "mess" created by LLA.

I am going to try seating the balls inside the case just far enough to place a prelubed(black powder lube)wad on top of the ball, a hard fiber wad on top of the prelubed wad, and lightly crimp the cartridge. If that does not work well, I am certain that one or more of the loads/loading techniques mentioned in your post will.

Thank you very much for all the information that you and others took the time to share.

I have some cases with annealed case necks that I also intend to try with ball loads and see if that helps.

[94Doug]

If any one else wants it, I have a scan of an article of the 458 Lott, where the author loads everything from Black Powder to Round Ball for it. It may have some pointers for your project. I can email it to you.

Doug

[mastercast.com]

The .457 round balls shoot OK.

The hard cast .460 round balls shoot GREAT!

If I can ever figure out how to do a long post, without it being deleted, before I click on send, I will tell you how to do it.

[mastercast.com]

I finally found real accuracy, with zero fliers, using the hard cast .460 balls lubed with Rooster Jacket, loaded in annealed cases with 10.0 grains of Unique powder. I centered the sprue cut in the case when the ball was seated and applied a very mild taper crimp around the ball using the sizing die. The O.A.L. of the loaded round was 2.140". I used the case mouth expander die to finish seating the balls to uniform depth in the cases prior to taper crimping them.

I have yet to get to the range and chronograph those loads and shoot them from the bench, but they will consistently hit the end of a common 12 oz. coke can at 50 yards.

[mastercast.com]

Got to the range today.

50 yards, with a scope, equalled .428 center to center for ten, round balls.

Consistency is the key. "Thumbing them" in the case is not consistent. About "half of the ball is showing" above the case mouth is not consistent.

Load them the same way you would/should load anything else....like "consistent" and they will reward you with real accuracy.

The reason the RBS shoot so well, is because they are slow, compared to the accuracy of the "boolits" shot in the original rilfe, with real bullets.

[Linstrum]

Yeah!

I'm glad that the search for a satisfactory load was not terribly difficult.

The round ball goes back to about 1249, the .45-70 goes back to about 1873, and Unique goes back to 1899, so they are all time-tested, well-proven, and trustworthy components!


rl738

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have used round ball loads in 38 cases and 357 cases there a hoot to shoot but this sounds like a lot more fun, and I just happen to have a 457 RB mold left over from when I had a Ruger old army. I also have a good supply of 457 PB balls made up they have been setting on one of my shelves for a number of years.

[Clark]

3) 150 gr .458" lubed lead, Lyman #457130, from Western Bullets

a)15 gr Bullseye [lite load]
This load kicks like a .223
6" group at 50 yards

4) .457" lead ball,

a) 1/2 gr Bullseye [ultra lite load]
This load sounds like a pellet gun
Push the bullet down into the case to compress powder for higher velocity.
Chamfer the case mouth on the outside until sharp.
Use a board and a press to cookie cutter wadding between the powder and ball.
Compress powder, wads, and bullet with a pin gauge held in a bullet puller collet die.

The odd thing is that the 1/2 gr Bulleye makes the same sound with the bullet in the case mouth or compressed down inside. But the former bounces off wood, and the later penetrates 1".

[JDL]

Clark, Is that really 15 grains of Bullseye or 1.5 grains??
JDL

[Clark]

Clark, Is that really 15 grains of Bullseye or 1.5 grains??
JDL

That is 15 gr. Quickload thinks it is 11,000 psi and 1800 fps.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15321267663876_2091_439103
Way too fast for THAT bullet.

[45 2.1]

That is 15 gr. Quickload thinks it is 11,000 psi and 1800 fps.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15321267663876_2091_439103
Way too fast for THAT bullet.

You might be surprised to learn that Lyman sent out loading data for that boolit mold when they did the limited run some years ago. ALL of it was high velocity loadings. Some of them were faster than 1800 fps.

[steg]

I remember years back when I hunted squirrels with 3grains red dot and a round ball in .452 diameter, Had to go high tec and patch em, toilet paper, LOL. the gun was a trapdoor that I had to sell when things got rough. Anyway one day I shot a squirrel and before I could get to it It got up and ran away. Kinda glad t didnt come out of it after I picked it up, they have a nasty bite................steg

[Texantothecore]

I can't wait. I just ordered a round ball .457 mould. I have been watching these threads for a while now and am excited about the round ball loading. Is there nothing a .457 will not do well?

[Jim]

I have a Gibbs Summit .45-70 bolt rifle. Jarrett, the younger of the two boys in the photo on my signature, calls it my "elephant gun".
I load .457 RBs over a bit or Red Dot, Unique or Bullseye for gallery loads. I bump the RBs to slightly over .460 and then resize them to .460 on the button. Kinda' like a 45 caliber .22 short.

[TCLouis]

So scb what is that"mystery favorite load' with two RBs?

[steg]

LEE got me, LOL, I have a bunch of LEE moulds, and they all cast well. I got the itch to play with round balls in my 45/70, so I went to the Lee site and all they had was .457 round balls, and I ordered it, I was hoping for .460, and every other Lee mould that I own drops at least .002 oversize, so I was figuring on at least .459 which would have been fine, But the way my luck runs it casts at .457, the rifle slugs at 458. Maybe I can give em a little bump................steg

[grampa243]

ok so i tested my round ball load today :D

it's great.

i took a .490 round ball sized it to .457 with a lee sizer and loaded it over 15 grains of UNIQUE. seated just off the rifling.
66702

2 inch group at 50yd with open sights from a t/c encore katahdin.[feels like a heavy .223 load :)]

alox gave less leading then wax and P.jelly.

[Texantothecore]

LEE got me, LOL, I have a bunch of LEE moulds, and they all cast well. I got the itch to play with round balls in my 45/70, so I went to the Lee site and all they had was .457 round balls, and I ordered it, I was hoping for .460, and every other Lee mould that I own drops at least .002 oversize, so I was figuring on at least .459 which would have been fine, But the way my luck runs it casts at .457, the rifle slugs at 458. Maybe I can give em a little bump................steg

Pour some and see how they work. I have the same mold and they work beautifully in my Buff Classic.

[bigted]

grampa...you inspired me as I also have .490 inch lead balls so I ran em thru my .460 lee pushthru die and loaded em over 8 grains unique...will see how they do. im gonna run em without lube first and see what happens. im hopin for way better then 2 inch groups but will see and if my japchester wont shoot em then ill try thru the ruger #1.

ive patched some .440 inch balls but they are a pain in the rump to load and deal with for what I got outta them but will see with these elongated .460's and the unique powder. should be able to get a bunch of em outta the pound of powder and the lead is easy on the supply compared to the 500's I usually run thru my 45-70's. id be able to keep my dwindling supply of GOEX cartridge powder from going into the wind so fast as well.

thanks for the inspiration!...:drinks:

[Texantothecore]

Roundball is so commonly shot by .457 crowd that Bass Pro normally carries a few boxes .458 ball. I cast my own and they work great.

The .457 rifles are complete shooting systems with many alternatives depending on your needs at the moment. It is very much like owning a number of different rifles.

[bigted]

well shot em...THANKS GRAMPS !!!...:awesome:. I went outside and faced the snow fall to shoot these .490 inch shoved thru my .460 Lee push thru die. I loaded them with the described 8 grains of unique.

shot 5 thru the Ruger #1 with the 2x7 Leopold scope...and at 35 yds they all went thru a single hole... way under an inch...second shot I fired I thought I missed the target so walked up to find where it went and there it were in the same hole...just a bit longer on 1 side [barely]. cleaned the bore looking for lead but nice and clean...just powder fouling.

next I drug out the Winchester hunter with the 28 inch barrel...a marples wrist mounted peep with the stock bead up front...[this rifle is seriously picky about what it eats so I shrugged into it with dubious thoughts]...shot em at the target and darned if they didn't group just as tight as the Ruger...[now I cant shoot that good...LOL.]...5 into the same hole just a bit larger in size then the Ruger group.

these are easy to load and cheep to shoot. very small recoil and really accurate...will have to chrony them when we get some calm sunny days.

THANKS Gramps for the suggestion and you should try the .460 inch diameter extruded ball... lee sizer dies are only around 35 dollars... it very well may beat your previous group size. im bettin that the load will harvest squirrel bunnys and grouse with hardly any damage except to put into the pot and enjoy.

[DCP]

38-55 works good also

[shaune1022]

Anybody try 3 or 4 balls in a 357max?

[grampa243]

bigted -- glad to hear you found the fun load.

i forgot to say is i did use alox for my first set. had no fouling to speak of.

i'm trying them with my wax/Pjelly lube next; just rolled on it.

with the 15 grains of UNIQUE it shoots to the same POA as my full power 300/405 grain boolit hunting load.

my bore slugs at .4575 so the lee .457 works great in mine.

p.s. i'm going to try for a better group this time ;) wish the Katahdin had better irons.

[Texantothecore]

ok so i tested my round ball load today :D

it's great.

i took a .490 round ball sized it to .457 with a lee sizer and loaded it over 15 grains of UNIQUE. seated just off the rifling.
66702

2 inch group at 50yd with open sights from a t/c encore katahdin.[feels like a heavy .223 load :)]

That boolit looks exactly like the lead that came out of my rifle when I slugged it with a .490 ball. I was struck at how it might make a good boolit and it looks like you have done it.

[Reverend Al]

Quite a few years ago I worked up a 3 ball load for my .45-70 Browning (Miroku) B-78 single shot High Wall clone. I dropped 10 grains of Unique into the primed case, seated a .45 calibre gas check over the powder charge, then dropped three .445 round balls into the case and used an inverted .45 calibre gas check over the top RB at the mouth of the case. The height of the RB's was just about right to get a nice, light roll crimp at the mouth of the case. They shoot into about a 2 1/2" to 3" group at 100 yards and they're a hoot to shoot. By the way, the reason I don't use .457 round balls for that multi-ball load is because I found out the hard way you shouldn't do that! I tried loading three .457 RB's to see if my rifle would shoot more any more accurately than the three .445 RB's I'd been using previously and got a bit of a shock. (I just happened to have the .445's on hand from a muzzle loader so I used them for my first tests.) The .45-70 case "tore off" at about mid-length (where the gas check and the bottom ball would be located) and it fired all three .457 sized RB's and the front half of the brass cartridge case right out of the barrel just like a one piece jacketed bullet! It cleared the barrel OK and there was no damage to the rifle since that model has a very strong action, but it sure was a lesson well learned. From then on I stuck with a single .457 - .458 RB seated at the mouth of the case, or with the three undersized .445 RB's seated between the two gas checks.
Just thought you might like to know about that little incident before you learn it yourself the hard way ...!

[Sekiar]

After reading how well a 457 round ball works in the 45/70 I gave it a try. I started out with 9 gns of Unique with the ball about 1/2 way in the case. First four did just fine. So I loaded up 10 more and that's when the fun started. First went click whoof and I could see the ball bounce on the ground and a flash of fire at the muzzle. The next one fired as it should. About half of the rest fizzled. I tried moving the ball slightly farther in the case. No improvement noted. In all cases the ball seemed to fit tight and would not easily be moved. I did up the powder load to 10 gns of Unique but no better results were had. I have been reloading 45/70 shells since the mid 60's and even at one time load and shot round balls in my 30-30 with out a problem. I would really like to fix the problem as I have many different 45/70 firearms to enjoy shooting the little round ball. Help will be appreciated. tnx Charles

[DCP]

Try 700x see if that helps



After reading how well a 457 round ball works in the 45/70 I gave it a try. I started out with 9 gns of Unique with the ball about 1/2 way in the case. First four did just fine. So I loaded up 10 more and that's when the fun started. First went click whoof and I could see the ball bounce on the ground and a flash of fire at the muzzle. The next one fired as it should. About half of the rest fizzled. I tried moving the ball slightly farther in the case. No improvement noted. In all cases the ball seemed to fit tight and would not easily be moved. I did up the powder load to 10 gns of Unique but no better results were had. I have been reloading 45/70 shells since the mid 60's and even at one time load and shot round balls in my 30-30 with out a problem. I would really like to fix the problem as I have many different 45/70 firearms to enjoy shooting the little round ball. Help will be appreciated. tnx Charles

[Lucky Joe]

Has anyone tried Trail Boss?

[bigted]

trail boss...hmmm...maybe there is a use for this powder after all. I got a bunch when I didn't know the pressure spike and since then it has languished in the powder cabinet. maybe ill drag it out to see how it works behind this spiffy elongated round ball. great idea and im bettin that the spike will not be anything with something as lite as the round ball load.

[grampa243]

After reading how well a 457 round ball works in the 45/70 I gave it a try. I started out with 9 gns of Unique with the ball about 1/2 way in the case. First four did just fine. So I loaded up 10 more and that's when the fun started. First went click whoof and I could see the ball bounce on the ground and a flash of fire at the muzzle. The next one fired as it should. About half of the rest fizzled. I tried moving the ball slightly farther in the case. No improvement noted. In all cases the ball seemed to fit tight and would not easily be moved. I did up the powder load to 10 gns of Unique but no better results were had. I have been reloading 45/70 shells since the mid 60's and even at one time load and shot round balls in my 30-30 with out a problem. I would really like to fix the problem as I have many different 45/70 firearms to enjoy shooting the little round ball. Help will be appreciated. tnx Charles

sekiar are you getting a good crimp on them? if you don't have a good crimp that can make for odd ignition ; even more so with reduced loading.

[Sekiar]

I'll check and see if I can increase the crimp. That may just be what's needed. Thanks, Charles

[Michael J. Spangler]

Tagged for notes

[Zim]

I use floral foam - the green water absorbing stuff - cut thin & cookie cuttered into the case. Use the eraser end of a #2 pencil to seat it down the case to contain the powder. The stuff shrinks when heated, so it disappears.

Eliminates the position sensitive flash whoofs.

[PB234]

Zim, how thin do you cut the foam and how tight against the powder do you push it? thanks

[Sekiar]

Grampa243 you are right on the light crimp. Loaded 10 more with a good crimp and shot in my Encore short barrel(18) carbine and WOW what a difference that made. Need to crony the loads as the little carbine kicked back a little. Will load more and try in one of the long barrel rifles...and then in my BFR revolver. Thanks!

[Zim]

As thin as possible on the floral foam. The stuff makes a mess so do it outside. Sharp knife is less messy than a saw. Don't worry if it cracks, you just need it in one piece.

Push with the pencil until it crunches slightly. Should stay in place at that point. I push it til I feel the crunch & know its on the powder. Works well.

This works great in straight walled cases.

[grampa243]

i don't believe the floral foam will work in the 45-70 as it is a tapered case not a straight wall.

[Zim]

The floral foam works great for me. I use it alot with powders that don't fill the case that much. Try it.

[bigted]

well I have found a load for the cans of 'trail boss' powder I have...20.5 grains of the stuff with 2 felt wads 1/8th inch thick loaded under these sized .490 inch balls to .460 inch. they pop when the trigger is pulled and they also pile up thru the same hole at the 35 yard short range in my front yard. what fun...lubed with Lee allox lube ... [ I lube em in a baggie with several drops of lee's allox and roll em around till all are lubed and remove and allow to set overnight to set up for a easy lube job ] ... they don't lead my hiwall and really perform well accuracy wise....just reporting in on a very fun and satisfying load.

[Lucky Joe]

Thanks Ted, I haven't had the chance to do anything with my Trail Boss and my .45-70's. Soon as it stops raining and I get a few projects taken care of it's a go.

[grampa243]

updated post 45.

roundball coated in alox didn't lead much.

i tried waxing the sized ones before loading most of the wax came off when seating in the case. and the waxed ones leaded the barrel more than anything i have shot in my 45-70 before even commercial cast bullets.

[doctorggg]

69877

Tried this round today. The uppermost shot was a called flyer. The one just out of the group at 6 o'clock was the fastest shot out of 10. Load was 15 grains Unique with no filler or wad. 2 coats 45-45-10.
Average 10 shots 1612 fps for a 192 grain boolit. .495 sized to .460. Hi shot 1668, lo 1558. Sd-32.6, es-110. I did get some moderate leading but it was removed easily. This load is really fun to shoot. Group (9 shots) minus bullet diameter = 1.4" at 25 yards.

[grampa243]

bump to the top

[Zubley]

I use 6grs Trail Boss ,410 wad,three .357 balls and milk carton wad to hold it in than crimp.

[f350 caster]

Do you fellas use a filler between the powder and ball? Seems a whole lot of space for only a little bit of powder otherwise. Thanks for the help.

[Michael J. Spangler]

i was wondering if a whole bunch of cream of wheat would make for a good filler and offer better results than a tuft of dacron?
sees like you could seat the ball with a little compression (which would help with seating depth consistency)
seems to me like that would give better ignition that the dacron.

[doctorggg]

If you read my above thread on 5/18/2013 you notice the extreme spread is very high at 110 fps. I plan on using a filler next time I shoot this. My thoughts might be a fiber wad over the powder followed by cow or grits.

[nanuk]

Lee round ball mold casts at 147 gr. with WWts. used WW cases and Lrprimers.
Ruger #3 22 in brl. 3x9 scope. Ball seated flush with case neck.

10.0 Gr. Unique ..1235..1249..1274 fps.....3 shots/ 100 yds...2.0 inch

2 x Round ball Load at 294 grains
14.8 gr. Unique...1472..1489..1498 fps....3 shots/ 100yds /6 holes in 5 inch square.

One rnd ball seated " over" 1.5 gr. Bullseye...466...461..440 fps ...3 shots/25 yds/1.40 inch.

2 ball load at 1480fps would make a DANDY BAMBI load for tree stand hunting

[Kermit1945]

Lee 90384, IIRC. It's the 220 gr conical intended for the Ruger Old Army. Supposed to be .456, buy mine dropped .457. Can't remember the load any more, buy it was dang accurate in the #3 I used to have.