Marlin, 2014

[ReloaderFred]

I just got back from the SHOT Show and in talking to one of the Marlin reps, he was enthusiastic about Marlin's offerings for 2014. He said they were installing new equipment and software, and that the new 1894's would be the best ever offered under the Marlin name. He said the first productions would be in .38/.357, .44 and .45 Colt. He said they even planned on producing the .41 Magnum again in the future, and when I asked about Ballard rifling, he gave me a big grin, but no real answer.

He asked what calibers they should explore next, and I suggested .32-20 and .44-40, and he wrote them down, so they must be doing a survey to see what's popular and would sell.

He gave us the impression they had dismantled the 1894 production line and were in the process of installing the new machinery, and were hoping to get it up and running soon. The only problem is, they've raised the price point, but he promised excellent quality in fit and finish. The only 1894C they had in their display was the same one they had last year at the show, so I'm assuming they haven't been making them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[youngda9]

The best Marlins...or the best Marlins produced by Remington.

There is a world of difference between the two.

[dragon813gt]

Modern machinery that will produce parts that require very little hand fitting should mean the best Marlins ever. I have a Remington produced 1894C and there isn't a thing wrong w/ it. Some people don't like the forends on them. I don't mind them being a little thicker.

The option is they produce a better firearm or people won't buy them. If that happens Marlin goes away as a company which no one wants. I'm hopeful that they will start producing great rifles again. And hopefully the stocks are made in the same plant so the fit gets a little better.

[9w1911]

wish I could ask them some questions, I have a 44mag lever that has been nothing but problems until recently(or until the new carrier wears out arrgghh), I have one of the first remlins ever, marlin receiver w a Rem barrel whoohoo, anyway first question is WTH is the carrier made from a softer material than the lever, why not machine the carrier out of a harder steel?
ARRGGGHH

[youngda9]

Yep...the Remlins are garbage. I owned one and handled many dozens.

[hickstick_10]

Remingtons custom shop couldn't turn out a decent gun, I have a hard time thinking the regular production has a chance.

[james6600]

I'm glad to hear it, I'll buy a few just to play with. For that matter I can buy two or three for the same price as one of the foreign Winny clones, save a Rossi. Any mention of when they will release or take orders? I missed my chance on the last 32-20 run not to mention I need a 45,44 and a 357, I have almost broke down and spent the inflated G-Broker prices more than once.

[John Allen]

I would be hard pressed to buy a new marlin. I just do not trust the quality. I would rather spend extra and get a clean older one or a Rossi puma. Lets hope the new winchesters are winners I have been trying to figure an ecuse to get a 73.

[Doc_Stihl]

If a Marlin 1894 in 41 magnum became available tomorrow for reasonable money I'd have one.

[06ackley]

^^^ What he said!!

[starmac]

I have a remlin I have no complaints about (other than I don't like the safety) That said I wouldn't have expected for him to be telling anyone that they would be manufacturing junk when they resume production. lol With todays machinery there is no reason that top shelf firearms aren't the norm.

[FergusonTO35]

If they bring back the 1894 Cowboy in .357 I would be willing to give it a chance. That octagonal barrel with Ballard rifling would be perfect for stout hunting loads. I spent some quality time with my own 1894C today and was reminded why they are such great guns.

[Gtek]

Yea, can't wait. The matte blasted finish is going to look real sexy on an octagon lever. Gtek

[Nrut]

ReloaderFred,
Thanks for that report..
The .41 mag really peaks my interest..
I'll be getting one if .41 brass is available..

To you Remington haters, you are a riot!

While I don't have a Remlin I have 6 Marlin levers made in the old plant..

1. 25-20 fired cases look like a double bottleneck..
only cure is to rechamber to a .256 winchester..
2. 30-30CB haven't fired it looks good on the outside, no comment..
3. .357 94 carbine, shoots very well thankyou..
4. .357CB shoots well also..
5. 38-55CB even with Starline brass it won't chamber a .382" bullet >> lovely!
6. 45-70 SS Guide Gun perhaps one of the most practical rifles I have for hunting the bush up here..
Shoots ok with but not consistent..
I will keep it even though the wood metal fit sucks and it has a rather large grinding mark on its tang..
I wanted to buy a Marlin94 in .45Colt, and .41mag. in addition to the rifles above but after my experience with them, forget it..


ReloaderFred, did you see any other interesting stuff at the shot show?

Spill the beans!
LOL

[TheGrimReaper]

If a Marlin 1894 in 41 magnum became available tomorrow for reasonable money I'd have one.

you and I both!!!

[Scharfschuetze]

Thanks for the update Reloaderfred!

Hopefully Marlin/Remington can comeback from the quality abyss much like Winchester did after their fiasco in 1964. I too would be very interested in a .41 Magnum to compliment my .41 revolver.

[osteodoc08]

you and I both!!! Especially in stainless.

To be honest, I was disappointed in the 1895SBL I looked at in the LGS over the weekend. The Stainless bits like the endcap didnt match and stood out liek a sore thumb, the rail wasnt evenly finished and the wood to metal fit was atrocious. Had the wood the metal fit been on par, I could have overlooked the other issues. I've seen some decent ones lately, but this was the worst of the dozen or so newer remlins I've looked at.

[kayak1]

Especially in stainless.

To be honest, I was disappointed in the 1895SBL I looked at in the LGS over the weekend. The Stainless bits like the endcap didnt match and stood out liek a sore thumb, the rail wasnt evenly finished and the wood to metal fit was atrocious. Had the wood the metal fit been on par, I could have overlooked the other issues. I've seen some decent ones lately, but this was the worst of the dozen or so newer remlins I've looked at.

Was this new production or old stock? I have had a 1895SLB on order since April and hoped that they had the bugs worked out.

[osteodoc08]

Was this new production or old stock? I have had a 1895SLB on order since April and hoped that they had the bugs worked out.

Not sure on the dating. It did have the REP stamp. It was new to the the LGS (arrived the past week or so).

Like I said, the wood to metal fit was the biggest deal for me. It was very sloppy. The other stuff I could overlook as they were, in my mind, rather minor. The forecap coloring didnt match as well as I'd like.

That's not to say it wasnt functional, but knowing the wood to metal fit would irk me to death, i left it on the rack. They wanted $850 for it. Not sure how that stacks up price wise.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=378539337

That is plain lunacy as far as price goes (esp for a USED gun). Metal to wood fit here is decent, not great. You can kinda see how the forend cap is slightly off from the stainless of the barrel and receiver.

[starmac]

My stainless guide guns wood to metal fit is nothing to write home about, and it is a genuine marlin, in fact judging by the marlins on my rack, fit and finish has been a **** shoot for lots of years before remington came into the picture.

[cbrick]

A word of caution for those interested in a new Marlin, take a bore scope with you and have a good look at the rifling before you buy. Unless they have changed radically in the last couple of years there isn't one I would have at any price. Looking down the bore with just the eye and it looked great, looking down the bore with the bore scope was a different story. I was looking for 45-70 a few years ago and took the bore scope with me to three different stores and looked at several Marlins. Looking at the bores was shocking, every one of them looked like they were hacked out with a chisel and there wasn't a one of them that I would or did buy. These were the worst bores I have ever looked at new or used.

The reason I wanted to look at the bores of brand new Marlins was because I bought a used 94C in 45 Colt and it had the horrid bore. I sent it back to Marlin for a new barrel, my dime and what came back was worse than what I sent to them to take off. I looked at 8-10 Marlin bores before I gave up, no Marlin for me thanks.

Rick

[btroj]

Come on Rick, a retired guy like yourself needs a project gun. You could ask Tim for advice on loading for a handgun cartridge.....

[FergusonTO35]

The biggest problem I see with Remlins is the fact that production was moved from one expensive, anti-gun place to another. I think that they made a huge mistake in not moving Marlin to a new location altogether that is alot cheaper and less hostile while they had the opportunity. I know my state would welcome them, the rimfires are already made here in Mayfield.

[ReloaderFred]

Remington knows how to make good barrels. I've got a Model 700 Varminter in .223 that will shoot 5 rounds into 5/8" at 200 yards, and I've got the target I shot the group with. My other Remington rifles are also shooters, so if they install new machinery for their barrels, and it's up to the old standards, then I'll buy one.

I've got well over a dozen Marlin lever action rifles, and the quality varies from good to average, and all of them were from the old Marlin. I'm willing to give Remington a chance, and I think starting a whole new production line is a step in the right direction.

As for the SHOT Show, it was mind boggling again this year. NSSF reported there were 67,000 attendees, and I wouldn't doubt it a bit. There were 12.5 miles of aisles, and we walked about 9 of them, since we weren't interested in the LEO/Military portion (too many shaved heads and bloused trousers, and wannabe's). Other than a 10mm upper for one of my AR's from Olympic Arms, some AR 500 targets, an electronic lock for one of my safes and a large order of Berry's Bullets, I didn't order much at the show. I did place an advance order for the Blue Book of Gun Values that will be coming out in April. The price on the Blue Book has gone up to $50.00......

Hodgdon is discontinuing their 4007 rifle powder in 2014, and SR 7625 and PB in 2015. They said there were too many powders that would do the same thing as those powders, so they're doing away with some of the duplication.

Powder and primers are going to be in short supply for the next year or so. They all reported working 3 shifts a day, 7 days a week, and still can't catch up with the demand. Prices are also expected to stay up, since the cost of raw materials is staying up.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[starmac]

I never seen any 75 dollar Marlins in 77, that must have been some kind of special. In 78 I paid 135 bucks iirc for a used ruger 44 mag carbine. A friend of mine bought a marlin about the same time, but I have no idea what he paid.

[cbrick]

I don't remember Miller's and B&B has been gone for several years now, the city regulated and taxed them right out of business.

Rick

[shredder]

Glad to hear a great company is continuing to stay in the market. I simply love my brand new Remlin 336C in .35 Rem. The wood is really nice and it runs like a champ. Very accurate too.

[seaboltm]

I have a remlin I have no complaints about (other than I don't like the safety) That said I wouldn't have expected for him to be telling anyone that they would be manufacturing junk when they resume production. lol With todays machinery there is no reason that top shelf firearms aren't the norm.

Yep. My Remlin is fine, and was fine out of the box. I have owned many original Marlins in just about every caliber out there, and notice no difference that upsets me too much. Wood fit/finish is touch and go, but that seems to be the trend these days in all but the most expensive lines. Even the great Ruger No 1 isn't noted for fantastic wood to metal fit, and never has been.

[robertbank]

I have a 336 Remlin and it shoots well enough. For a US Production gun it is what it is. If you want quality you have to pay for it. For around $500Cdn I am happy with the value for dollar paid.

A friend has two Uberti 1873's in .357mag. They are beautiful well made guns with excellent fit and finish. They do cost though. Up here they run to $1,800 for the top of the line. Too, I have seen the Japanese made Win '94's and they appear better made, fit and finish than anything the old Winchester plant put out in the last 50 years. No wonder Winchester went broke. Again the Japanese guns cost but so does quality. Paying top dollar and getting sub standard isn't a business model I would want to be peddling in today's internet driven market. Poor quality reputations get around the consumer marketplace rather quickly these days.

Take Care

Bob

[Dr. A]

I have Marlins dating from 1936 to two weeks ago. I've got about 30 of them, and have sold a couple. I have learned that Marlin's quality has varied from year to year, not just since Remington came along. Obviously change comes hard and I've been patiently waiting to get another 30-30 with Ballard rifling. I have a 336CB that is fantastic, but given the shot count, I wanted to hedge my bets, save my gun a bit and get another shooter. The XLR's have ballard rifling and long barrels which is my cup of tea. I have shot over 200 rounds through it. Its got slightly proud laminate, but other wise is a perfect gun. Machining is neat, clean and the gun shoots as well as nearly anything else I've got. Its got a 1 to 12 twist so its ideal for cast. I'm very enthusiastic about the gun. I've not been a big fan of the current wood offerings, so was OK with getting a laminate gun I didn't care about the looks of. I do have an 2 other XLR's made by the real Marlin. One was fantastic, and the other had problems that needed addressed, but had to be addressed by Remington. They did take care of the problem. I don't think I've just gotten used to shoddy workmanship. I do appreciate a job well made. I'm sure there are still lemons being turned out, but perhaps they are fewer and farther between. I've been pleasantly surprised with my new gun.

[Fishman]

.327 Federal? .32 magnum? I need one.

[Outpost75]

I would like to see them produce "tactical" leverguns in "cop" calibers, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, with 18" barrels and factory equipped with ghost ring peep, Picattiny rail and sturdy blade front sight with ears, like an M14 front sight.

Perfect as politically correct home defence short rifle to accompany your pistol.

[starmac]

I would like to see them produce "tactical" leverguns in "cop" calibers, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, with 18" barrels and factory equipped with ghost ring peep, Picattiny rail and sturdy blade front sight with ears, like an M14 front sight.

Perfect as politically correct home defence short rifle to accompany your pistol.

Then we could call them mossbergs. lol

[dragon813gt]

I would like to see them produce "tactical" leverguns in "cop" calibers, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, with 18" barrels and factory equipped with ghost ring peep, Picattiny rail and sturdy blade front sight with ears, like an M14 front sight.

Perfect as politically correct home defence short rifle to accompany your pistol.

I'm unable to see colored text so please tell me this is in purple?

[mainiac]

Ya, the old ones had issues as well. I have one of the old 336-a models, first year 336 (1948?),,anyways, it is actually a 31-30,,i have to shoot a .312 boolit to fill the bore,then they wont chamber so i have to use neck-turned brass,,but it does shoot well,and has very nice tiger-striped walnut stock,,so its a keeper....

[cbrick]

Ya, the old ones had issues as well. I have one of the old 336-a models, first year 336 (1948?),,anyways, it is actually a 31-30,,i have to shoot a .312 boolit to fill the bore,then they wont chamber so i have to use neck-turned brass,,but it does shoot well,and has very nice tiger-striped walnut stock,,so its a keeper....

That's why it's important to slug the bore and know what your dealing with. My Win 94 30-30 has a .310" bore, just because your shooting a 30 caliber doesn't mean it's .308", many bores vary and some significantly.

Rick

[6pt-sika]

My days of buying any leveractions except for resale are over .

Now for the OP I don't mean to rain on the party . But take into consideration where you were at when the REP told you all his stuff . I mean the guy is trying to get perspective buyers etc etc . So while I hope what he says is true I would not put a whole lot of stock in it until I saw it .

[colt1960]

Ive also got a remlin 1895gbl 45-70. bought it new in feb 2012. I wanted a stainless sbl but did not run across a nice one jm or remlin. I have seen nice jm rifles and I have seen nice remlins. Mine looks good and shoots even better. I guess as long as the buyer is happy thats all that matters. Rick!

[yovinny]

My remlin 45-70 is the most accurate, problem free lever gun I've ever owned.
It shoots like a bolt gun with loads it likes and even shot factory J ammo into cloverleafs.
The safety dosent bother me a bit and the fit and finish are spot on, except for a few sharp internal machined edges that needed breaking.
I've had 4 (iirc) older marlins and none ever proved accurate enough to hold my interest very long.
I'd rather take a chance on a new 'could be lemon',, than an older 'know lemon',, any day.
My $.02
Cheers, YV

[ReloaderFred]

Remington hasn't produced any 1894 rifles for almost a year. They found that just using the old equipment they got when they bought Marlin wasn't working out for them. Their machinists were used to CNC, and the old equipment was just that, old. Nothing was computerized, and most of the memory was in the heads of the workers who had been at Marlin for years and years and chose to retire, rather than move to New York and work for another couple of years before retirement. Even the drawings for the rifles were still on paper.

They've scrapped the old equipment, and have been busy installing new state of the art equipment, which makes good business sense. They promise a good product, so I for one am willing to let them show me if they can indeed produce that good product. My previous Remington rifles have all been tack drivers, so they are capable of producing rifles that will shoot.

Instead of badmouthing a product before it comes out, I'll reserve my judgment until after I've seen the finished product and have one in my hands. But then, that's just my way of doing things...

Hope this helps.

Fred

[9w1911]

We've been hearing the Remington has retooled their tooling for a few years, when will we see these new models? I cant tell a difference between Marlins on the shelf now and when they were first made by Remington. What they should have done was make it worth the while for these machinists to train the younger core at Remington how to use the old tooling, or pay them more to stay on and make the transition easier. Or how about get all the new tooling in place, still produce and (key word)sell, keep selling the legit Marlins until you can make a seamless transition, but whatever. I will buy Marlin again no matter that they left a real bad taste in my mouth with the lemon my 1894c was.

[starmac]

The old tooling and related expenses, just might be one of the reasons Marlin sold out to start with. I tend to think it is very possible, that with modern tooling they should be able to build a better rifle than ever before at less expense to the company. We will just have to wait and see if they do or not.

[ReloaderFred]

I misunderstood the meaning of a previous post.

Fred

[dragon813gt]

I tend to think it is very possible, that with modern tooling they should be able to build a better rifle than ever before at less expense to the company. We will just have to wait and see if they do or not.
This is my feeling. I see no reason why the final product wouldn't be better than ever. As for brining the old workers over or having them teach the people at Remington's plant that sounds good but financially it would have been a burden for the company. In hind sight it looks like it would have been a smart move because they would possibly be producing rifles. Because after all you don't make money w/ no product. Plenty of companies have turned out poor products over the years and are still in business. They either get it right or they go out of business.

[bearcove]

A nice 480 ruger or 454 casull would be nice, 41 would be cool!

[bearcove]

As far as if they can make a good marlin, I could, just need the tools and men.

[9w1911]

Hey Fred may I educate you on some of my posts perhaps you missed this:
"I will buy Marlin again no matter that they left a real bad taste in my mouth with the lemon my 1894c was."-me

uh I still own the 1894c and will most likely buy a 45-70 so,, your point is? and how not to base a product on your own buying experience? seems pretty reasonable to me

[ReloaderFred]

You're right, 9w1911. I misread the last sentence of your post. Please accept my apologies and I'll delete the previous post.

Fred

[HawkCreek]

I wouldnt care if it was remlin or not if they'd bring out the 1895RL they advertised for a few years back.

[starmac]

What is the 1895 rl???

[Scharfschuetze]

Here's a link to the 1895RL:

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/marlin/marlin1895RL.asp

[btroj]

Never knew they made that one. It would be a good one. I would prefer a longer barrel though.

[9w1911]

No problem Fred I didnt want this to be a pity party because of my first experience with Marlin and I do not want to seem like I am here to bash Marlin, I actually really like Marlin and I want to see them succeed , I will of course buy as many marlins as I can afford over my lifetime :)
I also did not mean to be rude in my response Fred so sorry if I came off that way.

I am just in manufacturing and there were things I feel Remington could have done to mitigate their issues when the first Remlins came out,

[ReloaderFred]

I've talked to the reps at Remington every year at the SHOT Show. What I've gotten is a feeling of frustration. Marlin was an old company, using old equipment, and most of the employees had been there most of their working lives. Many were near retirement age, and didn't want to move to New York with the company, so they either found other jobs or retired.

I've been told several times by the Remington people involved with the Marlin project that most of the knowledge was in the heads of the old employees. I was once told that minor changes to the manufacturing process weren't even written down, as they "just did it that way", which is probably why there was some variation in the older Marlins. I know I've seen it in my dozen plus Marlin rifles.

Remington made a mistake when they just moved the old equipment to the new plant and tried to make rifles on it. Without the historic memory of the old operators they lost the "technique" of old time machinists. Today's machinists are used to working with CNC, etc., and most of us know that working on a machine without a computer attached requires more skill, and more importantly, a feel for the machine.

By removing the old machinery and replacing it with new equipment, it's just like starting up a new company. I just hope their inspectors will do their jobs and not let any substandard product escape the plant. They need to be ready for prime time when they start shipping rifles again, and from the enthusiasm displayed at the SHOT Show this year, I think they believe they're almost there. At least I hope so, since I really like the platform, and I don't want to see it die.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[6pt-sika]

Never knew they made that one. It would be a good one. I would prefer a longer barrel though.
They never did ! They had it in the brochure one year and never brought it into production . Winchester showed the 94 in there catalog for two years available in the 480 Ruger also but they never went to production either .

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

They should have just left things alone.

Winchester did not "make a comeback" until they began building OM 70's again. And, the ones I have seen at Cabela's were $1549 retail. I'm just buying old ones up and building nice custom rifles for that sort of $$$ out of the beaters. Stashing the nice ones in the gun vault.

I do not think the Remlins will do anything except boost the value of the old ones.

[detox]

In June 2007, a private equity firm, Cerberus Capital Management, acquired Remington Arms for $370 million, including $252 million in assumed debt. This happened because Remington was millions of dollars in debt and did not report a profit during the years 2003–2005.[9]

In December 2007, Remington Arms acquired rifle-maker Marlin Firearms

[shdwlkr]

As to what Remington can do with Marlin firearms that is still a big unknown. It depends on the workers, management, QC, price and lastly if customers will put their hard earned dollars down to have one or keep looking for the older ones.

Case in point winchester did how many variations on the mdl 94 and it still died. Cost, old equipment, management that was too stubborn to change and employees that just did their jobs. In the old days winchester had craftsmen that cared what went out the door. Towards the end I feel they just felt betrayed and knew their jobs were going to disappear so why try.

Since I have not had a new Remlin in my hand I can't tell you how they feel, work or even look, but I will as soon as there is one to check out.

Remington bean counters failed to check out how Marlins were really made and just how. The moving of the equipment was really in my mind a waste of money. It was old and out dated, first clue you need to think real hard about moving it. The good thing is they are putting up new equipment to make Remlins, the real question is can they succeed in the challenge?
When anything first starts there are bumps in the road and I sure hope Remington doesn't push less thans out the door to help with cash flow as that will turn people off from the product real fast.

As to having left things alone at Marlin when Remington bought the company. Not a good idea as many of the craftsmen were getting close to retirement, what do you do when they are gone if you just left things alone? A much better approach would have been to replace each piece of equipment one at a time and let the craftsman help the new guy learn how to come up with the same quality or better piece with the new equipment. Then as the old guys left you could retire their equipment with them. Sorry I like the dollars to stay in my pocket not flushed down the toilet.

In today's business world a profit margin of 20% or more is looked for, when I was in the real world 3-5% was looked at a good margin. Since the new margin is being used more and more retail places are going down the tubes. The new economy of Barry O is putting more folks in the unemployed/welfare line then anything this country has ever seen. It will get worse and the real issue is can we really elect individuals that care about America ,smaller government, less government waste, education, health insurance, securing our borders, creating an economy that puts people to work, re-establishing our position in the world as a world power instead of a world wimp that bows to every enemy this country has ever had and shelling out money to buy allies that just laugh when they think of America.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The story related above is the same one told last year about new machinery being added to make Marlin rifles. The fact is that all of the piece parts for all the guns under the Remington banner are being made on the SAME machinery in Illion NY. They may have added some more machines but nothing will be exclusive to Marlin Mfg.

There was some startup time for the Rem engineers to write programs to produce the main parts. The only part on a Marlin Rifle that is even challenging is the receiver. The receivers were made from a forging, as were the old style levers. The receivers are still made from forgings however now they are machined on CNC machining centers. The levers are made completely on cnc machining centers now as there is no reason to do it any other way. The time of specialized machines for single operations on parts for guns is long gone. Remington makes all it's own barrels. Smaller parts are investment castings, which are probably being made by Ruger.

Where Remington will make improvements is in the wood since they bought a walnut factory and the fit and finish of the product will evolve as time moves on.

It is dumb to think that a mark like Marlin will die anytime soon. The name alone is worth too much $. Even if Remington did decide to can the product someone else would step up and start producing, and I doubt they would purchase anything more than the name and the drawings. If I was doing it I would do it that way simply because the way that they have been made is obsolete and there are simply better ways to make the guns.

When taking over a line of products, and in this case it has no doubt become painfully obvious to Remington,,, that the devil is not in the details, it is in the variations of the products. If we are talking Leverguns only,(don't forget there is a complete line of Rimfires they are also producing) and then there are three distinctly different actions 336/1895, 1894 and 39A. Then there is Stainless versus Cromoly. Then there is all the different calibers to contend with, and then different models of each action.

The way these different models are dealt with is by doing runs of a certain configuration of gun. IE: 1894 in .41 mag. We'll make 500 of them which should last the distributors for a couple of years. Next month we'll make 1894 CB's in .357 .44, 45, we'll make a thousand of each caliber., then we'll make some Guide Guns, etcetra! until you've made everybody happy,,,, Which will never happen, and then people will bitch that we aren't making a good product or they can't get it.

If I was producing Marlin Leverguns, I would run 1894's the first year and they would be made to one level of quality in .357, 44 and .45 calibers with 20" and 24"octagon barrels, and the guns would come off the line running like MY current 1894 CB runs smooth as glass feeding everything, with decent wood. The starting price would be in the $1200-1400 range! And I would sell every single one I made because the value would be there. I would produce about 500 guns per month until the main distributors were saturated. The next time the guns were produced they would be made the exact same way with the exception of any improvements added during the mfg process ot improve the product not necessarily cut costs.

Then I would move on to 1895's and so on.

The reason I know that I would sell every single one I made at $12-1400 is because people are willing to pay more for a higher quality product, but all they will do with a poorer quality product is bitch about it, and talk about how good the old ones were.

News flash,,, if the old ones were really that good then why aren't they still being made?

The solution is to do what FN is doing with Winchester. Evolve the product by only producing a high end version. Either FN or the Japanese are making all their guns and they are being made to a certain standard of fit and finish. And they are priced accordingly. IF I was Marlin I would be making my guns to Winchesters standard since they are my main competition and always have been.

An example of this being done is Ithaca. Their shotguns are really nice and they are not cheap. They are concentrating only on the good stuff. In fact I'm sending my M37 back to them for refit and finish next week.

If people wanted a cheap generic levergun they could buy a Mossberg.

The name is what suffers when you cheapen the product to a price point , and it is a proven fact that you will make more money selling fewer high quality goods, than selling a larger number of cheap goods.

You need look no further than Mercedes, BMW, Audi. These companies are solvent, they produce a limited amount of high quality product every year. GM and Chrysler are always floundering. GM's solution to this problem is to produce more stuff in China and they have in fact opened 10 new plants in China to do just that.

I almost puked when I saw a Chinese built Cadillac ATS! So will lots of American customers!

Manufacturing everything is changing. It is a shame to see our jobs going elsewhere because we can't compete due to government over regulation, but it is happening more and more everyday.

Our fearless leader is going to tell us tonite how he is going to make our lives even more miserable with his pen and phone.

I can't wait!

Marlin will be fine.

Randy

[dragon813gt]

Effectively doubling the price of a new 1894 is not a good way to sell rifles and make money. If that's the cost to manufacture them then they will become niche rifles that only the collectors want. An 1894 is an everyman rifle and it's price needs to reflect that. As much as I love me 1894C. I would not pay $1k for one let alone over $1k. Just like I won't pay what Winchester is currently asking.

And as far as your comparison to Mercedes, BMW and Audi. It's really irrelevant. The US market gets very few of the models they produce. We don't get the small and value priced models because they are considered luxury brands here. While they aren't the bottom of the barrel in Europe they are like Chevy and Ford are here.

[Rifle 57]

I wished they would think about making the 1886 in 45-90 - 50-110- 40-82- 38-55 and some other cal's

[robertbank]

dragon813gt - "Everyone wants to go to heaven BUT nobody wants to die. You are thinking in terms of 1980 dollars in 2014. You want to buy a gun for the same price they sold for 40 odd years ago. It isn't likely going to happen. With modern machinery and little extra effort higher end guns can be made for the virtually the same cost as lower quality guns but produce larger profit margins. Would you pay $900 for a run of the mill lever or $1,200 for a top end gun.

More new cars will be sold in China this year than in the US. They have after all 2 Billion odd citizens to build cars for with a very large and growing middle class. If you want take advantage of this you build plants there to service that market. Simple economics. Compete or die.

Take Care

Bob

[GabbyM]

Lever guns can't compete for the bottom end of the rifle market with all the bic lighter turn bolt guns on the market.
To many parts and little pieces to a lever gun and then there's all that assembly.

Mt opinion on it is like this. With a couple million Marlin 336's and Winchester 94's floating around. There's the economy end of a market. If you are going to build a new rifle. It needs to be better than a used one. Miroku Win 94's aren't over priced IMHO. Which is why a couple years ago when I found a like new in box Win 94 AE for $500 or ?550 I bought it. Is a great shooter too. That blond stock leaves some to be desired. When the 94's first came out they cost a working man one months wages.

The old defunct Winchester Co. already tried making junk rifles. They ruined there brand then went belly up. Shucks if it weren't for the Lawyered up improvements to the 94 and the fact it's an import I might be tempted to buy one. Right now the South Carolina made Win M70's are IMHO a great bargain. But some think they are high since a Savage Axis is half the price. I can't help people who think like that. They'll just need to be happy with there Axis. Most are.

[GabbyM]

One thing Remington has going for it with the Marlin 336. It's been over half century since Marlin made a high end lever gun.
My faith in Remington to produce anything but a forgery is low. But you never know.

[shdwlkr]

Something that has not really been mentioned is the value of the dollar isn't what it used to be. So if you want a firearm you are going to pay what is asked or find something else.

I have had some Miroku's and some original winchester 94's and 92's like both and for different reasons. The originals because that was when winchester had craftsmen that cared and winchester cared. The Miroku's because of the quality of the firearm. Yes they have the lawyer issues but so what. I have paid more for an original than I have for a Miroku.

Something think about I bought a pickup in 1970 for $4000 dollars and thought that was expensive. Bought a truck in 2006 for $54,000 and thought that was expensive and if I were to buy one in 2014 it would cost me $69,000. Inflation has made it hard to buy anything that has any real quality in it. Bought any large quantity of ammo lately? Not 22lr but some that has more or less not been affected by the hoarding craze? Yes I buy by the case didn't use to but that is the only way to buy if you can afford it. Ex I bought a case of 357 mag before the craze hit it cost me like $500 if I were to buy it today it would cost me close to $900 if I could find it and someone to sell me that much. 9mm is about where it was before the craze up maybe 20%, same with some other ammo.

Nothing is going to be cheap anymore if you want it save up for it or have a large stash of cash. Primers are going up due to many reasons cost of materials, everyone wanting to make a fortune on the sale of them and manufacturers using as much as they can to make cartridges. Watch how reloading stuff disappears. Some powders are hard to find right now as manufacturers are taking all the brass, primers, powder, bullets to make finish product as the demand is so high.


Some one mentioned that we must be rich to have so much brass on hand. Well for me it has taken almost 50 years to get where I am and you know I am not sure I have enough.

I just scored some new 357 brass for $0.05 each and yes I bought a good number. Now to find some 44spl, 44mag, 10mm, 25-35, 30-30, at a good price. In case you are wondering that 357 brass I have been looking for over 3 years. Yes I am cheap and will spend my bucks when I get what I want at a price I think is fair.

I totally expect when 22 lr appears in quantity again I will be paying around $35-37 a brick for some of it that I like and some of it will be in the $25-27 range a brick. Will I buy it by the case yep, I have an order in with a LGS that I do business with that I will take 3 cases when he has it at a good price. I could have gotten a case a little while ago from him but he was low and asked if I could wait. I told sure I am in no rush and besides when he sells a 22 it would be nice to have some 22 ammo to sell with it. He told me if I run out he will sell me some just to keep me shooting. We have worked together on deals for almost 4 years now. I have even let go a few firearms that I had on layaway and was paying on because he had a customer that just had to have that item. Yes he has been very good to me when that has happened and I look at this way if he can sell it for a good price today instead of waiting for me to pay it off that is good business and besides so far what he offers me to replace it is far better than what I started out with and the price has been a fair price.

You have to learn that nothing is going to be cheap like it was in the past, that ship has sailed the dollar is not worth very much anymore like pennies on the world market and everything we buy is going to be higher with us having less dollars to spend to buy.

I bought a car last year and the same model and everything this year is over $2200 dollars more and the new one has less warranty, and you get a backup camera wow that really is worth the extra cost isn't it.

later guys

[robertbank]

shdwlkr you just nailed it. Now you know the end product of federal governments running huge deficits....inflation.

Take Care

Bob

[6pt-sika]

I probably have no idea whats going on with the "new" Marlin's and to be honest I'm not that intrested anylonger or new Remington's for that matter .

I do however have a semblance of an idea as to what Marlin and Remington produced in years past .

I only try to buy Remington 700's , 721's , 722's and 7's that were pre 1990 . As to Marlin's I try to buy pre 1973 , but in all honestly after owning around 100 Marlin leveractions in the last 14 years I'm not overly worried about buying anymore unless I can flip them and make a few bucks . I think I still have 12-14 Marlin's and they dwindle a little from time to time . But as to anything new arriving I can't see it atleast for myself .

I've owned Marlin's that were made in the 1890's all the way up to about 2006 and they all did well enough for what they were made for . However the quality of the pre 1920 guns always seemed the best to me . At present my 12-14 rifles were made from 1964 to 1972 and they all do nicely . I might add they are all 444's and I shoot them all just some more then others . Wait stop the press I forgot I have one Marlin 444 that was made in 2001 , have that one specifically for cast bullets of 390 grains or greater . But thats another story unto itself .

Bottomline if a person wants a new Marlin and they're satisfied with it by all means get one !

[jh45gun]

shdwlkr if your willing to pay 35 bucks a brick for 22 LR and others follow suit the price will never come down again.

[6pt-sika]

shdwlkr if your willing to pay 35 bucks a brick for 22 LR and others follow suit the price will never come down again.

Look around a bit !

Paying $35 a brick IS down .

A good portion of what I see around here are $40-50 a brick .

[shdwlkr]

jh45gun
I have seen some other 22lr that I use that are going for $25 a brick, the $35 a brick is special cci ammo and has been on the net for as high as $50 a box so $35 a brick isn't bad.
If you think you are going to see $0.015 for a round of 22lr don't hold your breath for that as even that cheap stuff has gone up 15-20% already and as the lead shortage hits it will be very interesting to see where the price goes.

Right now in my area the average price for a brick of 22 lr wolf is going for $75 a brick so you think my price is high go look around the old days are gone. Heck the $35 dollar a brick was the going price before Newtown ever happened for what I paid I thought I did ok.

When the dust settles if it does the average price on 22 lr is going to be at least 15-20% higher than you paid before because the price of primer powder, lead, brass and powder in the bullet has gone up. Have you looked at the price of primers lately? bullets? powder? brass? everything is going up even when you can find it. I have paid as much as $250 recently for some powder I needed and thought it was a good price since no one else had any. I have also bought some powder for $175 recently and thought it was a good price. these are the big jugs.

The price of stuff is just going to what the traffic will pay. I like CCI Mini Mags and will not pay what they are asking for them which is around $80-100 a brick or higher.
Go to gunbroker, auction arms, guns america and see what they are asking for stuff it is off the wall and folks are paying it!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

My whole point is that I feel Marlin would be better off offering higher end guns like Winchester does, and leaving the bottom end market all together. I think it would advance the brand much more than cobbling together guns for a low price point that don't get the hand work put into them and generally get bitched about.

Dragon: I think my analogy about the German cars was spot on. My point was all of those marks sell everyone of the cars they import. The fact that they have lower priced models for Europe and elsewhere doesn't put them in the Ford Chevy class at all. Those cars might have smaller engines or lower levels of trim but they are still engineered to the same standards as the flagship models.. I drive a 1983 MBZ 300SD which was the bottom of the line car imported to the states and the same ones that weren't sold here were sold as Taxi cabs in Europe. Our's had DOT glass as the only difference. My car has 289K on it and a lot more to go, I have put 140K on it myself over the last 12 years. Whereas they must be maintained or they turn in to expensive ***'s they also deliver a higher degree of value thru service than a similar American car would have. That car was $45K in 1983! I paid $4500 for it in 2002 and it still looks nearly new. How many 30 year old cars do you see that look as good or deliver the service that one of these cars does. I may sell it soon and I can get $6500-7000 for it easily here in CA because they are highly desirable cars since they will run on just about anything that smells like diesel. This has been the best car I have ever owned bar none. This was definitely a place where second hand (actually third hand) was better that second rate.

Point being there is more value there. The same thing holds true for guns. Guns that are made to higher levels are worth more both originally and during resale. Also not flooding the market with these guns keeps the values up. IE not producing zillions of them.

A higher level of craftsmanship is what gun people want, not a cheap product. There are plenty of cheap guns out there, just look a the current crop of $350 bolt guns. How do you think Chinese Marlins would be received? Anybody that would buy a gun like that should be beaten.

There are just some things that should not be!

But the same thing was said when Browning started making guns in Japan. There is no comparison between Japanese workers and Chinese workers now,,, But there will be sooner than you think.

And the reason is the demand for better quality over low price.

However that is the only way they can produce that product for a low price point and still make a profit. I guess they will have to get past Import restrictions, but they'll figure that out.

I still won't be buying any because for me a good used one is worth more to me, than a cheap new one.

It is all about how much value you get out of the things you buy. some call that "Bang for your Buck!"

[izzyjoe]

I hope for the sake of the Marlin brand they keep the price competitive, cause that's how they got to here they are now. They sold millions of decent made 336's to hard working folks like us,history has a way of repeating itself! Don't look for those cheap bolt rifles to go away, cause some folks don't give a rip, they just want a rifle to go bang. I bought a 710 Rem from a fellow at work for cheap, these have to be the cheapest made rifle on the planet, but as far as a shooter it's great!

[LeftyDon]

If they bring back the 1894 Cowboy in .357 I would be willing to give it a chance. That octagonal barrel with Ballard rifling would be perfect for stout hunting loads. I spent some quality time with my own 1894C today and was reminded why they are such great guns.

I'd be interested in one also.

[Hickory]

Never knew they made that one. It would be a good one. I would prefer a longer barrel though.

Marlin did make a few (if memory serves me correctly, about a dozen 480's were made and destroyed, because the 1894 platform was too light) they were made for their top executives who usually get the first ones.

At least that's the story I got from two different sources.

[GabbyM]

Since I'm a machinist I do know a tad. Fact is a turn bolt action rifle lends itself to the advantages of modern machine technology more than a lever gun. Rifles like the AR-15 even more so than a lever gun. Cheap and lever action are not words that belong in the same sentence. Marlin Lever guns were never cheap. Been some real Junkers built just as Winchester built some real dogs of 94's back in the early 1970's trying to sell them for $95. Buddy of mine bought a Marlin 336 in 30-30 back in the mid seventies. We couldn't keep rounds on a pie plate at 25 yards. That's the last thing we need is more junk like that. In order to build a good Marlin 336 it will coast more than a Savage M14 or even a FN Win M70. But then I look for the Winchester M70 to take a jump up to over a thousand dollars from the over counter $770 they are now. Marlin is selling the 336 now for just under $500 and people complain about quality. They need to pay $650 so Marlin can finish the rifle. Then $950 for a good one. XLR is $750 now.

[quilbilly]

Having been in the outdoor sporting goods industry for the last 35 years, one of the things I have learned is that if you don't maintain a low end pricing line of product, you will be out of business in 30 years. I see this happening every day in my industry. You have to get new blood into the sport for the long haul. If there are no low end lever actions available - only high end priced levers - you lose a generation of shooters who might find have found them interesting to try out. It will be much like what has happened to the marine sport fishing industry in my neck of the woods. Due to regulations putting accessible areas for smaller cheaper boats off limits, it is so expensive to fish, the only people left fishing are old farts like me.

[GabbyM]

Could be the lever action rifle becomes a rare thing.

Probably what will happen. Like I said they are not chap to produce.

They most probably will be like our flint locks.

[izzyjoe]

Could be the lever action rifle becomes a rare thing.

Probably what will happen. Like I said they are not chap to produce.

They most probably will be like our flint locks.
It's sad, but you are probably right. I don't see too many older guns showing up at the range like there was before, mostly young 'uns with cheap plastic guns, but they want to shoot just like everyone else. I can see the traditional guns going by the way side at gunshow's too. I was at walmart the other day, and the Rem BDL 700's are $777, how many of those do you think they will sell to the average joe, vs. the 770. Its simple math!
And by the way it think the older 700BDL's were some of the finest rifle to be offered by Remington, the 40x's are a work of art too!

[starmac]

While they are more expensive to build and sell I don't see them completely going away. I tend to think their will always be low cost levers and bolts, most folks that buy a cheap one to start with, will at some point want to move up. 770 rem to 700 is but one example.

We talk about the cost, but in reality, how many days pay did it take the average working Joe to buy a win, marlin, savage etc in 1920??

[btroj]

I would pay more for a better built rifle but not we then kind of money Winchester gets these days. Lots of room between 500 and 1200 dollars.

[robertbank]

I would pay more for a better built rifle but not we then kind of money Winchester gets these days. Lots of room between 500 and 1200 dollars.

As I see it there is a difference between collectors value eg Winchester and shooters/quality value. The new Japanese guns are well made and in my view worth the money in today's dollars probably better buys than anything Winchester ever produced ...ever due to CNC exactness.. The collector pays for the history of the gun, age and numbers still available from that time period. I gues it boils down to whatever floats your boat and how thick your wallet is.

Take Care

Bob

[jmort]

A tuned Italian 1873 will cost you $1,300.00 plus and is worth it. The new Winchesters are worth it. I'm waiting for a $500.00 Rossi 92 but would rather have the Winchester 92. I'll have the Rossi tuned and it will work well for me because I don't have the extra $$$ for what I would want. Robertbank is exactly right.

[btroj]

My wallet can afford it, it just prefers not to pay that much.

I'm very happy with the 5 Marlins I have. No winchesters.

[FergusonTO35]

I don't have a problem paying good money for a quality product but I don't personally want to spend extra on fancy wood, mirror-like bluing, case hardening, etc. Nothing wrong with that stuff but I have no need for it on a rifle that's going to see alot of real world hunting and high volume range use. Matte metal and laminate wood is just fine with me.

What is not ok at any price is yawning wood to metal gaps, loose actions, canted sights, lopsided buttplates, and other things that gunmakers think practical shooters and hunters should have to tolerate because they don't want to buy a premium grade rifle. If correcting these defects raises the price that's fine, but I'm never again going to buy a rifle that just screams "we dont care about our workmanship and think no one notices".

[starmac]

My preferance is, savage, then winchester, then marlin, but I own three marlins to one as far as ratio goes. Part of that ratio is due to wallet, but a big part is availability, and then of course, there is only one guide gun. lol

[jmort]

If you want the best you have to pay for it. I'll settle for the stronger 92 action.

[robertbank]

Oddly enough eye sight plays a part. In my case I went with a Marlin 30-30 cuz I can scope it easily and have. I had a Win 94 which was, well to be kind a blind man's build.

I do have two 92 Rossis (357Mag, .44Mag) All three, includes the Marlin do what they do very well. The Remlion Marlin has been excellent and has VG Wood to Metal fit.

I would like to get a Marlin 357mag and put a scope on it but then again a Rossi in 45Colt Mares Leg with a regular butt-stock is in my future as well.

Take Care

Bob

[Uncle R.]

This has been an interesting thread for sure. It saddens me to see the great names in gunmaking lowering their quality standards or fighting for their existence. I watched Winchester struggle from the 60s to the end of the company. In the late 70s my brother bought a brand new model 70 that had a stripped scope mounting hole in the receiver. The plug screw was held in place with a putty-like substance that looked like (and probably was) "Plastic Wood." That was a pretty good indicator that someone in the factory just didn't care if they were selling junk.
<
Savage had their problems in those days too - I knew a person who was involved in huge quantities of sporting gun sales in the 80s. I was told horror stories about Savage rifles that would just make your hair curl. Things like 30 caliber barrels stamped .270 and guns that had such glaring defects that they were obviously shipped without even the most cursory inspection.
<
In those days Remington ruled the roost as working man's sporting guns. Even with the pressed in checkering of the mid 60s they were nice looking and great performing guns. The 700s were accurate and reliable rifles. I still own several from the 60s and 70s and they are impressive rifles, especially given their costs. I grew up poring over Remington catalogs of that era and dreaming of owning my own Remington rifles and shotguns. As I matured and had jobs and money that would allow it I turned many of my catalog dreams into realities. I was seldom disappointed by anything that said Remington on it in those days.
<
Now Winchester is long gone. Savage thankfully seems to have recovered their quality or at least their reputation for accuracy and found their niche in today's market as a supplier of accurate low-cost rifles. Sadly the 99 is gone. Marlin has been struggling for years and even before the buyout there were lots of quality complaints. Now I read about Remington's quality going down the tubes, and Marlin - er, REMlin rifles being sold with defects that should never have made it past even a blind inspector. It all just brings me sadness. I sure hope Remington as well as Marlin get their act together and survive - as makers of premium quality firearms. I'd hate to see something like the 770s as Remington's flagship model, and I'd hate to think that the best lever action options for American shooters would be foreign made guns.
<
Uncle R.

[FergusonTO35]

I think lever action makers need to recognize that the cheap new hunting rifle market is now dominated by cheap turnbolts and if they keep trying to chase it they are going to go down the toilet as Winchester did. There are many lever action enthusiasts out there including myself who don't mind paying a fair price for a good rifle but are tired of being insulted with miserable products. If the makers can offer us good quality lever actions at the price of a comparable traditional bolt action (i.e., Remington 700 BDL) then I think they will be assured of a loyal customer base for decades to come.

[GabbyM]

Yes Ferguson. When you have shooters looking for fifty year old Marlins in preference of a new one. You just may be building the wrong quality of rifle. Marlin has tried to build a nice rifle. They just really are clueless tea drinkers in Gucci suits or something.

They lost me when they came out with "Ballard" rifling that was nothing but Micro Gove missing half the groves. After they sent some true standard grove barrels out to the gun magazine guys to review. This day and age they have to do better than that.

[dragon813gt]

They just need to keep the cost under $1k. The closer it is to $700 the better. If $700 leads to an inferior product then raise the cost to get it right. I don't think this is asking to much.

Why $700. Because this isn't much more than the cheapest AR and well below what most consider a good entry level AR. There is hope for the younger generation and I am one of them. Everyone has an AR at the range and most guys don't notice them. When I shoot my Marlin I always get a ton of questions. And it usually only takes one tube full of ammo to put a smile on their face and the seed has been planted.

And for those that hunt in thick woods there is no better option than a lever. The weight and length of bolt actions isn't as comfortable to hunt w/. There will always be a market for lever action hunting rifles. But this market isn't going to want to spend to $1k+ for a rifle that's going to get beat up.

I want to see Marlin succeed and if they have to raise the price so be it. A Marlin has a lot of advantages over the other makes. You only need to field strip one, and then break down a Winchester and Savage 99 to see this. If I was going to buy a premium lever I would want it to be a new production Savage 99 in a slew of different cartridges. But I'm biased on this one since I love the 99s.

[FergusonTO35]

New Remlin 336W's are $400.00 at my local shop. I bet they could easily iron out all the defects that you hear and see so much of and still keep the real world price under $500.00. Why not? As I said before they no longer compete in the cheap rifle market even with miserable QC. How about charge what you need to and make a quality rifle?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was just looking at a Remlin at my local Hardware store. The metal looked good and it had a laminated stock which I like way better than their cheesy wood stocks on the bottom of the line guns.

The main problem I saw with the gun is that there were many places where simply letting the parts run in the tumbler a little longer would have made a significant difference. Main place observed was the lever which had been profiled on the mill with nice radius' on the inner and outer surfaces and then Blanchard or double disk ground on the sides but had relatively sharp edges which simply weren't tumbled off the part. This is so simple to fix it is ridiculous.

I know what I'm talking about here as I tumble deburr parts all the time and leaving a lever in a vibratory tumbler for 2-3 hours would not cost that company any more than leaving them in the machine for 10-15 minutes which is about what they look like they are doing, and then letting the machine sit idle for the remaining 2-3 hours.

Their internal parts suffer from the same lack of time in the machine. The parts that would benefit from this expanded treatment are the lever, the bolt, the hammer, the lifter, the bolt locking lug, all trigger parts, and most importantly the receiver could use a good deburr on the inside in a tumbler as well, which could be done directly after machining and before the outer surfaces are ground for finishing.

Seriously guys I could have that entire process worked out in less than 2 days. One day to set it up, and one day to verify how much time each part actually needs in the machine.

Just doing these operations longer than what they do now would dramatically better the feel of these guns and wouldn't cost them anything to execute since it requires no hand work, but would take the place of a lot of hand work that they are just plain eliminating to cut costs.

As far as hurting the parts this is plain nonsense. I run stainless and titanium parts continuously for 3 days and the edges are only radiused about .005-.010 after all that. I could make it go faster by running it wet but it takes too long to clean the parts afterwards so I just let it run dry. The parts literally shine like a diamond in a goat's ****.

There are no dimensions in these guns that are that critical and tumbling would not alter the condition or fit of the parts at all.

As to the assembly of the guns. They have to work out a method of timing the barrels so they come out in the right place for the sights to be aligned correctly. I don't think this is that hard if the barrel and receiver were marked with timing marks prior to assembly and pre-torqued by machine and then hand torqued to final value.

The main areas of drag on these guns is the ejector groove/ejector and the relationship of the hammer to it's cocking cam on the bolt. The bolt/hammer are going to be pretty much left as they are simply because you can't mess with them too much and still have a Lawyer safe gun. However this can be adjusted easily by a talented end user. I can do a complete deburr/ slick job on either an 1894 or 336/1895 in <2 hours no matter how bad they are. I am not some big hi mucky muck gunsmith either, but I can follow instructions.

However most people who would buy one of these Low End Marlin Leverguns as a hunter or truck gun are not going to want to take the time to rework the action, but simply allowing parts to tumble longer would take care of 90% of the cosmetic operational problems these guns have, and cut down on both the break in time and resulting ******** that goes on with respect to the condition that these guns meet the market.

The fixes are really pretty easy. I wonder why they haven't do them yet?

My idea of the higher grade gun is still how I see the product best serving the market place. The only thing that would cost more to produce is the better wood on the guns. The rest would be accomplished by the processes out lined above. IE; the cost of the gun would end up being maybe 10-15% higher than what they are doing now.

People would respond.

Randy

[cbrick]

Randy, if you go back to the hardware store for that rifle re-read post #21 in this thread and take a bore scope to the store with you.

Rick

[FergusonTO35]

Randy, very well spoken!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Rick: I don't have a bore scope but just looking thru the bore it didn't look too bad. It was dirty IE: hadn't been cleaned before put on the rack for sale.

Remington is one of the only companies that makes all it's own barrels. I don't know what method theya re suing to make Remlin barrels but I'm pretty sure what you saw was not an indicator of the total production. If it was then all of the Remington gun would have bad barrels, and we know that is not the case.

I have a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag, a 1895 in 45.70 and a older 336 in .30-30 and all have nice barrels. However the newest gun I have is 2005 mfg.

I guess time will tell if they are going to survive.

Randy

[FergusonTO35]

If anybody is looking for an 1895 Cowboy in .45-70 my local shop has a very nice one for $750.00. Mike's Guns and Archery in Frankfort, KY: 502-223-8120. I don't stand to benefit from the sale, just thought I'd put it out there.

[GabbyM]

Randy there have been a few guys here look down dozens of Marlins lately. Not heard anything good about what they saw.

But I guess all some people want is a rifle to abuse for a few years riding in the pickup bed then throw it away and buy a new one.