A sad day,,,,

[Pb2au]

After 20 years of faithful service, the mighty Lee singe stage press,,,,,broke. The linkage bit that secures the handle snapped during a lively bout of re-sizing 30-06 to 8x57mm.
I believe that type of work might be a bit too much for the old girl.
I will see about getting a replacement part for her, and then start shopping for a more sturdy single stage for the more "strenuous" work.
She will work again!!!!! I figure I must have reloaded about a zillion rounds on that press over 20 years..

[imashooter2]

LOL! I've heard Lee equipment described many ways, but never as "mighty." That press has given you fine service for the price, and Lee has the parts to put it back in service. Here's to another 20 years! :drinks:

[zuke]

I've been using a LEE 3 hole press for a good 20-25 year's, with the original white metal arm and linkage. Still going strong.

[LNK]

The replacement part is I believe $6.99 and is stamped steel. Seems 20 years is about the limit for the original white metal.

LNK

[Kevinakaq]

Reminds me of when an old clunker breaks down. I normally give it a pat and said thank you brother you've taken me far.

Lee continues to give good value for the dollar. I have a lot of lee dies (and redding, forster, etc) but in reality I can't find a fault with the performance of the lee dies. I'm a self imposed victim of good marketing I suppose when I pay more for the same outcome...

I have a used Lee Challenger on the way that I'm giving to my brother. If he get's twenty years of service out of it i'll say money well spent indeed.

Kevin

[Guesser]

When the Lee Challenger press was introduced it was named the "Challenger 2000". It was designed to last into the next century. Most have and still work. Mine was new in 1985, still running!!!

[Big Z]

My little Lee lasted a couple years before pushing on the handle for a stuck case peeled the aluminum linkage before the case head gave way. Figure I learned my lesson on where aluminum shouldn't be.

[w5pv]

Durn cheap stuff won't last.

[Pb2au]

I am having a bit of a challenge finding the replacement white metal linkage on Lee's website. I will not be swayed however, as I am sure it exists.
20 years of service is a pretty good track record I think, so I am definitely not complaining. The coup de grace was my current resizing adventure. I think my own inexperience was a bigger culprit than the build quality of Ol' Redhead.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

You might want to give Lee a call. I don't see the press you're mentioning on their website any more. I'm beginning to wonder if they didn't replace it with the Breechlock classic cast. Lee has moved to heavier duty stuff the last couple of years and sadly, the end may have come to their old aluminum line.

[Pb2au]

You might want to give Lee a call. I don't see the press you're mentioning on their website any more. I'm beginning to wonder if they didn't replace it with the Breechlock classic cast. Lee has moved to heavier duty stuff the last couple of years and sadly, the end may have come to their old aluminum line.

I believe you are correct. I am going to take a picture of the broken piece tonight and contact Lee. Hopefully they might have a replacement piece in a drawer somewhere. Or under a box of donuts, or in the workshop shimming up one of the machines.

[DRNurse1]

Or you could hold your breath until you turn blue and switch mfg's....just sayin'.---:kidding:

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Or you could hold your breath until you turn blue and switch mfg's....just sayin'.---:kidding:

To date, there hasn't been a manufacturer out there that makes a better o-frame type single stage press than the Lee Classic Cast single stage. It's significantly better than the RCBS Rock Chucker (that I used to have on my bench until the Lee pushed it off). To get a better single stage, you're going to have to fork out some serious dollars for a Forster/Bonanza. Sometimes it's a good thing to know what one is talking about before one goes off and starts "just sayin."

[r1kk1]

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad300/r1kk2/63FFD8FE-8D7A-4FDE-8580-31B49E3C23DB.jpg (http://s945.photobucket.com/user/r1kk2/media/63FFD8FE-8D7A-4FDE-8580-31B49E3C23DB.jpg.html)

Can you name the two bottom presses? Give you a hint on the bottom right - Lee described the press as being something like 40x stronger than needed for reloading in his book. Primer through the ram disposal, ram is solid 1.185" diameter with drilled through primer disposal. Weight 30 lbs. the bottom left was bought NIB through Craiglist for 100.00.

Yeah, I like single stage presses. Two of the four presses sport LNL bushings. Three of the four have quick change die feature.

Now to find some old vintage large presses. . .

Take care

r1kk1

[MT Chambers]

That's 4 very nice and solid presses, how are you liking the Co-ax?...Oh and sorry for butting in but lee presses don't hold up to my case forming and other experimenting.

[r1kk1]

That's 4 very nice and solid presses, how are you liking the Co-ax?...Oh and sorry for butting in but lee presses don't hold up to my case forming and other experimenting.

Loving it! I've been doing some different case forming operations necking down 500 and 460 S&W brass as well as stuff on the 50-110 Winchester. Waiting on the next run of swaging dies. That olde press on the bottom right has been around for decades and still tight and going strong. The Pretty green one works well too. I have all of them on Rock Dock plates now. Easy to switch out to do what I want.

Mine is a B-3 as my old B2 was stolen with other presses way back when.

Take care

r1kk1

[troyboy]

I got the linkage pieces if you want. Pm your addy.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

To date, there hasn't been a manufacturer out there that makes a better o-frame type single stage press than the Lee Classic Cast single stage.

Really? C'mon now...


To get a better single stage, you're going to have to fork out some serious dollars for a Forster/Bonanza. Sometimes it's a good thing to know what one is talking about before one goes off and starts "just sayin."

Please tell me that this is sarcasm...

[jmort]

I just ordered a Challenger Breech Lock to go with my Breech Lock Hand Presses. For $60.00, it seems like a good deal. Lee did upgrade the arm/linkage to all steel. I really like the whole Breech Lock system. I have a feeling the aluminum Challenger will be around for a while. In his first edition of Modern Reloading, Richard Lee stated that only one Challenger Press had ever been returned with a broken frame out of hundreds of thousands out there in use. Decent track record.

[bedbugbilly]

Ahhhh . . . isn't this where someone is supposed to say "if you'd paint it blue or green it wouldn't break". :-)

I'd say that 20 years is a pretty good testimony for the Lee press . . . to each their own but I love all of my Lee stuff . . . it works just fine for me! I have a feeling that press will go for another 20!

[Kevinakaq]

Red, blue, green...we are all a lucky bunch to have so many flavors to choose from. To each their own. 20 years of hard use out of any modern tool is a solid endorsement in my book. Beats 'made in China' that is for certain.

[Artful]

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad300/r1kk2/63FFD8FE-8D7A-4FDE-8580-31B49E3C23DB.jpg (http://s945.photobucket.com/user/r1kk2/media/63FFD8FE-8D7A-4FDE-8580-31B49E3C23DB.jpg.html)

Can you name the two bottom presses?

Now to find some old vintage large presses. . .

Take care

r1kk1

blurry picture - check - best guess - check
isn't the one on the left a Redding Ultramag and the one on the right CH Champion

[louism]

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/277/5/update-challenger-press-to-new-linkage

Follow this link for the list of parts. I think it was less than 20 bucks when I had to replace mine. All steel when you are done.

[dtknowles]

Red, blue, green...we are all a lucky bunch to have so many flavors to choose from. To each their own. 20 years of hard use out of any modern tool is a solid endorsement in my book. Beats 'made in China' that is for certain.

While I agree with "beats 'made in China' I guess I feel differently about tools. A reloading press should never break or wear out. I am not that great about taking good care of my tools but even with the rust and chips to the paint my 40 year old Lyman Spar T should still be loading ammo after I am dead. Some tools it is hard to ruin even when you abuse them.

Tim

[44Vaquero]

r1kk1, at least make the challenge a little harder. Redding Ultra-Mag and C&H Champion.

[44Vaquero]

Pb2au:

If you are looking for replacement toggles TP3007, the Challenger press was discontinued in 2006 and the Toggles (the part that goes from the Ram to the Lever) are no longer available. You are able to update the Toggle system with the newer style currently found on the Breech Lock Challenger Press. The parts needed to do this are as follows:

(1) OF3221 - Ram Pin - http://leeprecision.com/ram-pin-step.html

(1) OF3613 - Lever Clamp - http://leeprecision.com/Press-Lever-Clamp.html


(1) OF3609 - Washer - http://leeprecision.com/1-3-16-steel-washer.html

(1) FO2113 - Bolt - http://leeprecision.com/1-1-4-5-16-18-bolt.html

(2) OF2853 - Toggles - http://leeprecision.com/bl-challenger-toggle.html

[Pb2au]

44 vaquero,
Thank you sir! You are a gentleman and a scholar!

[r1kk1]

You guys nailed it. I don't think either Ultramag or Champion will break.

Take care

r1kk1

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Really? C'mon now...



Please tell me that this is sarcasm...

I'm comfortable with the statement. If you haven't seen and used the Lee Classic for a period of time, you wouldn't know, but that press is extremely well designed. No currently manufactured o-frame press is any better and most are dated in design related to the Lee.

The press has through ram primer disposal with a tube, so it stays clean. The frame design is such it is very stable with three bolts in the right locations for the leverage you're applying. The linkage is compound and very strong for it's size/weight. The handle has excellent leverage and can be set up for right or left handed operators. The press accepts the Lee Safety Prime, so priming can be automated on this press if desired. The press accepts Hornady LnL bushing adapters, so you can set your dies up in LnL bushings for extremely fast changes, a big advantage in a single stage.

The Lee is strong enough to resize 50 BMG brass and accepts 50 BMG sized dies. Lee even offers a kit for that purpose. Are there presses that would resize the big 50 brass easier? Yes, but you'll pay a heckuva lot more for them and they won't have used primer disposal, automatic primer dispensing and aren't adjustable for a left handed operator.

RCBS, Redding, Hornady and Lyman all carry a "comparable" press to the Lee, but all are at least $40.00 more (but less expensive than they used to be since the Lee Classic Cast came out) and none have as good a customer rating on midwayusa's website. Most are a lot heavier weight wise, but the designs are dated, don't have decent used primer disposal and the linkage design is not ergonomically adaptable in most cases. Some do have decent linkage, but not better and none have a decent used primer disposal system that I'm aware of. (one might, but I don't know of it). Weight and cast iron alone don't make for a really good single stage. Good design of the frame and capabilities do.

Sarcasm, no - the Lee pushed my USA made Rock Chucker right OFF my bench and into the swap and sale. It would have done that to any press anywhere close to it in price. You can't find anything for sale new any where near it's price range (and even a bunch of presses for a lot more money) that'll beat it right now. And while the used presses are cheaper, very few offer the features the Lee does. In particular the used primer disposal.

Now you may be able to find a press with "nicer" finish, that feels better, but not better function, which is what counts the most.


Pb2au:

If you are looking for replacement toggles TP3007, the Challenger press was discontinued in 2006 and the Toggles (the part that goes from the Ram to the Lever) are no longer available. You are able to update the Toggle system with the newer style currently found on the Breech Lock Challenger Press. The parts needed to do this are as follows:

(1) OF3221 - Ram Pin - http://leeprecision.com/ram-pin-step.html

(1) OF3613 - Lever Clamp - http://leeprecision.com/Press-Lever-Clamp.html


(1) OF3609 - Washer - http://leeprecision.com/1-3-16-steel-washer.html

(1) FO2113 - Bolt - http://leeprecision.com/1-1-4-5-16-18-bolt.html

(2) OF2853 - Toggles - http://leeprecision.com/bl-challenger-toggle.html

I knew there was a replacement toggle setup, but couldn't remember it, as I've not owned either of those presses. Way to go 44Vaquero!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

You guys nailed it. I don't think either Ultramag or Champion will break.

Take care

r1kk1

Redding Ultramag - $311.99 current price at Midwayusa
C&H Champion press $321 at C&H
Lee Challenger Breechlock (current version of Challenger) $67.99 at Midwayusa

Not sure that's apples to apples comparing. Come on now.:coffeecom

While those big presses are certainly durable and will last a lifetime, I'm thinking the Pb2au's original Challenger gave him 20 years of service for a good bit less than what those presses cost. That current Challenger Breechlock, with it's steel compound linkage, is likely to last a lot longer than 20 years. It also has a couple features they don't offer, such as the breech lock system and left/right operator setup. Not sure it can handle huge cartridges, but for most reloading, it oughta do just fine.

[troyboy]

At the end of the day they all reload ammo. The rest is just personal taste. Buy what you want its a choice.

[r1kk1]

While those big presses are certainly durable and will last a lifetime, I'm thinking the Pb2au's original Challenger gave him 20 years of service for a good bit less than what those presses cost. That current Challenger Breechlock, with it's steel compound linkage, is likely to last a lot longer than 20 years. It also has a couple features they don't offer, such as the breech lock system and left/right operator setup. Not sure it can handle huge cartridges, but for most reloading, it oughta do just fine.

Your right they don't handle breechlock bushings. Two of the presses handle LNL bushings. I don't care for the original linkage on the Challenger as mine went back to the factory in the late 80s. I'm glad Lee upgraded the linkage but primer disposal still sucks. That didn't change but was addressed in two out of three of the CC series. The aluminum frame of the Challenger was quite capable of what I was doing, sadly the original linkage was not.

My response was not necessarily aimed at the OP just a statement you made about no finer press made being the CC. I beg to differ as quite a few people will. I do not have the biggest and baddest press as I believe that honor goes to the OLd Western Scrounger Rock Crusher press with a weight of 103 pounds and a solid 1-⅝" ram. CH4D now sells these. There are quite a few old presses from yesteryear that are monsters and can be had with patience and combing ads and to top it off cheap! I couldn't pass on the NIB Ultramag for 100.00 dollars.

Everyone can buy what they want and they do. That's what makes the world go around. Now I'm on the hunt for vintage monsters of days gone buy. They are still serviceable equipment that I would give a good home to and use. Just a matter of patience and time. If you notice not one press is anywhere like the others in the group photo. There is a reason. I appreciate a well made tool, with fine craftsmanship. Just pulling the handle on one you can tell the difference. Are any of them without faults? Not really just some quirks of ergonomics or such. The only other single stage not in the photo is my very old Lee hand press. It Never has let me down on numerous hunting and range tips.

Dave you make some good points. I enjoy your postings for the most part. I really do. I do not believe the CC is the best press. I was a little astonished at the weight and fit as well as finish. I do hope John improves this over time. The one at the Reloading Room in Denver was new. I passed. I've owned every Lee press except for the LM and the Pro 1000. I kept one. Because it has works since the 80s. Not a problem.

Take care

r1kk1

[EDG]

If you want a press that can be used for heavy duty case forming operations - that is giving it a beating, stay away from a die cast aluminum press.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

r1kk1, answers in your quote in red


Your right they don't handle breechlock bushings. Two of the presses handle LNL bushings. Since I haven't used the breech locks, I can't comment on which of the two is preferable, but the two presses mentioned are bigger and heavier, but that's not always needed and new, they're very expensive.

I don't care for the original linkage on the Challenger as mine went back to the factory in the late 80s. I'm glad Lee upgraded the linkage but primer disposal still sucks.Yes, the challenger does, which is one reason why I prefer the Classic line they've come out with.

That didn't change but was addressed in two out of three of the CC series. I just checked and from the Lee website, the Classic Cast and the Classic Challenger based on the Classic Cast both have through ram primer disposal. So does the Classic Turret.

The aluminum frame of the Challenger was quite capable of what I was doing, sadly the original linkage was not.Which is why it's a good thing the young Lee is correcting 20 years of stubbornness on his father's part. Unfortunately, folks get just as stubborn and refuse to give credit where it's due. The new Classic presses are really quite good.

My response was not necessarily aimed at the OP just a statement you made about no finer press made being the CC. I did not say it was the "finest" press out there. I said: "To date, there hasn't been a manufacturer out there that makes a better o-frame type single stage press than the Lee Classic Cast single stage." I'll stick by that statement. If you consider all the variables (Strength, versatility, features, cost, etc.), nothing out there is any better at making cartridges.

I beg to differ as quite a few people will.You may differ, but have you actually used one? I have, along with a USA made Rock Chucker, which is known is a very good press. Many, including myself, thought of it as near the top. It was only when I put the Lee next to it that it lost it's crown in my thinking.

I do not have the biggest and baddest press as I believe that honor goes to the OLd Western Scrounger Rock Crusher press with a weight of 103 pounds and a solid 1-⅝" ram. CH4D now sells these.For my purposes, biggest and baddest aren't the criteria I use to select a single stage. I go with features mostly, but am willing to pay for a significant advantage. I load a large range of rifle cartridges and at one time, that was a very large range. Much of the reloading was single stage. The only advantage any of the "biggest and baddest" older presses have out there over the Lee is size. And that size is simply over kill for reloading until you're loading very large cartridges. The Lee, I can say from personal experience, is a very smooth operating press for all of the cartridges I reload. I wouldn't use it for 50 bmg, even though it's strong enough, because I do agree with you that when you get to the biggest cartridges, size does have value. But for all of the "normal" stuff, the Classic is plenty smooth enough.

There are quite a few old presses from yesteryear that are monsters and can be had with patience and combing ads and to top it off cheap! I couldn't pass on the NIB Ultramag for 100.00 dollars. And they're all big, very heavy, hard to move around/store if you've limited bench space and is one available with through ram used primer disposal so you're press doesn't get nasty with primer residue? I'm not aware of one.

Also, if you're new, just starting out and want to get reloading "now," are you going to be patient enough to wait until you find one of these lovely old gems? Most guys aren't, in my experience. The Lee Classic provides a premium press at a very affordable new/full retail price. It really does.

Everyone can buy what they want and they do. That's what makes the world go around. Now I'm on the hunt for vintage monsters of days gone buy. They are still serviceable equipment that I would give a good home to and use. Just a matter of patience and time. If you notice not one press is anywhere like the others in the group photo. There is a reason. I appreciate a well made tool, with fine craftsmanship. Just pulling the handle on one you can tell the difference. Are any of them without faults? Not really just some quirks of ergonomics or such. The only other single stage not in the photo is my very old Lee hand press. It Never has let me down on numerous hunting and range tips.They are nice presses, I agree, but there's a reason most are no longer made. And there's a reason the Lee Classic will be made for a long time, just like the Rock Chucker.

Dave you make some good points. I enjoy your postings for the most part. I really do. I do not believe the CC is the best press. I was a little astonished at the weight and fit as well as finish. Not sure if you're commenting positively or negatively, but I want to reiterate, I didn't say "best." For a cast iron press, it's pretty light, but the design of the cast iron frame is extremely ridgid.

I do hope John improves this over time. The one at the Reloading Room in Denver was new. I passed.You should have given it a chance and tried it out. You would of been surprised like I was. I got mine wholesale when I was working as a gunsmith for a whopping $50.00 bucks. Best money I ever spent on a single stage.

I've owned every Lee press except for the LM and the Pro 1000.At some time in the future, I am going to buy a LM. I'm waiting till they get the last of these bugs worked out of it or an after market guy comes up with permanent, inexpensive solutions for it's problems. They're getting close now from what I'm reading. Gonna set it up for my favorite .45ACP cartridge and leave it that way.

I kept one. Because it has works since the 80s. Not a problem.

Take care

r1kk1

Take care r1kk1, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I urge you to try the Lee Classic out. You won't be disappointed.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I have a Lee CC . If cost is factor then it is a great press for the money. As far as being the finest press made to date, I respectfully disagree. 20 yrs of service is great. But I have presses made in the 50s that are still going strong and will continue to for many more years to come. But if everyone agreed on everything life would be pretty boring!

[r1kk1]

No there was no negativity directed towards your posts Dave. I do enjoy your posts for the most part. I agree to disagree. The Challenger when I looked on the website has the primer disposal to the side like the breech lock CC. Hated it on my Challenger when I had it. I use pipe cleaners to clean the drilled through ram on one press or through the primer disposal tube on another and a little different on the ram of the Ultramag. It works. I have not spent much time on the Summit to see how the primer disposal is but I don't have high hopes.

I'm left handed and two of the presses work for either hand. Most left handed people learn to be ambidextrous anyways.

Take care brother,

r1kk1

[ACrowe25]

Time for the ol' classic cast it seems! lol

All kidding aside, Lee doesn't claim to make the bulkiest sturdiest press to last 8 lifetimes. The make a product that lasts maybe 1 lifetime for a FRACTION of the cost. Goes back to how many times do you want to buy vs. crying?

For what I use my Lee single stage for (depriming ONLY or allowing newbies to load on it...) no reason to buy a RC. None at all!

If I was doing other things... sure. But I'm sure my depriming LEE will last me and my sons lifetime with the type of easy use it gets.

[bbqncigars]

Forty six years ago I bought my Co-Ax that I still use. I also enjoy using the CC that I bought solely to load 50BMG (and size .510 j-words). The CC is one heck of a press for the money, and their BMG dies work better than the RCBS set I tried. Lee is doing some things a lot better as time goes by, and they're still U.S. made. At $106.99 (Midway), you could have two or three CC for the price of other presses that won't do the job any better. YMMV.