Which Large Bore Magnum For Cast?

[Three44s]

I am looking for recommendations on which large bore magnum would be best for cast?

I have a penchant for the .338 Win Mag. and have a bunch of cases and dies but no rifle.

I have a bunch of Norma (unused) brass for the .358 Norma mag .... no dies .... no rifle. For a rifle I had thought about a custom 98 but alas, the Savage 11X series and a barrel made up makes sense to me ....... at least dollar wise.

I also have a yearning for a .45 something ........... maybe the .458 win mag. Don't have the "pot nor the window" for that one yet .....ie. no dies ..... no cases!

The first two cartridges would be grand if they did cast too but it's not absolutely necessary.

I would not be interested in the .458 UNLESS I cast for that one.

Thoughts ....... suggestions ....... admonishments?

Thanks

Three 44s

[jhrosier]

I have a Ruger #1 in .375 H&H that shoots cast bullets very well.
I keep the velocities down as I am more interested in where the boolit goes than how fast it gets there.

Jack

[waksupi]

Well, I could sell you a .458 Win Mag, M70 win, for a high, but unreasonable price, along with dies, and cases.

Aside from that, I would suggest you look into a .35 Whelen, or if you want something closer to efficient bore size, (anyone who knows me is expecting this), a .358 Winchester. Al shoots a 9.2 somethin' or other that would also be a good larger bore selection.

When you get into the belted magnums, you are into higher brass prices, and searching for a powder slow enough to shoot efficiently in the bigger cases. I never had any luck in my old M70 .338 win Mag, but I know BruceB has made his perform quite well.

[454PB]

I shoot cast in my .338 Ruger, and it does OK. However, the short neck is a problem, I don't like having a gas check down below the neck.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

9,3x62...like a .366" Whelen with a fast enough twist to shoot 300gr bullets.

Rich

[Bass Ackward]

The only reason to "build" a magnum caliber cast launcher is because you want to launch cast at higher velocities. This is because the case volume will work against you for low range efficiency. On the other hand, why would you build a bore diameter this large to shoot lead at cast velocities anyway if you didn't already own it? These bore diameters are for hunting.

My next rifle WILL be a 358 Norma with a 26", 15 twist, cut rifled barrel. With this, I only expect to gain 200-300 fps over my Whelen with 250 grain and up slugs. But this will still keep me in the 2300 to 2500 fps range which really aids trajectory and wind deflection more than anything else.

The heaviest bullets in a caliber will mean longer bullets. Therefore, of the caliber you mention, my next two would be the 375 bore and THEN the 338 last of all. My recoil limit was shown to me by my 458X2, so I wouldn't even contemplate adding the 1/2" back personally.

IF I was going to buy a factory rifle to shoot cast, I might look at the 375 Ruger, but cases will always be a premium.

[rockrat]

You could also look at the 350rem mag, but the short neck would also be iffy. 35 Welen would be best for shooting heavy boolits at reasonable velocities. 375 H&H is a good cast boolit shooter (also in my #1).

How about a .416 Rem, to split the differences between the 375 and 458?

Along those lines, for a non-magnum, you could go with a 405 win. or possibly one of the Ruger #1 rifles in 9.3 x 74R. Bit less than a 375 H&H, but you could still push a 285gr boolit over 2300fps, probalby closer to 2500fps if you had to, in the strong #1 action.

If you gotta have a 45 cal, why not a 45-70 or 450 marlin? Probably bring tears to your eyes at full throttle on either, with the recoil. 45-70 brass would be easiest to buy.

Don't know what kind of rifle you are looking for, but you could get an T/C Encore and different barrels or buy one of the NEF 45-70 guns. Understand the NEF guns do pretty well in 45-70 and cast.

[BruceB]

G'day, all.

The main reason I shoot cast bullets in my .404 and .416 Rigby rifles is simply that I HAVE the rifles. They were obtained for hunting Wood Bison in completely-wild bushland, where there are literally thousands of square miles of range and no fences whatever. This meant that the rifle should be capable of downing these huge animals with NO uncertainty about the results.

Large-caliber rifles are very effective with cast bullets, but there is a price to pay in the recoil department if one tries to approach factory performance. For cast-bullet HUNTING, they're great, and probably much better than smaller calibers. For fun shooting at lower speeds, the heavy bullets use up alloy much quicker, and the rifles still possess substantial recoil. But...I like them.

The .338 has given me a lot of "entertainment" as I try to get decent results. After testing at least five different cast designs in the Model 70, I find that the Lee 338-220 is the best performer to date by a considerable margin. On one well-remembered occasion, it placed TEN of the Lees in 15/16" from 100 yards. Nothing else has even come close to that. Note that Lee has recently gone to 2-cavity moulds for many rifle bullets. i'm going to replace my one-holer pretty soon!

I'd go along with the suggestions for a .35-caliber rifle. My choice would be the .35 Whelen, because it offers a lot of flexibility with both cast and jacketed loads. Legions of handgun-bullet designs are available for trials as well as the rifle types, the brass is available and can also be made from .30-06 cases, and the bullets are heavy enough for reliable cast-bullet hunting results. Dacron fill will cover most concerns about excessive case capacity.

The .45-70 is great fun to shoot and study, but the Whelen offers more flexibility, I believe. From what I hear about the #1 in .45-70, there are some concerns about the chamber design which need to be addressed when loading for it. The .458 #1 is MUCH heavier than the .45-70 version, but the chamber is easier to work with.

[Three44s]

Thanks much to all,

I have bought "just for lead" guns in a handful of Mosins and 8mm Mausers but have not played with them yet (in lead) ....... my casting foray for about 12 years has been with wheel guns.

I have a broken stocked original Trap Door in .45-70 and if I live long enough to find enough time I plan on getting something done with it. It's a "family herloom" in the rough ..... we are an old old cattle ranch here in Central Wa. Also, I have a working .25-35 in Win. 94 ... our old sheep herding rifle ....... YEAH, we are sheep herders too if you go back prior to '41 ....... jokes are welcome.

But, since I read Ross Seyfried's article on "Soft Nosed Cast" ....... I have had a hankering for a big hard pushing thumper and soft nosed cast. When our local gunsmith sold out he had a bunch of new Norma cases in .358 Norma ...... they walked home with me.

But I am not trapped in this. My wife and I have two 7mm Rem mags. Oh sure it would be a job ...... but I have bunch of Imperial die sizing wax.

It sounds like with the .358 Norma case necking up to .375 might be better for cast? Or if I stick with .35 bore use the excellent .35 Whelen?

My other thought is to buy a Savage rifle in say .338 win mag. ........ and from the advice here stick with J-words in that barrel. And get other barrels in different chamberings for cast.

One of other question: Does anybody sell or make a different safety switch for the Savage turn bolts ...... I find that dinky outfit hard to reach tucked up under a scope bell etc. ...... ??

I do like tang mounted safeties ........ as a south paw raised on RH rifles ...... they suit me but a different button would be appreciated.

Thanks All

Three 44s

[Lloyd Smale]

had a #1 458 and it was FUN? shooting 500s at about 1900 fps!! Shot lots of the ballistic cast 540 wfngc bullets at those speeds and i swear you can feel them hit the ground!! that gun was a very accurate cast bullet shooter and shot about any load well

[charger 1]

maybe the .458 win mag.


Three 44s



NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO,,,,That was a loud yell if you didnt hear it

Shooting cast in a wm is a excercise in how to turn a magnum into a glorified fly killer. due to what I call the funnel throat, you shoot em slow, hard ,and long. Preferably all three. Go Lott and be done. I've played with both. The lott is still here, the two wm's are gone

[9.3X62AL]

As can be discerned from my nom de plume, I am a VERY happy owner of a CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 Mauser. It might be the best cast boolit rifle I own. Asking whether it is "better" than the 35 Whelen is like asking whether the 30-06 "betters" the 270--any difference in real-world hunting potential is found between the ears and behind the eyes of the believer, and ONLY there.

There are more 35 Whelen variants now available than there were in 2002 when I bought the CZ in 9.3 x 62. If I had it to do today, it would be VERY hard to steer away from one of those Rem 700 CDL's in 35 Whelen. The several CDL's I've seen are all classic, gorgeous rifles. I'm not a real enthusiast for "pretty" rifles, but those CDL's get my heart ALL STARTED UP.

Speaking against the 45-70 is akin to dissing Clint Eastwood or John Wayne. Considering what is paid for the rifle platform received.......a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 is a stone bargain. They use more lead per shot than a 35 Whelen of 9.3 x 62, but when you run these calibers at the upper end of their velocity potential the net effect is like a speed-limit on a mountain road.......self-maintaining by nature. You won't be shooting any of these in prarie-dog-hunt fashion like a 223.

[Three44s]

It would hard for me to pick on a CZ of any persuasion. I have a 527 American and have been a fan of single set triggers for a long time.

I will have to add the 9.3 bore to my thoughts as well.

Three 44s

[Marlin Junky]

If you have an Encore frame, Midway has 14" twist .35 Whelen barrels on sale:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=153067&t=11082005

MJ

[Three44s]

MJ,

Thanks ...... I don't have any Thompson frames ......... (yet) ......... but I did notice that sale.

I know that Contender, G2, and Encore have relative advantages and disadvantages to each other. But I get confused to which has the best trigger.

It's the Contender .........?

If so, how much behind is the Encore?

Thanks

Three 44s

[Marlin Junky]

Three44's,

Lots of good T/C info here:

http://www.bellmtcs.com/

MJ

[PatMarlin]

Three44s...

You sure have some beautiful country up there. We were near there during thanksgiving, visited a friend in Sunnyside, then headed up to Edwall.

I've had my thoughts on the 375 H&H. I have a nice Ruger #1 in 300 Win mag, and I've been thinking about having it rebored.

I think for a cast shooter, that maybe a good move.. :Fire:

[Three44s]

PatMarlin,

Thank you for your kind words about my State. Did you get over the Cascades or stay just on the Eastside. ........ ? We have too many liberals in the Seattle area ..... other than that ....... I think we are lucky ...... lots of resources and different things to do.

Yes, the venerable 375 H&H ........ I had brass ....... sold to a friend who's mother-in-law bought him a Ruger #1 in that cartridge. But kept the dies ...... just in case.

I shot his rifle ..... two rounds ........ definitely not "tooling around in the park" on a Sunday afternoon ......... and that was full house J-words .......... but if something was trying to do "field surgery" on me ......... I would not have even thought it kicked. Loading for cast would likely improve on that.

I have read that they have a tendency unlike most other cartridges to shoot different weight bullets to the same point of impact ...... that coupled with it's tenacious performance inspite of being nearly a Centurian ........ leaves one in AWE!

I am picturing a soft nosed cast bullet here ......... lol ........... and someone reading a newpaper through the hole it makes ......... !

Three 44s

[PatMarlin]

We stayed on the east side.

Shot up across the canyon on the Columbia from Portland towards Yakima, then took a right to Sunnyside. Then up to Edwall.

Our friends in Edwall mentioned the libs towards the west. They are glad they don't live there.

Same with California. They are an inbarrasment to our great states.. :roll:

[charger 1]

which large bore magnum

Three 44s


Did you ever get your answer?

[Three44s]

Thanks for asking Charger 1,

I would say I got more than I bargained for.

I expected cartridge suggestions and some reasoning behind those suggestions ...... and that was the case.

What I did not expect was such thoughful explainations as the reasoning behind each suggeston.

A truely fine and useful forum .......... this "Boolit Forum"!

My surprise was the thoughts on the .338 Win mag.

According to the Lyman Cast Bullet book their sample worked quite well .......... but, at best ........ BruceB refered to it as quite a challenge.

Me thinks I will figure on it for J-words ..... If I end up with one, I would try some cast but not knock myself out over it.

I was leaning alos towards a .358 Norma Mag. ....... the .35 Whelen and .358 Win got better endorsements for boolits. And the logic for this is not lost on me.

Thanks to 9.3X62AL, I have a greater appreciation of the 9.3mm ........

Pat Marlin is thinking about a .375 H&H ............. the length of that case and powder position would seem to be at odds about like the .358 Norma ..... so I would have to think on that one for a spell ........... but a grand cartridge none the less.

The biggest surprise was the less than glowing thoughts on the .458 Win mag. ...... the throating issue was something I was not aware of. I dodged a big one there!

In light of what I have learned thanks to you good folks ...... I wonder about a .375/ .358 Norma mag ???????

It would be a shorter case than the original parent ....... (the H&H case) and with a .375 bore instead of a .358 it would be less over bore for cast. I think those new Norma 358 Norma mag cases could be encouraged to go there.

One thing about it ........ I have much time ............... I have a passal of MN's and 24/47 Mausers that I have barely touched much less cast for. And I dare not "hurt" my revolver's feelings either ......... LOL!!!

Three 44s

[HABCAN]

I am not one who enjoys having his teeth rattled, so all my big magnums have gone down the road. That said, when I had them I shot cast (for practice) and j's interchangeably at full-bore, and did not notice much difference in accuracy. One shot as well or as poorly as the other, my bad. The .375 H&H was the hands-down winner in flexibility: it did not care what you fed it and everything landed in the same hole to as far away as you'd reasonably shoot it. Next was the .458 Win. Mag., trailed quite a ways back by the .338. I don't doubt proper accurate comfortable loads could be tailored for each with cast, but if I had to repeat the process today I'd select a .375 H&H and the LEE mould and ignore the others. What a wonderful cartridge!!!

[Three44s]

Thanks for the input HABCAN,

Well, it does not sound like the long case of the .375 H&H was an issue for your cast boolits .... though you were loading heavy for both J-words and boolits.

If I went with a turn bolt .... I would have to use a longer action with the H&H ..... I would like to stick with a standard long but I can ponder this.

The Ruger #1 would negate that issue.

I am also thinking about a switch barrel affair. That's why I was bouncing between a Mauser or a Savage turn bolt. The Savage being the easiest.

And in standard long actions ......... the thought of a .375 bore but use my Norma 358 Norma cases ...... (I have nearly 300 new ones) and a bunch of used but good .338 cases ..... comes to mind.

Anybody have any experience or knowledge of a .375/ standard magnum case wildcat? Particularily with boolits?

Three 44s

[frank505]

I've got to toss my two cent's worth in this discussion. Large bores are easier to load for and get good results with than smaller stuff. I have shot the 375H&H, 458, 45/70, 450 Alaskan,30/30, 30-06, 308, 35 Alaskan,416 Taylor and the magnificent 505 Gibbs with cast bullets. We have killed many animals with cast bullets, many more than with "J" bullets. I cannot see where we are lacking anything except maybe range, and I always get closer like a REAL HUNTER does. I really liked the 458 for cast, but my favorite was a custom made by myself without the funnel throat. The Ruger 77, the Ruger #1, the Model 70 push feed all shot cast especially the 462560. The best thing about the 458 as your only rifle shooting cast is, you should never think you need more power, you have in your hands about all you need for whatever. It can be loaded with round balls for special times(quiet). The 450 Alaskan is about as good, but not very available. The 45/70 is wonderful in a trap door, I am not much of a fan when it loaded beyond reason in a Marlin. Try them all, you can make up your own mind after several thousand rounds and some seasons afield.

[Three44s]

Frank505,

Have you or anyone else tried the soft nosed cast technique on larger game?

***********

I see that the wildcat I refered to is actually called the 375 Taylor ........ ie. .375/.338 Win mag.

Three 44s

[frank505]

We have tried the soft nose cast on bison heifers from a 45 Colt, a 310 Keith at 1200 fps. Made the quickest kill so far with similar shot placement. I have made some soft nose rifle bullets but have not tried them on anything yet. I suspect they will act similar to a regular cast rifle bullet, where the nose blows off in the chest cavity and the base ends up in the skin on exit or even goes through. The 405 WCF 310 gas checks we have recovered in bison weigh about 150 grains and end up stuck in the hide on exit. This is up to six year old bulls weighing about 1800 lbs. The heifers weigh 850 to 900 and are much narrower through the shoulders than the bulls but the results are about the same, because of the hide acting like a trampoline.
I would reccomend the 416 Taylor over a 375, dies from Lee are $25 and come with an expander plug to make even a 7mm mag case useful. I have never been impressed by the 375 on cattle or bison. Our rule for bison hunts is the caliber must start with the number 4, period. One of the slowest kills was a 375 and 300 grain silvertips and a 300 grain solid will not follow the front sight in a straight line in cattle so what the hell good is it? We have tried them in a 375 and a 378. I made some brass solids for the 416 and killed a 3 year old bull (1629 lbs) last year with definitive results. The first shot was placed as he was quartering towards me, between the front legs so as to not ruin so much meat. On taking the hit from a 325 grain brass bullet shaped just my 410 grain lead gas check, all four legs did something. The near hind leg actually went parallel to the ground! It sure impressed us and not much does anymore. Of course the bullet exited and plowed about 3 foot of frozen ground and then bounced out somewhere. Oh, muzzle velocity is 2475 fps, on receipt of the second shot, since he was still on his feet, he collapsed and rolled over. Now it gets exciting, walked up, touched an eyeball, no reaction. Presumably dead, right? Hiked back to the truck and drove up the the animal to begin dressing and he starts to get up!! 500 L put 450 grain Keith through back of skull and now is pronounced dead by everybody we could think of to ask. I got to keep the skull and it hangs in my living room as a neat reminder of an interesting day.

[PatMarlin]

"One of the slowest kills was a 375 and 300 grain silvertips and a 300 grain solid will not follow the front sight in a straight line in cattle so what the hell good is it?"

Have you tried cast with the 375 on cattle, and not sure what you mean by "300 grain solid will not follow the front sight in a straight line"?

[frank505]

never tried 375 cast on cattle. the 375 Hornady solid will not stay in straight line. when you aim to break the exit shoulder and the bullet exits way of course it means the bullet will not follow the front sight. we have tried that bullet on lots of dead charlois cattle, and cannot get them to go in straight line. the same for the few that are alive but need to be dead. we watched "tracks across africa" this am and our hero with his 375 ruger and a solid ended up trailing a bull for THREE DAYS befroe finding alive and finally killing it. the first hit looked ok but i'll bet it the bullet let him down. they did not show the hits on the animal or post mortum the bullet tracks because it might offend a show sponsor, never mind it might get somebody killed.

[PatMarlin]

Not trying to flame or be picky here Frank, just trying to learn something.

So did you mean to write "exits way off course" insead of of?

So is it the trajectory of the bullet you speak of once it leaves the barrel, or the angle it leaves once it enters the animal?

What range we talkin?

...:drinks:

[MtGun44]

I have wondered if the flat meplat is what is causing some of these
cast boolits to drive so straight through large animals? I have read
of the 405 Corbon solid in .45-70 penetrating far beyond what would
be expected at 1650 fps, and it has a large meplat (jacketed).

Is the veering solid a round nose and do you think this is the reason?

Bill

[charger 1]

I have wondered if the flat meplat is what is causing some of these
cast boolits to drive so straight through large animals? I have read
of the 405 Corbon solid in .45-70 penetrating far beyond what would
be expected at 1650 fps, and it has a large meplat (jacketed).

Is the veering solid a round nose and do you think this is the reason?

Bill


HOLD THE PHONE

That sounds quite reasonable, however that being the case would we not then also have to say that boolits with large flats are less likely knocked off course irregardless of the medium. In other words, they cut a straighter line through brush

[longhorn]

I'm no expert on solids, but I still daydream of Africa.....current thought among gunny PH's and safari types is that solids with a small flat nose are much more reliably straight-line penetrators than round-nose solids. IIRC, Taylor's _African Rifles and Cartridges_ repeatedly makes the point that "bluff" nosed solids were more reliable than round nosed ones....... If I needed to shoot a bison with my .375, I believe I'd be using a Nosler Partition or a Barnes TSX.

[PatMarlin]

I was reading JJHack's website over off of 24hour Campfire, an it was interesting to note he prefers and only uses the 30-06 and the 375 ouch & ouch for all game on his african safaris of which is his business as a guide.

[Nardoo]

I have tried cast in my .338 WM with so so results. I found some accurate loads but it was not as flexible as other cartridges. I have used cast in my .375H&H and it loved them, shooting very uniformly across a range of loads and even better to similar points of impact.

But I also load cast bullets in three rifles with parallel walled cases, the .375Win, 45/70 and the 45/90 and they are the easiest and most satisfying of all. They seem to be better balanced as they are a snack to load for and shoot.

My choice would be a 38/55 or 45/70.

Nardoo

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd be buying a spare stock for the trapdoor and carefully storing the old one away and shooting lead in that. Smile factor has to be seen to be believed, especially with a family heirloom.

[James C. Snodgrass]

I bought a Lott in a #1 for the purpose of flexability,You can always slow the big ones down easier than over stressing a 45/70. I think there is so many more 458 molds available than about anything else IE: all the BPCR shooters have caused a lot of devopement in that arena. So you can get 45/70 velocity or the amount of shoulder you have is the limit:-D I do like the variety, also you can in a pinch shoot 458WM in a Lott because of the belted case being the same as a rimmed case . I make my brass from Hornady belted basic it's about 35% cheaper than Lott head stamped brass from same. Good luck & good shootin' James

[charger 1]

I make my brass from Hornady belted basic it's about 35% cheaper than Lott head stamped brass from same. Good luck & good shootin' James


And if you blow out 375 H&H of the RP manufacture you actually get a malluable enough brass to shoot a few times

[Uncle Grinch]

Three 44's,

I had the same desire or quest several years back (looking for a large bore magnum for cast boolits). Since I had an extra Mauser Mk X in 30-06 I sent it off and had it rebarreled in 416 Taylor.

Bought an RCBS 350-416 FNGC mould and a set of dies and have been having FUN with it ever since.

It's different...that's one reason why I like it.

[frank505]

Uncle Grinch:
You have a great rifle and a good bullet to shoot out of it. You just need a load around two thousand or more feet per second and some targets, like piggys. I don't have much data on the 350 grain bullet, I size them to .414 and shoot them in my 405 WCF 1895. I mostly use the 410 gas check in my Taylor at 2200 fps, the Speer 350 at 2500 or a brass solid at 2475. The Speer is a great bullet(for jacketed) but unavailable now, buy if you can find them. A friend shoots them from a Rigby #1 at 2850 and they always exit his Charlois's with cup sized exits. I have tried very few of the Hornady softs and none of their solids. Bubba in Florida has a love for the Barnes 325 X out of his Taylor, just flattens pigs and exits somewhere into the palmettos. Good shooting!!

[Four Fingers of Death]

"I mostly use the 410 gas check in my Taylor at 2200 fps

Which mould is that? I am about to get a 416 Rigby and will need a mould. I think a 300-350 Gn boolit would be ample, but I'd like a 400-410 for factory ammo practice/duplication.

Mick.

[Three44s]

I'd be buying a spare stock for the trapdoor and carefully storing the old one away and shooting lead in that. Smile factor has to be seen to be believed, especially with a family heirloom.


Yes, but when I priced stocks ....... I about fell over! ........ LOL!

Do you have any tips on not getting one at a reasonable price?


Three 44s

[frank505]

It is a Mountain Mold two holer. Seems to cast a good bullet, maybe he will get back to production someday................................

[Lumpie]

I found a way to solve this problem. I have always liked the .338. I had one built 338-06 on a P-17 action. I then had a 201gr. spire point mould made for it. I have found that all of the moulds that were made for it .aka mod. 71 Winchester 33 were the wrong style. With a spire bullet, you could not shoot them in the 71. Early case of product liability? Carl

[charger 1]

mod. 71 Winchester 33 were the wrong style. With a spire bullet, you could not shoot them in the 71. Early case of product liability? Carl


Who made model 71 33 cal guns?

[charger 1]

It is a Mountain Mold two holer. Seems to cast a good bullet, maybe he will get back to production someday................................

Mountain is in full swing. From the time I ordered my last mold till it was ready was 4 hours

[Three44s]

Gasp SPUTTER ............

Four hours ..........

That's some kind of short turn around!

Three 44s

[charger 1]

Gasp SPUTTER ............

Four hours ..........

That's some kind of short turn around!

Three 44s

Ya I shouldnt speak for him cause I dont know if maybe it was so fast cause he was already set for something sinilar or what, but it was Darned fast. Put it in late saturday morn. Emailed sunday morn to make a change. Mold was cut. Thats a working afternoon,aprox 4 hrs:-D

[Three44s]

As word gets around that he's back in the game ........ his time is bound to stretch a bunch!

Three 44s

[PatMarlin]

I've never owned a MM and I think it's about darn time.. :Fire:

[Three44s]

They look darn right "bueatufil" too!!!

Three 44s

[charger 1]

Well when this one comes in the door I'll post as to the workmanship, and you guys know I'm a picky, moanin SOB.:twisted:

[Three44s]

Well when this one comes in the door I'll post as to the workmanship, and you guys know I'm a picky, moanin SOB.:twisted:

Which will make an endorsement all the more valuable if that's what comes of it!!

:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Three 44s

[TCLouis]

and 39 grains of IMR 3031 and Lee 220 my model 70 will make a group the size of my fingernail (never have bothered to measure it) at 50 yars (same with the discontinued funny coated FP 33 Winchester from Hornady). The 33 Winnie bullet will stop a TN deer and whatever is behind it.

I have yet to get the 200 grain RNFP to shot that well yet, but have NOT spent a lot of time. A recent load of PS11, (no longer available) is pretty dang good though. Good enough for practice anyway.

I went back and read some of the posts earlier.
358 would be good, plenty of 308 brass around at reasonable price. AND if you really want a 45 cal, then any 45-70 would be PERFECT, in fact after rereading you post I would place it as # 1 on the list even though cowboy action and BPCR has driven prices out of sight for such guns.