Help with Ben's Red via Pan Lubing

[45coltnut]

Hi everyone. So, this was my first attempt at lubing as I just did my first batch of cast boolits. I'm hooked.....but I must not be doing something right in the lubing side of it.

I mixed up my recipe using the 55% beeswax, 25% Lucas grease, 10% johnson's paste wax, 5% dexron fluid, 5% stp oil treatment. I melted these together using a double boiler. I think I may not have had the lube HOT enough as when I poured it into my baking pan off boolits, it dried super quick while not even layering the complete bottom of the pan. Thus, I had to keep building it up around the boolits with the turkey baster.

I let it all setup in basement overnight. Then, this morning I went down expecting to pop the block of lube with boolits from the pan. Didn't happen at all. So, I started to pull the boolits from the lube with pliers. Allot......came out with missing lube in the groove. And, others pulled chunks with it. Is this normal?

I do want to find a silicone tray for pouring the lube into. My thoughts are that I can push the bullets from the bottom with a pencil. This is how I saw someone on youtube doing it. But, it appears their lube hardended up much more than Ben's red.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Here's some pics.

9396793968939699397093971

[myg30]

Sir, Im not a pan luber but I do remember reading that most use a " cookie cutter" when removing the boolits from the pan. Im not good at it but if you search here for cookie cutter something to that affect. I piece of tubing or empty shell casing the same diameter as the boolit should do it.
I made some BR lube and poured onto a wax paper covered pan. Didn't melt or stick. When cool it peeled off the lube no problem. Goodwill store might find a cheep silicone tray.
After you remove the boolits, don't you fill the holes with more boolits and reheat the tray again till liquid to re start the process ? Will that way warm the boolits and the lube at the same time ? Again, I don't use this process but had looked it over before I purchased a lyman 450 and bunches of dies.

I'll post onto the pan lube W/bens red thread but just fyi, Ive not had time to TL with bens red yet but hope to soon. May work, may not. Keep this one pan lube thread.
That's the best part of this forum, Some like us just keep trying to Re spoke a good wheel while driving on a flat tire.

Good luck, be safe, Mike

[fryboy]

when i made my ben's red i did as always, i test a small batch for pan lubing qualities , one of the first things i noted was the stuff is stikki as ummm ...( well you get the idea ) , mostly i prefer the "whack it crack it" method when i pan lube , of note this will work with most lubes but ..( yeah i had to throw that in there ) alot depends upon temp of the cake , but first let's address your other problem ... and recall some you-tube videos are best taken with a grain of salt

the hardening as you poured is too common because both the pan and boolits are at a cooler temp than the lube , most folks either warm their boolits up or insert the whole pan into the oven and obtain a uniform temp throughout , this also would help with uniform "sticking" ,also of note for those who use either method the general idea is to leave a cake with empty holes ready to seat new boolits in and heat up and repeat , this in my humble opinion is part of the beauty of pan lubing done well

perhaps the best example i have seen is at this link

http://goatlips.hrillc.com/goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

now about removing the cake from the pan .... a quick warning however about silicone pans ...please place it on yet another larger more solid pan to move it or you'll merely make a mess . you'll have to find the correct temp to remove both the cake from the pan and the boolits from the cake , best way i know is to place it in the fridge ( or freezer ) and then test it as it comes back towards room temp , somewhere in there you'll find the right range
kake cutters negate this somewhat and are easily enough fashioned ( i myself still prefer the "whack it crack it" method as the boolits come out way cleaner - properly done of course - which may take some practice to learn but is worthy ) and there are several example threads scattered around here but it has always been my experience that with softer lubes that seem more in vogue tends to be messier , read the above link and get back with us please if needed

[45coltnut]

Thanks guys!

For whatever reason I wasn't at all thinking about being able to put the boolits back in the pan and reheat it all. This makes perfect sense and hopefully allot easier. I'm going to re-assemble my boolits in the pan and heat the pan lube up in the oven. Then I'll place in the freezer and give it another go.

Thanks for the link also. Great sight!

[375RUGER]

I would add more beeswax for pan lubing and it will still be fairly soft. Id go to about 60%. I've never added more than extra 10% to the original recipe and it worked well pan lubing. It will stick better when the boolits and lube are warmed together. the Ben's Red will work well with a cake cutter, I don't know about the push through method.

[Echd]

+1 on the beeswax. I don't pan lube often but it needs to dry pretty firmly.

[Ben]

45coltnut :

So, I started to pull the boolits from the lube with pliers.


No need for pliers ! !

Have you looked at this :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?119056-So-you-can-t-afford-one

[45coltnut]

Thanks everyone.

I just hot finished re heating the boolits and lube on 200 F for about 20 minutes. Then I let it all air cool for 30 minutes and then I place it in the freezer for almost one hour.

The lube still wouldn't release from the pan. But that's ok. I was able to pull the boolits easily with pliers. It worked good this time. Here's the finished product. Keep on mind the boolits were already kinda nasty from the first attempt.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/pusa3u7a.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/ypujuhem.jpg

[JWFilips]

I doubt very much you will adapt the "Real" Ben's Red into a wack & crack lube. If you start messing with the formula much you may just miss the benefits of a soft & sticky lube! I do all pan lubing with Ben's original formula and use the "kake cutter" method to get the boolits out after it sits for a few hours. Works like a charm however the is more "work" One word of note don't think heating it more will make it flow better what you will get is "big stink"
I melt a pan of the lube at "less the low temp setting" on my 1100 watt hotplate ( never should you see smoke) you will need a stir stick to get the lube level at this temperature; place the boolits in let the whole pan with lube and boolits just stay in the warming mode for about 5 to 8 minutes shut the heat off & let it cool down slowly for a few hours then kake cut the boolits out then fill the holes with new boolits and reheat on "lower then low" setting again until the lube sticks around the boolits .....give it about 5 min more and shut it down & cool & repeat If you are doing it right you will not get stink That only happens when the lube over heats and that can happen pretty darn fast

[45coltnut]

Ben,

I'll take a look at the link shortly. Thank you!

So, I just finished loading a few to go test. I'm like a giddy little school girl :)

I'm going to test my cast against the true shot 310 with gas check. I didn't has check the first test batch just to see how it does.

The big dog is getting ready to eat.
The round on the right is the 310 true shot. The one on left is my cast and lubed.
My test loads are:

True shot 310 gas checked
2400 @ 13.2 grains

My cast

H110 @ 18 grains seated to 1.610"
2400 @ 15 grains seated to 1.610"

I wanted to seat them out more, but my chambers wouldn't allow it without reaming. The cylinder is long enough, but not the chambers.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/eda8avy3.jpg

[Ben]

I doubt very much you will adapt the "Real" Ben's Red into a wack & crack lube. If you start messing with the formula much you may just miss the benefits of a soft & sticky lube! I do all pan lubing with Ben's original formula and use the "kake cutter" method to get the boolits out after it sits for a few hours. Works like a charm however the is more "work" One word of note don't think heating it more will make it flow better what you will get is "big stink"
I melt a pan of the lube at "less the low temp setting" on my 1100 watt hotplate ( never should you see smoke) you will need a stir stick to get the lube level at this temperature; place the boolits in let the whole pan with lube and boolits just stay in the warming mode for about 5 to 8 minutes shut the heat off & let it cool down slowly for a few hours then kake cut the boolits out then fill the holes with new boolits and reheat on "lower then low" setting again until the lube sticks around the boolits .....give it about 5 min more and shut it down & cool & repeat If you are doing it right you will not get stink That only happens when the lube over heats and that can happen pretty darn fast


Well Spoken ! !

Ben

[nekshot]

I do this all the time but I put them in the freezer for a while. They push thru and look like they went thru a luber sizer.

[45coltnut]

Ok everyone. It's official, I just fired my first cast and lubed boolits. I'm a virgin no more :)

I'm really tickled too. The first load with 2400 at 15 grains had very little recoil and groups fantastically.

4 shot - 1" group at 25 yards off hand
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/ure4a2yp.jpg

I can't as much for the H110 load. I'll probably be sticking with the 2400. Now, if only I can find more powder.

[marvelshooter]

I am not sure if this a normal method or not but here is how I lube with Ben's Red. I dip each boolit into melted Ben's Red base first up to the crimp groove and then set them on wax paper. After the lube hardens and I chill them I use a fired case and a nail to strip off the excess lube.

[JWFilips]

I am not sure if this a normal method or not but here is how I lube with Ben's Red. I dip each boolit into melted Ben's Red base first up to the crimp groove and then set them on wax paper. After the lube hardens and I chill them I use a fired case and a nail to strip off the excess lube.

Clever! I know I let my pan sit for a day and kake cut them but they weren't as nice as just a few hours old ( I thought that may be a temperature thing) apparently you got it to work....I will have to give that a try.

One observation I have to mention as it pertains to the method I use . Once the boolits are cut out, if you let them sit for a week in the open air they seem to crust over ..so to speak...which makes handling somewhat easier. I find this works really well for pan lubing the tumble lube design boolits!

[45coltnut]

I want to thank everyone for their help! This is a fantastic site with a great group of people.

I'm hoping this next weekend is nice so I can cast up some more now that I know my gun likes these boolits. And, I'm looking forward to perfecting this pan lubing.

Thanks again from one happy man.

[Ben]

I wish you'd consider making you a " Kake Cutter " out of a 444 Marlin fired case like you see in the link I provided you and stop using pliers to try and remove your bullets from the solidified lube.

I think you'd be far more pleased with the end results.

Ben

[45coltnut]

Ben, I'more than willing to try this method and I will do so on the next round. First I'll have to come up with the brass that fits though :)

Thanks again for the help and the recipe.!

[Ben]

If I had a few fired .444 Marlin cases I'd send them to you.

Catch is, I don't have a single one.
Maybe someone would be willing to send you a few.

Ben

[Ben]

45coltnut

I just went down to the loading bench and made you a .44 cal. " Kake Cutter " to cleanly remove your cast bullets from your Ben's Red.

It works well with a .430" sized cast bullet. Might be a bit snug on a .431" cast bullet. I'm not certain what you're sizing your .44 cal. cast bullets to?

If you'll send me a PM with your address, it is free and I'll mail it to you free also.

Ben

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/001_zps7c71f650.jpg

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/003_zps1dd5ebe4.jpg

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/004_zps19672162.jpg

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/005_zpsdd2eaa16.jpg

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/006_zps44cb8db4.jpg

[45coltnut]

Ben, you are to kind! I'm sizing them to .430". Thank you so much. PM coming. But, I'd like to pay you for it all.

This is exactly what I mean about this site being so great.....it's the people!

[Ben]

45coltnut

You should be holding your new .44 cal. Kake Cutter by now.

Ben

[45coltnut]

Hi Ben,

Ironically enough, I just came up from the basement where I was giving it a try. Absolutely WONDERFUL!! This kake cutter works great. I actually just used it to re-clean the ones that I had lubed the other day. I'll be loading more up this evening for a range session tomorrow.

I had just about pulled the trigger on a lube / sizer. I'm really glad I gave all of this a try. It saved me quite abit of $ and now I can buy more molds for my rifles :)

Thanks again!!

Craig

[Ben]

Great.

Pan lubing is over 125 years old.

Catch is, just because something is old doesn't mean it is out of step or won't work well.

You can size and lube your .44 cal. cast bullets now and shoot groups just as well as people with $200 lube sizers.

ENJOY!

Ben

[myg30]

Craig, Glad to see you got it going on now. I bet your worse than a kid in a candy shop ! Cant get that grin off your face I bet !
This is what make this forum so great. There is always help and info for all that "want to " do the needed work and put the effort into making it all come together with boolits going down range and hitting the target straight on with no leading in the pipe.

Ben, I just wanted to say that you sir are a really great guy ! Not only have you provided everyone here with a lube but to go the extra and make a cake cutter for a struggling guy is awesome !
I do not pan lube but have followed this just for the useful knowledge and hope I can remember it all to pass along to others when needed.

FYI, I did thin down a small amount of BR to try for tumble lubing but I have not tried it yet. I'll post in the BR TL post when I do try it.

Mike

[45coltnut]

Yep, I'm as giddy as a little school girl :)

Just loaded up some more rounds and going to the range later for some fun. May even cast up some more as the weather is warming up some too.

Happiness is a hand casted.....hand lubed.....hand loaded round!
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/26/arysureb.jpg

[Ben]

Craig, Glad to see you got it going on now. I bet your worse than a kid in a candy shop ! Cant get that grin off your face I bet !
This is what make this forum so great. There is always help and info for all that "want to " do the needed work and put the effort into making it all come together with boolits going down range and hitting the target straight on with no leading in the pipe.

Ben, I just wanted to say that you sir are a really great guy ! Not only have you provided everyone here with a lube but to go the extra and make a cake cutter for a struggling guy is awesome !
I do not pan lube but have followed this just for the useful knowledge and hope I can remember it all to pass along to others when needed.

FYI, I did thin down a small amount of BR to try for tumble lubing but I have not tried it yet. I'll post in the BR TL post when I do try it.

Mike


Mike ,

You're much too generous with your words.

It is always great to help someone who is just starting out.

Something that I've always enjoyed doing .

Many have helped me through the years, I should be making an attempt to help others in return.

Thanks,
Ben