44 revolver throats

[ktw]

I got started in big bore revolvers about 20 years ago with a 45 colt. I never ventured outside that cartridge. I learned to deal with big throat issues.

I always believed the conventional wisdom that 44's were easier than 45's because there was less variability with the factory throats and throat to bore relationship.

Tonight I took a Lyman 429421 mold for a spin and ended up with .4290-.4300 boolits in straight WW alloy. I compared them to the only 44 Mag I currently have access to, an old 3 Screw Super Blackhawk that a buddy of mine left here a while back. Turns out this SBH has .432 throats.

So now I'm wondering if this SBH is an anomaly, or whether there is much variation in throat size among factory 44 guns. I've had my eye on one of those USFA SAAs and was thinking of getting one someday in 44 spcl. If I have to go through the same old 'find a mold big enough' to fit a factory 44 throat, screw it, I'll just stick with 45 Colts. I have a decent selection of molds for that already.

What I'm looking for here is some feedback on the range of 44 throat sizes you have run across in factory guns in your collection.

-ktw

[454PB]

It's not an anomaly. Of the dozen .44 magnums and several .44 Specials I own or have owned, most had throats of .431" to .432". Not a big deal if your moulds cast large enough, but nearly all my Lyman/RCBS cast .430 in WW alloy. I do have several Lee moulds that cast .432".

The easy, lazy, quick solution is to use a gas checked design.

[9.3X62AL]

The current 44's--a Redhawk x 5.5" and a S&W M-624 x 6.5"--both are serviced well with .431" castings. The Redhawk ranges from .430"-.4305", the S&W from .430" to .431". Past throat specs in now-departed revolvers have run from .429"-.432" in Colt, Ruger, and S&W revos. My #429244 gets to .431"--barely--and the #429421 gets to .432". Life is good, in other words.

[S.R.Custom]

I always believed the conventional wisdom that 44's were easier than 45's because there was less variability with the factory throats and throat to bore relationship.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/images/smilies/HistericalSmiley.gif


I've owned 3 or 4 Ruger SRHs over the years, and more SBHs than I can remember. They all have had throats at least .432". I've had more Smith & Wessons than Carter's has pills, and all of them have had oversize throats to varying degrees. Even the vaunted pre-29 five screw I had slugged at .4315 to .432... Shortly before they closed the New Haven Plant, I had to send a Winchester 94 Trapper back to the factory because the barrel slugged .438". (!!!) No lie! Rifling wouldn't even engrave a Hornady XTP, and it would keyhole at 20'.

There were/are two notable exceptions. One was a late 90s Custom shop 629 that had undersize throats at 428". WooHoo! But I had to hog 'em out to .431" because the bore slugged out at .430". Doh!

The other one is the only .44 of any variety I have ever owned that was dimensionally correct. This one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=83749961

I got this gun a few weeks ago, and it is an absolute joy to shoot. Chambers slug out at .429" and the bore slugs out at .4275". Bore/chamber alignment is spot-on, the cylinder gap is no more than .004", and the timing is... exquisite. After 153 years, Smith & Wesson finally got one right. And no, you can't touch it. :mrgreen:

In short, if you're looking for dimensional joy, it ain't here. Stick with what you know.

[Bass Ackward]

I have seen Dragoons up to .435, but the bore was generally in the area. My personal average on factory guns has been .002 to .003 for well over 30 guns over the years.

[44man]

Very true about Rugers. Mine has .4324 throats and a .430 bore. I have never had any accuracy problems with any bullet/boolit. I use a .431 size die but it also shoots .430 jacketed like a house afire.
I would not worry about it.

[BD]

Gotta love my DW shop chambered Dan Wesson. The throats are all .430 +/- .0001, bore is .429 with nary a tight spot. Alignment will pass a "match" range rod in every chamber but the barrel has to be really clean and lightly oiled to do it. And, of course the cylinder gap is adjustable. The DW shop chambered the cylinder and honed the chamber mouths to match my 265 grain WFN mold for $75 including shipping. I wish I could shoot as good as that gun does.
A very good ending to the story of a poorly chambered cylinder from the factory.
BD

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess the thing you have to keep in mind is that throats slightly large arent a real big deal unless there real big. Its the small throat big bore that cause the biggest accuracy problems. Ive yet to have a smith or a ruger 44 mag that wasnt a good shooter some exceptional shooters and i cant say the same for smith or ruger .45 colts ive owned.

[ktw]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I was able to tape out the mold and get .4315x.4330 on one batch of boolits. I will load up both sizes and give them a try in the SBH. I am going to hone out a sizing die to 4320 first.

-ktw

[lathesmith]

A dimensional variation of .002-.003 is usually something that can easily be dealt with. As others have stated, with chambers up to .002 or so LARGER than your bore, you should have no problems getting a good shooter. The problem is when you have a .006-.008 dimensional variance, as is the case with my S&W 25-5. I haven't given up on this old gun, but it is going to take some physical parts-switching to correct S&W's intentional mistake. Stay tuned....
lathesmith

[fecmech]

My SBH is a 3 screw from about 1970 with .434 throats and .429 groove. Until I tried light special loads I did'nt even know it cause my .430 boolits were evidently bumping up at mag pressures. Using .44 spec loads and pressures the gun leaded to beat hell. I "beagled" my mould, got a .433 sizer die and all is right with the world.

[nicholst55]

I currently own three .44s - 2 Mags (Rugers) and 1 Spl (S&W). One Ruger runs .432", and the other varies between .430-.431". The S&W runs a uniform .432". I plan to have the one Ruger opened up to a uniform .431" a bit later on.

[Swagerman]

This gives me a lot of hope for my Taurus model 441 in .44 special, it has .434 throats and .429 barrel.

454PB has a similar revolver and he's getting good results with .432 cast bullets and the ones that are slightly smaller with gas checks.

Have been building up some dies to size and swage .432 bullets. However, old man winter has me as a shut-in until next spring...so, won't be doing any testing until that time.

Also own a couple of other S&W .44 specials that have .431 and .432 throats.

If only I had an underground basement shooting range of at least 20 yards, I could wave the middle digit at old man winter...gotta win the lotto or something.

Jim

[kooz]

The factory Rugers that I have owned over the years have all been .432

[gregg]

SBH .433 .433 barrel does shoot lead well if sized right. Was lucky as a kid because mold I bought same time 429421 was just as big. Luck of the draw. I knew if I sized them .429 it would lead. If I did not it shot well . As a kid I did not know why. duh
S&W Mt . I think .430
Uberti 44WCF X2 .430
Rossi 92 44 WCF .431
Now how about DW 315 357 with .360 chamber mouth and .355 barrel . Does not like lead.
Saur SA 357 .360 Does shoot lead well

[MtGun44]

My only SBH has .432 or .433, IIRC. As to the S&Ws, I have 4 'new production'
S&W revolvers and the 3 .44s are all .430, and the 586 is a perfect .358"
on all 7 holes. In my experience, the current S&Ws are the finest overall quality
that they have ever made. Not the finest finish, not the best polish and blue,
but overall (dimensions, durability, metallurgy, features) they are really top notch.
By 'new production', I mean made in the last 5 years or so.

Bill