Lee Molds for loading for an old 1894 Winchester .30-30?

[guywitha3006]

Hello,

My Grandpa gave me his deer rifle some time back so that it will stay in the family. It is an old 1894 .30 WCF (.30-30) half octagonal half round barrel with Buck horn sights, from the early years of production. It has been sitting in the safe for the last few years since he could no longer hunt. He passed away a few months ago, and I have been getting the urge to get out and put a few rounds through it for quite some time. I have no doubt about the actions strength, since Grandpa shot all full power Winchester hunting ammo through it. However I do not want to put more stress on it then I have to, and light plinking loads are more fun to shoot, especially with new/young shooters. My fiance got to meet my grandpa fr a short while but has never seen his rifle let alone shot it, but I know she would like to shoot it because she knows how I feel about it.

So if you are still with me, here is what I am looking for:

I am wondering if anyone has tried using one of the LEE .32 caliber pistol molds to make boolits for some light plinking loads? I do not plan to shoot a bunch of them so I am thinking that the Lee 311-100-2R would be perfect. I plan to either pan lube them or just tumble lube them. The powder I will most likely use is Trailboss, I have it on hand and it makes for good bunny fart loads without fillers and such. I looked on the Hodgon online load data and the Lyman Cast bullet book and not much to go on for light bullets. Also what would be a good alloy, I am thinking mostly lead with either some wheel weights or tin added just for a little better mold fill out.

So any mold suggestions, lube choices, loads, advice, or anything else is appreciated.


Thanks,
Guywith3006

[northmn]

A mold made for that is the Lee 115grain "soup can" A flat nose mold designed for 30 calibers. For bunnies I would use WW and water drop them to make them hard otherwise just use WW or 1-20 tin to lead or maybe 1-30. Tin helps with either lead or WW. When water dropping bullets should be used as cast. My rifles generally like the Lee liquid alox which should work for for very light loads. Another sugestion would be to get the Lee 150 grain flatnose in case you get an urge to use the rifle for something bigger. I have used the 150 with light loads with good results.

DP

[guywitha3006]

Thanks for the reply. I have the 115 grain mold already, the problem is it is a glass check mold. I was hoping to keep the velocity between 1000 and 1200 so I was hoping to save the expense and hassle of a gas check. More then likely it will only be for punching paper or soda cans at 25-50 yards so I am not concerned about explanation or penetration just accuracy and minimal or no leading.

[w30wcf]

guy,
The Lee 100 gr rn works very well in the .30-30. 5 - 6 grs of Trail Boss will meet your velocity goal.

w30wcf

[guywitha3006]

W30wcf thanks that's what I was hoping. What would be a good alloy? 20-1?

[guicksylver]

I know money can be a stumbling block.

I have a 94 similar to yours.

Worth maybe $1000.00-$1,200.00

Made in 1917.

I put an original Lyman tang sight on it.($150.00)

With 20 grains of Rx7 and a Lyman 311407 it will shoot
5/8" groups all day long.

These guns will shoot.

Don't just leave them in the "plinker" category.

Or just use "plinker" boolits.

Single loaded they can take a wide range of boolit styles.

They are serious tools.

Here is a good site http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewforum.php?f=1

[guywitha3006]

Quickslyver thanks, I know it can shoot and eventually I will move beyond plinking but right now I want to introduce my fiance to it. I would also hate for anything to happen to it with a full power load the sentimental value (my grandfather's deer rifle) is worth more then any cash value.

[DLCTEX]

How about a round ball load for short yardage plinking?

[smkummer]

While not a "bunny load", I am shooting Lyman's 311041 170 FP gas check bullet with Unique going out at about 1500 FPS instead of 2200 FPS which would be a factory load. This closely duplicates the old 32-40 cartridge. Very mild in a pre-64 20" carbine and with the rear sight elevated to the second highest position, I was hitting a 16" metal plate at 200 yards just yesterday. It would be even more mild of a load in a rifle. For comparison, its about like shooting a .357 revolver cartridge out of a rifle so as to give you an idea about recoil.

[Lonegun1894]

I have used a lot of the Lee 90gr .312 SWC, sized to .311, with LLA as lube, over 2.7grs Unique for a lot of small game and garden pests and fired out of both a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336, both in .30-30. This is fairly quiet so it doesn't intimidate her (assuming she isn't very experienced just to be on the safe side), and has no recoil. This bullet is pointed, so common wisdom would say to not use it in a tube magazine, but the recoil is like a .22LR so not enough to set off a primer and cause a detonation. Considering the very low velocities this load gives, I just use whatever scrap lead I happen to have, and have not gotten any leading from any of it, and this has ranged from WDWW on the hard end, on down to "pure" lead from a box of round balls I was given for a caliber that I don't have a muzzleloader for so melted them down and cast some of these with it. BTW, this mold cast a 93gr bullet the only time I weighed one of these, which should be close enough to your 100gr mold, or even your "soup can" mold. Using these loads, I get well under 1K fps, and leading is just not an issue, so the GC on yours isn't needed. I would load up a few to see what happens. Worst case scenario is that you have a bit of leading which cleans out easily, but I doubt you will.

[guywitha3006]

Lonegun that is what I am looking for. Do you use a filler at all with only 2.7 grains of unique?

[helice]

Years ago, before I found this forum, I had some correspondence with C.E.Harris concerning the 30-30. He informed me that 5 grains of almost any pistol/shotgun powder will work for reduced small game/plinking loads. He had tried PB, Red Dot, Green Dot, 700X, Bullseye, 231W and Unique. It works nicely with my 311316 (sorry - it's gas checked) from my Trapper, far better than I had originally assumed. Velocities will be similar to those of the 32-20. I eventually got a couple 115 gr. LBT moulds (designed for the 32 H&R Ma?num) that are of more generous diameter. There is a lot of room for experimenting here with powders you may already have. Hope this helps. It helped me.

I never used any filler. These pistol powders are so easy to light off. Extreme spreads were minimal with 231, 700X and Red Dot.:coffeecom

[northmn]

Try the soup can bullet without a gas check. The 120 works OK in my 32-20. Cast them a little harder.

DP

[Lonegun1894]

I don't use any kind of fillers. For what it's worth, IIRC, 5.0grs Unique with a 90-100gr bullet should be somewhere around 1000-1200fps, while my 2.7gr Unique load is was 450fps the one time I checked it, but I don't remember which caliber this was in, as I use the same load in .30-30, .308Win, .30-06, and .303 Brit. And with the different case capacities, I am sure the velocities differ quite a bit. Regardless of which of those cases, the pistol powders light easily. I have used Unique, Red Dot, and Bulls Eye for these loads, and Unique seemed to give me the most consistent groups, so I stayed with it, but didn't do extensive testing with the others, so may have easily missed a good load.

[runfiverun]

rcbs makes a nice 313 diameter 98gr rnfp that's plain based. [it's for the 32-20]
it will do well in the 30-30 with the above light loads.
I use the same boolit in my 30 carbine revolver over a 32-20 load of 700-x and it performs there as a small game load on stuff like rabbits and grouse just as well as in the rifle.

[Boogieman]

I have used that Lee 113gr. boolit over 14gr. of 2400 It cronoed 1664 fps with 33fps ES out of a 20" BL Mdl 94 Win hit about same POA. as 170gr. factory load at 50yds About like a 32-20.

[Punkinslinger]

This thread is maybe a little old but it seems like the place for this question. I have a 94 Winchester made in 1906 and wish to use it for deer or just plinking . I've loaded some cast 170 gr ( purchased ) with Winchester 748 for a 1400 fps per the Lyman cast bullet handbook. The main part of my concern is how much pressure this old gun will handle. I've also loaded 150 gr jacketed to what the book says will be 2100 fps intended for a late 40's model 94. Will the old 94 be fine with either load? Thanks

[John Boy]

Standard load ... 170 gr (11 g) FP 2,227 ft/s ... your within the fps

[lobogunleather]

For light loads, small game or plinking, you can use gas check bullets without the gas checks without problems. I have loaded thousands of the Lee C309-170 without gas checks in .30-30 and other calibers for training the kids and practice ammo.

As others have pointed out, just about any of the shotgun/handgun powders (Unique, Red Dot, etc) will give good performance at minimal loadings. You will probably have to tinker with sight settings to get on target at just about any range.

Strongly recommend that the cartridge cases you use for reduced loads be segregated from other brass and used only for reduced loads. Personally, I use new rifle brass for 4 or 5 full power loads then keep them separate for reduced loads, and they will last indefinitely. But returning the cases to full power loads after using for reduced loads can cause problems (more so in rimless cartridges than rimmed).

[Punkinslinger]

Thanks for the replies. My main concern is what loads to avoid in the 1906 model 94. Should I avoid factory jacketed bullets or are they fine for the old gun? Thanks

[guywitha3006]

Punkinslinger, my grandfather never batted an eye loading full power factory Remington/Winchester loads every deer season into his (now mine) 1894 (Pre-1900) I have also shot them on occasion with good success (none at critters though). I have no problem shooting a box or two at the range, I just don't know if I would put more than a box or two in a day (the whole sentimental thing more than anything). It's on my todo list to get it back out in the field where it belongs... maybe this year if the weather is dry come November. :?

If you are handloading look for middle to lower end of the range. It performs well as a moderate cartridge and was never designed to be "hot rodded". I'd love to know how many deer my rifle shot before it came into my possession. But I will probably never know, my grandpa bought it used a LONG time ago and had it for 50+ years himself. My dad used to laugh and say if my grandpa had put a notch in the stock for every buck he shot with it, the stock would have disintegrated a long time ago.

Now this has me day dreaming of opening day... only~3 weeks to go. [smilie=w:

[Wayne Smith]

The issue with the older Winchester/Marlin and other rifles is less their ability to handle the pressure of the round but the wear strength of the steel. Thus the advice to use cast boolits in the older ones. Your 1906 should be, I think, of a more modern steel.

[Ric-san]

Great info/replies so far...

[blixen]

I shot boolits from my new Ranch Dog mold through my '05 Mod. 94 last weekend.
152703
I was VERY happy with the groups. This 5-shot group, 1.5" without the flyer, was the best of a 2.5" average. This rifle likes just about any reasonable-weight boolit i put through it: Lee 175 flat point, Lee 185 Round point (Brit) and the 155 Lee SKS slug. (Of course you should avoid stacking pointy cartridges in the tube magazine.)
My barrel is Winchester's famous "Nickel Steel," but I don't shoot jacketed anyway.
I didn't get as good of results with the plain-based Ranch Dogs--I'll try again with 5 grains or less of powder.
I have the 90gr. lee mold for an old .32 acp, but I haven't had much luck with it in 30-30.

[gpidaho]

A plinking load that works very well in my 30-30 Handi rifle is the Lee Tl-314-90-SWC sized .310 45-45-10 lubed over 5.5gr TiteGroup. May want to load them for single shot in the 94 for safety sake on the fine old rifle. Gp