Building a Single Shot Receiver

[terryt]

Hi:

Has anyone built a Single Shot Receiver without the use of a lathe or mill?
If one were to try this what would be the easiest receiver to build for a center fire.

I would like to build one in .22 Hornet.

I know the rifling in the receiver would have to be cut on a lathe.

Not that I am retired I have more time than money and was thinking do this by using a bench grinder, hand file and a dermal tool.

Thanks,

Terryt

[M-Tecs]

The Home Shop Machinist http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/home?noredirect=true&noredirect=true had plans to a drill press and hand tap print for a low pressure receiver. The 22 Hornet can hit 43,000 PSI. If you’re going that route I would strongly recommend a 22 rimfire to start with.

[leftiye]

Husquavrna, savage, Mosin Nagant (locking lug length of feed port) all use the bolt handle for a locking lug. Tube receiver, pull to cock bolt, split rear bridge, long enough rear bridge channel to retract and eject cartridges while still retaining bolt. Thread in barrel.

[nekshot]

Frank DeHass has a booklet for 2 single shot projects. The latter one in the book is a simple one and looks nice. I am always trying to get as close to a falling block as possible, Too many barrels for sale at resonable prices to go the route of making one. This is a sickness and will produce many a sleepness moment dreaming how to make another one, gun parts such as triggers and hammers look like gold when offered for sale. Some things I now buy and build the innards to work with them such as triggers and hammers. Have fun, I sure do. You might find yourself looking out side the box of traditional thoughts and that is ok as it is your creativity kicking in however most of my outside box ideas end up being a hair crosswise somewhere but I learn a little from each excursion of thought.
nekshot

[oldred]

I built a High Wall action without a mill using a lathe with a home-made milling attachment and it was a very challenging project, I think you really should try to obtain a small lathe at the minimum. A great deal of the external shaping of my receiver was done using files and while I suppose power grinders could be used I have found that hand held power tools are a recipe for disaster except for all but the very roughest shaping. Dremel tools are going to be mostly useless and a drill press is too inaccurate for close work, not saying what you want to do can't be done because with enough determination it probably can be but the frustration factor is going to be quite high.

Is it possible you might be able to buy or otherwise get access to a lathe (or much better a mill), even a small one?

[nekshot]

Terryt, the name of the book is Mr. Single Shot's Book Of Rifle Plans. The second chapter shows a gun that was used for 223's. That is more preassure than a 22 hornet. Do your self a favor and learn about bolt thrust, study some marginal actions as savage 340's and the good old Krag and you will get confident you can lock up a action better or at least as good as those. Don't get put off from the boo birds telling you what you can't do they are well meaning but on this one you must go with your heart. A simple drill press would be nice if you can swing it! Have fun.

[nekshot]

oldred, You answered as I was typing and you are the fella I wanted to recommend to terry but I forgot your handle. Terry listen to this fella he has some nice work we desire to produce some day as we learn.

[KLR]

Sign up at weaponsguild.com. There are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful builders there.

[texassako]

The de Haas book mentioned above is a good place to start. The last rifle rifle in the book is a sandwich construction that would not be that bad(tedious maybe) with your listed tools and the addition of a drill press. I think you maybe meant threading the receiver and barrel with a lathe, not rifling.

[Tatume]

The Home Shop Machinist http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/home?noredirect=true&noredirect=true had plans to a drill press and hand tap print for a low pressure receiver. The 22 Hornet can hit 43,000 PSI. If you’re going that route I would strongly recommend a 22 rimfire to start with.

I would like to see this web site, but the link doesn't work.

[Tatume]

Ah ha! I shortened it to http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ and it works.

[bob208]

yes and no. can you file? I mean really use a file. then you have a good start. I have the plans for a single shot action that could maybe be done with hand tools. it is built up from pices so you would have to do some welding.

[oldred]

I would STRONGLY recommend a small mill/drill as opposed to a simple drill press since the drill press would be of limited usefulness while even a mini-mill could do precision operations. Mini-mills can be found used for close to the price of a decent drill press and can be used to make all kinds of parts while the drill press can be used to drill holes and little else.


Even if the drill press or mini-mill is not an option there are still receivers that can be built given enough determination and willingness to dedicate the time needed, a decent solidly mounted vise, some "soft" jaws for this vise, a hand held power drill and a selection of GOOD files can produce just about any part necessary. IMHO power hand held grinders, even a dremel tool, will cause more problems than they solve. They remove material much too quickly and imprecisely and can easily ruin a part that a person has already invested a great deal of time and effort in, nothing will discourage a project quicker than having to trash a part that has many hours of work already put into it. Good clean sharp files of the proper shapes and styles can remove metal at a much faster rate than most folks might imagine and progress is MUCH easier to control than with power tools, the trick is to finesse the metal into shape and that becomes extremely hard to do with hand held power tools!

[Tatume]

a selection of GOOD files

Hi Red,

Can you direct me to a source of files? My local hardware stores have been driven out of business by the orange box stores. The orange box stores have a limited selection of files.

Thanks, Tom

[oldred]

Try, www.use-enco.com

They have about the best prices on Nicholson files (on sale right now for the flat files in all sizes!) in just about any style or size you might want. Some folks like the Swiss pattern files but I personally like American mill pattern styles (single cut teeth) and I have found they seem to cut nearly as fast as flat pattern (double cut teeth) files but leave a much better finish. I have mill files from 16" down to 4" in bastard and smooth cut but I skipped the second cut styles since I felt they are simply unnecessary for this type of work, the smooth cut is used only for finial surface finishing prior to sanding or bead blasting and the bastard cut does everything else from initial rough cuts to final shaping before surface finishing. Round and half round files are also a necessity and I have found chain saw sharpening files to be very handy also. I grind a smooth non-cutting (safe) edge on some of the flat files and I grind all of them, flat, round, half round, etc, back on the ends until they have cutting teeth all the way to the end instead of the last 1/8" or so being uncut.

Nicholson or Grobet make really good files and even with Nicholson being made in Mexico and Brazil now I can see little or no difference in quality since they moved off-shore a couple of years ago.

[Tatume]

Thanks Red. Now if I can just find that tutorial on filing that Steve Zihn produced, I'll be all set. Thanks, Tom

[CastingFool]

One thing to remember, files cut in one direction only, and that is going away from you.

[oldred]

The key to making a file work is to keep it clean, a clogged file will not only not cut it will gouge the surface and make a mess! Keep lots of chalk handy and starting with a dry clean file "chalk" the teeth liberally (and often during use) and immediately remove any chips that might stick in the teeth, never use a file without chalk or another anti-clog material on the teeth. Personally I prefer soapstone (welders chalk) for use with files rather than plain chalk but both will work and I keep a flat piece of hardwood handy for cleaning the file, I never use a file card or any kind of wire brush on my files. Simply pushing the end edge of a flat piece of hardwood across the teeth will clean them thoroughly of anything between them except for all but the stubbornest of chips, the wood will instantly form fit to the teeth and dirt and oil will be easily removed while the wood can't possibly damage a file's teeth. Another thing I do with my files is keep them separated by placing them in oiled paper sleeves I make for each file and when using them I make sure they do not get banged together or otherwise allowed to strike a metal surface since the teeth will chip easily, some of my files are several years old and still sharp.

Files should be considered as high quality cutting instruments and cared for accordingly!

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Red,

Can you direct me to a source of files? My local hardware stores have been driven out of business by the orange box stores. The orange box stores have a limited selection of files.

Thanks, Tom

Correction. Agent Orange and Big Blue have NO files. They sell what they call files, but they are ****.

I have files coming out of my ears now, and though I bought a couple at good hardware stores, a solid half came from scouting garage sales and buying them rusted from a bucket. Some naval jelly and elbow grease and half of my scores turn into VERY nice files. And I do not lack for beater files for odd jobs either.

They have a place of honor on my pegboard, and when I finally get rid of the peg for a proper toolbox, they will have an entire drawer dedicated to them. Nothing but fine files.

[oldred]

I have to disagree about yard sale files and most other used files for that matter, while something like a rusty file can usually be salvaged to become quite usable for, as an example, sharpening lawn mower blades, etc, they are almost always too far gone for any kind of precision work. Most files found at yard sales, etc, have been abused and neglected because most people simply consider them to be a disposable tool and use them improperly with little or no proper care and maintenance so unless a person just happens upon a nearly new one they will almost always have dull and chipped teeth. Rusty files are ruined for shaping and finishing, think about it even if the rust is removed the metal that was converted into rust is gone leaving the teeth ragged, pitted and uneven. Again these might be reclaimed into being quite decent for sharpening purposes but they are going to be forever ruined for shaping and finish work which is what will be needed for shaping gun parts. An abused dull file can not be re-sharpened from a practical standpoint, I know there are various methods for rejuvenating old files but none will ever return one to it's new condition and when working metal as opposed to just sharpening a tool the difference is profound. My advice for buying files intended for metal working is to buy new good quality files, use them properly and keep them well maintained, there is a world of difference between a good sharp nick free file with even teeth that will literally shave metal off as opposed to a previously abused but reconditioned file that will instead rip metal off, while the reconditioned file may be ok for general use the differences will be seen in the rate at which the metal is removed and in the final finish.

[uscra112]

I buy old files even when they are shot to the heat death. Large ones especially. They can be annealed and cut or forged into excellent sears, extractors, and even hammers if you have a large enough file to start with. Then re-harden and temper. Learned from the Williamsburg gunsmith shop that most of the hardened lock parts and frizzens of colonial times were made from old files, which were imported from Europe.

There's a guy in England - Harry Eales - who posts on the ASSRA forum. He has built entire Sharps-Borschart replicas on a micro-milling machine of the sort that model-makers use. Not a Sherline, but close.

[oldred]

Old files definitely can be reincarnated in the forms of many different and useful items and I keep several pieces on hand at all times. I guess I'm kind of a pack rat and I tend to see value in what others might see as useless, a connoisseur of fine junk I suppose!

[uscra112]

One's man's trash is another man's treasure! I've also got 18" of a broken truck leaf spring that I found in the road. Over 5/16" thick and 4" wide. I ought to stuff it into the woodstove to anneal it right now, while I've got the stove running hot. It'll make a couple dozen single-shot hammers. When I had to replace a half-shaft in the rear axle of my van, I made sure I got the old one back. Almost four feet of excellent alloy steel. Bert Munroe whittled the connecting rods for his "World's Fastest Indian" from truck axles.

[terryt]

Hi:

I want to thank all of you for your response.

I do have a drill press and after reading this I will look into getting a small mill drill.

Back in the 50's when I was in school I had metal shop from the 7th though the 12th grade.

We were taught the use of files and had several projects were everything to do with removing metal was done with a file.

The brand of file we used was Simmons. Is Simmons still made and are they any good?

Thanks'

Terryt

[CastingFool]

Hi:

I want to thank all of you for your response.

I do have a drill press and after reading this I will look into getting a small mill drill.

Back in the 50's when I was in school I had metal shop from the 7th though the 12th grade.

We were taught the use of files and had several projects were everything to do with removing metal was done with a file.

The brand of file we used was Simmons. Is Simmons still made and are they any good?

Thanks'

Terryt

I did a quick search and this is what I found; www.simondsint.com

As to their quality, I cannot comment as I'm not familiar with them. Most of the time, I use Nicholson files.

[heathydee]

I have scratch built several single shot rifles including the one in my avatar - a falling block . I would recommend Frank De Hass's book of plans and would suggest building the Chicopee RF . A lot of the parts can be made with simple hand tools but a lathe and mill will be necessary for some operations . I built the Chicopee RF seven or eight years ago followed by the centre fire version in 30-30 .
The CF build was documented here . http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=20227
The De Haas book also gives plans for two falling block rifles which did not interest me . I regarded them as cumbersome and ugly but since I still had an interest in building single shot rifles I came up with the falling block in my avatar which is an original design inspired by drawings by Bill Holmes .

[BCRider]

First off as a life long metal shop hobbyist I would say that making a receiver without a lathe or mill is possible. But it would require you to learn the old world skills with the hand tools. And not only will it take a long time to make up all the parts but your arms will look like you've been pumping iron at the gym! ! ! !

Since you'd lack the lathe for making small round parts you would need to rely on things like dowel pins or design the receiver so it doesn't require lathe turned parts that can't be made from simple operations using a hand drill and file.

The thing is that if you have the skills you need to make stuff like this totally by hand other than with the aid of a drill press then you really didn't need to post the question. If you start out to have a go at it anyway I'd strongly suggest you start with a .22 barrel from a donor gun and build your single shot receiver based on using the barrel. I'd suggest the simple plain stub found on Ruger 10/22 barrels since there's no threads to cut.

As for good files I have not seen any Simmons in years. Nicholson seems to be the only one I find that has one of the better quality names. But if you can find Sandvik files buy them. I've got a couple that have worked wonderfully for many years. I wore one out over about a 15 year period and the replacement started being used about 4 years ago. They are actually far better than Nicholson. And Nicholson isn't shabby by any stretch.

Other than for the oddballs that you only use once in a blue moon avoid Asian import files. They are very crude.

[oldred]

avoid Asian import files. They are very crude.


That should have read, "avoid those Asian objects that look like files".

[nekshot]

This thread turns my crank! I inherited a bunch of sandvik files from my dad and boy do they work nice! Back about 16 years ago I saw a smithy combo Lathe/mill commercial and a fellow holding a ss (sharp rifle type) that he built. I was hooked. I could not swing the funds for the smithy but I picked up a austrian lathe for 800.00 and a nice heavy duty drill/mill for 300.00 at auctions. All is well but in hindsite I wish I had bought the smithy combo. I hear all the negatives but I don't do production work, space is a premium and the smithy had what appeared to be good tech support for a newbie like me. The smithy had a 36 inch bed if I recall and most important a 1.5 spindle bore. I have the bed but my bore is around 1 inch and that limits me tremendously. If I ever move again I still might go with a combo and unload my stuff.

[Tatume]

The Smithy is a wood-working tool.

[oldred]

Those combo mills do have some advantages but they are mostly outweighed by the disadvantages. The better combos such as the "Granite" models can be much better than the cheaper Smithy models and almost any of the other brands which are mostly just junk. The problems with these things are both from one function interfering with another to the far more serious lack of rigidity, the "Granite" models seem to be a lot more rigid (although still lacking) and thus somewhat more accurate but at the price it's better to just go with a dedicated mill and lathe, besides from my experience the quality of even the Granite models is questionable. The flaw with these machines seems to be they have to make so many compromises in order to do everything it makes them unable to do anything really well!

For example look at the impressive swing on some of these machines, 16" of swing on a new machine for less than $2000 sounds great until a person looks at that incredibly tall and skinny tail stock! That tall thin tail stock combined with the light weight construction of the machine makes it all but impossible to prevent chatter when working most materials but even worse is the flex which will wreak havoc with accuracy! I know that some folks have done some impressive work with these machines but all things considered that same work can be done with a LOT less headache on dedicated design machines.

[oldred]

The Smithy is a wood-working tool.

Agreed, it's just that they are disguised as metal working tools!

[Boz330]

You might take a look at Frontier Armory action kits. The Farrow actions I believe are supposed to be one of the easier to complete and it is a falling block. Here are some of their kits. http://kwk.us/FA/ A buddy of mine got one of the 1885 Winchester kits which is one of the toughest to build and he has been working on it for several years and isn't done yet.

Bob

[nekshot]

Boz, are these guys really in business? I have tried numerous times in the last 3 or so years to find them and no luck. I would jump at some of their work in a heart beat.
Oldred, the good thing I quess I can say is I don't have a combo right now but the Granite was the model I looked into.

[Tatume]

A company called Blue Grouse was selling kits for an underhammer muzzleloading action. They guaranteed everything 100%. I bought a kit, and when I found the trigger/hammer geometry was off and the trigger was unsafe they told me "take it up with the foundry that made the parts." I don't even know who that was. I still have the parts.

[hickstick_10]

Boulder River foundry sells castings for the winchester highwall. The castings must be pretty good as they also do the ones for shiloh sharps.

Theres also a Remington hepburn kits from another company. http://www.uppermotradingco.com/index.html

[BCRider]

Nekshot, first off the combo machines often do not have the features you already take for granted on your separate tools. The most obvious one being room on the milling table to allow for clamping setups or indexing setups to be clamped down. Don't discount this feature as it isn't uncommon for a small part to need clamping or indexing fixtures that take up as much room as a large loaf of bread to hold something the size of a candy mint.

Other things I take for granted are not found on the combo machines. For example large diameter dials with wide and far more useable markings in .001 graduations instead of small diameter dials with .002 graduations. And very few combo machines have quick change gearboxes for threading.

I could go on but the list is long. The point is that you're much better off with the separate machines. If room is tight then consider how to mount your mill on a stand with retractable wheels so you can move it out of the way. Or organize your other stuff to make the other storage methods more compact so you have room for the machines. And if you really must combo anything then use the mill/drill as your drill press to save some room.

[oldred]

Of all the combo-machines out there the Granite stands out well above the rest, still I would only consider one if space was the limiting factor. For the cost of the Granite a person could buy a dedicated lathe of comparable or larger size and use a milling attachment, the milling attachment might be somewhat limited compared to the combo-machine but the lathe would be orders of magnitude better! JMO however and I have to admit the Granite seems to get better reviews than the others so it just might be a decent choice for some folks needs especially the in 40" version.

Have you looked at this machine?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G



Now about those receiver kits, I may get some disagreement from some who have built them but IMO it's better (and a LOT cheaper!!!!) to start with raw materials. Getting from a rough sawn block of 4140HT to the stage of that raw casting is the easy part and even that is mostly offset by the difficult set-up of that casting, I found that when working with raw stock set-up was a lot easier than trying to work to tolerance on semi-finished parts. The small pieces like triggers, sears, levers, etc are hardly a problem and again most of these are just as easily made, or even more so, from raw stock as opposed to castings. Another problem is making a mistake with an expensive casting, it's a lot easier to start over with a part made from raw stock than it is to have to do it with a casting that cost a lot of money and/or is simply not available as a replacement. After having done this a couple of times now I would choose raw stock over a casting without hesitation!

[BCRider]

I agree with you oldred. Another advantage for working from regular stock is that we can leave the part joined to the rest of the metal for longer so it's easier to hold in a vise while shaping the part.

An old apprentice test back when there were no computers or CNC was to file a round ball to a set diameter and with a fairly tight tolerance for size. Go a little too far and the size was off and it didn't matter how round it was. Get the diameter right but make it too egg shaped and it was a fail as well. It tested not only the apprentice's ability to work a file but also to measure. And the smarter ones figured out a way to mark or otherwise index the ball so they could spot the highs and lows. Yes it was a lot of work. But no more so than what we're considering in this thread for a wholly hand tool made receiver.

Oh, and once the apprentice got the nod from the master on the ball? He was told to take it back and file it down to a cube of a given size and tolerance with the faces to be flat to within an even smaller tolerance.... :D

[Boz330]

Boz, are these guys really in business? I have tried numerous times in the last 3 or so years to find them and no luck. I would jump at some of their work in a heart beat.
Oldred, the good thing I quess I can say is I don't have a combo right now but the Granite was the model I looked into.

Here is some contact info http://frontierarmory.com/ but I'm not sure how current it is. My buddy got one of the highwall kits but it seems that this guy is a little hard to catch but he did get the mentioned kit in due time. He originally wanted one of the Farrow kits but it wasn't offered with a double set trigger which he was adamant about. Personally I really like the look of the Farrow action and think it would make a fine rifle.

Bob

[oldred]

Just in case all this talk about shop machinery is discouraging to anyone who might be thinking of building a rifle but don't have access to lathes and mills, don't let it be! Obviously the more complex designs are going to require the proper machinery, at least from a practical standpoint, but that in no way means a person should give up. Some of the De Hass designs can be built with hand tools or with an absolute minimum of machinery and they can be very worthwhile projects that a person can be proud of!

[uscra112]

Those action kits look to me like what production guns were made from in the early part of the 19th century. Shops had rows on rows of "filers" who took rough castings and forgings and filed them to match hardened steel patterns. Those parts then went to "fitters" who made up assemblies, again filing as needed to make the parts work together. Once an action was fitted-up "in the raw" the parts would be send for hardening as a set. Then it came back and was re-fitted, now using stones instead of files. This was still more the rule than the exception even through the Civil War. This was considered "interchangeable parts" until tolerances started being stated in thousandths instead of x/64ths of an inch.

[nekshot]

I would be very happy to be a fitter of some of those kits!
Oldred, I get into grizzly about 4 times a year and the lust begins for a lathe like that one! Makes my maxi mat v10 or what ever I have and the fact I don't have a instruction manual for it to seem like a bigger burden than I can bear!
By the way I am making a single shot rifle based on a swivel action. No pictures until I have it shooting. Low preassure cast rig is what I call it. I am pumped over this one.

[BCRider]

Nekshot, your lathe is a universal enough tool that you don't really need an actual Maxi-mat manual unless you need a part number. If it's about how to get the best from your machine there's a few different books that are as good as a few evenings with a master machinist. Might even be better because you can go back and check things again and again.

Download "How to Run A Lathe". It's the first link you see at http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3 .

Another great book is "The Amateur's Lathe" by Sparey. It's a Model Engineer book and worth it's weight in good shop tools.

It's like a training course all wrapped up between covers.

With a variety of made up jigs, a good hacksaw, a brace of good files, a LOT of patience and a jar full of ibuprofen there's no reason at all to not be able to file out a nice single shot. What it takes is either skill and attention with the files or a little creative cheating to set up hardened guides as file guide as suggested to control the cuts. It's not the first idea that comes to mind in today's CNC this and CAD that world but it still works as good now as it did at the turn of the last century.

[uscra112]

I for one had/have a lot of respect for the Maximat. They were head and shoulders above the Taiwanese equivalent when I was in the machine tool business in the '70s and '80s. I would not feel much of a handicap if a Maximat was all I had, save that it's too small for most rifle barrel work.

Emco is still in business, but they no longer make or support the Maximat. Blue Ridge Supply still supports them as far as they can. They might even have the manual.

http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/

Emco sold quite a few of them in the USA, so stuff for them will likely be on evilBay pretty often, too.

[nekshot]

Thanks for the encouragement on the lathe I have. I simply have to get the books and educate myself and I will be fine, I think. How important is cooling fluids? I go reeeeal slow and use a squeeze bottle at times but some times I think a oiler/pump gizmo would be nice.

[Alphawolf45]

Metalsworking is a satisfying hobby all itself and guns is just some of the possible projects.. A few weeks back I made a 2 cavity bullet mold.. Have made compression die and universal decapper and various other reloading related projects. Am a month or two away from finishing a scratch built Sharps. I have built a wheelbarrow load of guns.. Like others here I wouldn't want to discourage anybody from trying to build a gun with only a few tools.. But I encourage friends to buy machinery and enjoy being able to do anything and everything else they can imagine.................If I did want to build a gun with only hand tools I'd be building muzzleloaders because for hundreds of years that is exactly how it was done.

[oldred]

I too thought about suggesting muzzleloaders as a first project because the chances of success are greatly increased which is a real confidence builder, plus the builder ends up with a BP rifle he can be proud of for his efforts. As far as machinery needs go that depends a great deal on a person's willingness to be patient and how much they can spend, obviously something like a nice Bridgeport is going to be FAR more useful than a Harbor Freight mini-mill but given patience and willingness to work within it's limitations even the mini-mill can be used to build some of the more complex actions and these can be bought used for less than half the price of a new rifle. Although not firearm parts, I know a fellow who builds small gasoline engines from scratch (a local R/C model airplane hobbyist uses one of these home built engines!) using a mini-mill that is identical to one sold at HF so I have no doubt this thing could be used to build a rifle receiver. They turn up on CL often and usually with tooling worth as much or more than the mill so if a person is thinking of buying a drill press then consider spending a couple of hundred dollars more and get something far more useful, remember you can drill with a mill but you can not mill with a drill press! Plus you can drill with a much better degree of accuracy when drilling on a mill.

[nekshot]

When I bought my drill/mill a older fella at the sale I was chatting with(his dad was a gunsmith)and he had a machine shop told me if this mill doesn't work out to my liking I will atleast have the best drill press I could afford. Mine is identical to the grizzly G0705 with stand and R8 collets, R8 end mill arbors for cutters and some face mill cutters and some slitting saws and a whopping good drill chuck. All for a little over 300 dollars. The old fella grinned and said I did well and I have been blessed with learning on it. Patience and watching sales can produce gratifying results.

[oldred]

That Grizzly mill is well within the capability range of building even a complex receiver and a whole lot of other items!

[uscra112]

Thanks for the encouragement on the lathe I have. I simply have to get the books and educate myself and I will be fine, I think. How important is cooling fluids? I go reeeeal slow and use a squeeze bottle at times but some times I think a oiler/pump gizmo would be nice.

For the fifteen years that my only lathe was a light duty Prazi bench lathe, I have cut everything dry all the time. I use carbide tools, and light cuts, but never have run it slow. (It won't chuck anything over 1" diameter, and changing speeds is a PITA, so I just set it for about 1800 RPM and leave it at that.) If you are not cutting deep and fast, heat's not too much of an issue cutting decent steel on a small lathe. (It is a huge issue when you come to high production speeds on powerful machines. Been there, done that, and yes, I do have war stroies galore.

Threading, reaming and tapping do require a cutting oil, but hand application will work just fine.

[oldred]

I use a coolant when heat becomes a problem which it sometimes does when hogging off a lot of material but if the system had not been installed on my lathe when I bought it I probably would not have bothered, it is however quite handy sometimes.

[nekshot]

in all honesty when I go my normal slow speed nothing heats up. But you see some other guys really moving along and then I go try it and the smoke starts!
Is there a simple way to put flats on a barrel with out a rotary index attchment? I have dreamed how possibly to do it but asking is cheap!

[Tatume]

For a long time, years, I've thought about building a single shot receiver of extremely simple design. What I have in mind is a breech block that simply drops in from the top. To load or unload, grasp the breechblock with the thumb and forefinger and lift it straight up to remove it. Then put it back after loading, cock the hammer, and fire. The hammer will be side-mounted with an offset nose. To keep it super simple, the hammer/trigger engagement will be on the outside, so there will be no moving internal parts, per se. The right side of the action will be inletted, and a plate will cover the hammer/trigger engagement area. Most of the action will be a simple, solid block of steel. The hard part (for me) will be fitting a spring-retracted firing pin into the breechblock.

I’ve considered several variations on the theme, including bottom and side retraction of the breechblock, and a cylindrical breechblock that fits into a round hole. I’ve also considered a breechblock that inserts from the bottom, but doesn’t come all the way out. It would have a spring-loaded ball detent that holds it in the firing position. Push down on the top, and it drops down exposing the breech.

Extraction would be with a small screwdriver. Later I might fit a pivoting extractor that is manually operated (drop the breechblock, push a lever to extract, remove the empty cartridge).

What do you guys think?

[nekshot]

Tatume I'll let the more expierenced fellas answer your question but I bet we all could compliment alot of ideas we have had if we got them together. I also for years have been trying to get a falling block (the block) to have the hammer and trigger and spring all in one unit. All needed would be for it to drop, lever push ejection rod and back up. Sometimes (most of the time)I think alot more than I can actually deliver!

[uscra112]

in all honesty when I go my normal slow speed nothing heats up. But you see some other guys really moving along and then I go try it and the smoke starts!
Is there a simple way to put flats on a barrel with out a rotary index attchment? I have dreamed how possibly to do it but asking is cheap!

For an octagon, it's easy on a mill. You cut one flat, turn it over 180 degrees and cut a flat opposite. Then set up with those flats vertical (you'll need a square, or an accurately square vise). Cut one, flip it over, cut another. Now you've got four flats at 90 degrees. Set the barrel in a pair of vee-blocks, locating off the flats already cut, to get the other four cuts.

Best machine tool for cutting flats on a barrel is a planer, however. Shaving from one end to the other on every stroke distributes the heat, so there's much less chance of warping the barrel. Old machine tool builders knew this. You would never see them cutting the ways on a lathe or grinder bed using a mill. But planers are slow, so nobody uses them today. If you mill flats, use a lot of coolant and light cuts.

[nekshot]

wow I never thought of doing it that way! I can handle that. Thanks, it sure pays to ask!

[uscra112]

Tatume, you've almost described the Snyder, except on the Snyder the breechblock is on a hinge so it swings up out of the way to the side. There were some .22 boy's rifles that worked that way, too.

You've also almost described Frank deHaas' "Vault Lock". Breech block is a cylinder.

Start buying up the deHaas books, you'll have a ball with them.
Single Shot Rifles and Actions
More Single Shot Rifles and Actions
A Potpourrui of Single Shot Rifles and Actions
and especially
Mr. Single Shot's Book of Rifle Plans

The "Vault Lock" is a real strong action that could be built entirely on a lathe. Strong as in 60,000 psi magnums strong..

The "Chicopee" is good enough for .222/.223, if done right.

[oldred]

This is how I did my barrel with a home-made attachment for my lathe built for the purpose of milling the flats since I did not have a mill, that attachment is what I jokingly call my "tool post mill". Basically it's just a jack-shaft driven by a 1/3 HP motor with a home-made end mill holder on the shaft (BTW there is a belt guard on that thing, I had removed it there to change speeds). With that long barrel chatter was naturally a problem but after filling the bore with lead shot and playing around a bit with speeds and feed rates the chatter went away.

94379


94380

[KLR]

oldred, That rifle is nice. Would you show us some more pictures? Thanks.

[oldred]

I had a thread a year or so ago that explains a bit more about this project, I started another one which is a 3/4 scale "Baby Brother" to this one and got it almost 90% complete before spring farming chores put the project on hold. With everything else that has been occupying my time in the shop this winter I still haven't gotten back to work on it yet but this discussion has reminded me that I'm way overdue for finding time to finish it, mostly it just needs finial surface finishing on the both the wood and metal and a trip to the bluing tanks.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171427-My-special-project

[KLR]

Thanks for the link, Oldred. That's some amazing craftsmanship.

If I were dumb enough to try this myself, are these the plans to get?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-1885-Single-Shot-High-Wall-Rifle-Drawings-/161202839609?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item2588702039

[oldred]

That's the set, I wish I had of had those when I built mine, it sure would have saved a lot of head scratching!


I have a buddy who bought that plans set intending to build one for himself and after looking them over I was really impressed with them, there is also a rather ratty looking copy of some of the original drawings but these are in addition to the real plans and are not meant to be used they are just included for historical interest. Nothing dumb at all trying to do this and in fact if you decide to try I think you might just be surprised at how much fun this hobby can be! You do not need a shop full of equipment and the only piece of real machinery I had was my lathe, I built a simple milling attachment using less than $100 worth of parts from Enco, that "Tool post mill" contraption in the pic and various hand tools is all I used. I made extensive use of my files and a porta-band saw from Harbor Freight, these were used to make almost all the small internal parts and the milling attachment was only used for roughing in the receiver and breech block. The external shaping of the rough receiver was done with files just like back "in the day" and goes a lot faster than might be imagined, doing it this way is not at all impractical and was actually a very enjoyable part of the project.

[Old School Big Bore]

I've always wished 'someone' would offer baby rolling blocks like the old Navy Arms models, and baby falling blocks, and CF Stevens Favorites, in pistol or cool little rimmed rifle calibers. Now there are 80% Low Walls, full size High Walls and Rolling Blocks by Uberti, Pedersoli, etc, but they picked mostly goofy calibers and COST TOO MUCH...
And I'm too timid to launch on a project like this. Barreling, polishing, bluing and stocking, no problem, but all that block/lever/lockwork fitting is just plain over my head. Congrats to you guys that have completed homebuilts, and if you ever want to sell an action that would work with some cartridge based on a .32-20 or .38 or .44 spl case, here I am...

[Alphawolf45]

Oldred
Youre the exception to the rule. I have been following build threads since 2005 and (online)you are the only guy that has ever finished a Highwall build-----well other than myself.......The Winchester highwall falling block is so difficult that I think it is very BAD to encourage anybody to try as a first build.
Okay..... Much aggravation so that in the BPCR Silhouette competitions there isn't any competition from home builders....If YOU will tell me where and when you compete in that match I will come join the fun and we will compete head to head. Then for once you can compare your rifle against another fellow shooting a home built rifle...Pretty awesome that a guy can whoop fellows shooting rifles costing 10 times as much. Of course we all build accurate rifles and then it comes down to who can shoot......Want to compete?

[oldred]

I doubt I will ever shoot any kind of competition but I sure would like to attend a shoot sometime. My rifle seems quite accurate to me but then I'm only shooting open sights and have nothing else in it's class to compare it to, even with a good set of sights I seriously doubt I could ever be competitive even if the rifle was up to the task. I guess it's a case of me just enjoying working with these things even more so than shooting them, but shooting sure is a ton of fun also!

[KLR]

Oldred, Thanks for the encouragement. I have a lathe and I have already cobbled together way to mill small parts on it. I used a heavy piece of angle iron to mount a tool post slide vertically to give me a couple of inches of up and down movement. I made an end mill holder and chucked that in the headstock. Worked fine for milling an AR receiver and I'll bet it would work for this too if I took small cuts.

[oldred]

I used a small cheap milling table from Enco, I removed the center section and the slotted table slide right onto the base then it was attached to a heavy angle plate fastened to the cross slide. In combination with the cross slide itself this gave me a reasonable amount of travel in all axis but of course with that table mounted vertically set-up was a pain in the rump sometimes, once everything was fastened down however it worked quite well. Another item I got that helped tremendously was an ER 32 collet chuck then later on a rotary table which also helped a lot. I found this to be a very challenging project but challenging in the sense that it was fun and interesting, I suppose difficulty depends on whether something is fun or frustrating. I found the trick was to be patient, pay attention to detail and make each part as close to perfect as practical and then when I went to assemble it everything actually worked like it was supposed to except for finial fitting.

[terryt]

Hi Everyone:

Again I want to thank everyone who replied. I do have a drill press and found a compound table and brought it. I also found a fellow who has a lathe and a mill and will do some of the machine work for me.

I would like some recommendations for a barrel maker. I AM GOING TO BUILD IT IN EITHER .22 HORNET OR .218 BEE.

Thanks,

Terryt

[oldred]

Check out the entire site but these gunsmith specials are some real bargains,

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/new-gunsmith-edition-raw-barrel-blanks/

[uscra112]

Check out the entire site but these gunsmith specials are some real bargains,

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/new-gunsmith-edition-raw-barrel-blanks/

Man, they're just about givin' those away, ain't they !

[uscra112]

Hi Everyone:

Again I want to thank everyone who replied. I do have a drill press and found a compound table and brought it. I also found a fellow who has a lathe and a mill and will do some of the machine work for me.

I would like some recommendations for a barrel maker. I AM GOING TO BUILD IT IN EITHER .22 HORNET OR .218 BEE.

Thanks,


Terryt

Bear in mind that milling on that will be limited to VERY light work, because the drill press chuck is just a friction fit on the spindle nose taper. Not that I haven't been seen doing it. . . . . . . The first "milling machine" I ever had was just that - am X-Y table on a drill press. 1964, that was. How time flieth.

[uscra112]

I wonder if anybody has plans for a Farrow action? That has to have the lowest parts count of any falling-block I've ever seen.

[oldred]

Bear in mind that milling on that will be limited to VERY light work, because the drill press chuck is just a friction fit on the spindle nose taper. Not that I haven't been seen doing it. . . . . . . The first "milling machine" I ever had was just that - am X-Y table on a drill press. 1964, that was. How time flieth.

Sorry but I am going to have to strongly disagree with the suggestion a drill press can be used for a mill even for light milling, that's simply a recipe for disaster!!!!

I assume he intended to use that compound table for drill locating and not milling, at least I hope that's what he meant! NEVER EVER attempt to mill with a drill press, not even light milling! In the first place all but the best built drill presses are going to have too much slop in the spindle and there simply will be too much flex to achieve decent results but the real problem is that it's next to impossible to keep the chuck attached because it's secured only by the friction fit. The chuck is of course held by two tapers usually a Morse taper in the drill press spindle and a Jacobs taper in the chuck, while it's sometimes possible to secure the taper in the spindle it is far more difficult to secure the more acute angle Jacobs taper in the chuck. That taper fit when subjected to a side load will loosen the friction grip on the loaded side and as the chuck spins the effect will be cumulative and spread around the entire circumference of the arbor OD then add to this the effect of the end mill tending to apply downward pull due to the spiral flutes and the result is loss of grip even with a light loading, a heavy load will cause the chuck to fall off quickly but a light just takes a little longer -it will still fall off! For this reason a drill chuck should NEVER EVER be used for milling purposes, not in a drill press or even a real milling machine because it will lead to disaster!

I know most of the guys here who use these machines already know this but it's very common for someone to be tempted to use a drill press to mill with which can lead to a lot of grief, I know some might say they have done it and they MIGHT get away with it for a while but when (not if!) that chuck falls off while the mill is engaged in a piece of steel it's going to get exciting in a hurry!!! The best outcome will be a broken end mill but it can easily result in a ruined part or personal injury, besides with all the flex and slop encountered in almost all home shop drill presses milling results would be very poor even if the equipment manages to stay together long enough to finish the job.

[oldred]

After having said all that there MAY be a safe way to use a drill press to mill with but it won't do a thing for the slop and other issues that will cause a poor job, a person can buy end mill holders with the proper Morse taper (usually a MT2 for home type presses, CHECK first!). This might be made to work providing a method can be devised to mechanically secure the end mill holder in the drill, if the spindle is open at the top then a piece of all-thread rod can be used as a draw bar to hold it in place like in a mill but if not then maybe another method could be devised. DO NOT try to use just friction alone to hold this together, those who say a drill press is ok to mill with have yet to have a two pound chuck with an end mill spinning at 500 hundred RPM chase them around the shop like a spinning top with sharp teeth!!!

[uscra112]

When did you ever see a consumer-size drill press with a Morse socket in the spindle? I never have, and I was in the machine tool business from 1977 to 1994.

BTW when the chuck breaks loose it stops rotating instantly if the cutter is engaged, and goes nowhere. Been there, done that.

[oldred]

I have an OLD Craftsman with a MT2 socket but you're right most small drill presses have a Jacobs taper right on the end of the shaft but a method of securing the Morse taper end taper (if the drill has one) can usually be found anyway, the Jacobs taper in the chuck can not be secured however. 1986 in Kentucky a foreman at a mine where I worked was in his basement doing this very thing, trying to mill some Aluminum when the drill chuck started to vibrate so he lifted the spindle only to have that chuck shoot out like it was spring loaded! Unfortunately it's path of travel took it across his left forearm leaving a gash that required surgery followed by weeks of therapy! That's just one I personally know of and there was another one here locally last year but that one involved a router bit chucked in a drill press trying to work a piece of hardwood, the principle is still the same however. When that chuck breaks loose it very well might stop, or not, but what has happened to the end mill and the work by that time? What about the lack of any semblance of quality with those loose spindles and all that lack of rigidity even if it manages to hold together? The problem is doing this is dangerous, it can (will) eventually result in broken tooling, damage to the drill press and quite possibly personal injury and all for no real gain since the quality of the work will be so poor anyway. I don't see how anyone could recommend doing something as hazardous as this, honestly I am not trying to be argumentative but like I said it is dangerous and I personally know of the two incidents that involved injury, in the case of that one in KY a very serious injury, and I have read of several more close calls.


This question comes up frequently on Machine shop sites and when it does it recieves almost universal condemnation of the idea, there's a good reason for it.

Just one of many such discussions.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40766

Just a quote from one poster in that thread,

" I tried doing some light slot milling on mine several years ago using an xy vise. The results were less than satisfactory and a couple times the cutting forces pulled the chuck out of the column. Besides a crash which broke the mill I ended up dancing to avoid one rapidly spinning chuck. After 2 mills and one dance I hung it up as a bad idea."

[nekshot]

Thank God I never was tempted to try mill with a drill press. Heard enuff wild detailed accounts around the shop of this practise to know I didn't want to go there. Mill type machines are reasonable if you have patience and watch sale bills.

[oldred]

Those little mini-mills from Harbor Freight, Grizzly and a host of others selling the same thing under a different name can be very useful if a person buys one with the knowledge beforehand that it will be more of a mill kit rather than a ready-to-go mill. HF has these things on sale regularly for less than $500 and they turn up on places like Craig's List for a lot less than that usually with a bunch of extras included. They need some work to be usable, the well known "head drop" problem needs to be dealt with but that's easy and cheap by using a small cable and some pulleys to suspend a weight down the back of the mill to support the head. The ways will absolutely need some serious work to rid them of the tight spots but again this is simple and cheap, just use a light lapping compound on them and slide the table back and forth by hand while occasionally tightening the gibbs until it slides smoothly with no tight spots. The big problem is rigidity in the column, or rather lack of rigidity, since these things are about as rigid as a piece of rubber the way they come from the factory! That so called "tilting" feature for the column is the biggest source of the problem and it's not really a feature at all but is in fact all but totally useless, it's touted as a big plus for allowing the column to be angled but in reality it's only purpose was to allow the factory to cast the mill frame in two simple flat parts instead of a much larger and complex angled part that would be more expensive to finish to any degree of accuracy. This is reflected in the fact that the exact same mill with a solid one piece frame and without this so-called feature is about $75 higher in cost! This column MUST be braced using various methods of which many are covered on various forums on the 'net.

I mention this mill because after helping a buddy modify his I discovered that what a lot of folks consider a piece of complete junk can be turned into a really nice piece of equipment for a very attractive price. Going this route will result in a much better piece of equipment than trying to modify something to do a job it was never designed to do, most of those home shop type drill presses are not even up to the task of accurately doing the job they are meant for let alone being used for something they are not designed to do. The little HF mills are not much more in cost than a decent drill press and within their size limits they can do very accurate work and do it in a reasonable amount of time, I have been truly impressed with the mill I helped with and so far he has less than $400 in the entire set-up. $300 for the mill used, but it included nearly that much in tooling and extras such as a vise, etc, and less than $100 in mods. Even that $100 spent modifying it included making a pan to set the mill in so he could rig up a flow type cooling system!

I keep referring to Harbor Freight because if someone wanted to buy a new one HF is the place to get it! These EXACT SAME mills are sold under many different names and prices but HF beats them all for price

[BCRider]

When did you ever see a consumer-size drill press with a Morse socket in the spindle? ........

I guess it depends on your idea of a "consumer size" machine. I bought a 1/2 hp press something like 30 years back from the Canadian equivalent of Grizzly Tools and it uses a #2 MT arbor on the chuck to fit the press. It's got a 4 inch column and it's a benchtop model with a 10 or 12 inch round table. It was the smallest drill press that used a MT socket in the quill. It's also about as small as I'd want to go even in a home shop if metal working is one of the goals.

Back when I was stupid and feeling poor I got a cross feed vise and found that milling in the drill press is tough because the arbor kept coming loose. I got around this by using a hollow drawbar MT2 end mill holder and making up a little cross key to fit in the knockout slot of the quill. A LONG T wrench was used to pinch tighten a #10 screw to secure the holder in the quill by screwing into that little cross key. I've still got the kit I made up but I only ever used it in anger a very few times on wood, plastic and aluminium before I got a mill/drill and never used it again.

Even with this upgrade milling in the drill press is only "just" possible. In practice it totally sucks and I don't recommend it to anyone regardless of how desparate you even THINK you are. In the end the ONLY application I can say that it worked decently at was mortise slotting wood. And even that got exciting if I was working with a hardwood.

[uscra112]

It's going to roil the waters further, but I did do it for 2-3 years back in the '60s. Little aluminum parts for a prototype spectrometer. Stuff that would fit in a small matchbox. It was a shoestring operation, and that's what we had, so I did it. 1/8" diameter mills, depth of cut maybe 1/16". It got the job done. I also cut rectangular aluminum plates out on a Shopsmith, using a 6" diameter carbide-tipped slitting saw. OSHA would have a fit today, I'm sure.

When I moved to MI in 1994 I had to sell my US Burke, but soon bought one of those "post" type mill-drill machines. I think it cost about $700 at the time, from Production Tool, just outside Detroit. R8 spindle, so at least what tooling I kept still worked. Still have it. It does well enough that I don't feel too handicapped. It grew a DRO on the X-axis. My only real problem is the short X axis. It's only about 12", and I sure could use twice that for some jobs.

[lkydvl]

With all the talk here about building a receiver I thought I would post what I have available in case someone would be interested in them.

These are Clerke 1885 Highwall copies made by Bo Clerke decades ago. These are the receiver castings. Some have someminor work done to them but none are complete.

They all take 1885 parts internally. Below is a link to what I have available. I have far too many projects to ever get to these and would like to see them completed by someone.

95735
95738
95739
95737

If there is interest I will dig them out and get some pricing details figured up.

Thanks,

Andre`

[M-Tecs]

Depending on price I am interested.

[KLR]

Depending on price I am interested.

Me too.

[nekshot]

yup, I am interested also!

[bearcove]

me too. I already have too many projects Whats another gonna hurt

[oldred]

I see the receiver casting (the major part of course) and levers is there anything else? If not I have copies of the factory drawings of the internal parts if any of you guys need them. As I have mentioned before I have a buddy who bought the drawings and started a project that's now on "long term" hold but I had the drawings here for a while and scanned most of the internal parts pages. That receiver appears to be significantly different in outward appearance vs the High Wall but since it takes High Wall internals that shouldn't matter.


These things make a darn good looking rifle,

http://doantrevor.com/2013/10/23/single-shot-bo-clerke-rifle/

[EDIT]Apparently these receivers do not take stock 1885 parts if they are the same as the rifle in that link, just looking at those pics in the link it's obvious that although it is almost identical in operation to an 1885 the parts are not the same, the lever, trigger group, breech block and the extractor appear quite different (at least the bottom of the extractor is very different) to stock 1885 parts and if that rifle in the link is the same as these castings I guess those drawings I have would not help much. Still these casting are an EXCELLENT starting point and I'm sure parts can be made that would work.

[lkydvl]

Sorry for the delay in responding..

Did some pricing research on Ebay, GB and other forums' classifieds, etc.


Based on those selling prices I'm asking $200 for a receiver and lever. I don't have any other parts except the lone breechblock. Not sure if I'll sell that until the last receiver or as part of a sale of the whole lot. I'm not married to these, just priced them based on what I found similar going for.

I'm open to trades on them as well. Doesn't have to be single shot stuff. Am always interested in reloading dies, especially odd ball, wildcats, old calibers. Dan Wesson revolvers, are always good ! I need a 375 barrel blank for a couple projects, Tasco Pro Class pistol scopes above 2X, or just shoot me a PM with what you have. I might say yes!

Andre`

[oldred]

Are these for the same rifle as in this link?

http://doantrevor.com/2013/10/23/single-shot-bo-clerke-rifle/

If so, and it sure looks like it to me, the internals are not the same as the 1885. It's obviously the same basic design but nothing shown in those pictures are the same as the 1885, the lever is very different (not just the "lever" portion but all of it including how it interacts with the trigger group), the breech block is waaaaay wider and there is no cut-out on the left side for the extractor so obviously it works differently than the 1885 and the entire lower tang is quite different also. Do you have any prints for these receivers? Without prints or a finished receiver to reverse engineer these internals will be very difficult to produce.


:EDIT: Ok I see the breech block casting in the pic now, I missed it before, and sure enough it is radically different than an 1885 breech block so apparently these castings are indeed the same as the rifle in the link. Unless drawings are available or finished parts can be found to copy anyone building one of these rifles will have to design parts to fit, for sure 1885 Winchester parts can not be used.

[uscra112]

Are these for the same rifle as in this link?

http://doantrevor.com/2013/10/23/single-shot-bo-clerke-rifle/

If so, and it sure looks like it to me, the internals are not the same as the 1885. It's obviously the same basic design but nothing shown in those pictures are the same as the 1885, the lever is very different (not just the "lever" portion but all of it including how it interacts with the trigger group), the breech block is waaaaay wider and there is no cut-out on the left side for the extractor so obviously it works differently than the 1885 and the entire lower tang is quite different also. Do you have any prints for these receivers? Without prints or a finished receiver to reverse engineer these internals will be very difficult to produce.


:EDIT: Ok I see the breech block casting in the pic now, I missed it before, and sure enough it is radically different than an 1885 breech block so apparently these castings are indeed the same as the rifle in the link. Unless drawings are available or finished parts can be found to copy anyone building one of these rifles will have to design parts to fit, for sure 1885 Winchester parts can not be used.

I've been sitting on two of these un-finished receivers for about ten years, wondering what the internals looked like, since nothing from my own 1885 High Walls is even close.

There was a thread a few years ago about an example that turned up with a "Borchardt" design breechblock in one of these castings. Fella that had it promised us photos of the internals, but he never came through. :(

BTW I had them x-rayed before I retired from Zeiss. They looked decent.

[lkydvl]

Thanks for the correction... too bad the parts diagrams for the '85 won't work. Guess that is going to force my hand....

I have a complete Clerke receiver with the internals as well. Was hoping to save it and make a rifle out of it. However since there is a need for its parts as a pattern I'm afraid that is no longer an option. I'll get pics of it this evening and post them as well.

Andre`

[oldred]

Are these finished parts or raw castings? Even if they are just raw castings they could still be finished even without drawings but it will take a bit of design work and a whole bunch of head scratchin! With the number of receivers you have and the interest from uscra112 for a couple more those internals you have may be the key to a batch of fine looking rifles! If you can some close ups of those parts would be nice, especially the extractor, firing pin with any related parts and the lever with the breech block link.


This is getting very interesting!!!!

[lkydvl]

Here are some pics of the two additional receivers. One is a complete serial numbered receiver with all internal parts fitted.

The other is incomplete but has the partially completed breech block and lever installed.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211125_zpsbda33f79.jpg[/URL]
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211142_zps5756e61d.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/lkydvl/media/20140210_211142_zps5756e61d.jpg.html)
IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211218_zpsf8d9408b.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211204_zpsa294db66.jpg[/URL]



http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211211_zps0cefc0c0.jpg[/URL]
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/lkydvl/20140210_211156_zpsa399c8a4.jpg

[oldred]

If that first receiver is 100% complete and functions properly , and I assume it does, you have the key to making it possible to complete the rest of them without having to design new internals as well as build them. What you need to do would be to disassemble that working receiver and make, or have made, detailed drawings with precise dimensions of all the parts with PRECISE hole locations and all angles determined. I can not stress strongly enough the importance of accuracy in whatever drawings may be produced because even one error in the wrong place, even a seemingly minor one, could easily trash the whole project however a bit of attention to detail will prevent this from happening. Without accurate drawings John Moses Browning might be able to scratch build the internals for one of those things easy enough but for the rest of us it would be a daunting task indeed!

[lkydvl]

My lot of receivers and parts has been sold!

[oldred]

My lot of receivers and parts has been sold!



Well that's one way to put an end to the dilemma! :mrgreen: