How much would you sell your 500 rnd 22lr boxes for?

[taiden]

Alright there is a wide range of opinion on here about what 22lr is worth, with some saying that those asking high prices are way out of line and don't deserve any business at all. So let me ask this question... please think hard about it before voting.

Given what you have RIGHT NOW and the CURRENT SITUATION with 22lr, how much would you be willing to sell your 500 round boxes for? Assume I'm talking about the plane jane stuff like Federal, Blazer, Remington Golden, etc etc. I'm talking about someone knocking on your door asking politely if you have any 22lr for sale, what would you sell it to them for?

Poll is anonymous so no worries there.

A recent discussion about this can be found here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226418-22LR-abundant

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

They are not for sale ... ;)

[bhn22]

I sold off my .22 rifles & handguns. I just sold most of my .22 LR ammo for $45.00/brick. I kept a couple of thousand rounds for trading stock. I found myself not willing to pay the going street prices, and unwilling to shoot my remaining stockpile because it was getting to expensive, and difficult to replace. Light loads in a 30/30 or .357 lever action will do the same thing. I may reconsider later, but it's not likely.

[jcwit]

At present not for sale, but at my age anything can change. If I was to sell it would be at auction, let the buyer set the price.

[ole 5 hole group]

I would sell at the price I could replace them at considering expenses. Right now that's about $28.00 a value pack (525 rounds) - 24.95 plus tax plus 1/2 gallon of gas. I really don't believe in taking advantage of anyone, especially hunters/fishermen/shooters and general outdoorsmen.

Acquiring 22's have been spotty at best around here but Fleet Farm over in Brainerd, MN will get them in every so often and if you have a friend in the area, they can pick them up and hold on to them until you pass through.

Right now my son in laws and grandkids acquire value packs free of charge but I get a little work out of them every now and again, so I think I probably come out ahead when it's all said and done.

[357maximum]

Mine ain't for sale...wife enjoys her 10/22 too much and I kind of like my anatomy the way it is. :mrgreen:

[plmitch]

I sell off any extras for what I pay, plenty around here so hard to make anything off them. I would love to make a profit off them like others do, help pay for my habit.

[bubba.50]

had some federal 550 round bulk-pack boxes I gave about 7 bucks for a few years back, prices at recent gunshows were 60-65 bucks a box. offered mine to a feller for 40 bucks & he acted like he was stealin' from me.

[HeavyMetal]

Do I have some for sale now?

No. But what I do have was bought "pre rip off" so If I needed to sell some it would come down to what it would cost to replace it.

Sadly I am not shooting as much as I used to, work and travel time just take it out of me any more, but I do have a few bricks stashed for special occasions and keep an eye open for deals that come up.

I do keep hearing all types of scuttlebutt about why and how we ain't got none. I also hear that the manufacturers are running round the clock to make RF rounds to keep up with demand.

The real question is: where is it if they are running round the clock?

[gew98]

In my rural abode when wally world has federal 525's they are $25 each...but forget about finding it. Some jackarses literally buy it up every single time !. These are the same jackarses that ask 60 to 90 bucks locally for what they paid $25 for...vampires !.
I'd love to shoot more 22's with the boy....but refuse to pay these opportunist scumbuckets prices.

[monadnock#5]

NO SALE! I like my .22's, and I don't see the current situation improving any time soon. Unfortunately.

[lylejb]

If I were to sell any, it would have to be the right kind of situation, like a fellow member here, or at my local gun club, or scout troop, or a friend or neighbor needing ammo to teach the kids shooting.

Some unknown person knocking at my door = sorry, don't have any.

As well as some unknown person knocking at your door, asking about ammo, might be sizing up the place for future theft. I.E. if he has ammo, he must have guns.

If in the right situation, it would be whatever it cost me, $20 - $25

I picked up a rem 525 bulk box about 2 weeks ago for $20. Not my favorite, but was in the right place at the right time. It is available if you watch.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am a hoarder, I had quite the stockpile of 22LR (Fed Lightning and Win wildcat) that was boughten during the Clinton Regime. So when the Obama/Newtown craziness began, I started letting loose of some of that stockpile. I have given away some 22LR ammo to friends, free of charge, if they and their Kids had none and wanted some...AND it was obvious that their income was less then mine. To everyone else I know, it's been $40 a brick. To those I don't know, it's been $50.

my rational:
Bargain 22LR prices seem to follow primer prices, times two. It seems the new retail pricing for primers is near $40 per thousand. So I suspect the new retail pricing for 22LR, once the "demand to stockpile" wanes, will be near $40 per 500.

[Kraschenbirn]

I might share some of what I have with my regular shooting buddies if they were to run short at the range, otherwise, NOT FOR SALE!

Bill

[merlin101]

I've given some to some kids at the range when dad was running out and I gave some and sold a few to friends that 'needed' them. As far as selling to a stranger , it wouldn't really happen but if it did it would be $60+ and more on the PLUS side!
Go ahead and flame away

[snowwolfe]

I have already turned down $50 per box. Have enough to last me for at least a few years.
Would I sell them for a higher price? Most likely I would sell some. Not sure what price it would take me to let them go. Not in the market to make money but at some point the realization sets in that I paid under $9 a brick and that selling them for at least 6 times that would make financial sense.
But, I would keep at least a two year supply for myself regardless of what I was offered.

[9.3X62AL]

I am very unlikely to sell any 22 LR that I manage to find. It is too scarce for that. I did give some to a landowner on whose property we hunted last spring, his grandkids didn't have 22 LR ammo to shoot--and I'm NOT HAVING THAT. But otherwise, I keep what I find to use and enjoy with my kids and grandkids.

[TXGunNut]

I'd sell it for replacement cost, in my area it's still essentially unavailable so it's not for sale. I don't have much to begin with but if someone I know needed some he could have it and replace it later when things settle down. I've done that with surplus primers, not sure I'll ever see them again, lol.

[schutzen]

I too am a hoarder and have a good stock pile. But I have sold several bricks to select local shooters. Most are young fathers trying to teach their sons how to shoot. For those guys I sell them a brick for $15 with the provision that they do not tell where they got it. My personal belief it that all good shooters have a responsibility to insure future generations have the opportunity to learn about and appreciate firearms. Unless we as shooters are proactive about responsible firearms exposure and education, the loony tunes with control our world and probably destroy it. I feel this is a small way I can help promote responsible firearms ownership. I'm not criticizing anyone who does not share their stash, but I'm sure mine is large enough to get me through this ammunition drought and I can share. Just something to consider if you are very well stocked.

Just a post script: Primers and Powder are another story. Most guys that use those are older and should have known better. I continue to hoard.

[9.3X62AL]

The 2nd part of the question would be "What price would you be willing to pay?" for that same brick of 22 LR. Before the most recent insanity, I was paying about $6.50-$7.00 per 100-rd box of CCI Mini-Mags. $32.50-$35.00 per brick. in other words. If the CCI MMs ever return to shelves, I expect the price to be in the $40/brick area. I will grudgingly pay that for the Mini-Mags and SGBs, and for the CCI Standard Velocity 22 LR. I'm not about to pay that for Rem Thunderfart Balk-O-Matic junk ammo--I won't buy that or expose my guns to it at any price.

[pretzelxx]

Where I'm at currently I could sell a brick for $80 at "fair" market value. That being said I could get my hands in two blocks... I wouldn't sell them unless someone offered twice that.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The 2nd part of the question would be "What price would you be willing to pay?" for that same brick of 22 LR. Before the most recent insanity, I was paying about $6.50-$7.00 per 100-rd box of CCI Mini-Mags. $32.50-$35.00 per brick. in other words. If the CCI MMs ever return to shelves, I expect the price to be in the $40/brick area. I will grudgingly pay that for the Mini-Mags and SGBs, and for the CCI Standard Velocity 22 LR. I'm not about to pay that for Rem Thunderfart Balk-O-Matic junk ammo--I won't buy that or expose my guns to it at any price.

I'm with you, that I won't shoot cheap/low grade 22LR ammo in my guns and I have enough Federal match target ammo and other brands of similar grade ammo to last me a lifetime.

BUT with that said,
I don't expect to see the price I'm willing to pay for low grade/bulk 22LR, and that would be similar to this...in Mid 2012, my daugher bought a case CCI Blazer 525 Paks for just under $17 per Pak. I'd buy that case again :)
But I wouldn't be paying $20.

[Outpost75]

They are not for sale ... ;)

+1 on that.

.22 ammunition will beat the stock market. Anyone want a 500 brick of Eley Tenex for a gold Krugerrand? :roll:

[GOPHER SLAYER]

A few years ago a friend gave me a very large amount of ammo, both rim fire and center fire. His brother, who had recently passed away had been buying all kinds of ammo for years. By large amount, let your imagination run wild. My friend said if I would sell his brother's guns he would give me the ammo. I drove home with the backseat full of guns and ammo, the trunk full and the front seat and floor board full and all the while praying that a cop didn't stop me. I had no trouble selling the guns. In this hoard of ammo was over thirty thousand rounds of .22 long rifle. It was a mixture of CCI Blazer, Rem.Thunderbolt, Win. Wildcat and some I don't remember. I didn't sell a brick of it. I gave most of it away. My brother has two sons and three grandsons. They shot up most of it. The only long rifle I keep is Winchester Dynapoint. For some reason that cheap stuff shoots great in just about any weapon. If I had it to do today I would handle it the same way. I can' calculate the amount of center fire ammo that was in the stash but it took two car loads to haul the stuff home. As a final note, I still have over three thousand rounds of .22lr but I rarely shoot a 22. When I go to the range I want to shoot something that has some oom-pah-pah.

[starmac]

I give away some every now and then, but do not remember ever selling any. I have however picked up some several times for someone else that needed some, but can't get to the store for some reason or other, and they paid me back, so I guess I sold it for the price I paid. I would think that if I decided to get rid of what I have left it would either be given to family or sold to friends for whatever sportsmans is currently getting when they have it. If a stranger knocked on my door looking for ammo, we would not get along very well, I'm thinking.

[btroj]

I have about 8 bricks of 500. Mine aren't for sale.

For arguements sake I will say that I would sell them for whatever the market will bear.

[taiden]

To all the guys who said $20, please PM me I have cash in hand. :bigsmyl2:

but seriously, the poll results are reasonable and to be expected given the current situation with 22lr. I hold no grudge against any man who wants to sell his 22lr at $40, $50 or even $60. Just as much as it's his right to charge what he wishes, it is my right to move on until I find a better deal! Good on you all who are willing to give up some boxes for family and friends, especially new shooters.

I first got into shooting right after Sandy Hook. At the time, I figured now is better than never and jumped right in. I had no ammo to feed my 22/45. My landlord fronted me a 550 box of Federal. At the time, my only other option was to spend about $100-$120 on Gun Broker plus shipping. He was very kind to pass it along.

Later on, after I scored some of my own ammo, I paid him back with about 650 round mix of what I was able to find.

So thank you to all who are helping out the new guys.

[jonas302]

On auction I would expect 75-80 a brick for standard bulk ammo

[uscra112]

Not for Sale.

But when my local sheriff bought my 10/22, I did give him a box of "bumped" MiniMags, since he planned to hunt raccoons with it. (Bumped in a Waltz tool to give them a flat point and uniform bullet OD. - most accurate ammo I ever found for the lil' Ruger.) Would have done the same for any one of my farmer/hillbilly neighbors, but not for no city slicker.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I dont have that many- maybe 3 bricks, aint selling them. Especially when
all things considered, I can shoot cast in my Argentine and most verything else for a
about 11-18 cents a shot, cheaper than 22's!

[Jailer]

Not for sale.

I have given some to my nephew that shoots an indoor pistol league so he had something to shoot. His dad is too cheap to buy in quantity at any price and I'll be damned if I'm going to see that kid go without shooting. He's got a natural talent for shooting and needs to keep with it.

Having said that I'm dropping a 223 barrel off at a gunsmith tomorrow to have it shortened for my 22lr replacement project. No matter how much 22lr is in short supply I'll always have a re loadable small bore to shoot that I can cast for once it's complete.

[wlc]

I'm a hoarder :). Mine aren't for sale at any price at this time. I've bought 22 ammo a bit at a time for years and have a decent stash. I love shooting the 22's and want to keep shooting it. That said, If times got tough for our family financially then I'd sell at what the market would bear be it $25 a brick or $100 a brick and have no regrets for taking the money someone willingly paid me, but, I'd gladly GIVE someone some ammo if the need is truly there.

[Gator 45/70]

I have given away a few bricks in the last year. I prefer to make a friend than to hold a persons hand over the coals for a few bucks. Man can never have enough friends when he needs a little help or something.

[375supermag]

Not for sale.
If my gun club needed some for the smallbore league shooters, I would happily give them some.
Most of what I have is untouchable regardless.

[starmac]

taiden, except for maybe the rationing during WW2, you probably picked the worst time in history to start shooting. It will get better, hopefully a lot better. A lot of the other calibers that have been mostly extinct are staying back on the shelves now, I expect 22 ammo to be making a come back, but buy what you need when it does, because if Hillary gets elected, this will start all over.

[DRNurse1]

Nothing for sale here.

I am trying with little success to keep ahead of my kids competition needs. 240 rounds/ week for them, then whatever I need to shoot. I would like to shoot a match each month but I do not think I have ammo to last the year if I do that.

[Blacksmith]

I am still buying. Since this really got started I have given away over 10,000 rounds I have sold 1,000 and I have traded about 5,000. Family and friends (who had a need more important than plinking) got it free, the ones I sold I sold, to someone who bought a new gun, at $50 a brick which was my cost of those particular bricks. As trading stock I value the ammo at what I expect its replacement cost would be plus a premium because it is unobtainable however In some instances have insisted that friends take more than they were asking because they valued the "unobtainable premium" much higher than I. I still have ammo to shoot, give away or trade; I have ammo on order and continue to buy when the price is right because I don't yet see the end.

I voted $40 a brick because that is probably the amount reliable target ammo would sell for currently without the craziness and is about the amount I value my .22 at without the "unobtainable premium" . As the dollar purchasing power continues to decline the cost (not value) will continue to increase; however if there is a major problem in production or delivery the value will jump very high very quickly. There is a difference between cost and perceived value and the perceived value varies widely between individuals and locations. The perceived value is on the demand side of supply and demand and the price is on the supply side. Over time these two factors reach an equilibrium.

[jonp]

Interesting question as I was thinking of taking a few thousand to the gunshow this weekend and selling them. I thought considering what the going price was that $5/50 was fair enough which makes it $50/500. Sounded high to me so I didn't take them but considering whati saw them going for I would have had to beat people off with a stick.

[jonp]

The 2nd part of the question would be "What price would you be willing to pay?" for that same brick of 22 LR. Before the most recent insanity, I was paying about $6.50-$7.00 per 100-rd box of CCI Mini-Mags. $32.50-$35.00 per brick. in other words. If the CCI MMs ever return to shelves, I expect the price to be in the $40/brick area. I will grudgingly pay that for the Mini-Mags and SGBs, and for the CCI Standard Velocity 22 LR. I'm not about to pay that for Rem Thunderfart Balk-O-Matic junk ammo--I won't buy that or expose my guns to it at any price.
I saw the minimags at the show for $20/100. I wouldn't pay that myself but others did

[marvelshooter]

I did not see a "not for sale" option in the poll. I shoot 60 rounds a week in bullseye matches and I am not about to sell any. I see lots of guys that did not plan ahead scrambling to keep shooting.

[Czech_too]

"Not For Sale"

[kootne]

Thumb's up to those who help the kids. I think that is the best use of ammo there is.
Why would you sell? All you will get is the incredible shrinking dollar. Better to swap for something they got, that you want.
kootne

[jcwit]

+1 on that.

.22 ammunition will beat the stock market. Anyone want a 500 brick of Eley Tenex for a gold Krugerrand? :roll:

Eley Ten X is still selling for $190. bucks a brick.

And its in stock.

[Jammersix]

When I sell anything, I get as much as I can for it.

[swamp]

I am with the not for sale crowd. I have given a box of 550 to help out a kid. It is too hard and expensive to replace.
If I had to let some go it would be at current market.

swamp

[koehn,jim]

They are not for sale, selling them would put me in the same boat as the scum that try to profit from a bad situation. If a friend needs them they get them for free, with the understanding that one day they will be replaced.

[retread]

Not for sale. Kids need some.

[olereb]

I'm not selling mine until they are readily available again. I might consider selling some if I knew they were going to some local kids to learn to shoot or something like that but that is the only circumstance I would even think about it,if I did sell for that i'd charge what I paid.

[shooterg]

I often give a box of 50 to kids at the Range - make sure I tell the adult with 'em only the kid shoots 'em !
I'm down to maybe 20K . Not for sale, might trade if I really want something.

[WILCO]

Alright there is a wide range of opinion on here about what 22lr is worth....

Your poll is flawed, as there's no choice for "Fair Market Value".
Folks need to realize that one who purchases a product, can then decide how much said product should be resold for. I think one of the biggest problems facing our nation, is the fact that so many folks don't understand basic economics. People seem to think capitalism is a "Social" program and everything needs to be equal and fair, for everyone. Life doesn't work that way and neither does the free market.

[taiden]

Your poll is flawed, as there's no choice for "Fair Market Value".
Folks need to realize that one who purchases a product, can then decide how much said product should be resold for. I think one of the biggest problems facing our nation, is the fact that so many folks don't understand basic economics. People seem to think capitalism is a "Social" program and everything needs to be equal and fair, for everyone. Life doesn't work that way and neither does the free market.

I don't think it's flawed, because people can select what they believe market value to be in their area given today's prices. My only regret is not adding a "not for sale" option. Did you consider that this poll is intended to relay the exact same thing you are trying to say?

[MT Gianni]

I have no reason to sell what I have. I did sell a 500 rd pack of federal 50 in the box to a co-worker last year for $30. His son turned 14 and was given a 10-22 and a old High Standard 22 revolver from his grandfather. They could not find anything to feed it so I sold him some. I still feel good about it.

[starmac]

I did not check anything on the poll, because mine are basically not for sale. There are choices on the poll below market value and above fair market value, in any area that I have heard of as far as retail price. If a guy is talking about advertised prices from individuals selling them, that is kind of like scalpers selling tickets to concerts, not really what I would call fair market prices per say, though it is capitalism and I would say has a risk of losing out too. At least a guy could shoot the ammo up or even get his money back eventually, but it would be hard to use an unsold concert ticket. lol I see them advertised here pretty regular from the cheapest at 25 bucks a brick to as high as 80 bucks a brick.
I have seen them as high as 50 at a couple of the gun shows, but little if any sold at that price, so other than what they sell for in retail shops, where they do sell how does one decide what is fair market price.

[jcwit]

Maybe everything should be sold at auction letting the buyer establish the "Fair Market Value".

[Garyshome]

The price is high because 22lr are NOT for sale @ my house! I would have to have quite a lot more then I have before I would sell even 1 pc.!

[CBMC]

I would trade some for some unique powder right now since I can't find that anywhere.

[starmac]

Maybe everything should be sold at auction letting the buyer establish the "Fair Market Value".

That is one way, and I don't blame anyone for doing it. It doesn't work really well here because of shipping. I have seen ammo sell at estate type auctions. A few months after Obummer was first elected, and we had not seen the first 22 round for close to six months, I watched them stack 3 100 round packs of cci mini mags and they sold for 30 bucks a pop. There was enough takers at that price to take them all. Three weeks to a month they were back on the shelves in bulk at around 15 to 19 bucks a brick, but not cci.

[Artful]

In my area I'll buy if $35 or below a brick of 500 - I'll pass on the ones trying to sell to me for $50 or $60 bucks.

I have a friend who's wife was diagnosed Stage 4 Cancer and after Surgery and Chemo is still loosing ground -
I took him out for part of a day with my Ruger AC556K with conversion kit and we blasted thru a couple of 550 packs
- he felt better and that's why we did it.

for those that don't know what a Ruger AC556K is - found a video of someone elses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDAfkl84Ekk
Think - Full Auto Mini-14 with short barrel and folding stock converted from 223 to 22LR to be able to afford to shoot it these days...

I'll NOT be selling unless things get much worse in our world.

[Jammersix]

I wish I'd seen the shortage coming. I would have been able to set the price.

[Recluse]

If everything in this world were sold at auction, there would be a lot of unhappy people. Those with the financial means would have no problem spending whatever it takes to acquire their ammunition or firearms or antiques or guitars or watches or computers or anything else that people yearn to own.

Those on fixed incomes would get screwed every time because chances are slim--real slim--that they could keep up with the high-roller bidders and buyers.

:coffee:

[jcwit]

If everything in this world were sold at auction, there would be a lot of unhappy people. Those with the financial means would have no problem spending whatever it takes to acquire their ammunition or firearms or antiques or guitars or watches or computers or anything else that people yearn to own.

Those on fixed incomes would get screwed every time because chances are slim--real slim--that they could keep up with the high-roller bidders and buyers.

:coffee:


True, Very True. And did you detect the sarcasm in my post?

This is why the big box retailers do not use this method, thereby buying in huge quantities and selling at a marginal markup to the masses, whether they be on a fixed income, or be a high roller, and making a higher living standard of living here. It seems to work well.

But then I also surmise many here think the big box stores have no idea how to determine the "Fair Market Price", or is it in fact the "Street Price"?

[starmac]

I wish I'd seen the shortage coming. I would have been able to set the price.

What is the matter, are you blind. All you have to do to set the price is buy all of it from the scalpers and your in the business of setting your own price.

[OBIII]

Just another example of capitalism at work. Don't own a gun or even want to shoot? Camp out at Walmat and buy all you can when you can. Then flip it and double, triple, or quadruple your expense. Capitolism. Do I like this? No. Do I wish something could be done about it? Yes. Can something be done about it? Probably not. The vast majority of members on this board would not do anything remotely resembling this. Eventually, things will stabilize, the ammo will be available, but the poor schmucks who got in late on the game will get their clocks cleaned, when they cannot even recoup what they paid. What I have is not for sale, but if a kid needed some, I would see to it that they had some.

OB

[bobthenailer]

I usually dont sell any 22's or any reloading componets to anyone ever, but for christmas i gave my brother in law 5 boxes of auto match. luckley just before christmas i picked 3 boxes of AM at WM and only had to take 2 boxes from my stach

[Love Life]

I would trade 1 brick of 22lr for one 3 oz vial of Unicorn tears. Straight across.

[Roosters]

I would trade 1 brick of 22lr for one 3 oz vial of Unicorn tears. Straight across.

I have a pint jar 3/4 full. How many 22s you got we might strike up a deal ????

[Roosters]

By the way these were from a pink and white full blood with papers unicorn.......

[9.3X62AL]

Better get hip boots on, the thread depth is increasing apace. :)

[Jammersix]

Pink and white unicorn tears used to go for twenty cents a gallon.

[HNSB]

Pink and white unicorn tears used to go for twenty cents a gallon.

Well, that's just capitalism at work.
If you don't like it, you're a communist.

[smokeywolf]

If my little bit of 22LR hadn't been lost in that tragic boating accident...

I've never bought or reloaded any ammo with the idea of selling it. I've never sold any cartridges and never plan to. If I'm out hunting or shooting with friends I share whatever I have. If a Cast Boolit member was local to me and needed some 22LR and I knew I had more than enough for my own kids, sharing would be the right thing to do. Price? No money! Trade for something else.

Best scenario I can think of is a joint trip to the range. He donates the range fees and I donate a couple of bricks of 22s to him and his kids.

smokeywolf

[CBMC]

I will give brick of 22lr for a pound of unique. Anyone in the St. Louis, MO or DAYTON, OH area???

[lead-1]

I will give brick of 22lr for a pound of unique. Anyone in the St. Louis, MO or DAYTON, OH area???


I would be tempted to take you up on that deal if it weren't three hours from my door to Dayton.

[Lead Fred]

I have 2000 CCI Stingers & 500 Aquilla super mags all put away, not for sale at any price.
The other this & that 1000 is for my grand son to shoot up

[bobthenailer]

I will give brick of 22lr for a pound of unique. Anyone in the St. Louis, MO or DAYTON, OH area???
I would also trade if you were closer!

[jonp]

True, Very True. And did you detect the sarcasm in my post?

This is why the big box retailers do not use this method, thereby buying in huge quantities and selling at a marginal markup to the masses, whether they be on a fixed income, or be a high roller, and making a higher living standard of living here. It seems to work well.

But then I also surmise many here think the big box stores have no idea how to determine the "Fair Market Price", or is it in fact the "Street Price"?

That is not why big box stores sell at a low mark-up to the masses.

[jonp]

If my little bit of 22LR hadn't been lost in that tragic boating accident...

I've never bought or reloaded any ammo with the idea of selling it. I've never sold any cartridges and never plan to. If I'm out hunting or shooting with friends I share whatever I have. If a Cast Boolit member was local to me and needed some 22LR and I knew I had more than enough for my own kids, sharing would be the right thing to do. Price? No money! Trade for something else.

Best scenario I can think of is a joint trip to the range. He donates the range fees and I donate a couple of bricks of 22s to him and his kids.

smokeywolf

That would be a plan!

[jonp]

Well, that's just capitalism at work.
If you don't like it, you're a communist.

No, that would make you a Democrat

[jcwit]

That is not why big box stores sell at a low mark-up to the masses.

Neither do they attempt to gouge their customers, as the worthless ones in the secondary black market attempting to sell their products for the so called "new norm". Was using it as an example.

[429421Cowboy]

I am not looking to sell what I have right now, but if a close friend in the shooting game were to ask if I had any and they NEEDED it (totally out, want to plink gophers with the kids, etc...) I would gladly hand them one for $20. The bricks I have I paid $15 for, I figure they would be about 20 on the shelf today, and wouldn't want to screw over someone like that, even though people are paying triple that. If I like you well enough to sell my .22's, then I certainly don't want to take advantage of that person either. I have already given away one brick to a friend that has always helped if I needed it. I am in no big crunch, and only really shoot .22's at gophers anyways, so it is not a huge issue to me, at least for a few more months, on top of that we could make this gopher season fine with what we have.

The other side of the slippery slope being that if a brick got worth enough to be tempting ($100+) I would figure we have big problems and I will want to hang onto that ammo for dear life anyways.

[Love Life]

Sweet!!! We have unicorn tears, communism, and the dreaded black market in one thread!!!

One thread to rule them all....


MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Now all we need to do is discuss doe run.

[Roosters]

Doe Run is just the first thread that has started to unravel on a big nit sweater . The whole isn’t big yet but might be later. Just one more thing we will be dependent on from a foreign country. Recycling is fine till the demand goes up.

[jcwit]

Sweet!!! We have unicorn tears, communism, and the dreaded black market in one thread!!!

One thread to rule them all....


MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Now all we need to do is discuss doe run.

Happy now?

[dragon813gt]

Sweet!!! We have unicorn tears, communism, and the dreaded black market in one thread!!!

One thread to rule them all....


MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Now all we need to do is discuss doe run.

No thread is complete w/ out a Hitler reference. I hear he is controlling the ancient Dragons that are causing the shortage of 22.

[HNSB]

Feels like we need the last verse of the perfect country song:

Well I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain,
But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck,
She got runned over by a damned old train.

[Love Life]

Dear Person who rated this thread as a one star,

I rated it a 5 star so HAHA!!

Thank you,
Dick

[Blacksmith]

Neither do they attempt to gouge their customers, as the worthless ones in the secondary black market attempting to sell their products for the so called "new norm". Was using it as an example.

Interesting it looks like from the poll about 41% of the members of this forum are in the category of "the worthless ones in the secondary black market" assuming $60+ would make them gougers.

[Jammersix]

I'd be willing to sell 500 rounds of .22LR at the low price of $400.

[starmac]

Are you throwing in a 39A for that price.

[jlucke69]

My prices range from $0 to $50 per brick. I will give to friends in need and who will shoot them, and sell to strangers or those who will hoard them. I take my boys out and always welcome their friends to come and shoot as much as they like. I have sold some of my stock as the prices have come up. To me it is a commodity to be traded. I now have a few new guns as return on my investments.

[jcwit]

Interesting it looks like from the poll about 41% of the members of this forum are in the category of "the worthless ones in the secondary black market" assuming $60+ would make them gougers.

If in fact that is the case so be it. Does not change my opinion.

Just because nearly 100% of drivers speed at one time or another "myself included" does not make it right.

Remember the secondary black market is comprised mainly of those who camp out at big box retail outlets buying up most or all of available ammo to sell and supplement their income. IMO!

[DeanWinchester]

I've ranted about this before, but not in a few days so here goes.

Funny to me what a bunch of hypocritical pansies some gun owners are. We want to rally and war cry when someone encroaches on our freedoms but let the price go up on items that are in high demand and bring on the whining and ********. Nevermind the fact that th US is a free market capitalist society. Market demands price, not cries and lamentations of days gone by when they were half the cost.
.22's like anything else, are worth whatever people are willing to pay. If a man can buy them from one place and sell at another for a profit then good for him. No one is strong arming anyone to pay the exorbitant prices. People do that willingly. No one crys when a savvy business man buys stock in an unknown company only to sell it for millions when it becomes strong.

And another thing, to many who are crying they can't get ammo, well....we've only been harping about the SHTF for decades now. If you haven't put away things you'll need when times are meager, that's your problem. No one else's.
We weren't told the whole truth as children; Aesops fable of the grasshopper and the ant?? Well, the ant put away for hard times and the grasshopper did not. The rest of the story - the grasshopper starved to death and died...or possibly was eaten by the ants as a supplement to their stored food.

We don't wanna hear that because we've only got "ME" on our minds.


Okay, rant over.

[AK Caster]

Dean, I like your rant. It has also been my opinion the people who always bitch about "gouging" are the ones that were either to dumb or to cheap to stock up when the prices and supply were good.
Every adult shooter knows these shortages are part of the game. We all had the chance to buy as much as we wanted.

[DeanWinchester]

Well, that's just capitalism at work.
If you don't like it, you're a communist.

Exactly!!!


No, that would make you a Democrat

What's the difference.....none.

[imashooter2]

If we are at the range together, I will share, but I'm not interested in selling. That said, if I was offered ridiculous money I might change my mind.

[Love Life]

Happy now?

I am. Dragon813gt even added Hitler to the pot. This has to be the most comprehensive thread in history.

Did ya'll hear about Marlin closing down as well?

[DeanWinchester]

Did ya'll hear about Marlin closing down as well?

No, but I heard the Feds are buying all the .22 cuz they're in cahoots with the UN to disarm us all.

Did you know gas checks keep the boolit bases from melting in the barrel?

[dragon813gt]

Did you know gas checks keep the boolit bases from melting in the barrel?

So that's why you have to use them w/ those really hot rifle powders. It all makes sense now.

[GregP42]

Not for sale, but I donated 500 rounds to the youth group at our club so they had ammo. And if they need more I will dig in again to the small reserve I have.

[Blacksmith]

You don't need gas checks when it is real cold because the melted lead will reharden before it gets to the target.:kidding:

[starmac]

A basically new 10/22 with 2 25 round mags, a factory mag and a 500 round brick was advertised for 250 bucks. I started to call the guy and buy it all, then just throw the ruger away. lol

[Jammersix]

What amuses me is all you guys who denigrate the "gougers" while saying that your .22 LR is not for sale.

[jcwit]

What amuses me is all you guys who denigrate the "gougers" while saying that your .22 LR is not for sale.

Why should I sell? I purchased my 22's long before this madness started just because they were on sale at the time with the intent I might use them in the future, well the future is now.

Furthermore I long ago gave up my retail license and no longer wish to collect sales tax or make a profit I would need to report. Let those who settle my estate handle all that paper work. And in the meantime I have enough to enjoy myself.

[grampa243]

i would vote for (not for sale)

[dragon813gt]

What amuses me is all you guys who denigrate the "gougers" while saying that your .22 LR is not for sale.

I don't understand the comparison you're making. Just because someone is against the "gougers" doesn't mean they have to offer their stock for sale. In the same way as I don't have to offer my stock for sale even though I don't see them as gougers. And what would offering any up for sale do anyway?

[mac60]

I haven't seen so much as a 50 rd. box of .22 rimfire ammo on sale ANYWHERE locally for many months. The gougers get it all. It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay what I hear some asking for it. Where I hunt here in Alabama, you can only use .22 rimfire ammo or shotguns with 2 shot or smaller to hunt small game. I do hunt squirrels, so I'm keeping what little I have (about 2,000 rds.) to hunt with. Given the amount of ammo I use to verify zero and hunt with, that should be a lifetime supply. Other than .22 rimfire and milsurp ammo, I haven't bought a round of factory ammo since 1984. I do all my recreational shooting and deer/hog hunting with reloaded ammo.

[AK Caster]

So, if a guy bought a brick for $10 and is selling them for $60 he is a gouger?

What about the guy who bought silver at $5 an ounce and now wants to sell it at $19. Is he a gouger?
How about the guy who bought a house for $150K and now has it on the market for $185? Is he a gouger?

I visit a lot of forums and there are constant new posts about people who just managed to buy something for less than market value and everyone tells him he did good. See constant postings about buying a weapon for a really low price then selling it high. All well and good in my book.

So why is it the people who try to make money off of something they either just bought or had sitting on the shelf for years now such a bad thing?

[jmort]

I agree with the idea that the .22 LR weenies should charge whatever they want, but comparing a commodity like silver misses the mark. .22 ammo is not traded as a commodity at a market price. The .22 LR weenies have created an inflated market based on buying up all available product to the exclusion of others and selling it at highly inflated prices that are not related to the actual price at the market, i.e. The retail price paid at the market. We should expect increased production and the elimination of the .22 LR weenies. I have an old stash that will tide me over the "rise of the weenies" but the are new shooters and children who bear the brunt of the weenies. I'm good with my stash so do what you will weenies.

[AK Caster]

BTY, If you need ammo visit Grices Gun Shop in PA, largest shop in the state. I drive up about twice a month and for the last three months they had a fair selection of .22 ammo on the shelf at reasonable prices. Out of the last 6 times I visited they had ammo on at least three of my visits. Didn't buy any as I have more than enough but I also didn't see people standing in line trying to buy it either.

[dragon813gt]

The .22 LR weenies have created an inflated market based on buying up all available product to the exclusion of others and selling it at highly inflated prices that are not related to the actual price at the market
You mean like the diamond market where the supply is controlled so the prices stay high. There are people that have bought enough of a traded commodity to control its price(somewhat) as well. The comparison to silver and homes is spot on. The name of the game is buy low and sell high. Especially in the real estate market. No one buys a house thinking it will depreciate. And why would you w/ the cost of the investment.

I'm also tired of the "for the kids" argument. It's the same tactic they use when it comes to gun control. Yes, it sucks that a father can't go to Walmart and buy a brick of 22 so he can take his children shooting. But at this point it's an inconvenience. It hasn't gone on long enough to really worry me yet. And anyone that goes out and purchases a new firearm that they can't buy ammo for is a fool. Buy a firearm that you can buy ammo for and the problem is solved for now.

[ole 5 hole group]

There is probably more to all this than meets the eye. Yesterday, Fleet Farm in Brainerd, MN got in several pallets of 22lr ammo - most were Remington buckets containing 1,400 rounds - price around $49.00 + tax, the value packs of 525 were like $20.40 + tax. Stingers and Thunderbolts etc. also came in.

Supplies of 22lr come in on a very regular basis there but fly off the shelves, even with a per day limit, which makes it hard to believe, for me anyway, that the people purchasing the ammo are doing so with the intend of shooting that ammo as opposed to selling it at a profit.

I've got 15K rounds of 22lr on the shelf and that will last my grandkids 2 years, maybe 3 if I have them load & shoot just 3 rounds at a time as opposed to 5 rounds - as they are pretty quick on the trigger but manage to hit what they aim/point at, so I can't really complain much about the rate of fire. Went to a bolt action last summer instead of allowing them use of the 10/22 but the rate of fire stayed about the same. Might have to get a single shot and break the extractor to slow the kids down a little.

I doubt we'll ever see value packs at $12.00 or less again - probably not $16.00 either, as it seems people will pay whatever. It's going to be cheaper loading and shooting 38 special before too long and then the 22's will be put away until needed for "pest" control.

[jcwit]

So, if a guy bought a brick for $10 and is selling them for $60 he is a gouger?

What about the guy who bought silver at $5 an ounce and now wants to sell it at $19. Is he a gouger?
How about the guy who bought a house for $150K and now has it on the market for $185? Is he a gouger?

I visit a lot of forums and there are constant new posts about people who just managed to buy something for less than market value and everyone tells him he did good. See constant postings about buying a weapon for a really low price then selling it high. All well and good in my book.

So why is it the people who try to make money off of something they either just bought or had sitting on the shelf for years now such a bad thing?

When these so called retailers go out and apply for a retail license, and operate a bona fide retail business and claim their profits etc, etc, then it would be completely different.

But to make an ongoing underground business of this mess, that again is a different game.

[w5pv]

I will not sell or buy until the price comes down to where it should be.I have nothing but a fixed income to live on.The price should be some where around $10 to $12 a brick,I cannot bring my self to gouge some one for the few bucks I could make if I did sell,the sport is for everyone to enjoy abd not just a few.Thank you

[Love Life]

I sit here wondering....

If everybody hates the evil gouger guys who wait in line to buy up all the ammo (or is it ancient dragons?), then why don't the non-evil, non-gouger guys stand in line to buy up all the ammo and then resell it at the store price? Ya'll would be like Robin Hood. Ya'll would be heros defeating the nefarious evil gouger guys who prey on unsuspecting customers.

Oh, wait....that would require people to expend their personal time without adding to their own stock.....

[dragon813gt]

I will not sell or buy until the price comes down to where it should be.I have nothing but a fixed income to live on.The price should be some where around $10 to $12 a brick,I cannot bring my self to gouge some one for the few bucks I could make if I did sell,the sport is for everyone to enjoy abd not just a few.Thank you

You will never see that price again. The average price by me over the past five years has been $20. You will never shoot again if you are waiting for $13 bricks. Retailers haven't raised their prices. So when stock is available you will find it at the normal $20 price.

[starmac]

Never say never, the only reason it was 12 bucks before was it sat on the shelf, which I can see happening again someday. I don't see it returning to previous prices because of the value of the dollar, which I don't see getting better at anytime in the near future.

[dragon813gt]

I will say never because of the value of the dollar and commodity prices. And not just in relation to the dollar. Even if the dollar was worth the same the cost of the raw materials have gone up. Think it's bad now? Wait until October when companies have to decide what they're going to do about health care. I don't think it will be pretty.

[jcwit]

I sit here wondering....

If everybody hates the evil gouger guys who wait in line to buy up all the ammo (or is it ancient dragons?), then why don't the non-evil, non-gouger guys stand in line to buy up all the ammo and then resell it at the store price? Ya'll would be like Robin Hood. Ya'll would be heros defeating the nefarious evil gouger guys who prey on unsuspecting customers.

Oh, wait....that would require people to expend their personal time without adding to their own stock.....

LOL Well Love Life that sure is a different take on the problem I gotta admit.

As far as adding to their own stock, I haven't needed to since this madness started nor do I see any need to in the foreseeable future. Maybe, just maybe I might need to resupply my stock with match target ammo, but that is readily available at prices basically the same as 8 to 10 years ago. I know of no local suppliers selling it over the counter anyway.

[Love Life]

My idea is a different take. People have put forth a problem, I have put forth a solution, so now we'll see what happens.

$20 says we don't see any threads about how the heroic non gouger guys are standing in line to buy up the 22lr to sell at "normal" prices so that they can foil the nefarious plot of the evil gouger guys.

[starmac]

Good call Love Life, I haven't stood in line and won't be unless something drastic happens, but I have gone and checked many days to pick up ammo for guys that can't check themselves for different reasons. Eventually I get them some and I have never charged one more than the price paid. I didn't get to town this week, and apparently missed a shipment of federal primers (which we haven't seen forever) and I know people running low on some, all they had left was small pistol mags, Left them there as I'm not low, and no one has asked to watch for them.

[jcwit]

My idea is a different take. People have put forth a problem, I have put forth a solution, so now we'll see what happens.

$20 says we don't see any threads about how the heroic non gouger guys are standing in line to buy up the 22lr to sell at "normal" prices so that they can foil the nefarious plot of the evil gouger guys.

I'll place my bets with you Love Life, I do think what starmac does is commendable tho.

[btroj]

I sit here wondering....

If everybody hates the evil gouger guys who wait in line to buy up all the ammo (or is it ancient dragons?), then why don't the non-evil, non-gouger guys stand in line to buy up all the ammo and then resell it at the store price? Ya'll would be like Robin Hood. Ya'll would be heros defeating the nefarious evil gouger guys who prey on unsuspecting customers.

Oh, wait....that would require people to expend their personal time without adding to their own stock.....

Let's see......

I have a job

I have a life

I don't care too much about the 22 LR shortage, I have a bunch and don't shoot much, if any, these days

I don't personally know anyone who is having a shortage problem

I refuse to play games and battle morons who have nothing better to do than wait in line at shops to buy ammo

[starmac]

I wouldn't say commendable jcwit. I just happen to live within 5 miles from either place to get ammo or reloading supplies and have the time to go look during the day. Many folks live a hundred or more miles from the store, and since things last a matter of hours, it is very hard for them to pickup supplies on their trips to town, others just have work schedules that keep them from getting their in the few short hours that supplies are on the shelf. These are all regular working people and the prices are high enough as it is. When I ran a shop I worked on a lot of elderly peoples vehicles probono, even supplied the parts a lot of the time, what goes around usually comes around.

[Love Life]

I hook people up when I get the chance, but it is because I choose to. Altruism does not sit well with me.

[220]

In a way I find this thread a bit of a laugh. Shooters here in Aus are constantly complaining we are forced to pay to much for ammo and shooting gear.
22lr have gone up here in the past 12 months but our dollar has also dropped to its lowest level in over 3 years, dropping about 20% from it high. Going rate for cheap bulk ammo is around the $40 for 525 packs about $45 for a brick of cci std or similar.
While certain loads may be unavailable at times there hasn't been any shortage of 22lr, gunshops all have plenty on the shelves and I know one of the importers has 20mil or so in stock with more on the way. Maybe we should export some back to you.

[ravelode]

I had to pay a bill 6 months ago, so I parted with 4 400 round bricks of American Eagle for $35 each. Now I'm so short of .22 I am doing all of my plinking with my HP 995 and cast boolits. If this shortage keep up, I'll have to do my gopher shooting with that gun too.

[mold maker]

Unless they're driving a BRINKS truck, they aint carrying enough cash.

[rexherring]

Same price I paid for them, I hate scalping or as some scalpers would say "supply & demand". Just another excuse to rip someone off.

[Jammersix]

Selling something to a buyer at a price they agree to is, by definition, not ripping anyone off.

I'd make as much as I can make.

[starmac]

I have been extremely lucky. I have never been forced to buy ammo, I have gone without, but never forced to buy any ever. lol

[jcwit]

Selling something to a buyer at a price they agree to is, by definition, not ripping anyone off.

I'd make as much as I can make.

Sounds like an opinion to me.

Post a link for that definition!

[jcwit]

I have been extremely lucky. I have never been forced to buy ammo, I have gone without, but never forced to buy any ever. lol

Ever been the leader of a group "4- H, Scouts, etc." where the kids were in the Shooting sports?

Still not being "forced", but it sure helps if the youngsters have something other than a Daisy.

[jonp]

Sounds like an opinion to me.

Post a link for that definition!
That is called a willing transaction. Unless you are forced at gunpoint or threat of jail you are free to walk away. If you voluntarily pay a person for an item that he/she is selling then walk away complaining about being ripped off well, then, you are a dumb***.

[Black Powder Bill]

That is called a willing transaction. Unless you are forced at gunpoint or threat of jail you are free to walk away. If you voluntarily pay a person for an item that he/she is selling then walk away complaining about being ripped off well, then, you are a dumb***.

A person has wants and needs. The ammo shortage has created a very large void or "want" amongst the shooters.

I'm still seeing cartridges advertised for sale from the 60-70's & 80's at prices 10x's what they were selling for 10 years ago. I have flyers for new shotgun slugs and shot packed crazy loads no one would use unless forced to do so.

All magazines , publications are filled with play ammo and black ops sales pitches.

I just purchased a CZ American in 223. Didn't need it` I WANTED IT. Like with every toy I purchased I have no need for them. When I sell something I don't want it any longer. If a person choose to purchase it they do so at their own discursion. Very seldom do I hear I need this it always I WANTED this for a long time.

I have one customer, a Vet with a Phd who calls his purchases, "retail therapy" with out the couch.

[Black Powder Bill]

Sounds like an opinion to me.

Post a link for that definition!

The Myth of "Price-Gouging"
By Alex Epstein (Tampa Tribune, December 20, 2005; Calgary Herald, April 28, 2006)

The recent announcement of record profits by ExxonMobil and Chevron has revived widespread claims that these profits were extracted by "price gouging." Thus, the stage is set for Washington to pass a federal law banning "price gouging." Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, for his part, has promised that "if the facts warrant it, I will support a federal anti-price gouging law."

But there are no facts that could warrant such a law, because there is no such thing as "price gouging" by private businesses.

The term "price gouging" implies that gas stations have an ability to forcibly inflict harm on us--but they do not. Any price we pay for a gallon of gasoline--whether $1 or $3--we pay voluntarily, based on the value of the gasoline to us. If we think we are spending too much on gasoline, we are free to drive less, to buy more fuel-efficient cars, to use carpools or busses, or to travel by bicycle or on foot. Gas station owners cannot force us to buy gasoline; they can only offer us a trade, which we are free to accept or reject.

But, one might ask, without anti-"price gouging" laws won't owners of gasoline charge the absolute highest prices they can? Absolutely, and they have every moral right to do so--just as consumers of gasoline have every right to pay the lowest prices they can find. Gas station owners are not our servants. They are producers who spend money, exert effort, and assume risk to bring a product to market. They own the gasoline they sell, and like any property owner they should be free to set the terms of sale.

Since we pay the lowest price that we can find for gasoline (and never more than it is worth to us), and gas stations sell gasoline for the highest price they can get (and never less than it is worth to them), the price of gasoline is a reflection of mutually beneficial trade--the essence of proper interaction under capitalism. For a gas station owner to charge what the market will bear is no more "gouging" than it is for a computer programmer--or a cashier--to negotiate for the highest salary he can get.

Since the prevailing price of gasoline is the result of trade, it reflects not the arbitrary "greed" of gas station owners, but the facts of the market: the producers' costs, competition, and what customers are willing to pay. The reason that gasoline prices are higher after a natural disaster, for instance, is that the fact of relatively scarce supply leads various purchasers of oil and gasoline to compete to buy it, and bid up its price. Those who buy it are those who value it most, to the extent they value it most--like highly efficient factories overseas, or Americans providing for their most crucial transportation priorities.

Anti-"price gouging" laws prevent producers and their customers from trading at mutually beneficial prices--sacrificing their interests to the interests of those who wish to avoid the "hardship" of paying prices higher than they are used to. By what right can the government force producers to set artificially low prices and prevent consumers from bidding up the price to get the gasoline they are willing to pay for? By what right can the government demand that factory owners be deprived of the oil they are able to pay for--and their customers of the cheap products they happily purchase at Wal-Mart?

Anti-"price-gouging" laws are a particularly vicious form of price controls. Like all price controls, they deprive businesses of earned profit, promote shortages, and discourage future production. But they also forbid the indefinable: "unconscionable" prices, the meaning of which cannot be known until after the ruling of some bureaucrat. This added uncertainty discourages producers from being in business, period--especially in times of emergency, when "gouging" claims are most rampant. If a federal "price gouging" law is passed, will gas station owners do everything possible after the next natural disaster to remain open for business--will private contractors from other states rush to bring generators, food, and debris-clearing equipment? Or will they not bother for fear that the prices they set will be declared "unconscionable"?

The real threat to individual rights and justice is not the so-called price gouging of free individuals, but the price-control gouging of a coercive government. We must fight this threat by asserting, unequivocally, that gas station owners have a right to charge whatever prices they choose.

Alex Epstein was a writer and a fellow on staff at ARI between 2004 and 2011.

[jmort]

Let's see......

I have a job

I have a life

I don't care too much about the 22 LR shortage, I have a bunch and don't shoot much, if any, these days

I don't personally know anyone who is having a shortage problem

I refuse to play games and battle morons who have nothing better to do than wait in line at shops to buy ammo

This sums up my feelings about the .22 LR weenies

[jcwit]

The Myth of "Price-Gouging"
By Alex Epstein (Tampa Tribune, December 20, 2005; Calgary Herald, April 28, 2006)

The recent announcement of record profits by ExxonMobil and Chevron has revived widespread claims that these profits were extracted by "price gouging." Thus, the stage is set for Washington to pass a federal law banning "price gouging." Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, for his part, has promised that "if the facts warrant it, I will support a federal anti-price gouging law."

But there are no facts that could warrant such a law, because there is no such thing as "price gouging" by private businesses.

The term "price gouging" implies that gas stations have an ability to forcibly inflict harm on us--but they do not. Any price we pay for a gallon of gasoline--whether $1 or $3--we pay voluntarily, based on the value of the gasoline to us. If we think we are spending too much on gasoline, we are free to drive less, to buy more fuel-efficient cars, to use carpools or busses, or to travel by bicycle or on foot. Gas station owners cannot force us to buy gasoline; they can only offer us a trade, which we are free to accept or reject.

But, one might ask, without anti-"price gouging" laws won't owners of gasoline charge the absolute highest prices they can? Absolutely, and they have every moral right to do so--just as consumers of gasoline have every right to pay the lowest prices they can find. Gas station owners are not our servants. They are producers who spend money, exert effort, and assume risk to bring a product to market. They own the gasoline they sell, and like any property owner they should be free to set the terms of sale.

Since we pay the lowest price that we can find for gasoline (and never more than it is worth to us), and gas stations sell gasoline for the highest price they can get (and never less than it is worth to them), the price of gasoline is a reflection of mutually beneficial trade--the essence of proper interaction under capitalism. For a gas station owner to charge what the market will bear is no more "gouging" than it is for a computer programmer--or a cashier--to negotiate for the highest salary he can get.

Since the prevailing price of gasoline is the result of trade, it reflects not the arbitrary "greed" of gas station owners, but the facts of the market: the producers' costs, competition, and what customers are willing to pay. The reason that gasoline prices are higher after a natural disaster, for instance, is that the fact of relatively scarce supply leads various purchasers of oil and gasoline to compete to buy it, and bid up its price. Those who buy it are those who value it most, to the extent they value it most--like highly efficient factories overseas, or Americans providing for their most crucial transportation priorities.

Anti-"price gouging" laws prevent producers and their customers from trading at mutually beneficial prices--sacrificing their interests to the interests of those who wish to avoid the "hardship" of paying prices higher than they are used to. By what right can the government force producers to set artificially low prices and prevent consumers from bidding up the price to get the gasoline they are willing to pay for? By what right can the government demand that factory owners be deprived of the oil they are able to pay for--and their customers of the cheap products they happily purchase at Wal-Mart?

Anti-"price-gouging" laws are a particularly vicious form of price controls. Like all price controls, they deprive businesses of earned profit, promote shortages, and discourage future production. But they also forbid the indefinable: "unconscionable" prices, the meaning of which cannot be known until after the ruling of some bureaucrat. This added uncertainty discourages producers from being in business, period--especially in times of emergency, when "gouging" claims are most rampant. If a federal "price gouging" law is passed, will gas station owners do everything possible after the next natural disaster to remain open for business--will private contractors from other states rush to bring generators, food, and debris-clearing equipment? Or will they not bother for fear that the prices they set will be declared "unconscionable"?

The real threat to individual rights and justice is not the so-called price gouging of free individuals, but the price-control gouging of a coercive government. We must fight this threat by asserting, unequivocally, that gas station owners have a right to charge whatever prices they choose.

Alex Epstein was a writer and a fellow on staff at ARI between 2004 and 2011.

Written by somebody and then published in a Florida newspaper and then a Canadian newspaper, about what our government wished to do 9 to 8 years ago, regarding the pricing of gas for vehicles. Even then it is just the writers opinion and nothing more.

[casterofboolits]

I share my small stash with my brothers and grand kids. Nothing for sale at any price.

[Big Z]

I'd have a hard time selling something I want to use and can't hardly replace. That said, my arm might be twisted for $50 :???: ...maybe

[Jammersix]

One of the things that is amusing me is that the same people who are unhappy with the "gougers" are saying they wouldn't sell their .22 ammo-- that it's priceless.

That implies that the gougers are selling it at quite a bargain, and that it's a good deal.

I have 500 rounds I'll let go for $400.

Mere money, quite a bit lower than priceless.

[jcwit]

One of the things that is amusing me is that the same people who are unhappy with the "gougers" are saying they wouldn't sell their .22 ammo-- that it's priceless.

That implies that the gougers are selling it at quite a bargain, and that it's a good deal.

I am unhappy with the gougers, not for myself but for those who wish to buy at store pricing and not for prices at street prices, those who have no retail license and likely pay no sales tax or report their profits on said sales.

I also said if I was to sell my .22's which I have in the 10's of thousands, over 60 bricks, of standard plinking ammo, I would only sell at auction with the buyers setting the pricing. Plus this would be done by a bona fide auction house or auctioneer.

All of my .22 ammo was acquired long before this madness started.

[starmac]

I am unhappy with the gougers, not for myself but for those who wish to buy at store pricing and not for prices at street prices, those who have no retail license and likely pay no sales tax or report their profits on said sales.

I also said if I was to sell my .22's which I have in the 10's of thousands, over 60 bricks, of standard plinking ammo, I would only sell at auction with the buyers setting the pricing. Plus this would be done by a bona fide auction house or auctioneer.

All of my .22 ammo was acquired long before this madness started.

I don't have all that much, but if I did and decided I needed the money I would do just that. As it is I have enough to last my grandson several years of rabbit hunting when he gets old enough. Just a few weeks if he went out and wasted it though. Other than that I would consider donating it to some of those youth groups you have been mentioning having to pay high prices.

[Jammersix]

I see, it's all about the good of humanity and for the children?

Just out of curiosity, jcwit, what taxes do you think they owe?

[opos]

Not for sale...free to good friends and family if I'm shooting with them but to sell it...it just ends in the hands of resellers and I got no intention of feeding that frenzy. I just picked about 2000 rounds total of 38 special, 357 and 9mm .... all factory....old but think it's just fine (posted on this thread asking for opinions on shoot or break down or Mexican match)...it was from an estate...cheaper than 22 is right now (paid under a dime a round) and much rather shoot that if it's all ok..Family and friends again get their pick of it and gougers get zip.

[jcwit]

Other than that I would consider donating it to some of those youth groups you have been mentioning having to pay high prices.

Our youth group won the lottery that CCI had and is now set for at least the next 2 years of shooting. Purchased at factory pricing, we are one of 30 nation wide. BTW we have the largest 4-H shooting program in our state. Our county is sponsoring 800 junior shooters this coming spring/summer.

[jcwit]

I see, it's all about the good of humanity and for the children?

Just out of curiosity, jcwit, what taxes do you think they owe?

Jammer, please point out where I pointed out children in that post?

My quote from my post
I am unhappy with the gougers, not for myself but for those who wish to buy at store pricing and not for prices at street prices, those who have no retail license and likely pay no sales tax or report their profits on said sales.


If they make a practice of selling at retail, a retail license is required in my state and in the surrounding states, as is income taxes on the profits. At least that's the way it was when my wife & I had our retail business, no matter where we acquired our merchandise. More than a little elementary.

To sell otherwise makes it an underground economy.




Jammer, you do seem good at only reading the meanings that fits what you wish.

[Jammersix]

I don't see a requirement in Washington state for any license or tax on a private resale of .22 ammunition.

What I do see is a massive inconsistency in your posts.

[jcwit]

I don't see a requirement in Washington state for any license or tax on a private resale of .22 ammunition.

What I do see is a massive inconsistency in your posts.

Not much of the U.S. population lives in the state of Washington. But I'm not discussing the private sale of ammo or anything else, I talking about the continuing sale of ammo by those who buy up available ammo at retail outlets to sell at inflated retail AKA street prices. Thereby making it a business and needing a license and also federal license for operating a business.


I realize that's hard for you to comprehend but then maybe you are in the group working the underground economy? Is that why you seem the need to justify your means?

Time for me to go, its past midnight here in the Midwest and time for an old man to hit the sack.

Nity-nite

[jcwit]

What I do see is a massive inconsistency in your posts.

Reason being, its a combination of more than just one thing, simple right?

[Jammersix]

How does that make it a business?

[HNSB]

Even then it is just the writers opinion and nothing more.

It's pretty much Econ 101.
If the author is wrong, so is virtually every economics professor in the world.

The article explains equilibrium in a free market, and states that government interference with equilibrium price has unintended consequences. That can be seen in economic theory and has been proven by history.

[jcwit]

It's pretty much Econ 101.
If the author is wrong, so is virtually every economics professor in the world.



And that is entirely possible, at one time the educated thought the world was flat too.

[jcwit]

How does that make it a business?

How does what make what a business?

If you mean my comment


Not much of the U.S. population lives in the state of Washington. But I'm not discussing the private sale of ammo or anything else, I talking about the continuing sale of ammo by those who buy up available ammo at retail outlets to sell at inflated retail AKA street prices. Thereby making it a business and needing a license and also federal license for operating a business.


The fact its a continuing enterprise, that in itself qualifies it as a business, one time garage sale, no its not a business.

Jammer, if you are unable to decide what actually constitutes a bona fide retail business and/or someone who is attempting to fly under the radar and conducting a street business, and bypass all legal requirements there is little I or anyone can do to educate you on this.

One more time are you trying to justify this because you are participating in this form of endeavor?
Just asking.

[HNSB]

Actually, part of the problem is that retailers are not selling at market prices.
If the Wal-Marts put the price at $80/500 for awhile this would go away.
Price would come back down.

[lka]

I wouldn't sell them, luckily I have a 50cal can full to the top I wouldn't mind geting some more because my son is now shooting the 10-22 and I have a couple kids from boy scouts that I've been taking. I hate 22s because you can't make them it bugs me lol. I was at bass pro yesterday and they were sold out, I was looking at bullets for reloading and someone starched a couple 100 bricks behind the boxes so I grabbed them lol 8.00ish per 100 I'll stash those and go through the old ones in the ammo can first, but for now-on I'll buy a brick when at the gun shop or Walmart when they come back.

[lka]

Actually, part of the problem is that retailers are not selling at market prices.
If the Wal-Marts put the price at $80/500 for awhile this would go away.
Price would come back down.

Big 5 is doing the same ****, 48.00 per 1000 win primers (yes big 5 sells them now) they had a scout rifle and I've been wanting to get one, I asked about it and he said "these are hard to get" and wanted 1500.00 + commie taxes/fees so I passed, I've seen them for 800isn at small gun shops. I was at a shop yesterday, they had a keg of green dot for 280.00 I had to pass that up as well I'm purdy damn sure I got my last keg for around 120.00

[jcwit]

Actually, part of the problem is that retailers are not selling at market prices.
If the Wal-Marts put the price at $80/500 for awhile this would go away.
Price would come back down.

Wal-Mart sells little at so called "market", this is what makes them so successful, and the largest retailer and company the world has ever seen.


Americans spend $36,000,000 at Wal-Mart Every hour of every day.
Wal-Mart will sell more from January 1 to St. Patrick's Day (March 17th) than Target sells all year.
Wal-Mart is bigger than Home Depot + Kroger + Target +Sears + Costco + K-Mart combined.

[Black Powder Bill]

Written by somebody and then published in a Florida newspaper and then a Canadian newspaper, about what our government wished to do 9 to 8 years ago, regarding the pricing of gas for vehicles. Even then it is just the writers opinion and nothing more.

You don't understand admit it! What difference does it make where or who wrote the article or if the article is a week old or 100 years old . The process is still the same.
It's not an opinion loosely thrown on paper. It's a way business should be allowed to run. With minimal government intervention.
Since your comment lacks any real meaningful dialogue. I strongly suggest you sit silent at your key board and let those of us who understand business discuss the important topics.

So I'll close with this line. WHO'S JOHN GALT?

[Black Powder Bill]

I have 5 boxes of Rem 525 who want's em? $40.00 per box. Drop over I'll be home most of the day.

[Love Life]

Actually, part of the problem is that retailers are not selling at market prices.
If the Wal-Marts put the price at $80/500 for awhile this would go away.
Price would come back down.

For the love of all that is holy...THIS^^^^!!!!!!!

[Love Life]

WHO'S JOHN GALT?

Just some 'rayciss' guy who wants everybody to earn their own way in the world.

[dragon813gt]

I also said if I was to sell my .22's which I have in the 10's of thousands, over 60 bricks, of standard plinking ammo, I would only sell at auction with the buyers setting the pricing.

Wow, you are dense. You do realize that the buyers set the price for every purchase, right? If you think the price is to high then you don't buy. Just because a seller sets the price does not mean the buyer has to accept it.

And get off your moral hig horse. If you really cared you would sell your ammo at the price you paid for it. You would not sell it at auction at this time so you could make a lot of money. Would you accept less then whay you paid initially? I'm betting you wouldn't even if you post saying that you would.

The fact that you apparently don't understand economics but ran a retail store baffles me to no end. If you don't like the price then don't buy. No one is gouging. They are just asking more than you're willing to pay. Why is this so hard to understand? I suggest you go put on your tin foil hat and ponder more theories about how all the ammo is being bought up by all the "weenies".

[jcwit]

Wow, you are dense. You do realize that the buyers set the price for every purchase, right?

Not according to Love Life.

[Love Life]

Don't make up lies jcwit. I did say that the buyer sets the price.

[jcwit]

If you think the price is to high then you don't buy. Just because a seller sets the price does not mean the buyer has to accept it.

I don't.

[jcwit]

Don't make up lies jcwit. I did say that the buyer sets the price.

No, the buyer accepts the price, and makes the choice to buy or not.

Hop over to the thread about propane pricing and check out who's setting the pricing.[smilie=1:

[Love Life]

Seriously, did you take like 30 percocets this morning. You stated that "not according to love life" that I do not believe the buyer sets the price.

I stated that you are wrong and not make stuff up because I do IN FACT believe the buyer sets the price.

Then you reply with a quote saying exactly as I have been saying.

Did my reading and comprehension just nosedive by about 98% or is jcwit not making sense?

[jcwit]

Seriously, did you take like 30 percocets this morning. You stated that "not according to love life" that I do not believe the buyer sets the price.

I stated that you are wrong and not make stuff up because I do IN FACT believe the buyer sets the price.

Then you reply with a quote saying exactly as I have been saying.

Did my reading and comprehension just nosedive by about 98% or is jcwit not making sense?

No I just got turned around with the buyer, seller, gouger, mass marketer, etc., etc.

Whats Percocet, have to google that.

Nope, didn't take that, used to tho under a different name, a few months ago. Now take a non narcotic pain med.