Pistol boolits in 356 Winchester?

[DonMountain]

I have on old 356 Winchester Model 94 AE that I have never bought a boolit mold for since my wife just uses it for deer hunting shooting 220 grain Speer J-bullets I loaded a bunch of years ago. I tried experimenting with the rifle with some purchased lead boolits to make some plinking loads. They are Hornady #10508, 158 grain LRN 38 caliber handgun boolits measuring .358" in diameter. I bought these boolits many years ago to shoot in a 38 S&W in the form of an old English, military top break revolver. I couldn't hit anything with them in the revolver and later discovered that it required boolits measuring 0.361" or so to shoot properly. Anyway, I tried shooting some of these boolits over 22.0 grains of SR4759 powder and Winchester WLR primers in Winchester cases for the rifle, and found that it can only hold an 18" pattern at 50 yards. And this is shooting with an 8 power scope. It can hold a 2" group with the Speer bullets at 100 yards from a bench. So, can anybody suggest a different powder or load that might improve these groups with these lead boolits? Or are they just not usable in the 356 Winchester? I don't have any other 0.358" firearms to use them in and thought I might be able to do something with them in the 356 Winchester.

[bearcove]

Look in the lyman manuals they have cast loads for 35 rem and 358 win. They are all reduced loads. Give you a good starting place

[Nobade]

My 358 works well with pistol bullets and Trail Boss powder. That load you tried is WAY too hot for plain base soft lead bullets. Once you clean all the lead out of the bore, try running them at about 1200 fps, propelled by fast burning flake powder like Red Dot, maybe 6 grains or so of it or Trail Boss if you have any.

-Nobade

[DonMountain]

My 358 works well with pistol bullets and Trail Boss powder. That load you tried is WAY too hot for plain base soft lead bullets. Once you clean all the lead out of the bore, try running them at about 1200 fps, propelled by fast burning flake powder like Red Dot, maybe 6 grains or so of it or Trail Boss if you have any.

-Nobade

That would leave an awful lot of empty space in the case wouldn't it? Do you suggest a piece of Dacron filler?

[nekshot]

yup, when I read 22 gr I also thought there in lies your problem. After all is clean as obade suggested you will be impressed. DO NOT let your wife shoot those reduced loads or she might want them for all shooting needs.

[Nobade]

That would leave an awful lot of empty space in the case wouldn't it? Do you suggest a piece of Dacron filler?

I don't use any filler of any type with Red Dot or other similar fast shotgun powder. It doesn't care, it'll light off with less than a 20% fill with no problem. The Trail Boss fills the case.

-Nobade

[DonMountain]

I don't use any filler of any type with Red Dot or other similar fast shotgun powder. It doesn't care, it'll light off with less than a 20% fill with no problem. The Trail Boss fills the case.

-Nobade

I don't have any Red Dot because I think they don't make it anymore. It hasn't been available here for about a year now. So for shotgun I switched to Promo, which is advertised as a direct replacement for Red Dot. Is Promo a direct replacement for Red Dot by weight for pistol/rifle use also? I have never seen Trail Boss for sale around here.

[DonMountain]

yup, when I read 22 gr I also thought there in lies your problem. After all is clean as obade suggested you will be impressed. DO NOT let your wife shoot those reduced loads or she might want them for all shooting needs.

My wife killed a 12 point buck at 190 yards two years ago with this 356 Winchester shooting the 220 Speer J bullets. She will probably just laugh when she hears 6 grains of Red Dot go off under a 158 grain lead boolit. We are in a running competition each year on who gets the biggest buck. So far she is the winner. But I bet she would like a reduced load for shooting at the squirrels in her Pecan tree next to the kitchen window.

[helice]

NoBade is right on. I have a 350 Remington Magnum in which I have shot pistol boolits with Red Dot and 700X(4-5 grains). Works very well. Run them out slow like a 38 and they work fine.

[Nobade]

Yep, Promo works fine too.

-Nobade

[DonMountain]

Yep, Promo works fine too.

-Nobade

Ok, lets see, at 6 grains of Promo for each cartridge, how many will I get out of an 8 pound jug of Promo?

[Nobade]

Ok, lets see, at 6 grains of Promo for each cartridge, how many will I get out of an 8 pound jug of Promo?

9,333.

[bearcove]

Bullseye works too, When I reloaded 12ga 700x worked.

[Idaho Mule]

Don, both of the .356's that I load for prefer a boolit sized to .359. I have not tried any smaller pistol boolits in them yet, but after reading this thread I may have to. I bet the rcbs 158 cm would do ok in them for a fun plinker. JW I lied, checked my manual this morning and I am sizing to .360 for those two. JW

[scattershot]

I don't have any Red Dot because I think they don't make it anymore. It hasn't been available here for about a year now. So for shotgun I switched to Promo, which is advertised as a direct replacement for Red Dot. Is Promo a direct replacement for Red Dot by weight for pistol/rifle use also? I have never seen Trail Boss for sale around here.

They still make Red Dot, and it's a fine powder. Promo is Red Dot without the dots, and can be used weight for weight (NOT volume) with Red Dot data.