Serrated Triggers and blasphemy

[Petrol & Powder]

I hate serrated trigger faces on any gun but I particularly hate them on double action revolvers. I’ve never understood why they are considered an improvement, even for single action work. Not once in my life has my finger slid off the trigger and careened into an adjacent snowbank. Maybe some people feel safer with the extra traction provided by a serrated trigger, studded grips and snow chains on their speed loaders but I prefer to live on the edge.

I routinely round and polish the trigger face on double action revolvers. However, I currently find myself on the horns of a dilemma (a domesticated Dilemma not one of those wild ones you see on National Geographic ;-)). I have a pristine revolver with a serrated trigger. It has the, I guess,…. “Target hammer and trigger”?
OK, I can get the target hammer has a larger spur to aid in single action use. The serrated trigger offers nothing for me. I don’t want to butcher a perfect older S&W revolver and I don’t wish to swap parts out just so that I can put it back to factory condition someday.
Is it pure blasphemy to suggest that perhaps......... S&W screwed up the trigger when they made it?
Perhaps in it was done for marketing reasons and not functionality? If so, it wouldn’t be a cardinal sin to correct that small design flaw; would it? I mean if done with respect and care.

Burning a US flag in protest is disgraceful but disposing of a worn US flag by honorable burning is proper. Therefore, grinding and polishing a Smith &Wesson trigger during an honorable ceremony would be perceived as appropriate.....?

:drinks:

[ReloaderFred]

I've always smoothed and contoured my S&W double action triggers, as I too don't care for the serrations. The best trigger S&W ever produced was their "Combat Trigger" in the late 1970's and early 80's. It was a compromise between the narrow standard trigger and the wide Target Trigger, and it was smooth on it's face. It just took a little work on the edges to round them to a comfortable contour so they could be shot properly with either hand. I don't know if they still offer the Combat trigger, or not, since all my Smiths are older ones, with the exception of one Model 629 with an 8 3/8" barrel.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Larry Gibson]

I'm another who hates serrated triggers on DA revolvers. I have been grinding them smooth and polishing them for years. Call me blasphemous also........

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

I guess I'll join the club too. As a dyed in the wool DA shooter from my police days (even for 50 yards and further) I really like a smoothly faced trigger (and smooth action). While at the range yesterday I reinforced that predilection. While it wasn't too big a problem and targets still fell, trying to shoot a friends Model 29-2 with a wide and grooved SA target trigger in the DA just didn't feel right.

I may end up buying that Model 29 as it proved to be tight and accurate and it's for sale, but if I do, you can bet the trigger will get trimmed and smoothed.

My favorite S&W trigger is the factory "Combat Trigger" as it's a bit wider than a smoothed standard trigger, but is still narrow enough for good DA shooting.

[pworley1]

It's your Smith do with it as you please. The next owner will probably either not know the difference, or appreciate your efforts.

[Petrol & Powder]

It's your Smith do with it as you please. The next owner will probably either not know the difference, or appreciate your efforts.

I agree and have no problem with doing what I want to my guns. I just don't want to be "that guy". You know; the one people talk about when they say, "It was a great gun until that guy ruined it by...."

[EMC45]

I grind and polish every Smith trigger I get. The only way AFAIC.

[Ramar]

I hate to make permanent changes and some times I'll buy an extra part to modify and keep the original for down the road time and when it can go back in. This may be a carry-over from my streetrodding of original antique cars to make them my way for me and save the running gear for the next owner. I too, modify the serrated triggers but fill the grooves with epoxy and sand smooth. No thinner just smoother...
Ramar

[bhn22]

I have a brand new Stainless S&W trigger for K,L, & N frames if anybody needs one. I bought it to replace a hard chrome trigger in an early Mountain Gun, but I never fitted it. It's a smooth face.

[osteodoc08]

I love the smooth face on my 686

[JSnover]

Unless it's rare/unique/collectible, why not smooth it up?

[Petrol & Powder]

It's not rare or unique and I use it so it probably doesn't qualify as collectible.

[Rick Hodges]

I'm with you, smooth double action triggers are the way to go. Many years ago I was issued a Model 66 with a grooved trigger....about tore the end of my trigger finger off trying to master double action shooting. The 'smith at the academy range took it out and smoothed it...end of problem.

[imashooter2]

What would you really lose making your gun the way you want it to be? Customize it. Make it yours. Enjoy it for years. That's the real value.

[Petrol & Powder]

It seems I have received the approval to do what I was going to do anyway. Maybe it isn't blasphemy after all?

[DLCTEX]

I don't own any safe queens. Any I come up with get turned into cash as my guns are all tools that I use and most are used hard. I plan to use them harder in the future. I hope to pass them on in a well used condition. If modifying will make it better for my use, then it will be modified. If anyone is bothered by my intention to modify it then pay me what I want for it or keep your opinion to yourself, it's mine. I do try to take care of my guns and keep them looking good and working perfectly, but when I'm done they will reflect my tastes and visions of what they should be. If that bothers someone, sorry, this one is mine. I will not vocalize this openly or retort to comments, but just simply ignore and move on unless someone gets pushy. That's just me.

[William Yanda]

I don't own any safe queens. Any I come up with get turned into cash as my guns are all tools that I use and most are used hard. I plan to use them harder in the future. I hope to pass them on in a well used condition. If modifying will make it better for my use, then it will be modified. If anyone is bothered by my intention to modify it then pay me what I want for it or keep your opinion to yourself, it's mine. I do try to take care of my guns and keep them looking good and working perfectly, but when I'm done they will reflect my tastes and visions of what they should be. If that bothers someone, sorry, this one is mine. I will not vocalize this openly or retort to comments, but just simply ignore and move on unless someone gets pushy. That's just me.

If we ask nicely, would you please tell us how you really feel?-read this in sarcasim pink or or irony lavender or any color you choose.

[Bzcraig]

It's not rare or unique and I use it so it probably doesn't qualify as collectible.


There ya go! And if you are feeling a bit squeeze about it keep it and fit a smooth one in there.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not to drift too far away, but does anyone know Why S&W grooved triggers?

[BCB]

I never really noticed this fact with handgun triggers…

I do quite a bit of handgun shooting, but probably not to the intensity as others. I just shoot at some homemade steel targets at 50 yards or less…

I’ve shot a couple of deer, but it isn’t a life and death ordeal for me…

My SRH, Blackhawk, and Single-Six are smooth. My old Security-Six is serrated…

Now to my question: What is the advantage of the serrated or the smooth triggers?...

Thanks…BCB

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Petrol & Patrol, If you run for office on a platform condemning serrated triggers and vow to have them polished smooth on double action revolvers I'll vote for you.

[KCSO]

Shooting double action with a revolver is a different action than single action target shooting as we found out as we switched to PPC in the late 60's. For double action you want the trigger to be as slick as possible so the joint and pad of your finger will slide over the trigger smoothly. For single action you are, if you hold as taught, using just the front pad of the finger and pulling as straight back as possible about 1/8" and bang. When we all shot bullseye the wide grooved trigger was seen as decreasing felt pull and gave a constant placement on the trigger.

Back in about 71 or 72 we started taking the Smith target trigger and polishing them smooth and cutting them a bit narrower and or scores shooting double went up. This got popular enough that on the 586 they came with a medium width smooth trigger, the best one Smith ever used. IIRR Elmer even commented on this in print. Now days the wide groved trigger is seldom seen as so few folks shoot real he man bullseye competition any more. Even my pathetic attempts at stand up shooting are limited to muzzleloading pistol now days and if I hit a score of 90 I dance for joy. But I remember when I had a K22 and a K 38 in the box and thought the wide grooved triggers were the cats meow. Now it's kind of a moot point as most of my shooting is with semi autos.

[kenyerian]

Yep. KCSO is spot on the History of the S&W trigger. Reading his post made me realize that I miss my old K22 and should buy another one to replace the one I traded off back in the early 70's. propably need another 586 also. Gun Broker here I come.

[Ramar]

Petrol & Powder, "Not to drift too far away, but does anyone know Why S&W grooved triggers?"

My thought was a "serrated and wider" trigger was for match competition. A serrated trigger helps keep the finger pad locked on a spot for a direct rearward motion and helps to prevent the finger from moving off that spot causing side pressure and an inconsistent grip.
Ramar

[bedbugbilly]

I'm a "member of the club" too . . . most of my shooting for 50 years was with Colt clone/Remington clone SA cap and ball revolvers - all have smooooooth triggers. Now that I'm shooting new fangled cartridge guns . . . I have some vintage Smiths that I love to shoot - several do not have smooth triggers. Somehow, though, I just can't bring myself to smooth the face of the triggers . . . I know . . . it's a "hang up" but I just can't do it. So, I just tolerate them.

That said though . . . I don't think I've have purchased one vintage Smith but one that has had the original grips on it. Now mine are primarily "shooters" and a couple are only what I'd consider marginally "collectible" . . . so why do we do that (change out and often loose the original grips) but can't bring ourselves to smooth the trigger face off? Hmm . . sounds like I have an "alteration complex"? The only cure that I can see is to buy another Smith? :-)

[Scharfschuetze]

Ramar,

As noted by KCSO above, a grooved trigger helps with the single action trigger pull and that was "The Way" to shoot a revolver in the old 2700 NRA bullseye matches as well as in much of the police training prior to the 70s. When more realistic training regimes and PPC competition started to replace the 2700 style of shooting, double action trigger manipulation became much more common and for that, a smooth trigger is generally considered the way to go.

A smooth and narrow trigger, in theory, allows the trigger finger to slip, to some extent, across the face of the trigger while it is pulling the trigger back through its rather long and heavy pull. This allows the marksman to keep the revolver directed at his target a bit better. Much of what is done in the firearms industry is based on tradition and that's probably why S&W continued/continues to groove the triggers.

Another advantage of a smooth trigger is that it is a lot easier on the skin of your finger when shooting high recoiling ammo or shooting a lot of ammo over a day. The sharply grooved S&W triggers could certainly rough up your skin when firing DA with magnum ammo or after a day shooting the 150 round PPC course of fire along with a 60 round service pistol match.

So which trigger? For single action shooters, the grooved and wider trigger is still the go to option. For double action shooters (most old LEOs fall into this category) the smooth and narrow trigger is what is called for.

And yes bedbugbilly, I often wonder what happened to all the original S&W grips that were so nicely made from good quality wood. By the way, the most popular of the S&W grips, the target grip, was designed for SA shooters and is not the best design for DA shooting. Go figure.

[KCSO]

Well up until the mid to late 1960's most Police departments still shot bullseye to qualify. Police Departments were the biggest buyers of double action revolvers with IIRR 78% of the departments shoting smith and wesson's. The grooved triggers were standard issue as that's what the shooters demanded from about 1920 on. The smooth triggere in the OLD FASHIONED single and double action revolvers were thought of as old and cheap. Smooth triggers were predominant on H and R and other cheap guns and the good Colt and S and W's had grooved triggers.

[Ramar]

Scharfschuetzer- Thanks for the help. I'm still single action and don't think double action. When I get to 2700 then I'll play the DA game...maybe? Thanks again!
Ramar

[Petrol & Powder]

Petrol & Patrol, If you run for office on a platform condemning serrated triggers and vow to have them polished smooth on double action revolvers I'll vote for you.

I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of the polished trigger party.

[Petrol & Powder]

.................... Hmm . . sounds like I have an "alteration complex"? The only cure that I can see is to buy another Smith? :-)

Seems like the only appropriate cure :wink:

[Treeman]

I'm a collecting shooter not a "puristt" collector. I like buying guns with improvements like smooth triggers.

[30calflash]

KCSO summed it up well on post 22.

For those who do not want to modify or purchase a different trigger you can place a piece of tape over the trigger face and it will serve you well. I did this to an A/M trigger on my 1911 bullseye gun and it took the 'sharpness' of the outside edge of the trigger away. That 'digging' into the pad of my finger made me nuts in slow fire!

I seem to do well with the narrow serrated trigger or the smooth one for double action firing. The wide one doesn't work too well. YMMV.

[jonp]

I've had a couple of serrated triggers on my handguns and always scratched my head at what they were for.

[Fire_Medic]

While I can relate to this issue P&P, my experience with serrated triggers applies to semi autos. I have always taken my Glock pistols and swapped in a smooth face trigger if it didn't come with one from the factory. For me that's a standard "upgrade" as the serrated triggers are just uncomfortable in high round count sessions.

Fast forward to when I recently acquired my "new to me" K38 and the wide serrated trigger it has on it is about the only thing I do not care for. I will be searching for info on smoothing it up but assuming since it metal my dremel should help get the smoothing job done in short order.