pc boolits real dirty

[Benjlan]

Hey guys quick question:

Just starting PCing boolits and they are shooting real dirty.

-harbor freight PC system and red HF paint
-Lee 6 cav. 9mm 125gr mold
-straight wheel weights
-1 coat 20 minutes@400
-4.3 grains Bullseye powder
-winchester sp primer
-g34 glock with Lone Wolf barrel

I poured the boolits, powder coated, sized, loaded, in the same day. Does the PC need to cure longer? Or am I missing something else? Oh yeah sized to .356 with a Lee push through.

Any help would be great
Ben

[Fire_Medic]

Have you slugged that barrel?

[Benjlan]

Looks like .3558ish

[dverna]

What is the "dirt"? Is it unburned smokeless powder (not likely with BE), Powder Coat, lead?

I would think if you are sizing before PC bullet fit should be OK. PC should add .002/3 to the .356.

Did you see any "dirt" with lubed bullets?

Don Verna

[Benjlan]

Yeah dirt is not a good description. Its more like deposits. Like a real dirty burning powder. But I use this load for jacketed loads and it is not like this. I was thinking about the PC not being cured fully and coming off. I did everything all in the same day. How long till the PC cures?

Ben

[popper]

It is thermally cured, after properly cooking. Not the same for your alloy, it needs to harden, unless WD right from the oven. Does the 'dirt' brush out easily? I think I got some lead 'dusting' that brushed out easily (chamber end) after ~ 400 rnds in 40, using 231 (have a slower powder to try?). Could have been a couple shaved of coating, don't know but it took a long time to get there.

[Benjlan]

It does brush out easy but it doesn't look like lead. It looks more like burnt titegroup. I water dropped after casting but not after the oven. Would the oven take hardness out of the lead enough that PC wouldn't protect my boolit? Also I'm not using gcs. The bases are not coated either. Also the crud came in the 4-5th shot not hundreds.

Ben

[prickett]

The baking PC removes the benefit from WD (i.e. it softens the boolits). Allow them time to age harden.

[alfloyd]

Also you are sizing so you have only 0.0002 over groove diameter.
You still need 1 to 2 thousands over groove diameter.

Lafaun

[Benjlan]

Oh, I was thinking the PC was as good as a jacket. Still needs to be a larger sized boolit though. I only have a .356 sizer I think I will size and then PC and check the measurement. With luck maybe it will be .357ish or .358. Thanks guys.

Ben

[bangerjim]

The HF red need to get VERY hot to turn black or burn. If the "dirt" (poor description) is not red, you have unburned powder or residue created by combustion, not PC.

I have never found any colored "dirt" in my barrels. In fact.....NO fouling at all!

As stated above, you are loosing ALL your hardness with WS when baking the PC. I do not worry about any hardness from WD....I just formulate my metal to be the correct hardness with air cool.
You CAN drop them right out of the oven, but at 400, you will not gain near the same hardness as dropping at 600+ right out of the mold.

Also, after many many rounds, I have found you only need to bake 10 minutes at 400F. I do not care what the bottle says! All commercial powders use 10 minutes. Any longer is a waste of your time and electricity. All my boolits easily pass the hammer test and leave nothing in the barrel.......ever.

I use standard CB loads for PC's loads.......NOT jacketed load data. Some DO.....I DO NOT. And I have never had any problems like you are seeing.

Watch your size. Boolit diameter causes more problems that any other single item in our hobby!


good shooting! :Fire:

banger

ps........I'm an old Iowa boy! Grad of Ames.

[popper]

The proper AC alloy will harden with age, ~ 2 weeks. I have shot full jacketed loads from W308 & 40SW with HF PC, red & white, no problems. Size & alloy still matter.

[a.squibload]

I get some "residue" in the barrel too, comes right out with a boresnake.
Wondering if the slick PC boolits are lowering pressure causing incomplete combustion?
Have read a report of reduced pressure signs on cases from PC boolits, it was a guy here who makes stuff for swaging, not BT, will try to find out who that was (or remember but that's not likely!).
+1 on 10 min at 400. Is that really long enough to anneal a boolit? Also does hardness matter if the boolit is coated with PC? I thought that was one of the advantages of PC.

Boolit vs barrel diameter is still important.

I'll try some 231 IF I CAN EVER FIND SOME!

[a.squibload]

Edit: found it, Danr, a Vendor Sponsor, post #1875 on this page:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171403-Powder-Coating-Boolits/page94

Ok I thought I was editing, am I editing now?
Cue Twilight Zone music...

[bangerjim]

I get some "residue" in the barrel too, comes right out with a boresnake.
Wondering if the slick PC boolits are lowering pressure causing incomplete combustion?
Have read a report of reduced pressure signs on cases from PC boolits, it was a guy here who makes stuff for swaging, not BT, will try to find out who that was (or remember but that's not likely!).
+1 on 10 min at 400. Is that really long enough to anneal a boolit? Also does hardness matter if the boolit is coated with PC? I thought that was one of the advantages of PC.

Boolit vs barrel diameter is still important.

I'll try some 231 IF I CAN EVER FIND SOME!

I WD all my castings, not to gain hardness, but to cool them so I KNOW when I pick them up they are cool. I have checked the hardness and then compared to hardness after PC baking for 10 min. Gained WD hardness is pretty much gone with air cool after PC. Depends on your alloy, but mine does not have a lot of Sb in it. With more, mabe you would maintain the WD gained hardness. Sounds like a good weekend experiment!!!!! You can WD after PC.

PC offers a "harder" coating (protecting the barrel) but does not contribute anything to boolit toughness which, depending on your usage, is important. Keeping the bhn "out of the basement" is still important to performance.

banger

[a.squibload]

Thanks Banger, that's what I wanted to know.
All these PC Test Boolits were sorted range scrap (no jaxketed),
probably a little Sb as they were all cast. Main use for now is crashing into
a hanging steel target (or the dirt!). Focusing on getting all the lead to exit the barrel.
Good to know that the toaster oven could be used to heat treat 'em.
I used to WD everything 'cause that was the thing to do.
If I go for hard I'll WD after baking the PC.

[Maximumbob54]

I find this interesting since I'm having the same problem with Longshot in .40SW loads. I was told to check them with a chrono to see if they are the same or if I'm full of deviation.