Which mold for .30 Carbine?

[cpaspr]

Earlier this week I received an Amazon $25 gift certificate.

Did you know you can buy reloading stuff on Amazon? I didn't but I do now!

I want to use it to get a mold for my .30 Carbine. I'm considering either the Lee 311-100-2R or the C309-120-R. Should be able to size either one down to the necessary diameter, but I'm not planning on running gas checks, so I'm leaning toward the 100 grainer.

Thoughts? Other recommendations?

[Baja_Traveler]

My go-to mold for the 30 carbine is the 311359 and 11.5 grains of 2400. During our yearly D-Day commemorative silhouette match we use 30 carbines, and you'd be amazed that a round most would consider a plinker has the energy to take down a 200 yard ram - but it does so quite easily. I know you said you want to avoid gas checks, but this boolit is very accurate out of my carbine...

[avogunner]

I've never used those Lee molds and expect them to be ok but I will echo Baja on the 311359. An excellent choice for the carbine and perfectly paired with 2400. I size to .310 and use Rooster Red with great results in my 1943 Inland. I've shot a couple of hundred in a sitting and cleaning afterwards...not a speck of lead in the barrel or gas piston. Since I've used the last of my Rooster lube, I've switched to Carnuba Red but I expect the same great results.

[Cottonpicker]

Lyman 311359 gas checked & sized .309 over 6.5gr Unique in my IBM is what I use.Haven't shot any w/o GC.

[GabbyM]

Lyman plain base is the 311410. 130 grain bullet as you need the weight to create enough recoil impulse at the reduced velocities. Have it here and the 311359 gas checked 115 gr. Everyone says it's worth it to run the GC bullet.

[Echo]

LEE 120-2RGC has been the most accurate boolit in my Carbine, at least as accurate as ball. I never tried the -359, being satisfied with the Lee...

[cpaspr]

LEE 120-2RGC has been the most accurate boolit in my Carbine, at least as accurate as ball. I never tried the -359, being satisfied with the Lee...

Are you using them with gas checks?

[ShooterAZ]

LEE 120-2RGC has been the most accurate boolit in my Carbine, at least as accurate as ball. I never tried the -359, being satisfied with the Lee...

Same here, I size to .309 for my 44 Inland, and lube with White Label 2500+. I would NOT recommend using it without a gas check. Feel free to ask me why:)

[Larry Gibson]

cpaspr

but I'm not planning on running gas checks, so I'm leaning toward the 100 grainer.

If that is what you are doing then you're not asking much of your M1 Carbine and it probably will let you down. The 311410 at 120+ gr or the 311008 at 115 - 118 gr are about the best non GC'd cast bullets. They do well for reliable functioning while keeping the velocity down under 1600 fps for best accuracy. You can push them faster for sure if you are happy with "blastin' accuracy" of 5 - 6 moa at best. If you want top end performance of velocity with accuracy then you should go with the C309-120-R. Cast them of COWWs + 2% tin, size them at .309 or .310, lube with 50/50 alox lube and GC them. Load them over 12.5 - 13.5 gr H110 or 296 for 1850 fps or so. They will give you all the accuracy your M1 Carbine is capable of. If zeroed properly (POA = POI at 150 yards with rear sight at 1.5) that load will be regulated to the ranges out to 300 yards.

Larry Gibson

[cpaspr]

It is one of my funnest guns, so it looks like I'll need to get some gas checks. I'll get the 309-120R for now, and keep my eyes open for a 311359 sometime in the future. Or not, depending on how these shoot.

Thanks, all.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

You also might want to consider the RCBS 115 grain GC roundnose. It feed very reliably and generally casts at about .309-.310 with two grease/lube grooves. Like all RCBS molds it is limited to 2 cavity, but it does a good job. RCBS guarantee is solid behind it. LLS

[cpaspr]

Thanks again to all for the suggestions, but remember, I'm looking to use an Amazon.com gift certificate. There were no Lyman nor RCBS dies of the suggested shapes listed there, so for this purpose, I'll pass. Though I will add them to my wish list.

[Echd]

The Lee 120 has been very good in my experience.

Also a lot of fun in popcorn fart loads in plenty of other .30s also.

I use it with checks- I don't find the carbine to be the easiest thing in the world to load for, and it needs all the help it can get to be reliable with lead bullets. At least for me.

[cpaspr]

The Lee 120 has been very good in my experience.

Also a lot of fun in popcorn fart loads in plenty of other .30s also.

Yeah, shooting lightweight (for caliber) bullets can be a good way for children to start learning to shoot bigger guns, without the full kick of normal loads. When I was a kid my dad used to load Lyman 3118s for his .30-30. Twas fun as I recall. I don't have a .30-30 anymore, but my sister does. Hmm. I've got a bunch of 3118s cast. I've still got some .30-30 shells around here somewhere. Wonder what a good load would be for those to give to her?

[fcvan]

I bought the Lee C309-120 R for use in the 30 Carbine and it works great with IMR 4227. Back in the 1970s, dad bought a SAECO 321 (plain based 95 gr) for use in the 30 M1 but never cast a boolit from the mold. He'd bought a truckload of half jacketed 110 gr plinkers and so never cast with it. Nice boolit, SAECO molds are top flight, I recently cast a slew of them. Then I powder coated them. Then I loaded them. Now I need to test them.

I really like the heavier 120 boolit and I make 30 cal checks so that's not an issue. The lighter boolit should shoot great in both the Carbine and the BlackHawk, I just need a range day with my brother as he has an M1 carbine and I have dad's BlackHawk. Dad has loaned me the Ruger but he's still keeping careful watch over his beloved carbine. He lets me hold it every now and then :) but he sure won't part with it.

[bearbud]

As stated in earlier posts the GC boolit (309-120-1R) is a much better performer in the M1 carbine and I highly recommend it as the boolit mold to get. But, if you really don’t want to use GC you can still have fun with the M1. I did shoot a lot of the non GC boolits (311-100-2R) with decent results of both reliability and accuracy at 50 yards (in two Inland and one Winchester M1s). This is what I used with the 311-100-2R: boolit cast from 3:1 of ww : range scrap +2% tin. Boolit sized at 0.310” and lubed with White Label 2500+. Remington brass, WSR primer, COL 1.640”. Hercules & Alliant 2400: 9.2g (1480fps), 10.2g (1701fps), 11.1g (1840fps). bearbud

[zomby woof]

IMO the 311115 from NOE will give you the best accuracy. It will require a GC for optimum accuracy. It is a great cast rifle.

Good luck

[Artful]

Ideal 311316 is what I've used in the past... 120 grain FN GC design - I guess in the LEE line I'd look at the C309-113F as the round nose tends to sail through critters as opposed to the flatnose that knocks 'em for a loop.

[ShooterAZ]

The Lee 113F does not feed reliably in my M1. This is now the one I use for the cat sneeze loads in my other 30's.

[Artful]

That's to bad, I like a flat nose for effect on game - guess the 120 grn RN is the only option then.

[leadman]

The Lee 113gr feeds in 2 of my carbines but not the other. The Lee 120gr is very accurate in my carbines with GCs. For low cost GCs see 338RemUltramag in the vendor list. his aluminum checks work great and save alot of cash.

[ShooterAZ]

That's to bad, I like a flat nose for effect on game - guess the 120 grn RN is the only option then.

About the biggest game I will hunt with the M1 Carbine is Jack Rabbits and maybe a Coyote. I doubt if they would notice the difference. I just ordered the Forster 1/8" HP tool, and the LEE C309-120R is on the list to try out among others. Iv'e read mixed results on it, but I'm going to give it a try.

[dancingbear41]

I have two .30 Carbines. One a lever action and one a bolt. Things are a little different in the UK. Therefore I do not have to worry about pressure to operate a semi-auto. That said, I love this little round and mine live solely on a diet of cast bullets. I have found that pretty much all cast bullets will shoot well. I size to .310".

My moulds?

My standard is a five cavity Saeco #254 RN. The bevel base was removed when I bought it (eBay), professionally I might add, and it is a cracking mould.

H&G #250 GC RN 4 cavity.

Lyman 311459 2 cavity, an excellent bullet.

Lyman 311410 2 cavity.

Lee 113FN single cavity.

NEI 110 RN 4 cavity. A funny little round nose which looks all wrong when loaded, it's too stubby, but shoots a treat. A genuine Walt Melander mould.

Recently......

My first (and definitely not last) Accurate mould 115 grain FN 3 cavity brass mould. Amazingly accurate and casts beautifully.

And finally.....

MP mould 311410 4 cavity GC HP. An astounding mould. It casts superbly and is as accurate as it is good looking.

I think that is all. Making my own gas checks now so a new lease of life for some of the moulds I had stopped using. It's a fun little round.

Simon.

[Old School Big Bore]

Simon, what make is your .30 Carbine bolt gun? I'm intrigued...
I use the 311410 in my Blackhawk but after shooting some much-hyped LaserCast 110s in my hot-rodded Underwood and having to unsolder the tappet, I'm leery of running any more CBs through it til I get a suitable GC mold for it, and score some linotype and some kryptonite GCs and get some super lube from NASA or wherever...
I have worked up some J-word loads for it that have worked GREAT on the small TX Hill Country deer. I think if someone could make about a 125-140 gr Keith, the Blackhawk would be a viable CB deer gun.

[bstone5]

Has anyone shot a powder coated bullet with a cola can gas check in the M1 Carbine?

[dancingbear41]

Old School Big Bore,

My rifle is made by Armalon, www.armalon.com. It is based on an Enfield No.4 action. It has a 20" fluted barrel, cock on opening bolt and match trigger conversion. It takes standard M1 or M2 magazines. I had two Armalon carbines one in .45 ACP and their one and only .41 Magnum. It took me three years to persuade them they wanted to build one in .30 Carbine. They did and it is now one of their standard line up. Their guns are not cheap but their build quality and subtle little design features are excellent.

94187

Simon.

[Echd]

That's a cool gun, dancingbear. I wish we could get some of those new Enfields in the US, but bizarre import laws and restrictions keep them away. There were plans several years ago for an australian company to bring some in but the ATF canned it because of some parts made in Vietnam... or something to that effect. Really dumb, regardless.



Has anyone shot a powder coated bullet with a cola can gas check in the M1 Carbine?

I have shot GC'd PC'd bullets through mine with good reliability and ok accuracy. Can't say I've ever benched my M1 for real or anything, as long as it'll pop milk jugs and tin cans. I don't think it's phenomenally accurate, but it really is a gun I just like to blast with rather than do real target work.

[Artful]

Echd have you tuned your M1 Carbine?

I had a fellow come to a military match I set up - as long as it was an issue weapon you could use it - no modifications allowed.

He showed up with an M1 Carbine that he had tuned for his ammo - out Shot experienced High Power Shooter's with '03's, M1's, and M1A's.
We only had 200 yards total so never had problem with trajectory. Jeff took home the trophy and the money - and made a lot of sour faced rifle shooters with his little M1 Carbine.

[Artful]

dancingbear41 , Nice gun - if you ever take it down (out of the wood) I'd love to see some pictures of the action on your rifle.

Their 223 rifles look good too.
http://www.armalon.com/media/uploads/products/thumbs/61c0af5645294985f694aedac814d03879420022.JPG

[Echd]

Echd have you tuned your M1 Carbine?

I had a fellow come to a military match I set up - as long as it was an issue weapon you could use it - no modifications allowed.

He showed up with an M1 Carbine that he had tuned for his ammo - out Shot experienced High Power Shooter's with '03's, M1's, and M1A's.
We only had 200 yards total so never had problem with trajectory. Jeff took home the trophy and the money - and made a lot of sour faced rifle shooters with his little M1 Carbine.

My M1 Carbine is a postwar commercial model built on GI parts. I've replaced a few bits here and there with GI parts (had to get a new handguard and replace the piston), but I paid exactly $80 for it about 5 years ago, so I never expected too much out of it.

If they are capable of besting 03s and the like, I'd be surprised, but I'm not saying that they couldn't. They're tremendously fun little guns, but I'd be willing to bet the guy was just a phenomenal shooter.

If anything, at 200 yards I'd think the lack of really high quality jacketed bullets optimized to that size cartridge would be more of a hindrance than anything else. On second thought maybe the 125s shoot well in M1s, but I have no idea. I've only ever used cast, plated RNs, and halfjackets in mine.

I honestly don't know what could or would be done to "tune" one. Mine runs reliably with cast, which took a fair amount of fiddling with both internally and with load development, but I can't imagine what sort of accurizing work would take place.

[Artful]

Tuning NOT Accurizing - and it's done with just the front sling swivel tension adjustment to optimize the harmonic's of the barrel to the load.

Surprisingly effective.

found this link
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27034567/Accurizing-the-M1-Carbine

[Echo]

Are you using them with gas checks?

Indeed I am. I don't like the idea of using a GC boolit sans GC. Irrational, I know, but there we are...

[Old School Big Bore]

Wow, thanks, Dancing Bear. Wonder if they can sell the conversion parts and not the rifle...since we can't import them...hmmm...
The issue that caused the Carbine to get tagged as inaccurate is the shrink-fitted gas block. Putting a tight patch down the barrel, if your gas block is pinching the bore, you'll feel the tight place. A lot of them have this, and once the bullet is swaged down going through there it's looser in the remainder of the bore. All this problem needs is carefully lapping the bore and voila le good groups. Mine shoots GREAT and has surprised a lot of reduced-course highpower shooters.

[cpaspr]

Update. And questions.

I finally got some 309-120-R bullets cast up last weekend. Or was it two ago? I forget. Anyway, I just loaded three up for fit, varying COLs. Max COL is 1.680". At 1.673", the top lube groove is fully exposed, and the bullet is being jammed into the lands upon loading into the chamber. At 1.658", the middle drive band is completely covered, and the shell mouth is near the bottom of the top lube groove. Still jamming into the lands, by .050". Seating the bullet to 1.611", the mouth of the shell completely covers the top lube groove and just clears the bottom of the top driving band. No land marks after loading into the chamber. What has me concerned about this is that it appears to be compressing the load (12.0g of 2400). Hold on, I'll check the math.

The loose powder is .337" from the case mouth. The primed, sized shell is 1.288" long. The bullet is .693" long. At 1.611" COL, there is .370" of the bullet outside the case, so there is .323" inside the case. Which means there is .014" between the top of the powder and the bottom of the GC. So, not compressed. That surprised me; I thought sure it was compressing the load.

Anyway, logic appears to tell me I should load these to 1.611" COL, to cover that top lube groove. But does that cause too much pressure?

Help from the deep pool of collected wisdom here is requested. I won't shoot anything nor load any more till I hear back from y'all.

[leadman]

You want to make sure that the boolit does not jam into the lands so it will not fire out of battery. This boolit is very accurate in my carbines.

The Sierra 110gr HP is an amazingly accurate bullet out of one of my carbines. Will shoot moa or less at 100 yards. Carbine is scoped.

Good luck on your testing.

[cpaspr]

leadman - what OAL do you load the 309-120-R to? And everyone else?

[Forrest r]

The cramer #50 is an excellent bullet design/mold for the carbine. Have a mold that casts 125gr spir points and 115gr hp's.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/50amp51hp_zps5de7e5cd.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/50amp51hp_zps5de7e5cd.jpg.html)

forrest r

[WILCO]

Help from the deep pool of collected wisdom here is requested.

How do you know you're up against the rifling and not having a headspace issue?
What are you sizing the bullet to?

[cpaspr]

How do you know you're up against the rifling and not having a headspace issue?
What are you sizing the bullet to?

The bullets were sized to .308" (the only sizing die I have). I can see the marks left in the bullets by the lands on the longer COL rounds. I'm not sure what you mean by "having a headspace issue".

[WILCO]

The bullets were sized to .308" (the only sizing die I have). I can see the marks left in the bullets by the lands on
the longer COL rounds. I'm not sure what you mean by "having a headspace issue".

Cpaspr,

The .30 M1 cartridge is straight walled and it headspaces on the mouth.
If your cartridge is below the minimal trim length, you'll have headspace trouble.
Also, crimping can give you headspacing issues too.
I don't have any load data specifically for the LEE 309-120-R and OAL measurement.
That being said, I have data for the Lyman #311576 at 123gr. which is a similar bullet profile as the LEE.
Its OAL is listed as 1.610", so I think you'll be fine with your stated measurement of 1.611".
I've loaded a few .30 M1 cartridges using Hornady 110 gr. round nose FMJ's at the max. OAL of 1.680" without any issues and my original thought was that maybe your bullet nose had dropped from the mold being to large of diameter to chamber properly. After looking in a couple of different manuals, I realized it's an issue of bullet profile when compared to the other lead bullets.
Just for the record, I have used a minimal crimp when loading the FMJ's without any issues also.

[cpaspr]

Agreed. I've loaded FMJs to 1.678" just fine. The 309-120-R is straight (or near enough to hit the lands) for .555" of it's total length, whereas the FMJ I just measured is .455" for the same dimension.

[308Jeff]

I know I'm bringing a 2-1/2 year old thread back, but this is by far the most informative one I've read on cast bullets for the 30 Carbine.

Don't know if much has changed since then, but seems like PC'ing has overcome a lot of the issues regarding non-gas checked bullets.

I'd love to hear from someone who's casting and powder coating a non-GC'd bullet for their M1 Carbines and having a lot of success with it.

BTW, Dancingbear41, that's one of the neatest rifles I've ever seen.

[zomby woof]

I'm using the NOE 311115 PB boolit with Hi-tek coating. Works great.

[avogunner]

Since my post here from a couple of years ago, I've acquired another great carbine mold - a Lyman 311576. It's 120gr RN and was designed specifically for this round. I use either 2400 or H110 and am getting very acceptable results. Perfect feeding/functioning but does have a bit of point of impact difference than my 311359 load.
This is 50 yds.
184740
Semper Fi.

[308Jeff]

I'm using the NOE 311115 PB boolit with Hi-tek coating. Works great.



Since my post here from a couple of years ago, I've acquired another great carbine mold - a Lyman 311576. It's 120gr RN and was designed specifically for this round. I use either 2400 or H110 and am getting very acceptable results. Perfect feeding/functioning but does have a bit of point of impact difference than my 311359 load.
This is 50 yds.
184740
Semper Fi.

Thank you, both of you. Are either of you using gas checks? What BNH are you casting?

[avogunner]

Thank you, both of you. Are either of you using gas checks? What BNH are you casting?

Yes, I use checks on both the 311359 and 311576. The BHN of my rifle alloy is about 13.5 (Lee Hardness tester). A couple of years ago, I scored a goodly amount reclaimed shot. This had been sitting in a barrel outside for quite a few years so was heavily oxidized so as no use to shotgun reloader. Anyway, my target BHN was 13 so using Bumpo's alloy calculator, I mixed a pound of 63/37 solder to 24lbs of this shot and got a great casting alloy that hit my BHN target almost right on the nose. That calculator is a valuable tool.
Semper Fi.

[cpaspr]

Yes, I'm resurrecting this dormant (dead) thread. But it was mine to begin with.

Re-reading it, it appears I never followed up with how the 309-120-R boolits did in my .30 Carbine.

Loaded with 12.0 gr of 2400 they shot exactly the same as factory 110 gr jacketed. So I am one happy camper! A big thank you to Larry Gibson for assistance getting the powder charge right.
__________

Earlier I mentioned the possibility of loading up some of the 3118 bullets I got from my dad for use in a .30-30. When I started this thread back in 2014 I no longer had a .30-30 rifle. That situation changed in 2016, but the gun needed some work (refinishing of the stock, and fitting of a tang peep sight), and I haven't shot it since the peep was added last year.

I loaded up some of the 3118s a couple of days ago and was intending to test them out this evening. BUT, last night I loaded them into the gun to test functionality. They won't feed. Oh, they'll go in the chamber and extract just fine, but they won't feed using the lever action. Seems to be the same problem I had using them in the .30 Carbine - the nose runs into the breach face. Before I decide for sure that that's actually the problem I'm going to load and cycle some factory rounds. If they feed correctly, I'll know it isn't because I screwed up something when I had the gun apart for refinishing the stock.

If the factory rounds cycle correctly, I'll load up a few test rounds with the 309-120-1R and see if they cycle. If they do, I'll test them for accuracy.

[cpaspr]

Aanndd . . . .

Factory rounds still cycle fine. And the 309-120-1R cycle fine in the .30-30.

So, for me at least, the 3118s my dad made are a waste of otherwise good lead. Back in the pot they go, to turn in to usable boolits!

[lightman]

I've shot a lot of the Lyman 311410 cast from clip on wheel weight alloy and lubed with whatever lube I have at the time. Back when I tried to compete in High Power I would load these down to pistol velocity and practice my positions in the indoor pistol range during the off season. The sights and trigger on the Carbine are similar to the M-1 and M-1A that I competed with. I used a loaded FMJ Carbine round as a guide for seating the bullet.

[cpaspr]

One last followup, and I'll let this one lie (maybe-since I seem to keep resurrecting it).

I played with the seating depth for the 3118s in the .30-30 shells. When they refused to feed using the lever action I was seating them a bit deeper, but if I seat them only to the crimp groove (who'd a thunk), they feed fine using the tube magazine and the lever as intended. So, now I have good plinking loads for both of my lightweight old rifles. :bigsmyl2: