3031 for 45-70

[HNSB]

I am interested in load data for 3031 loads for 405gr. 45-70 in a lever action (Marlin).

My manuals and what I have read on the net give a very wide range...
I've seen anywhere from 38.5 to 55 (compressed) as a max load.

I don't have my manuals in front of me as I write this, but as I recall Lyman didn't list 3031 in their data for 405gr cast, and Lee only had it in their jacketed data.

I know this powder / boolit combo can be used. One of the online load databases shows at least one load of over 50gr 3031 with a 405 cast, and I've seen some anecdotal data of guys using over that.

I'm planning on starting low and working up, but I'd still like to have a firmer idea of what the top end is for this combo. I'm hoping to draw a bear tag, so I'd like to get a (safe) load at the higher end - not necessarily max, but I think 1800 fps should be reasonable to obtain with this powder out of a 22" barrel. Am I way off base?

LGS also has IMR 4198, when funds are available I might try that as well.

For now though, I'd like to keep the discussion about 3031 max loads for 405gr in lever actions.

[sharpsguy]

You won't need a max load with a 405 grain bullet for bear. 40 grains of 3031 with a flat nosed cast bullet out of a 45-70 will dump any black bear that walks. A better load is a Lyman 457121 480 grain flat nose over 38 grains of 3031. It cycles beautifully out of the Marlin lever gun and is dead accurate, and DEADLY.

[HNSB]

Thank you.
I'm sure that load will work for bear.

I'd still like to have a better ballpark of what max is... 40? 45? 55?

[pworley1]

I would not go over 50g in the Marlin. The max for the Ruger #1 is about 55g. If you really want to maxx out, I do not think you can get enough 3031 in the cast to damage your rifle assuming that it is sound, but I also don't think that there is anything to gained from it.

[robroy]

I wanna get out the Ice for my shoulder just thinking about max loads in a 45-70

[Griff411]

I didn't answer right away, hoping that someone with more direct experience would answer. I currently shoot only cast bullet loads in the .45-70 and have mainly used R-7, but a few years ago, I loaded up a few 3031 loads with jacketed 405 grain bullets. I worked my way up to the max listed in the Speer manual I was using at the time, which was 53.0 grains. I was shooting these out of a Miroku Winchester 1886. I only loaded and shot a few. My goal was just to experience a max load. I didn't chronograph them. With R-7, I used to shoot my cast 415 grain bullets at about 1600 fps, but I've since decided that I'd rather just match BP velocities and I backed them off a bit. I've had trouble finding R-7 lately (for some reason ;)), so I picked up a couple of pounds of 4198 to try. I have a few test rounds loaded, but I haven't had a chance to shoot them yet.

I have generally considered it safe to use jacketed data for cast bullets. I believe that the pressures generated should be less with cast bullets over jacketed with the same load data.

(All of the standard warnings and disclaimers apply to the above post.)

Griff

[TheCelt]

I shoot a 405gr Rem J-word Boolit in my Marlin 1895 over 50gr of 3031 and it punishes on both ends. I shoot the 405gr cast in front of 36gr of 3031 with no leading nor shoulder pain.