Picking the best rifle action and caliber for dedicated cast boolit hunting

[Camba]

Hello everyone!
I have had collected a few rifles in lever, bolt, semi-auto, break open single shot and I still have some in the same type of actions. Similar with pistols but I will limit this topic to just the best rifle, caliber, twist rate, and velocities that are considered good deer type boolit-caliber combination.

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

I like to read your opinions and learn from them. Thank you.
Camba

[NVScouter]

Any older 30-30 for that criteria. Win 94 or Marlin 336

[crappie-hunter]

I have 3 lever guns and 1 single shot dedicated to cast. Lever's are, two Rossi 92's, one 357mag and a 44mag, then a 1946 model marlin 336 30-30 with ballard rifleing. Single shot is a TC contender carbine in 30-30.

The 30-30's are my best performers using water dropped Lyman#2, and using 748 powder pushing them at or near full velocity of factory jacket ammo.

The 357 would be next in line as far as accuracy , using H110 powder at maximun charges.

44mag, has been a problem child, but acceptable for deer. Recoil with max charges of H110 along with the Rossi curved butt plate will get your attention.

Contender is a scoped carbine length barrel that is just scary accurate, using the same load as the marlin.

30-30's are easy to load and brass life is very good and load developement is not difficult. and performance for me is excellent.

Just my experience.

[Blanket]

my vote would be for the 38-55, action a matter of choice

[MBTcustom]

Given your criteria, I would say get a good Marlin 336 in 30-30 or 35rem, and get a Lee Loader, an 8lb jug of Unique....make that two 8 pounders, and shmelt yourself a bunch of 50/50 COWW/SOWW.
These cartridges can be run on black powder as well as smokeless powder, and more often than not, those old 336's are far more accurate than they have any right to be. That gets you accuracy, versatility, speed, and a handi go-anywhere package.
Use RCBS molds, they're cheap and they usually work well.

Now, If you want to invest a little bit more money, another option would be to get a remington 760 or 7600 in a 308-ish caliber, and send the barrel off to JES for 358 cal, 3 groove, 1/14 twist, hand cut sweetness, 358 Winchester! (Can I get an "AMEN!" up in here?!?!?) Don't know of anybody who has done this, and that would be very very nice.

Course if you want to just pull out all the stops, and throw a wheelbarrow full of money at it, check out my "Ultimate 358 Winchester"
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?213875-The-ultimate-358-Winchester
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

[youngda9]

AMEN ! I have a 1903 at JES right now to become a 358 12" twist (currently a 243) to throw some 358009 Accurate clones. Should be fun !

A 358 may not meet his criteria as a "survival tool" if that means must be able to find off the shelf ammo. If that is the case then go with a 308. If stocking up on your own supplies to make your own satisfies that criteria than a 358 is about as good as it gets, and as much as you need. I have 3 of em so I'm a little biased.

[dg31872]

My vote is for a Rem 788 in 30-30, 311041 Ranch Dog, SR 4759 with half ccww and 1% tin and half dead soft. Those 788's are very accurate.

[scb]

My choice to fill your requirements, without going into the realm of wildcats, would also be the 30/30. First choice of rifle would be T/C Contender with a barrel from one of the custom makers. If a single shot wasn't an option then first the Winchester m54, second Remington 788, third Savage 325/340.

[LuckySavage]

Rossi M92 in .357 wins hands down for the reasons stated below (IMHO)...OTOH, you will have to tweak the Rossi, as stated many times before.

1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg. $400-450. Bought mine for $415 from Champion.
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits. All day long (watch the WFN boolits. They sometimes create chambering issues)
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting. Shot three this year...magnificent expansion@ 1900fps.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge. 110, 2400 and Lil'Gun all work well.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber. 1 in 30 seems to work
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.
Best part is that you can have a dandy rifle/revolver combo that uses the same ammo. And IIRC, the Rossi can hold 10 (or 11) rounds in tube and chamber. The little rifle never has to disengage in a fight, you just keep shoving ammo into the tube. Mine is VERY accurate within 150 yds., which I consider the extreme distance that this rifle is capable of killing deer sized game. Pair it up with your choice of handgun, and you're carrying a formidable, relatively inexpensive SD combination capable of putting a whooping on whatever you point it at.

[Larry Gibson]

M94 Winchester rifle (24 - 26" barrel) in 30-30 (New Haven made).

1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg

Price will run from $250 - 600+ depending on make, model, condition and who you buy it from.

2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.

These are excellent cast bullet shooters from 80 gr cast bullets to 200 gr cast bullets. A TL314-90-SWC, a C309-150-FN or RCBS 30-150-FN and a Lyman 311041 will provide a broad spectrum of capability, including deer, bear and elk.

3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.

The 30-30 has probably brought down more deer than any cartridge.

4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.

With medium burning powders and the 150 - 180 gr cast bullets load density will be 80 - 100%. With the lighter weight 80 - 150 gr cast and the faster powders load density will be less but the 30-30 case will use the powder very efficiently.

5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.

The 12" twist of the M94 will give excellent accuracy up through 2200 - 2300 fps with the GC'd 150 - 180 gr cast. With a true PB 150 gr (RCBS 30-150-CM) 1600+ fps can be had with very good accuracy.

6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

The M94 is an excellent time proven design that is useful numerous purposes. The cartridge will give you an effective range for defense. I a "survival" situation consider with minimal reloading tools (the Lee Loader is an excellent suggestion) you can use any .30 cal ammunition of larger capacity and pull the bullet, fill the 30-30 case to the neck with the powder and seat the bullet in the 30-30 case. All such other cartridges will have a powder that is compatible with the 30-30 case capacity or that is slower burning. Thus psi with the same bullet will not be a problem. You also can carefully deprime the other case and reuse the primer (if a LR) in the 30-30 case. If the bullets (125 - 180 gr) are spritzers and are longer you can single feed them for hunting or if short enough to feed from the mag you can have a 2 shooter for hunting. Of course if casting bullets then the powder and primers can be used.

Very hard to beat the M94 Winchester for your requirements.

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

A 30-30 lever action is want you want. The only place I disagree with Larry is that I would choose a Marlin 336 over the Win 94. Purely an opinion thing, I just prefer Marlins.

You can't find a more cast friendly gun that a 30-30.

[Wolfer]

I have a 336 in 30-30. This would get my vote. While this caliber is best suited for deer it has no doubt killed every species of game on the north American cont in years gone by.
I also have a 760 in 30-06 that handles cast well but doesn't meet your criteria of space in the case with my loads. I'm a little partial to it just because we've put a lot of meat on the ground together. Woody

[MBTcustom]

A 30-30 lever action is want you want. The only place I disagree with Larry is that I would choose a Marlin 336 over the Win 94. Purely an opinion thing, I just prefer Marlins.
.

So does everybody else Brad. That's why you can't hardly get one in the price range the OP stipulated. Janky post 64 94's can be very easy to find in that price range. Just saw a whole row of them a few months ago at the pawn shop. The finish was gone on all the receivers (thanks Winchester for shooting yourselves in the foot with powder metal technology :roll:) Point is, they were cheap and functioned perfectly as any winchester should.


I take issue with Larry's suggestion of loading with powder from "any 30 caliber of larger capacity", except in a true survival situation when you have no other choice. If anybody tries that because "Larry said it would work" and blow a body part off, you obviously didn't take it in the spirit it was intended. Please reflect on the danger of this and ask yourself if you are in a true survival situation before trying this! Better yet, just don't do it!

[Artful]

Well, there was a discussion along similar thought...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?127940-I-need-a-hungry-rifle-caliber-to-feed-cast-too!!!

Search and Read that for more education


Hello everyone!
I have had collected a few rifles in lever, bolt, semi-auto, break open single shot and I still have some in the same type of actions. Similar with pistols but I will limit this topic to just the best rifle, caliber, twist rate, and velocities that are considered good deer type boolit-caliber combination.

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
So what rifles do you already own - they probably can be used for cast without spending any more money...

2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
You can do that to any rifle you want too.

3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
You have to look at state game regulations for this... some states require a specific amount of energy at a distance
and above a certain caliber - some require straight wall pistol type cases only.


4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
With today's powder shortages - you might want to look at what powder is available cheaper - some surplus
50 BMG powders can be put in cases to drive cast boolits well - but you'll need a big case for 'em.

5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
Depends upon the length of your boolit. Slower is usually better as long as it stabilizes at distance.

6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.
Survival in what sense? - backpack gun, Zombie Attack - what are you trying to survive?
If i was in wilderness situation and could only have one firearm that I already own -
Savage Model 24 (22LR over 20 gauge shotgun) combination rifle - best of both worlds cheap light rifle
combined with Slug or shot thrower.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

I like to read your opinions and learn from them. Thank you.
Camba

Give us some more information and we'll provide lots of food for thought. [smilie=1:

[TXGunNut]

I have a few rifles that fill the bill nicely with the possible exception of the survival mindset. M94 30-30's are nice but the 32 Special has a slower cast friendly twist. I also find a 336 in 35 Remington to be my most versatile rifle but the 30-30 is quite capable and possibly easier to feed as well. One that doesn't quite fit your criteria but is well worth considering is the 45-70. It's not as stingy with powder and lead as some other good choices but it may be a bit more effective with larger targets.

[Lonegun1894]

With the way I hunt, there isn't much I can't do with either a Rossi in .357 Mag or a .30-30 rifle. The rossi, as has been said, is VERY efficient on both powder and lead, and very accurate out to 300yds with my loads. I won't hunt with it past 150yds, but have kept 90% of shots on a human silhouette at 325yds the few times I have had a chance to try it. I use the .30-30 the same way, except can add another 100yds to the numbers above, and that is with either my 1971 Marlin 336 or my 1972 IIRC Winchester 94. The .357 uses a bit less powder, and gives a bit less performance at the longer ranges, but inside 150yds, they are basically interchangeable. Both use about the same amount of lead per shot, as my 158gr .357 molds cast at 164grs and my .311" 170gr mold casts at 178, and 14grs of lead isn't enough lead to really make a difference one way or the other.

So what kind of terrain do you hunt in, or at least what are your expected ranges, and what do you already have? I mean, this is a great bunch here and we can ALWAYS come up with an excuse for any of us to buy another rifle, but since you said you want to keep cost down, it can't get much cheaper than using what you already have.

[Larry Gibson]

The Marlin 336s have 10" twist and the Winchester M94s have 12" twists making them more cast bullet friendly for top end loads.

Goodsteel can take issue all he wants based on his opinion but my suggestion is based on facts. Any powder loaded in commercial .30 cal cartridges of equal or larger case capacity of the 30-30 is going to have a medium burning powder entirely compatible with the 30-30 and the pulled bullet or a slower burning powder. In either case the capacity of the 30-30, especially if less than the other cartridge is going to give less pressure, much less.

Take a simple .308W with 150 gr bullet for example; the .308 case with have about 45 gr of powder +/- of a slower burning powder than is used in the 30-30. The 30-30 case will only hold about 30 gr of the powder to the neck. Load the .308Ws 150 gr bullet in the 30-30 case and you get well below the SAAMI MAP for the 30-30 and about 1950 fps. How do I know that is a fact? I've done it and measured the pressure Is how I know it is a fact. For the uninformed doing as suggested is about the same as using pull down 4895 from 30-06 milsurp rounds (how many tones of that powder have been sold and used?) to load other cartridges. A load of 30 gr just fills the 30-30 case to the neck and is an excellent load for 150 - 170 gr jacketed or cast bullets and is "safe" for use in any rifle made for the 30-30.....and will not "blow off a body" part. So don't reflect on the "danger of this" as there isn't any more than in reloading in and of itself but instead reflect on the necessity of it......as I mentioned it is for use in a survival situation and only if necessary.

What I post on this forum is not based on my opinion or anyone else's unless I so specifically state. What I post is what I have done and tested. Otherwise I would not post it. The suggestion was for the asked for "survival situation" as I stated. That is an extreme situation and not the norm in case there is any confusion about that. In that survival situation you might have to do what you have to do and what I suggested is meant to be a suggestion just for that extreme type of situation.

As to "janky" M94s there are those as there are "janky" (not really sure what that means but have a good idea) Marlins. However, I got my M94 Black Shadow for $200 not too long ago. I've seen a couple more and several M94 rifles in the stated $250 - 400 range and M64s will cost upwards of the $600 so stated and really nice ones maybe more. Point is one doe's not have to look at the "janky" ones but contrary to some beliefs most of the "janky" post '64 - '67s M94s are still functioning fine, still shoot fine and would give excellent service.

Photo is of the $200 M94 Black Shadow. I pulled the scope off (it is an AE and the scope mounts over the bore just like the Marlin if you want a scope) after accuracy and load testing and now use it with the Lyman aperture rear sight. The receiver is nicely blued, just looks silver because of photo flash.

Larry Gibson

93985

[Camba]

I am so amazed of the many responses I've got. I appreciate the vast information on the best rifle/caliber combination for a dedicated cast boolit hunting rifle.
Although I am not surprised of the 30-30 being the most popular for deer size game hunting, I am surprised of a lever action and the 30-30 caliber to be the best choice for a dedicated cast boolit rifle. My Marlin 336, in that caliber, I gave it to my dad as a gift in 1987. I may need to get another one :grin:
I do have a couple of Ruger bolt action (77/357 & 77/44) rifles but now I am very curious of the lever guns as dedicated cast boolit rifle. The 358 win caliber is a nice caliber and it can pair up with the 357 mag and such for low level loads.
Larry, your idea of using other military ammo to pull down and use it in a 30-30 the bullet and the slow burning powder is an excellent idea. The closest to that what I have done was to pull down a 12 ga shotshell and melt the lead to make .225 boolits for my 223 Rem and use 8 to 10 grains of the shotshell powder to load a 55gr boolit GC. I used pistol and rifle primers interchangeable with good results.
One of the dedicated rifle choices that I thought would be great was to use a 7.62x39 Russian round in a Rossi Wizard single shot rifle. I prefer the caliber to be 308 instead of 311 though; but I guess it does not matter when you get the right cast mold for it. It is just a thought. Any opinions on that?
Camba

[Larry Gibson]

Camba

One of the dedicated rifle choices that I thought would be great was to use a 7.62x39 Russian round in a Rossi Wizard single shot rifle. I prefer the caliber to be 308 instead of 311 though; but I guess it does not matter when you get the right cast mold for it.

Not really a bad thought. I've a Mini Mk X Mauser in 7.62x39 that has a .311 barrel but the bore is small enough (.005 deep grooves) that the rifling gives a good grip on .308 jacketed bullets, especially FB'd ones of 130+ gr. The accuracy with those is very good within the effective hunting range of that cartridge. My 311041 drops 'em at .311 and they also shoot very well in that rifle.

Might consider the same with another barrel in 30-30? The best of both that way. The M94 would give an edge in a defensive situation though because it is a repeater.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Hello everyone!
I have had collected a few rifles in lever, bolt, semi-auto, break open single shot and I still have some in the same type of actions. Similar with pistols but I will limit this topic to just the best rifle, caliber, twist rate, and velocities that are considered good deer type boolit-caliber combination.

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

I like to read your opinions and learn from them. Thank you.
Camba

That's a hell of a question. Looking forward to some good answers.

[tygar]

The Marlin 336s have 10" twist and the Winchester M94s have 12" twists making them more cast bullet friendly for top end loads.

Goodsteel can take issue all he wants based on his opinion but my suggestion is based on facts. Any powder loaded in commercial .30 cal cartridges of equal or larger case capacity of the 30-30 is going to have a medium burning powder entirely compatible with the 30-30 and the pulled bullet or a slower burning powder. In either case the capacity of the 30-30, especially if less than the other cartridge is going to give less pressure, much less.
]

Dam, I've only been on here for awhile but I learned pretty quick not to challenge Larry, he's always got his sht in one sock!

lol I'm not a big 30-30 or 45-70 fan but I've been getting schooled on the 30-30 & may get into it more. My only one is a Sav99 which is accurate with jackets but I havn't got much with the cast yet.

To bad there isn't a pistol to go with the 30-30 like with the pistol cartridges in rifle combos.

I would have bet the consensus would have been 44mag rifle/pistol combo.
Good stuff.

[MBTcustom]

Ive been here for awhile too, and I learned to always challenge dangerous information because some newb is going to take and try it just to see what happens, and sure as shootin he's going to grab a reload or some other dam thing that wasn't what LG was talking about and decide to see what happens if he slides his face up next to his rifle and touch of a charge of the wrong thing.
If I had thought that the information was bad I would have deleted it and called it a day. It wasn't a challenge but merely a word of caution.
Ever played pass the rumor? By the time information like that trades hands three times it might be said that Larry says that you can dump powder from one cartridge into another, and as long as you fill it all the way up it's safe. LOL!
Trust me, stranger things have happened, and we have a newb population here that needs solid safe and sound information that can be read in any reloading manual.
I meant no offence to Larry whatsoever. Just thinking about the diverse audience that we have here.
Larry is rock solid on 99.9% of what he posts on this site, and I was in no way running him down or questioning what he said, except to add a word of caution.

Also, when I said "Janky 94" I was referring to the metal that they used in the post 64 receivers.
In no way does it effect the safety or function of those rifles, but they lose value like a rock because the finish on the receivers goes bad, and gets worn off quickly and (as I recently found out, much to my chagrin) it can't be reblued or repaired. It is startlingly resistant to any sort of finish except cold blue, and even that doesn't work worth a tinker's curse sometimes!
However, that makes them extremely well suited to a person looking for a rock solid, accurate rifle for low money.

[btroj]

I like the Marlin for ease of tear down and the ease of using a scope or receiver sight. I also have 4 other Marlins so they all have a similar feel.

Maybe someday I will have a 94 Winchester, I just haven't had an itch for one yet.

As for twist rate, I don't find it to be an issue really.

[Nrut]

Didn't we just do this???

1. Pre 64 Winchester .32 Special, Lyman receiver sight with a NOE 326407 at about 184 grs.>>>(1:16 twist, hint)
2. CZ 527 in 7.62X39 using a NOE 311407
3. Just about any single shot or lever in 45-70

Problem with the 45-70 for me is that I like to shoot a lot and cringe at using so much lead per shot..
If the availability and price of WW were the same as the were 25 years ago that wouldn't bother me..

Edit: Moar!
4. Marlin m94 in .357 cheap to shoot, fun, and accurate..
5. Browning Low Wall in the same..
6. Browning Low Wall in .45 Colt
7. Browning Low Wall in .44 mag. (don't own one of those but should be good to go)
8. 9.3X74R in a Blaser K95 (I read good things about the Ruger #1 chambered in the same)
9. Ruger #1 in .35 Whelen using PP
10. Ruger #1 in .405 Win.
11. CZ 550 FS in 9.3X62
I have shot all the above except the (Low Wall in .44 mag) with cast bullets plus 30-30, 38-55, 8X57 and probably some that I am forgetting with hunting accuracy..
ie. less that 2 1/2" with scope and less than 4" with tang or receiver sites..
Point is that there are many, many choices..

But for low recoil fun and miserly lead & powder wise I like the 7.62X39 and .357 mag.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I vote also for the 38-55. You can get to 300 grainers and thunp some really big masty bitty critters or go to RB and go bunny hunting.
I have Marlins and Winchesters and as far as portability I like the Winchester 2x over the Marlin. I am not going to hotrod it so the Winchester 1894 gets my hat tip.
That wonderfull straight wall cartridge does all we need. No extra wasted space. I am gonna vote for The 1-18 twist Winchester used. Mine all shoot 280's out to 200 yards with no problem. The 300's are good to 100 (all I tried) as that is as far as I would punch them.
Powder... any ya got. Well maybe stopping at 4350 on the slow side.. But 4831 with a very small kicker of Unique is not bad. 3F works right well also.
Yes I like caliber .38 rifles. I just am not facinated with smaller holes in a lever gun for a heavy smaking lead boolit. I can easily go light but smaller bores will struggle if not fail altogether with 300 grainers and that is what I want for things that may bite back.
Mike in Peru

[Artful]

I am so amazed of the many responses I've got. I appreciate the vast information on the best rifle/caliber combination for a dedicated cast boolit hunting rifle.

Although I am not surprised of the 30-30 being the most popular for deer size game hunting, I am surprised of a lever action and the 30-30 caliber to be the best choice for a dedicated cast boolit rifle. My Marlin 336, in that caliber, I gave it to my dad as a gift in 1987. I may need to get another one :grin:
Everyone should have a 30-30 in the rack if noth'n else as a loaner gun, too bad their not as cheap as they used to be.

I do have a couple of Ruger bolt action (77/357 & 77/44) rifles but now I am very curious of the lever guns as dedicated cast boolit rifle. The 358 win caliber is a nice caliber and it can pair up with the 357 mag and such for low level loads.
Either should shoot cast well, and A nice 358 either bolt or lever is always an excellent choice.

Larry, your idea of using other military ammo to pull down and use it in a 30-30 the bullet and the slow burning powder is an excellent idea. The closest to that what I have done was to pull down a 12 ga shotshell and melt the lead to make .225 boolits for my 223 Rem and use 8 to 10 grains of the shotshell powder to load a 55gr boolit GC. I used pistol and rifle primers interchangeable with good results.

One of the dedicated rifle choices that I thought would be great was to use a 7.62x39 Russian round in a Rossi Wizard single shot rifle. I prefer the caliber to be 308 instead of 311 though; but I guess it does not matter when you get the right cast mold for it. It is just a thought. Any opinions on that?
Camba
No experience with Rossi Wizard but 7.62x39 is pretty cast friendly - Mine's made up on a bolt gun
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/762x39MauserWASRconversion.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/762x39MauserWASRconversion.jpg.html)

[tygar]

Ive been here for awhile too, and I learned to always challenge dangerous information because some newb is going to take and try it just to see what happens, and sure as shootin he's going to grab a reload or some other dam thing that wasn't what LG was talking about and decide to see what happens if he slides his face up next to his rifle and touch of a charge of the wrong thing.
If I had thought that the information was bad I would have deleted it and called it a day. It wasn't a challenge but merely a word of caution. .

I didn't mean to upset you. He was very clear he was responding to a hypothetical "survival" situation & posited a situational remedy.

What he said was correct as far as my knowledge goes & given the original question posed seemed right on the button.

"I've been here for awhile too" I was in fact denigrating my lack of time here (read "I've ONLY been on here for awhile), & was not in any way denigrating your time or status. As a matter of fact I was just being funny (I thought) since I have been corrected on here before.

So sorry bout that.

As you know I have read your stuff & positively commented on it before, as I did on your .358 M14 post & have accepted & thanked you for your comments.

Just keeping it light.
Tom

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Hello everyone!
I have had collected a few rifles in lever, bolt, semi-auto, break open single shot and I still have some in the same type of actions. Similar with pistols but I will limit this topic to just the best rifle, caliber, twist rate, and velocities that are considered good deer type boolit-caliber combination.

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

I like to read your opinions and learn from them. Thank you.
Camba

No doubt some calibers are friendlier and more efficient than others for what you require, but at the end of the day, there is a pretty long list of calibers that will fit the the bill. Why not post what you have and let everyone pick from the list?

[MT Gianni]

Hit the used rifle rack at a good gunstore. Hunting season is over, Christmas bills are due and it is time to pay them. Look for a bolt action 308 or 30-06 with a decent fixed power scope. If it is one in 12 twist great but don't kick out a good one in 1 in 10. Offer cash and start low. Load a 150-180 gr flat nose bullet to 1800-2200 fps and get familiar with where it shoots. You now have a 250 yard deer rifle.

[Camba]

The other rifles I already have are:
1. Remington Model Seven SST in 7mm-08 Rem
2. Browning BLR in 7mm-08 Rem
I had been trying some cast boolit shooting with them but I have not gotten a consistent group that I can be proud of. I recently purchased the 7mm Soup Can 6 cavity mold from Lee but I had not made any castings yet.
Ever since I joined this forum, I had been little by little learning and trying the boolit cast experience. I have had some good success with the 223 Rem and 5.7x28 Fn rifles (5.7x28 in the T/C Contender) which it fulfills the reloadable small game round with the lowest cost to reload.
I believe a 30 cal rifle may be a good one to secure meat with more authority in case that as a survival one has to compete for finding meat and making a shot count it may insure your survival. It may give you a little more distance than a smaller caliber type too.
I also think that the rifle should be something that is easy to clean and "unjam" as well as low number of parts that can break.

Camba

[JesterGrin_1]

Everyone has there own life perspective of what they feel would be Great. As there are many options.

Many have said the 30-30 for caliber of which I also would feel is a good caliber and I also feel the Marlin would be the way to go mainly due to the fact that they are easy to tear down and clean and assemble. And they are also side eject which also helps keep things from falling into the action from above as like can happen with the Winchester style of action.

There are some good boolit designs for the 30-30 and they are more than capable for Deer sized game and frugal on powder used.

I also feel that the .35 Remington would make a very nice round except for the fact that brass is hard to come by at this time. So do to this fact alone I would not pick the 35 Remington.

So after all of this I really feel that for the Reloader the .358 Winchester would be the way to go and in a Bolt Rifle. I can hear it now,Why do you feel that way welllllllllllllllllllllll. :)

First the Bolt rifle has fewer moving parts than any lever gun of which should increase dependability. Plus due to the action type you can shoot many different designs and weights of Boolits even if they will not feed slick from the magazine you can still load 1 at a time if need be of which opens a world of options.

By Boolit options I mean you can pick very light bullets designed for the .38Sp/.357 Mag of say 158Gr all the way up to the 358009 280Gr RN/GC. So what I am saying is that you can pick a load and a bullet that will cover you from Rabbit to Bear with the same cartridge of which I feel is a BIG Plus.

What this also means is if for some reason you feel stuck with only a few components to take along you can pick 1 boolit mold to use for both the .38Sp/357 Mag and use the same boolit in the .358 Winchester if you had to.

For powder usage they are a very efficient cartridge.

For brass you can use factory made .358 Winchester brass or resized .308 Winchester brass of which means components will not be that hard to find.

Not to mention the .358 Winchester is an accurate round.

This is if you are looking for a Rifle Round that is very versatile.

But if you were looking at the biggest animal that you could possibly encounter would be a Deer and you were willing to work at the hunt to keep ranges at about 100 yards and less then I would go with a Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum as it is also capable for Deer sized game down to Rabbit and can be used in both rifle and pistol. The .357 Magnum would be easy to cast for and very cheap to load. Another plus to the .357 Magnum rifle is that due to the relative low recoil of the rifle you can pretty much hand it to anyone and they can achieve good shot placement without worry of heavy felt recoil



Just one more note. I have been shooting for oh about 45 years and as the years have passed my perspective on cartridges have changed a great deal in that time and the firearms that use them. As I said this is all personal perspective of what You feel is important for what You Do. Nobody can decide for you, only give you there own personal thoughts with there own personal decisions.

That is my simple opinion of which is worth what you paid for it. Nothing except the time it took to read it. :)

[youngda9]

What...nobody is going to say an AR-15 is the ultimate everything gun ?

This is why I love this place !

[bob208]

for survival a muzzle loader in .45-50 cal. with a pile of lead and a keg of powder. after that a 94 Winchester in .32 spl because it can be reloaded with black powder. after that a 94 in .30-30. Ideal would be a take down with a barrel in each cal. with a mold and a 310 tool to load with.

[MBTcustom]

What...nobody is going to say an AR-15 is the ultimate everything gun ?

This is why I love this place !

I finally got to shoot an AR the other day, and I have to say I can really see what all the hype is about.

Yep, it was pretty spectacular how it flew into a bunch of pieces when I connected with a 405 grain boolit from my 45-70. It was definitely a positive experience, and I can't wait to shoot another one.

:twisted: Heh heh. :twisted:

:drinks:

[nekshot]

30-30 any action, then 7.62x39 in a bolt or single shot, last 308 in any action. I am not smart enough to pick the best, I simply am going with what I have worked with and I have thought this sceneria many a time over the years.

[popper]

Any 336 in 30/30. Repeater, any sights you want, durable, light, easy takedown, load light to full power. Single load for long, heavy or pointy boolits. You really want to hike 500 yds to find the doe you just took? Watch a TV meat hunter - they always end up going off-target when using bolt action. Shooting zombies prone is a different story. A BLR in 308 would be nice, but too purdy for the woods.

[dragon813gt]

From a strictly survival standpoint I say it would depend on your area. I know there are far more people w/ 30/06 than 30/30. The Remington 760 is 30/06 has been a PA hunter's favorite since it was introduced. I know there are plenty of 30/30s as well. But who wants to go through the hassle of pulling bullets and making rounds in a survival situation.

I'd also want simplicity. This means bolt action of single shot. Not much to go wrong w/ either one. Ever shot a lever action where the timing was off? No fun in a survival situation.

All that being said I'm not sure what I would choose for survival. My 1894C and S&W 586 make a great combo. But a bolt action 308 is appealing as well. But then again I wouldn't want to make a lot of noise so a bow and arrow is a better option.

So many variables for a strictly survival situation. And no answer given now could possibly cover it because you won't know what needs to be done until it happens.

I find a 1894C to be perfect for where I live. It has enough power to take out the biggest predator, black bear, if need be. And ammo is more abundant then 44 magnum. So manu choices :banghead:

[Camba]

I like the idea of picking up an old bolt action rifle in 308win. The calibers I am interested on now are: 7.62x39 Russian, 30-30win, 308win and 358 win. I will be on the look out for any of those. The 358win sounds interesting using the 357 mag pistol bullet for low velocities small game and 200+ grains for something more serious and as it had been mentioned above, it can be made out of 308win cartridges.
I will keep my eyes open for a good used rifle in any of those 30 cal cartridges. From time to time I had seen Browning BLR rifles in 358win. Too bad when I purchased my 7mm-08 rem BLR, they had both (7mm-08 & 358win) and I choose the one caliber that I already have in a bolt gun to save in buying bullets. Now they seem to had vanished.
Thank you all for all the information and options that you have discussed in this thread. This is my favorite forum by far.
Camba

[superior]

1. action lever
2. caliber 45-70

The only other caliber I would think is as versatile would be a 35.
In a Marlin 1895g, I go from mice to moose and beyond. Roundballs loafing along at slow velocity punch nice holes through small critters, while heavier slugs anchor large beasts like an NBA player dunking with authority. ( I don't like to have to track them down) Extra space in the case isn't a problem using 2400 or unique.
There's nothing wrong with a small powder charge if it gets the job done. If I had to survive with a 45-70, I'd feel both confident and safe; confident in knowing I could provide food, and safe knowing I had the power to defend myself against dangerous game.

[MBTcustom]

1. action lever
2. caliber 45-70

The only other caliber I would think is as versatile would be a 35.
In a Marlin 1895g, I go from mice to moose and beyond. Roundballs loafing along at slow velocity punch nice holes through small critters, while heavier slugs anchor large beasts like an NBA player dunking with authority. ( I don't like to have to track them down) Extra space in the case isn't a problem using 2400 or unique.
There's nothing wrong with a small powder charge if it gets the job done. If I had to survive with a 45-70, I'd feel both confident and safe; confident in knowing I could provide food, and safe knowing I had the power to defend myself against dangerous game.

Like a flying Michael Jordan slam dunk. LOL!
Well said!

[cuzinbruce]

How about a Savage 219 single shot in 30/30? If you really want to save on powder, find one in 32/20.

[largom]

If I were to pick one gun to meet all of your requirements I would choose my Savage 24 with it's 30-30/ 20 ga. over/under barrels, two guns in one. The 30-30 being the best choice for medium sized game and cast boolits. The 20 ga. will handle all of your small game needs and slip in a 20 ga. slug for dangerous game up close.
Being a single shot [for each barrel] the gun is easy to clean and maintain. Can also be broken down for packing.
You should be able to find one for under $350.00

Larry

[nanuk]

Larry is rock solid on 99.9% of what he posts on this site,.....

it is the other 0.1% of the time that can be an issue.... like suggesting a Lever gun over a Single shot! :kidding:

Heaven help us! :bigsmyl2:

me, I would think a simple single shot, like a Handi rifle, even in 30-30 would be prefered over a lever.
but then, when I think survival, I am not thinking about rapid fire defensive shooting.
but when that is included, a single shot may not be the best....


All I can say is I like rifling that gets hold of and engraves the boolit.
I do not like shallow groove rifling, what I call a mirror image of rifling.
Like has been said already, the older Winchester 30-30's or any 1950's and prior craftsmanship/methods of rifling for that matter.

think Fine Thread bolt torque ratings VS coarse thread bolt torque ratings and you'll find your answer....



The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

Camba

in response to Camba, MY $0.02
1) H&R handi. very cost effective. accurate enough for any hunting situation. easy to work on (one could probably make his own parts from scrap with a file and hacksaw)
2) any gun can shoot cast... a 35cal handi has a 1/16 twist
3) a 35Rem, 358Win, or 35Whelen fills that need rather well
4) larger calibers can use faster powders too, and a tuft of dacron fiber... efficiency is a frame of mind... where there is a will..
5) see number 2)
6) a 35cal in 358Win: can shoot .355FMJ's from 9mm (probably use the powder also, for rabbit gun type shots) 357mag rounds can be pulled and used, also 38Spl.
a plethora of moulds are available.
it can throw from mild to wild, anything from 000buck, to 300gr heavies if that is all you have.
JHP pistol bullets work on varmints, JSP's work on small game, a good selection of Jword rifle bullets.
Cast boolits are perfect in a Winny.
Brass is EVERYWHERE

in a survival situation, it does leave one with options.

I think all of my hunting, from grouse to moose could be handled by a single shot in 358Win.

[Gaterskiner]

The .45 Colt is A good choice. I have loads from 250 Grainers with unique to 300 grainers with H110 That will kill most anything that needs killin. Shoot them in A Rossi 92 and A Marlin Cowboy.

[nanuk]

How about a Savage 219 single shot in 30/30? If you really want to save on powder, find one in 32/20.

the only reason I would oppose the 219 (and I have 5 of 'em) is it is very difficult to repair a broken firing pin, and they are prone to breakage...

that is why I went with the Handi Rifle.

I sure wish the Handi had the sleek lines of the 219, and I would want to stay with the exposed hammer.

[garym1a2]

AR15 in 300 Blackout shooting 155-160gr at 1800fps is good on hogs and deer and better than most on two leg varmints.
No room in that small case for wasted air. Plus its decent with 1:8 twist and better if you find a 1:10 to 1:12 twist.
Easy to find the parent case.

[Camba]

The 300 BLK is also a good caliber from what I read about but I have never fired one from a rifle. That is definitely a very efficient cartridge.
I don't have an AR type rifle (I should get one just because). but I would love to have a bolt action on that caliber. What is very attractive is the availability of brass to make it from 223 Rem. The 30 caliber seems to come up quite a bit in the discussion. There's got to be something about it that makes it a great cast boolit shooter.

[Adk Mike]

I like a cheap bolt gun in 30-06. I have a Sears model 70 knock off. I cut the high comb down mounted a Lyman receiver site. With 800 empty 06 cases and a 311299 mold. Plus some good powder the thing is a good time. Like everybody I have a lot of guns some are very nice. But the one I grab a lot is the 06. Mike

[osteodoc08]

Caliber either 30/30 or 45/70.

Marlin or Winchester

My personal go to is a Marlin 1895 GS in 45/70.

[Smoke4320]

I am going to answer this based on YOUR criteria
300 Blackout in an H&R Single shot or Old Win 94 30-30 or 7.62x39

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

personally as a survival/hunting rifle its 300 Blkout with suppressor .. it will do it all mild to wild 110 grn to 247 grn
Mine is an AR but that's a different story and more cost
if you like more power a real Marlin 45/70 with ballard rifling
just my opinion your may vary

[Old School Big Bore]

Handy Rifle or other break-open .30-30, with a couple of aux chambers for .32 ACP and .30 Carbine...or a Savage bolt .30-30 would be great, or if you want it to be a bit more tactical-friendly, a lever rifle in .30.30 or .357 or .44Mag. Hey, DG31872, while you're dreaming up 788s, dream me one up in .44 Mag, please?

[garym1a2]

Too bad the handi-rifle in blackout is 1:7 twist. It would be great in 1:10.

I am going to answer this based on YOUR criteria
300 Blackout in an H&R Single shot or Old Win 94 30-30 or 7.62x39

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

personally as a survival/hunting rifle its 300 Blkout with suppressor .. it will do it all mild to wild 110 grn to 247 grn
Mine is an AR but that's a different story and more cost
if you like more power a real Marlin 45/70 with ballard rifling
just my opinion your may vary

[GabbyM]

My new dedicated cast boolit rifle is a CZ-527 in 222 Rem.

There is a reason I have more rifles than will fit in my gun cabinet. Half of them are great cast shooters. The rest will shoot cast.

Due to the fact I saw a need to get a load set for each rifle I own then keep the sights set for that load. Opposed to having five loads for each of a “few “ guns. Goal is to actually have more than one or two rifles I know what ammo they are sighted in for at that moment. Tall order.

So I’m dedicating some rifles to cast and dedicating others to just jacketed loads. Cast bullet rifles are as follows. In progression of power factor.

CZ-527 LUX in 222 Rem.
Win 94 AE in 30-30.
Win FN-M-70 Sporter in 30-06.

To cover J bullet demands I’ve 223, 243 AI and 270 Win.

I think I’ve about got it covered.

For the most fun for your money in a cast bullet hunter for small to medium game and varmints. Hard to beat the Zustava’s $430 mini Mauser in 222 Rem. If you want a J bullet velocity near 22-250 with J bullets but still have a round that magazine feeds five shots. They chamber the 222 Rem Magnum in a 14 twist also. There 223 is a 12 twist and thus should run cast to 2200 fps accurately. I’ve already run my CZ in 222 in 14 twist to 2,350 fps stacking bullets on top of one another at 40 paces. Just got it this week. Up to the point where a 60 grain bullet starting at 2,400 fps isn’t’ enough gun. This 222 is shaping up to be the most fun gun I have. The great Winchester 94 will always be nipping at it’s heals. But it takes three times the lead and a bit over twice the powder every time I pull the trigger. Mostly though that’s what I tell myself to justify buying a new rifle.
http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civilianproduct/sporting-rifle-m85

[Fishman]

Camba I think your two ruger 77's in .357 and .44 would be wonderful cast bullet shooters that meet your criteria. Best thing is that you already have them. For quite a few years I had only one rifle, a post '64 Winchester 30/30. It did just fine. I shot a lot that gun a lot and still like to, although I have a rifle for just about any day or whim now.

[Camba]

Fishman,
You are right. I may already have the rifles that meet that criteria with my 357 and 44 Ruger bolt guns. I always thought that the best accuracy and range reaching rifles for cast boolits are from bottle neck type calibers. My 22 center-fire rifles are doing very well with the RCBS 225-SP-55 mold and ok with a 22 Bator mold. My 7mm-08 rem and my 7-30Waters, using a Lee 130gr, RCBS-145gr, have not shown consistency from group to group. I bought a Lee 7mm Soup Can mold that I am waiting on warmer weather to make a batch and try. I will do the same with the 357 and 44 rifles.
I am still intrigued by the successes that others have with 30 cal rifles when it comes to cast boolits. From what I had been reading, the best accuracy using cast boolits happens between 1900 to 2300 fps. So, if I get a 30 cal cartridge that can be loaded to those velocities with the least amount of powder, then that will be great. I know that all the 30 cal cartridges can be down loaded to reach those velocities but a 30-06 will need more powder than a 30-30 to achieve the same velocity or the 7.62x39 for that matter. I noticed the powder difference between my 223 rem and the 5.7x28 rifles to achieve same speeds. Of course, the 5.7x28 reaches its max sooner than the 223 rem when going from 58GC to something larger.
Just my train of thought here but that does not means I am right. I love reading responses from all of you in this forum. The vast information on cast boolits and how to achieve levels that even the jacketed bullets whish to achieve is in this site. I am very happy to be a member.
Camba

[pmer]

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

To me this describes a Win. 94 in .32 Winchester Special with its 16 twist barrel. It can push softer alloys pretty fast for hunting. I'd think buy the time you get a bolt action rebarreled it would be cheaper to get a .32WS . And it makes a bigger hole than a .30 cal. hehe.

But since the word "survival" is in there; .357 because ammo is all over the place.

[Camba]

I went to the range to test some 357 Mag loads for my Ruger 77/357.
I used a Missouri Cast Co. boolit, 158 gr with H4198 powder (just because) and CCI-550 pistol primers. I also shot a group of jacketed 158 gr GDHP for reference.
Load 1: 18.0 gr of H4198 (left target)
Load 2: 20.0 gr of H4198 (right target)
Load 3: 12.2 gr of 2400 (middle, top target)
I never loaded a picture here so I don't know how it will come out. I recently took the scope out to test a new rifle I've bought so I had to do it open sights at 25 yards. The loads did not show any signs of pressure and they were very pleasant to shoot.
Camba
94718

[samwithacolt]

Planning a moose/elk hunt this fall with my 9.3x62 Mauser 98 if I get it set up in time(it's off getting the bolt handle bent right now)
290 gr boolit, hoping for about 2300 fps, should kill anything on the planet. I bought this gun specifically for big cast boolits in a package that takes a scope.
.35 Whelen would be my 2nd choice in a fairly available bolt gun. Both can use .30-06 brass and punch harder than they kick.

[lawboy]

I want to say 7.62x39 in a micro bolt action because I have and enjoy a CZ 527. But I have to vote 30-30 I a Marlin levergun, mainly due to the longer case neck.

[Lead Fred]

Cheap route, a Handi Rifle in 30-30, a few more bucks will get you a Winchester 94 or marlin 336. If you want a scope, go with the Marlin.

[pls1911]

Marlin 336 in 30-30 is an easy answer... an alternative is the savage 340/325 series bolt actions.
reasonably priced, and nicely accurate.

[DougGuy]

OP for what you want, there are a number of rifles that will fit within the criteria, but tbh it would be downright hard to beat a 94 or 336 in 30/30 caliber. The 30/30 has taken more deer in this country than any other caliber made.

[Alan]

Used 760, and screw a .35 Whelen barrel on it. 12-14" twist. Lyman 3589/358009. It will kill anything in NA, and you can use pistol bullets for small game.

[mpbarry1]

I've been eying the 32 win special. 1 in 16 twistshould work well. I have a friend with one, we should be able to play w it this summer.

[GeezerinNH]

Marlin 45/70, collars to big ones kill everything in the western hemisphere and many elsewhere.

[Blammer]

ya need a 7-08 with the NOE 7mm Hunter. :)

or

get a 308 win and go for it.

[lar45]

If you went with the 357 mag you could throw in the option of some lightweight 30 cal bullets by useing muzzle loader sabots
http://mmpsabots.com/store/grey-sabot/

Here is a Utube video about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTmXOjA5RU

[Dinny]

I have to agree with those who recommended the single shot rifles. I once thought my 30-30 Handi rifle was the perfect lead slinger until I rechambered it to 30-40 Krag. Now I have one powder that does everything I need (A2400) with boolits weighing 165-214gr.

Thanks, Dinny

[JesterGrin_1]

If you went with the 357 mag you could throw in the option of some lightweight 30 cal bullets by useing muzzle loader sabots
http://mmpsabots.com/store/grey-sabot/

Here is a Utube video about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTmXOjA5RU

That is definitely intriguing.

[old gunner]

about 1965 I had a rem. 760 in 35 rem, converted to 358 win. it was fairly easy job. rechamber the
barrel to 358 win. change the bolt head, used 308 mag, which worked well with only three rounds.
with the slower rifling pitch, the rifle really liked a lyman 200 gr. gas check. the only problem was the recoil with full power.

[kawasakifreak77]

I was just making the same decision the OP is. Now, I'm building a .35 Remington Hand I rifle.

Cheap, simple, accurate, cast friendly caliber.

I plan on pairing it with a 16ga barrel for small game. I figure there's not too many things you couldn't take care of with those two barrels.

[gpalma]

What will be your choice of rifle action, caliber, twist rate, and why?

Marlin 336
35Rem.
Twist-factory
Will kill deer as dead as dirt to 150yds, very efficiently. Strong action, time-proven design. Low-recoil cartridge that is flexible for light/heavy loads.

[camotruck]

All great answers. Here's mine, and like all good answers... it starts with a question or three.
What is the survival situation? In the real end no weapon will help you. Grab your Bible.

Economic collapse? and all the Zombies rolling out of the cities looking for food or some other hand out that they have become accustom to. Followed by the government men coming to stop you from defending yourself? I think I want a few AR's and a couple people that know how to use them. Ammo and replacement parts provided by the dead bad guys.

The perfect end where some strange virus comes in and wipes out the zombies before they even know there's a problem leaving few marauders but also no manufacturing and you're left scrounging? In that kind of survival situation I think you have the rifle you want in your 77/357 add a revolver to your hip and your ready to roll and roll your own.

Me I think in the 2nd situation I'll have the AR in 223 only because that's what the bad guys will be supplying. In #3 I have a 357 Max Encore Single shot and a S&W 686. Looking back I don't know that the max was the way to go only because the lead is so long when shooting 38 SPC and 357 mag that I loose some accuracy. so the mag may be perfect.

I have a 336 in 35 Rem. I love it. But in a survival situation the shoulder collapses and now the firing pin can't do its job. timing issues were mentioned before, moving parts broken ejector shallow rifling, brass availability ... It would be the last gun I'd grab as I headed out the door. In 30/30 probably a better idea than the .35 Only because of the availability of brass and the rim. same issue with moving parts. Someone said a muzzle loader and mentioned black powder (hope I don't flamed for this) we load BP to the mouth of a 38 SPC case and load a 158 Gr. cast PB boolit. Dirty but a bunch of fun to shoot.

Will your Ruger cycle 38 special?

Wow sorry that got a lot longer that I wanted.. Single shot 357 Mag or Max, 357 Mag revolver, buckets of 357 Mag more buckets of 38 special, and a half bucket 357 Max (only because of availability of brass). and a 158 gr PB mold.

Camo

[camotruck]

I reserve the right to change my answer if I can stay in my current location, in which case I'm keeping them all. LOL

Camo

[Piedmont]

I have a 336 in 35 Rem. I love it. But in a survival situation the shoulder collapses and now the firing pin can't do its job.
Camo

So, what is it about a survival situation that makes the shoulder of a .35 Remington collapse?

[camotruck]

Sorry, I left out a small but important word there. It should have read ... In a survival situation IF the shoulder collapses .... It's not the situation. It's just something that sometimes happens. The rim on a 30/30 or 38 or 357 Mag or Max won't have that problem.

Camo

[hickfu]

1st I would choose my Marlin 1895SBL in 45-70
2nd would be my 1950 Marlin 336A in 35 Rem

Yes, I am a Marlin kind of guy

Doc

[Camba]

I am wondering if I can shoot the RCBS 35-200 in 200gr (used in the 358 win) in my 357 mag 77/357 rifle. Has anyone done that before?

[altheating]

If you do you will have to feed it one at a time. The 360-180 boolit just fits in the mag so I'm thinking the RCBS 200 grainer will not work. That boolit sure does work good in the 358 win !

[savtuner]

If I wanted one firearm for protection, that could keep me supplied in meat to eat, was capable of efficiently taking any type of game on the North American continent I would take a hard look at something like a Remington 870 shotgun with an improved / modified barrel and a slug barrel. Birds, squirrels rabbits, small game with shot, serious social engagements, buckshot; deer, moose, any bear go with the slug barrel that is good now a day to 200 yards. With a rig like that I feel I will have upped my chances for survival significantly.

[fatnhappy]

The criteria for this rifle should be:
1. One that does not cost an arm and a leg
2. One that can be a dedicated only for cast boolits.
3. Capable of at least bringing down a deer size animal when hunting.
4. A caliber that uses the powder load more efficient so you don't have extra empty room in the cartridge.
5. A twist rate that will be best for cast boolits on that specific caliber.
6. Rifle/caliber to be a great survival tool if that is all that you can end up with.



I think a strong case could be made for a 8 x 57 mauser from any of the dozens of nations that made them. A cheap as dirt turk mauser with a decent barrel will more than fit the bill. The up side for your "survival tool" is the untold millions of parts available strewn across all continents and corners of the earth.
The 8mm is a tractable CB cartridge which I wouldn't hesitate to use on deer, elk or moose.

YMMV and fit is king.

[catncarp]

I love my handi rifles and have 4 that shoot cast very well

[jhalcott]

I'm one of those anile types that would NEVER settle on only ONE weapon for every thing! IT JUST AIN'T PRACTICLE! I have a lot of guns ,pistol and rifle, that shoot cast quite well. I don't believe in the "dooms day" principle. WILL I be at home when the SHTF? Or miles away making a living! Living in a large metropolitan area, it would be almost impossible to get to MY stash AND family in a short time. In the aftermath of a global catastrophy, WHERE would I get components to reload any way? SURE, I could make my own bullets. NOW where do I get the powder and primers??? In this fantasy world, I'd be better off with a bow and arrow. Much quieter than ANY gun, deadly at reasonable distance, and sticks are every where!
as to the BEST action and caliber for cast ANY will work, but I seem to have the best luck with abolt action rifle and/or a break action handgun! Caliber doesn't seem to matter all that much!

[nanuk]

Fine thread coarse thread is ridiculous unrelated comparison.
Dissimilar metals traveling thousands feet per second against steel vs a nut or bolt static.
I was not looking for an answer my comment is The answer.
For a simple break open single shot rifle Handi-rifles have a plethora of accuracy problems and wear points from just carrying them.


lead is lead

similar metals behave similarly

fine threads have more surface area, therefore stronger.

microgrooves have more surface areas, therefore they are as or more strong in the rotational stresses than standard rifling

I am not familiar with the Plethora of accuracy problems Handi Rifles have.... 30-30 handis are often very accurate. more so than any lever Winchester 30-30....

[starmac]

This is a fun thread. It seems most peoples answer is what they have, which makes sense.

I have a couple of questions.
How many of you actually carry light loads for rabbits or grouse or small critters and heavy loads for deer or larger on the same hunt? Do you actually swap out loads in the field?
For the lever, marlin vs winchester guys, how many of you have found yourself actually needing to do a complete strip down in the field on a hunt?
I see the lee loader mentioned several times, and thet is what I started with and have several, but I am thinking (dangerous) that a lee hand held press would be better. I have never used one (or really even looked at one) but in my mind they are almost as portable and more versatile. Am I thinking wrong here?

The op states maximum deer sized game, if that is the case I would go with my 94 30/30. I have choices including bolts in 30/30, but the winchester carries better in the field. Plus I just like it better.
For my part of the country, I would choose the 45/70, which would be the marlin guide gun, because that is what I have. lol One 405 gr load and a single six for the small stuff.
Now if I ever get my hands on the 358 that I lust after, my choice would change, no matter what part of the country I was in, but I don't have that one YET. lol
Lastly my personal preference is levers, yours will vary, and where beeg bears are not in the equation I wouldn't mind single shots, but in my mind they are not an option for me, in this part of the country.

[dragon813gt]

I have made my bed ;)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/2D04FCB3-5825-4273-B377-1127DA0EAFB5-19639-00000D1E5F9D322A_zps26bdac83.jpg

[fatnhappy]

I have made my bed ;)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/2D04FCB3-5825-4273-B377-1127DA0EAFB5-19639-00000D1E5F9D322A_zps26bdac83.jpg

Nice rifle. I assume when operated properly things go flop with aplomb. I dare say, however, it may violate the original poster's rule #1.

[dragon813gt]

Nice rifle. I assume when operated properly things go flop with aplomb. I dare say, however, it may violate the original poster's rule #1.

I just took possession yesterday so I don't know how it works yet on game. And at slightly under $600 it didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

[starmac]

That would be the one that would probably replace my 45/70. lol

[fatnhappy]

I just took possession yesterday so I don't know how it works yet on game. And at slightly under $600 it didn't cost me an arm and a leg.
you, my friend, got a screaming deal!

[MBTcustom]

I just took possession yesterday so I don't know how it works yet on game.

I am a practicing gunsmith, and I can speak definitively about this. You've got the wrong gun in completely the wrong caliber. I have heard quite a few stories of the boolits just bouncing off a whitetail deer. Also, that guns lever has a problem with sometimes locking up solid when the lever is squeezed firmly against the grip. No good. No good at all.

Now, I hate to see you in this terrible mess you've got yourself into, so I am willing to take a huge risk and give you your money back for that gun. I might be able to use it as an example to other unfortunate souls or something.
:kidding:

OK seriously, good score! You can just go ahead and sell every other rifle you have. That one is the gem. Hold onto it like grim death my friend.

[TXGunNut]

I just took possession yesterday so I don't know how it works yet on game. And at slightly under $600 it didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Gee, no range report yet? ;-)

[dragon813gt]

I am a practicing gunsmith, and I can speak definitively about this. You've got the wrong gun in completely the wrong caliber. I have heard quite a few stories of the boolits just bouncing off a whitetail deer. Also, that guns lever has a problem with sometimes locking up solid when the lever is squeezed firmly against the grip. No good. No good at all.

Now, I hate to see you in this terrible mess you've got yourself into, so I am willing to take a huge risk and give you your money back for that gun. I might be able to use it as an example to other unfortunate souls or something.
:kidding:

OK seriously, good score! You can just go ahead and sell every other rifle you have. That one is the gem. Hold onto it like grim death my friend.

Well this one is need of rebluing and to have a stock fitted. I also have a 300 Savage that's in need of the same thing. Any chance you would be interested in these jobs? I love the work you did on Felix's Marlin :)

[MBTcustom]

Well this one is need of rebluing and to have a stock fitted. I also have a 300 Savage that's in need of the same thing. Any chance you would be interested in these jobs? I love the work you did on Felix's Marlin :)

LOL!
Holler at me sometime and we'll talk turkey.

[starmac]

I would NEVER do it to a 99, but they do make synthetic stock sets for them. I have seen pictures of a couple that have been done, and they actually look pretty good.

[dragon813gt]

I have two brand new Savage stocks for them. They aren't the old style as these are from the last production models they made.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Mobile/7E0F1A50-AAD5-40A5-AF97-D46E996144FC-9910-000005BEFA6D1621_zpsbfd26d3f.jpg

I didn't buy collectors so I'm making them what I want so I can carry them in the field for the next 40+ years(hopefully).

[fatnhappy]

Hot damn! I'd love to have that rear stock. I'm here to tell you my friends that doing bench work with a .308 winchester in a 99 with a steel butt plate is not conducive to fine shooting.

[Camba]

Fishman,
You are right! I had been trying the 77/357 rifle for some time and it shoots really great with J-bullets and not so well with PB cast SWC. Perhaps I need a different mold with a RN or RF boolit tip in 125gr? I will try that as soon as I order a new mold. I had been eyeing a Lee 6-cavity mold that will be used for both, the 357 mag and the 9mmP rouds.
I recently bought a 7mm Soup Can mold (Lee 6-cavity) and today, 3/9/2014, I casted a few so I can start testing them in the following guns:
1. Remington Model Seven, 20" BBL in 7mm-08 Rem
2. Browning BLR 81, 20" BBL in 7mm-08 Rem
3. Contender super 14 pistol in 7-30 Waters
I believe the Lee 7mm Soup can is about 130 to 135 gr and that may do the trick.

Since Reading the answers to this post, I had been actively pursuing the following guns but I am trying to find a good deal in used guns (which so far I have not seen yet).
1. A marlin 336 in 30-30 win (I would prefer the ballard type rifling instead of microgroove; unless that is just fine).
2. A savage model 340 in 30-30. I had seen one for sale in great conditions after modifications to stock and metal parts for about $330. Seem great but I am wondering why it had to be rebuilt that way.
3. The other gun I am being eyeing for a while is the Rossi Wizard in 308 Win (prefer in 7.62x39 but that option is not offered; unless you buy the barrel as extra.
4. I have seen a nice Remington 7600 in excellent conditions for about $780 in 30-06 Spr. Too high to change the bbl to 358 Win :)
I believe I will continue trying my 7mm-08 Rems for a while until the opportunity arrives.
Camba



Camba I think your two ruger 77's in .357 and .44 would be wonderful cast bullet shooters that meet your criteria. Best thing is that you already have them. For quite a few years I had only one rifle, a post '64 Winchester 30/30. It did just fine. I shot a lot that gun a lot and still like to, although I have a rifle for just about any day or whim now.

[MBTcustom]

Fishman,
You are right! I had been trying the 77/357 rifle for some time and it shoots really great with J-bullets and not so well with PB cast SWC. Perhaps I need a different mold with a RN or RF boolit tip in 125gr? I will try that as soon as I order a new mold. I had been eyeing a Lee 6-cavity mold that will be used for both, the 357 mag and the 9mmP rouds.
I recently bought a 7mm Soup Can mold (Lee 6-cavity) and today, 3/9/2014, I casted a few so I can start testing them in the following guns:
1. Remington Model Seven, 20" BBL in 7mm-08 Rem
2. Browning BLR 81, 20" BBL in 7mm-08 Rem
3. Contender super 14 pistol in 7-30 Waters
I believe the Lee 7mm Soup can is about 130 to 135 gr and that may do the trick.

Since Reading the answers to this post, I had been actively pursuing the following guns but I am trying to find a good deal in used guns (which so far I have not seen yet).
1. A marlin 336 in 30-30 win (I would prefer the ballard type rifling instead of microgroove; unless that is just fine).
2. A savage model 340 in 30-30. I had seen one for sale in great conditions after modifications to stock and metal parts for about $330. Seem great but I am wondering why it had to be rebuilt that way.
3. The other gun I am being eyeing for a while is the Rossi Wizard in 308 Win (prefer in 7.62x39 but that option is not offered; unless you buy the barrel as extra.
4. I have seen a nice Remington 7600 in excellent conditions for about $780 in 30-06 Spr. Too high to change the bbl to 358 Win :)
I believe I will continue trying my 7mm-08 Rems for a while until the opportunity arrives.
Camba

I believe that 7mm-08 is another sleeper.
That 336 you talk so much about. Ever heard of 7-30 Watters? [smilie=1:

[Camba]

Never seen a 336 in 7-30 waters. I heard about them. I bet they are collectibles.

[MBTcustom]

I suppose an old one might be considered a collectible. But they have always been custom rifles. Take it to your smith and have him sleeve it down to 7mm, or have him turn you a barrel blank. It's on my to do list. Gotta have me some of that.

[Camba]

Goodsteel,
How much does it cost to "sleeve" a barrel? Does it have to be bore out of the riflings and then drop the new "sleeve" in the smooth bore? Can you give me a good clue? It sounds very interesting but not knowing what that is, it is killing me! :)
Camba

[lead chucker]

I have a ruger compact with a PAC NOR 3 groove 1/14 twist 20 inch chambered in 308 win. It tack drives a lyman 311299 with 27 gr xmp 5744. It has never tasted a j bullet and probably never will.

[Andrew Mason]

I a planning on building a .405 Winchester on a British lee enfield,

I hope to shoot a 300-325 grain bullet at about 1,900-2,200 fps range, should work for pretty much everything in north America.