rlb's first group with 500 S&W bullets out of a new rifle

[idahoron]

Rich is a member here and goes by rlb, and I am sure he will jump in. He sent me a picture to post of his first group with the Lee 500 S&W bullet. I know he shot it with a Lyman GPH rifle. But I am going to let him add to this thread with his load. Here is the picture of his group. Congratulations on the group and I am sure it will only get better as you work on it. That is a great first three shot group from a new rifle. Good Job. Ron

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Richsfirstthreebullets500SampW_zps96b3dca1.jpg

[rlb]

Thanks Ron.

50 yds.
I loaded according to Ron's directions, except I weighed each charge. It was 65.5 gr weighed,80 gr measured, of Pyrodex P, Ox Yoke felt wad, it's all I have, and the bullet is patched with some notebook paper out of an address book. I have the right paper and felt coming, but I just couldn't resist tinkering. The bullets weren't weight sorted and some of them were kinda ugly. I do believe that with some good sorted bullets this rifle is going to be a tack driver. I'll keep at it and hopefully I'll be able to keep minute of deer accuracy out to the 200 yd mark in case I might need it.

[johnson1942]

rlb, i think you have it right now and your group proves it. ron thanks for posting the picture. im always looking for feed back on pp bullets and you guys made my day. think ill break out the .45 fast twist and shoot some dirt clumps out in the field off the deck rail today. thanks again.

[cbashooter]

i have used an old Ideal bullet for the 50-110 Express 300g bullet with good luck in my 1-32 Investarms 50's non patched just lubed with BW and Olive Oil.Notas good as those groups but 5 into 1.5" at 50 anyhow.

[idahoron]

This was a great start. I am sure when you got the onion skin it will do even better. Your doing well enough I don't think your going to need me to send any bullets to shoot. Make sure after you get your paper you let us know how they fit, and how they shoot. Great start. Ron

[rlb]

Well, I think the paper and felt are at the house. Unfortunately I am in Tremonton, UT. tonight. I'll get home tomorrow afternoon and get some bullets patched and hopefully get a few shots in on Sunday.

[chickenmcnasty]

I'm very impressed with what you guys are doing with these rounds. I'm interested to know more about the details of the load and how they perform at longer yardages.

[rlb]

Oh, when I get it figured out we'll stretch it out a ways. We have close to a mile of range so the sky's the limit for a muzzleloader.

[idahoron]

I'm very impressed with what you guys are doing with these rounds. I'm interested to know more about the details of the load and how they perform at longer yardages.

I have been shooting these bullets for many years now. I have seen lots of deer,elk, and Antelope killed with them. I have my rifles sighted in out to 300 yards. I don't take a first shot at an animal over 150. The farthest shot I have taken a deer at was just over 120 yards. I saw my buddy shoot this mule deer at over 120 yards and the bullet crushed the shoulder and exited the flank. I have only found one of these 500 S&W bullets. I shot a cow in 2013. I hit her in the shoulder and I found the bullet in her hind quarter. After the hit she went about 20 yards and piled up. She died so quickly that I didn't have time to get fully loaded. These bullets have proven them self's on target at long range out to 300 yards. They have more than proven them self's on all game under 150 yards. I just have never tried to shoot an animal with them way out there, but I am sure they would do the job. I haven't seen them fail yet. I have not lost or know of anyone that has lost an animal with these bullets. Ron

[johnson1942]

thanks ron for helping tell of the value of a paperpatched bullet. their are numerous 1/28 twist .50 cal guns out their in one form or another. many shooter like to be more independent and do their own bullet makeing for their gun. what could be better than cast your own paperpatch. im glad their is another paperpatch shooter out. i my self am waiting for a new base punch for my .50 cal swageing die and im going to do alot more testing on the chase patch system. i finally got my big .50 settled down with that system and i think the new base design will give me even better results. im not trying to change shooter from the double wrap system but just give them options on a cranky gun. ill make a post with pictures and all when it comes together later this year. thanks again ron for being a good leader in paperpatching for us all.

[Good Cheer]

Whew! Survived Milwaukee. Took an hour and a half to go ten miles.

Ron,
I'm chiming in here just to say it's great to see somebody take relatively stock components and, well, make them sing.
:drinks:

[TCLouis]

"I have the right paper and felt coming in"

From the looks of that target, I would say it looks like you have the right stuff already.

[rlb]

All that paper was was some note paper out of a monthly planner. The onion skin paper is working much better. I got a group almost that small at 100 with it.

[Omnivore]

Hmm. Other than telling us you're using Pyro pistol powder and some paper, you haven't told us how you load this bullet. Lee says it's a .501" diameter bullet, which I would think would already be tight in the bore without the paper. Does that mean you're sizing the bullet down, or is your GPH bore much larger than I think it is. There are a lot of words in this thread so far, and some nice stories, but scant little in the way of the kind of specifics that would allow someone to duplicate this loading process.

[rlb]

The bore on the rifle is .502". The bullet drops at .501" with lead. Then I wrap them and size them. The lead springs back a bit so it's nice and snug in the bore. The bullet does size down some, I think Ron said that they gain .008" with the paper, so when it goes through the die the lead gives and the paper doesn't give as much. I think the bullet is around .498" or so after sizing.

The paper.
http://www.thepapermillstore.com/paper-store-24-7-onion-skin-white-paper-8-1-2-x-11-in-9-lb-bond-smooth-500-per-ream.html

The cap is a RWS 1075 plus #11.

I swab with windex and a couple of dry patches between shots. I weigh the charges. Seems to be more consistent. I never really shot muzzleloaders until now. It's a new adventure. idahoron is to blame for all of this. He has been a lot of help and he is more than willing to share his knowledge. He's done the testing and now we get to reap the rewards of his hard work. We owe Ron a lot.

[johnson1942]

omnivore, im glad rib gave you specifics. he is right on when you end up with .498 for most .50muzzleloaders. i think it doesnt make a diff if you size before or after patching as long as you end up at about .498. i dont know why, but that size bullet feels tighter then .498 when it goes down, it may be springback or the lube, or drag on the paper but it seen to be just right. hope rib makes some more converts as a lot of good rifles out their that can shoot paperpatch.

[idahoron]

Hmm. Other than telling us you're using Pyro pistol powder and some paper, you haven't told us how you load this bullet. Lee says it's a .501" diameter bullet, which I would think would already be tight in the bore without the paper. Does that mean you're sizing the bullet down, or is your GPH bore much larger than I think it is. There are a lot of words in this thread so far, and some nice stories, but scant little in the way of the kind of specifics that would allow someone to duplicate this loading process.

I will give you my loading data. The Lee C-501-440-RF will come out of my mould at .501 and right at 458 grains with lead that is hardened to .035 on the Cabine Tree Tester or between 6 and 7 BHN. I use 25% cotton onion skin paper. That is very hard to find now so the link that Rich gave is a good replacement. After wrapping the bullets the paper will add about .005 to .006 then I size them with a Lee .501 sizer die. I do this dry because lube will degrade the paper. I like to size after because it seems to fold the paper and keep it tight to the bullet.
I use 80 gr of Pyrodex P with a over powder was that is between .62 and .64 in diameter. I like these large ones because the tend to pucker a bit and they seal great. I use a pinch of Bore butter to protect the wad. The bullets in my stainless tend to go down tight. I don't use any lube on the paper but I have seen some barrels that need it to get them down.
At the first of this post I said lube can degrade the paper. If you lube the paper and size it then wait to shoot them the bullet will push through the bottom of the paper. But lubing right before you shoot does not seem to negatively affect the bullet. I have not tested lube on bullets for accuracy. I don't use lube so I didn't test them.
Ron

[idahoron]

omnivore, im glad rib gave you specifics. he is right on when you end up with .498 for most .50muzzleloaders. i think it doesnt make a diff if you size before or after patching as long as you end up at about .498. i dont know why, but that size bullet feels tighter then .498 when it goes down, it may be springback or the lube, or drag on the paper but it seen to be just right. hope rib makes some more converts as a lot of good rifles out their that can shoot paperpatch.

The size my bullets need to be is .496 . Ron

[rlb]

^What he said^ Ron gets all of the credit for my results. He is the teacher here and I can only follow his instruction for now. Someday I will venture out and do some of my own experimenting, but for now it's listening to the master.

[Good Cheer]

Some results indicate that sizing after patching can remove a little expansion space that has to be taken up when the powder charge goes off. That might remove some shot to shot variability. Like when thinner paper is used in easier going target loads.