Shooting Steel

[ACrowe25]

I've never been interested in steel shooting... But after all the dang YouTube videos I want to try it out.

I see in eBay there is a guy who makes a ton of shapes/sizes at a decent price. Around $10 for a 8" plate that are knockdowns. It is NOT AR500 but is mild steel and he claims that it will last when being shot with 9mm/45s which is all I'll be using it for.

He claims that the safe distance is 15 yards (45 feet).

Ones the IDPA rule book (may not be current) says 7 yards...

Websites claim 10 yards.

Realistically how safe is this at 10 yards? Not sure if I'd be comfortable any closer. Obviously need to ensure no pitting... But can tell my father and significant other would really enjoy knocking down steel and for a price that cheap it can't be beat...

what do you guys think?

[Jupiter7]

You might wanna look at some of the shooting sport rulebooks. Uspsa, IDPA, 3gun nation and the such have defined rules for this.

[ACrowe25]

I've seen posts on other forums from google searches (unfortunately CB didn't come up!) and they quoted the rule book for idpa at a minimum of 7 yards.

[cbrick]

The NRA several years ago changed the distance from 25 to 40 yards for silhouette for 22 Rimfire because of splash back. In the big bore categories nothing is closer than 50 yards but even so I have been struck on the firing line from bullet fragments coming back from the 50 meter chickens. What happens is the targets become cratered, when a bullet hits the crater fragments come right back at the firing line. Safety glasses are mandatory on the firing line and an extremely good idea whenever shooting steel, rule book or not.

Back to the OP, I would worry about any target of mild steel. 9mm/45s will crater mild steel targets inside 15 yards and probably further out than that.

Rick

[sixshot]

The trick is to have the metal plate on a slight angle so the bullet deflects downward to the ground. You don't want any metal targets closer than 7 yds & make sure everyone is wearing safety glasses, everyone.

Dick

[gray wolf]

A lot depend on how the plate moves, by that i mean if the plate takes a hit and does mot move back it's like hitting a steel wall.
Depending on a lot of variable you could have some bullet come back. A plate that will swing as apposed to a static plate will absorb some impact pulse .
I have read a lot off web sights that sell steel targets and very few recommend less than what they consider a safe distance and that is most times 25 yards and then it is broken down into calibers and bullet type. Mild steel can show small pock marks from bullet impact
( the surface of the steel gets pock marked ) this can cause the bullets to come back in erratic fashion.
Truthfully speaking AR500 at least 3/8 thick is recommended for pistol and light magnum handgun also up to some rifle calibers, 223,308
It is said that when a plate shows divots from bullet impact it is unsafe to shoot.
I know many will say go for it, I wont, not when I may get hurt or hurt someone else. Look at some of the web sights that sell targets and see what they say. An 8" AR 500 plate can be had for about 30 BUX $$ Also welding and drilling on a plate can diminish the hardness, even on AR500
By far I am not an expert and I am sure others mo knowing than me about metals will chime in, what I have said is just what some knowing people have said and what i read. I found an old rusted 6" AR500 plate in usable condition and look forward to blasting it.

[TCFAN]

Spend the extra money and get the A500. I have both mild steel and the A500 and there is no comparison between the two as for cratering.I even have bought the A500 for 22RF steel plates.I like hanging plates with chains or rebar at a downward angle to prevent splash back at 7 to 10 yards. I like 3/8 inch thick plates but 1/4 inch will work with 22RF and mild 38 special loads..........Terry

[smkummer]

Mild 3/8" steel will work for 38, special, 9mm, 40 and 45. .357 full power jacketed magnums will start to put dents into the plates which will cause other bullets to bounce off in all directions. We shoot a lot of it at the Knob Creek subgun matches. Over a very very long time, the plates do start to crater and that is with some plus P plus 9mm going out at over 1200 FPS and thousands of hits. About a year ago, we had 60 plates set at 10 yards or more and with 180 shooters, once a piece of jacket came back and hit a bystander and she was bleeding from a surface cut. We moved the bystanders all back another 10 yards. And they all have to have eye protection to sit that close. We now probably use 12-13 yards minimum for now, again 10 works if the plate are flat and everyone is wearing eye protection. Never shoot at a plate that turns sideways.

[NSB]

The NRA several years ago changed the distance from 25 to 40 yards for silhouette for 22 Rimfire because of splash back. In the big bore categories nothing is closer than 50 yards but even so I have been struck on the firing line from bullet fragments coming back from the 50 meter chickens. What happens is the targets become cratered, when a bullet hits the crater fragments come right back at the firing line. Safety glasses are mandatory on the firing line and an extremely good idea whenever shooting steel, rule book or not.

Back to the OP, I would worry about any target of mild steel. 9mm/45s will crater mild steel targets inside 15 yards and probably further out than that.

Rick

Rick is right on with his comments. I have seen people who were hit with ricochets and splash back that required surgery to remove very large metal fragments from their sinus cavaites. I've seen glasses (not safety) with cracked lenses. I shot a lot of steel for about twenty years and I can tell you for a fact that regardless of all the BS you hear about shooting mild steel being safe, it's a crock. Get AR500 and stay back a safe distance. You only have two eyes and no one wants a lead slug going into their face or neck. I've been hit with splash back off AR500 with a piece big enough to give me a pretty serious laceration on my chest, right through my shirt.

[454PB]

For years I shot at a home made steel target set. The set had six 3/8" mild steel round targets that were 4" in diameter. They where first designed to "fall" when hit, then could be reset by a single pull of the handle. I learned right away that anything over 400 Ft. Lbs. would cause them to fall and bounce back up. .44 magnum and .454 Casull would cause them to bounce several times, and it didn't take long for the continual pounding to break welds. I modified it so the targets hung down from 1" heavy wall pipe mounted with a hinge mechanism so they could swing. During the many thousands of rounds I fired at this set up (always at a minimum of 20 yards) I was struck once by a flying piece of lead shrapnel that barely nicked my ear. I was wearing ear plugs, rather than muffs. Had I been wearing muffs, I wouldn't have felt it. This rig was set up in a large dug out area full of rocks and very little soil, but the ground directly under it was shredded by the boolits as they impacted and disintegrated. It appeared that the boolits were shattered and ejected 90 degrees from the impact point. I found a few quarter sized flattened slugs lying directly beneath the targets on occasion, but mostly dust.

.44 magnum and above put a pretty good dent in them, but the part that needed replacement most often was the 1" heavy wall pipes. They would actually bend if hit just wrong several times.

[earplug]

Find a Steel Challange shoot in your area.
Gives you lots of ideas and a whole lot of fun.

[Aunegl]

Shooting IHMSA is fun too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6xme4axGM8

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i use these AR500 $25.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-AR500-5-4-3-DIAMETER-STEEL-GONG-TARGET-SET-/370984317932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56606373ec

[fecmech]

A couple years ago a piece of one of my bullets came back off the 50 yd pig (mild cratered steel) and landed right next to the RO about 10 yds to my right. Caught some flack for trying to take the RO out. The AR500 is money well spent.

[35 Whelen]

I ONLY shoot steel on my range here at the house and ONLY with lead bullets. (Except for my 100 and 200 yd. targets which I allow to be shot with rifles and jacketed bullets) My targets range from 1/4" to 1/2" mild steel. Those that do not move are angled such that they deflect the bullets into the dirt. The remainder swing so as to eliminate bullets bouncing back. Over the last year I've fired a jillion .44 caliber 260 gr. SWC's running from 850 to near 1000 fps with no bounce backs.

I do intend to get a couple of AR500 targets for the 100 and 200 yd. range so my AR shooting buddies can have at them. The mild steel works OK but I do get tired of welding up bullet craters.

35W

[imashooter2]

I shot a steel challenge type game here in PA for a few years. Targets were 10 yards minimum. Hardly a match went by that I wasn't hit by some splash and I've been hit by some sizable chunks. Most vivid memory was a flat disk the size of a quarter that came back and hit me low, 2 inches left of the zipper. It stuck to my jeans and was searing hot as well as leaving a sizable bruise next to my genitals. After that, I always held my hand in front of my throat when I ROed.

[waco]

I laser cut 3/8" AR400 steel targets from work. Not quiet AR500 but they hold up to full power jacketed .308 loads without a ding in the plate at 300 yards. I choose not to shoot at them any closer just to save wear and tear. We hammer the same targets at 30-50 yards with all means of boolits with no ill affects.

[44man]

The force on steel is amazing. I had a 3/8" mild steel ram I shot at 200 meters with the .44 a lot. It hung from chains and turned into a salad bowl after a time. I laid it across wood blocks and wailed on it with a large sledge hammer to no affect at all. I just gave up and shot the other side, it straightened up!
I have a target holder at 100 yards made of 1/4" thick square steel tubing and it is shot full of holes from revolvers, some hits penetrating both sides. Just cast boolits.
I also have 1" thick plates and they get cratered from revolvers at 100 yards.
Slow boolits at close range can be more dangerous because the whole boolit can come back.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I'm in with 35 Whelen here. I shoot steel almost exclusively and only with lead boolits. Cowboy is sport of shooting steel and only lead boolits are allowed, not even gas checks or copper washed is allowed. No j-words.

Our local Sheriff's Office had steel targets during the revolver days with no problem but when we all went to wonder 9's one of the deputies got hit with a piece in the hip. He went to the Dr. and the x-ray showed the entire j-word was embedded. The Doc's said it was best to leave it in the hip. A lot of trees died over that one. All the old steel revolver targets which had worked for years were taken out. It's all paper on that range now.

Steel angled so that the rounds ricochet into the dirt (as these Sheriff's Office targets were) are not safe with anything but lead. The steel develops dimples from the impacts making the targets not safe. A plate angle down with dimples can send the j-word back at you.

Lead boolits are safe, I shoot it at 5-7 yards but Always wear eye protection. My steel targets are somewhat dimpled, once a guy with a rifle shot one of my steel targets with his AR. I have to have that dimple grinded out. But I get hit with fragments all the time. As Action Target says; Steel bites back.

I attended a presentation by Action Targets years ago at a conference, them boys at Action Targets really know their stuff. They sell targets you can use an AR or a .308 on but you have to follow all the rules.

I know a guy that runs a shooting school using steel targets, he grinds his targets to a smooth polish all the time and greases them. He has a pronounced angle to his targets, and his targets are angled when shot. His name is Jim Gregg, he also has a book which is a good read.

My steel targets are 12" soft steel that I have suspended on some stands that me and a local welder put together. I shoot them all the time and I get splattered but as long as I'm wearing eye protection I'm fine. Cowboy matches require low velocity rounds of lead. My loads are 240 - 250 grain lead boolits at 800- 850 fps. Rifle boolits can be 1,000 fps at cowboy matches but the targets are a little farther away. I'm perfectly safe shooting them but I would never use j-words on them.

A buddy of mine bought a target safe to take hits from AR's. This target is the size of an IPCS "A" zone. It weighs a ton. Where my .45 Colt steel targets are easy to handle and hang on stands made out of rebar, my buddy still hasn't been able to get a stand for this tempered steel AR target. In order to use it he will probably have to purchase the stand as well and that is expensive. It will be a very heavy system to set up. I can set up 5 of my steel targets and shoot them easy. I've learned that whatever you use, make it easy to repair because it will get damaged during use. There will always be that one guy that shoots the weak point and breaks it. You have to be able to fix it quick while other shooters are standing there waiting.

[KYCaster]

Spend the extra money and get the A500. I have both mild steel and the A500 and there is no comparison between the two as for cratering.I even have bought the A500 for 22RF steel plates.I like hanging plates with chains or rebar at a downward angle to prevent splash back at 7 to 10 yards. I like 3/8 inch thick plates but 1/4 inch will work with 22RF and mild 38 special loads..........Terry



I agree completely.

There is no "SAFE" distance to shoot steel. Given the right circumstances, it's possible for the bullet to rebound at nearly the same velocity as it struck. Shoot steel long enough and you'll be struck by rebounding fragments.

The set up Terry describes is the best way to reduce the danger. A hanging plate, free to swing will dissipate much more energy than a stationary plate. The forward slant will direct most of the splatter into the ground.

Check the E-bay link that LUCKYDAWG posted.....money well spent to get the better quality targets.

Jerry

Oh, one other thing......absolutely no steel core ammo, no matter what kind of steel the targets are made from.

[fecmech]

It hung from chains and turned into a salad bowl after a time. I laid it across wood blocks and wailed on it with a large sledge hammer to no affect at all. I just gave up and shot the other side, it straightened up!
I have a reduced size ram for Hunters pistol silhouette cut out of 3/16" mild steel that I shoot at 100 yds. When it cups bad in one direction I turn it around and shoot the other side. We've been back and forth 3 times now, at some point it will crack and break in half I think.

[Love Life]

Don't skimp. Buy AR500 from the get go. Do it right and do it safe. An 8 inch AR500 plate is quite reasonable. Look at Arntzen Targets.

[prs]

Another vote for Arntzen heavy armor plate. I use fairly soft alloy at velocities above starting loads and I sometimes shoot way closer than others here admit. The boolits basically voporize. But, do not do as I do, guns are dangerous. I have taken some hard hits from large fragments at SASS matches where some participants use commercial hard cast boolits in mouse phart loadings; bad Juju.

prs