Good ole Lee 452-228-1R and my 1911

[Animal]

I've been working over the past 3 weeks trying to work up Red Dot loads with the Lee 6 banger my wife got me for Christmas. I had a bit of a time trying to figure out the ideal way to seat these boolits for my new 1911.

I worked up loads at 1.190 col that functioned just dandy (Lees Min COL for Red Dot), but I wasn't impressed with the accuracy. I then tinkered around for a while and found that I could seat a little higher at 1.220 without any problems. Once again, they all functioned but didn't impress me with accuracy.

I almost gave up that boolit all together until I tried running a few through the .452 sizer and working the length again. To my amazement, I found that I could seat the sized boolits to 1.245!

I loaded a few dummies to 1.245 then I loaded a few Lyman 452374 RN boolits to 1.272 (lymans published COAL). I ran a pin through the primer flash hole to the base of the boolit of the Lee dummy round and measured how far it protruded from the headstamp. I then did the exact same thing with the Lyman dummy round and compared measurements. To my surprise, not only was I able to increase case capacity and achieve ideal cambering... I also found that the Lee had MORE case capacity.

I worked up some loads of Red Dot, walked out to the firing range in the front yard and commenced to testing. 5.1gr of Red Dot behind a Lee 452-228-1R made one ragged hole!

I'll say, this load is a real tac-driver! And to think, I almost let this Lee mold collect dust.

I just felt like sharing a little success story. Casting is still new to me and times like these make the frusteration well worth it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been working over the past 3 weeks trying to work up Red Dot loads with the Lee 6 banger my wife got me for Christmas. I had a bit of a time trying to figure out the ideal way to seat these boolits for my new 1911.

I worked up loads at 1.190 col that functioned just dandy (Lees Min COL for Red Dot), but I wasn't impressed with the accuracy. I then tinkered around for a while and found that I could seat a little higher at 1.220 without any problems. Once again, they all functioned but didn't impress me with accuracy.

I almost gave up that boolit all together until I tried running a few through the .452 sizer and working the length again. To my amazement, I found that I could seat the sized boolits to 1.245!

I loaded a few dummies to 1.245 then I loaded a few Lyman 452374 RN boolits to 1.272 (lymans published COAL). I ran a pin through the primer flash hole to the base of the boolit of the Lee dummy round and measured how far it protruded from the headstamp. I then did the exact same thing with the Lyman dummy round and compared measurements. To my surprise, not only was I able to increase case capacity and achieve ideal cambering... I also found that the Lee had MORE case capacity.

I worked up some loads of Red Dot, walked out to the firing range in the front yard and commenced to testing. 5.1gr of Red Dot behind a Lee 452-228-1R made one ragged hole!

I'll say, this load is a real tac-driver! And to think, I almost let this Lee mold collect dust.

I just felt like sharing a little success story. Casting is still new to me and times like these make the frusteration well worth it.
What were you sizing them to before ?
Lube ?
tumble lube ?

[Animal]

JonB, I wasn't sizing the beginning boolits. I used the lee sizing die and tumble lubed with LLA. It seems to do well with LLA, but tomorrow I'll be shooting some that I pan lubed with 60/40 beeswax/Vasaline and see what that does.

[35remington]

The longer the overall length and the more it goes toward the "standard" length of ball ammo, which is in the 1.265" vicinity, the happier the 1911 is in feeding. The nose of the bullet strikes the frame ramp sooner and dives less before striking it (no deep frame ramp needed with this OAL) and it starts its turn upward toward the chamber earlier. This means it travels from magazine to chamber at a flatter angle, which makes its climb upward less steep and the rim approaches the extractor at a flatter angle as well, increasing the "window" where it may slip under the extractor. More clearance to do so in other words.

The overall length and rounded ogive at your chosen and rather fortuitously long OAL (I am able to load to 1.220-1.230" for mine using the 228-1R) of 1.245" means that the very best magazine for your cartridge is......the original GI magazine.

These oughta feed like silk through those. No "ka chunk" at all.

With the slightly longer OAL and slightly greater capacity the long seating allows, the load of 5.1 grains Red Dot will get at least 850 fps given a five inch barrel, I would guess. 4.8 Red Dot and the Lee 230-2R loaded to 1.265" gets a little faster than 850 in my 1911's, and the three tenths heavier charge should get at least that even given your slight increase in case capacity.

Sounds like you did quite well.

[Animal]

35remington,

Once again, thanks for your input. As I am new to auto-pistols you stated some things that make it easier for me to understand how the OAL functions in my 1911. Also, yes on the magazine. I'm using Wilson Combat #608.

I don't have a Chronograph, but my hopes of this load was to achieve something in the 800fps velocity. If you don't mind, I'd like to print your response to my post and attach it to my load data (assuming these numbers are from personal testing).

[35remington]

Those numbers are from personal testing. I've chronographed various charges of Red Dot quite a few times in 3.5 to 5 inch barrels. I've used charges under several different cast 230 RN's ranging from 4 to 5.2 grains as well as other bullet types and I may have a better handle on what various lots of Red Dot can do than any other powder I use for the 45 ACP. It makes a pretty good 45 ACP powder. I use it (and Promo, its low cost equivalent) as my primary 45 ACP powder.

Good velocity for the charge weight, relatively clean burning at the upper end charges, bulks well in the case, has low extreme spreads in velocity, relatively low cost per pound, and is capable of producing light to full power loads. What's not to like? For a ball equivalent load yours is a good one. I term loads that approximate 850 fps "heavy ball" as they equal the velocities of the faster lots of military ball ammo (most WCC in the cardboard boxes) I've been fortunate enough to shoot and chronograph.

It is not so fast as to cause concern about wear on the pistol. For a 1911, it's about right, and if in a pinch I had to use it for a serious purpose the feed reliability (and accuracy in your case) would be really reassuring.

[35remington]

If you ever do get a chronograph, I'd adjust the load as necessary to obtain the mentioned 850 fps and leave it. Failing that, given how it shoots, call it good and have fun with it.

Penetration certainly won't be lacking with that bullet, and that's the single most important characteristic a pistol load can have.....besides going bang and hitting the target, that is. You've got all three covered.