let's talk about the dreaded tinsel fairies

[amosfella]

I've been reading through this forum, and CGN, and one thing I see a lot when dealing with melting scrap lead is warning about the tinsel fairy visits. So, I thought I'd share a bit of knowledge from my days using lead for separation of metals to help make it a thing of the past for my readers.....

So, a tinsel fairy is caused by a steam bubble forming below the surface of, in this case, molten lead. As water and many other liquids going from liquid to gas phase expand around 1000 times (just an illustration number, science junkies) in volume, the rapid changing of the phase of the foreign liquid to gas causes an explosion of molten metal. How severe of an explosion depends on the amount of liquid, and the rate of phase change.

If you are like many folk who recycle wheel weights, you probably have experienced this phenomenon. It can scare you $hitless in no time flat. You might find lead all over your clothes, and a non lead brick in your pants, and a warm, wet feeling trickling down your leg... I personally believe that the size of the explosion multiplied by how easily you startle will determine the extent of the visceral reaction a tinsel fairy has on your bodily functions.

Can these brick forming, ill described fairy monsters be tamed?? The answer is yes. When metal refiners are melting scrap down, rarely do they just toss a bunch of scrap in a pail and turn the heat up to max. Generally they will run the scrap through an incineration process to burn away all the oil, water, paint, and other things that can cause a small explosion.

What does this involve??? you ask. Good question. Being more specific than general metals, lead melts at a lower temperature than many of the other recycled metals, but in wheel weight scrap, is generally mixed with oil. There are two ways to easily go about it. For both of these methods, the easiest way is to get a one piece body stainless steel pail from a place like Princess Auto. They have one that's about 2.5 gallons. Perfect for the job. One piece means that there is no soldered on bottom on the pail. It can have a handle, etc.

The first method is probably the cleanest. You add a layer of weights about 3-4 deep, and you have a weed burner torch attached to you propane bottle with which you lightly scorch the weights. This might cause the paint the fall off the weights quickly. It depends on the weight type. Add another layer that deep, and repeat until the pail is about 3/4 full. Then you can melt that.

One can also fill a pail 3/4 full and melt it with direct application of flame from the top. It greatly speeds up the beginning process of melting on a burner, etc.

deleted

Once you've done one of these two steps to the lead, the weights should be a lot safer to add to your molten melt. If you're using gas, and you come across liquid after burning, if it's unburned gas, burn again.

I prefer the weed burner method as it's dry, and generally don't add solid lead to the molten. I will fill a stainless pail almost full of wheel weights, then I melt from both the top with a weed burner and bottom at the same time. Once an inch or so of molten lead is in the bottom, it really melts quick. The direct heat from the weed burner is much more effective than conductive heat in starting a pail to melt. Conductive heat is more effective after there is a layer of a certain thickness on the bottom to conduct the hear through the material being melted.

I don't really worry that much about zinc, as it really easy for me to deal with. But I do sort the weights, and keep the zinc and steel weights separate from each other. I have other uses for zinc. I pick out the clips and keep them with the steel weights to sell to the recycler. Zinc I have other uses for, so I do try to keep that separate.

I hope this helps increase safety.

Happy and safe casting.

[sqlbullet]

I guess my method of late is similar. I heat the cast iron pot while I sort through the lead and prioritize what is going in the first batch. Then I add it to the pot. Lid and wait about 5-10 minutes for the bottom to heat. Generally in this time nothing melts yet, just gets up to about 250-300 degrees at the bottom of the pot.

Then, in goes about 1-2 cups of waste motor oil, a "chimney" made from some 6" vent pipe about 4' long is moved into place. It interfaces with the pot in such a way as to create an opening at the bottom large enough for most of the lead scraps I will be adding to the pot. Once the oil smoke good, I flame it with a torch. Temps go up VERY fast, and anything in the upper part of the pot that might be an issue evaporates very quickly. I continue to feed the top of the pot lead without letting it get to the liquid phase until I am done adding the first batch.

Safely heats, and fluxes as it melts.

In general, I think the best advice though, especially when dealing with the occasional batch of WW, is to carefully sort, load the pot and lid it, and let it heat. Lid increases efficiency, and protects against the tinsel fairy. If you are concerned with zinc and want to regulate temp you can drill and tap the lid for a screw in thermometer probe and monitor the melt temp.

[geargnasher]

Three simple rules for me:

Start each melt from ambient temperature.

Don't put anything under the surface that can boil.

Use a heavy lid.

Gear

[BNE]

Three simple rules for me:

Start each melt from ambient temperature.

Don't put anything under the surface that can boil.

Use a heavy lid.

Gear

+1 what he said.

[dikman]

Thanks for that, amosfella, very interesting but it seems like a lot of unnecessary work. This has been discussed in many threads, as you doubtless know, and the general consensus appears to be just make sure there is no molten lead in the bottom of the pot, dump in the lead scrap and start raising the temp. Works for me (and my last lot of range scrap was pretty damp from washing it off!). Lots of hissing and steaming, but no pops or bangs. A lid is probably a good idea, but I don't have one big enough for my pots (yet) so don't bother. Bottom line is having an understanding of the process and a decent application of commonsense and there shouldn't be any problems.

As for using gasoline, no thanks. Yes, I can see how your method could help, but if you throw in the gasoline and, for whatever reason, don't ignite it straight away then it has the potential to become rather explosive. I wouldn't be too keen on suggesting this idea to newcomers to the gentlemanly art of smelting - they could end up with more than singed eyebrows.

[tengaugetx]

To me working with raw gas is more dangerous than the smelting process.
It can be so much easier.
I just pour them all in my smelting pot with no molten lead in the bottom. Bring the temp up slowly and stir/lift from the bottom of the middle to the top. The lead will melt the iron and zinc will end up on top of your molten lead. Scop out the clips, iron, and zinc. Flux a few times, reduce with wax once and pour into ingots.

[amosfella]

I know that the gas can seem like a bad idea, and it's definitely not my preferred one. I think that warming the lead over with a weed burner is a much better idea, but the gas works in a pinch. The amount is so low that it wouldn't cause problems. It's only one cup, and won't be enough to cause an explosion.
I much prefer to start a fresh pot each time, but as my time is limited, I like to get it done as fast as possible. So, I warm both the top and bottom as fast as I can to get the lead flowing downwards.
But there are people who insist on putting wheel weights into already molten lead. They think it is faster to melt that way. This was written for them.

[tengaugetx]

I know that the gas can seem like a bad idea, and it's definitely not my preferred one. The amount is so low that it wouldn't cause problems. It's only one cup, and won't be enough to cause an explosion.
.

I was at deer camp with some friends several years ago. A friend of mine was lighting the campfire with his bic lighter and said almost those exact same words....just before he lost his eye brows.

[357maximum]

Properly/improperly applied a gallon of gasoline has more POTENTIAL ENERGY than a pound of dynamite....just some food for thought.

[doghawg]

I have a lot of to say about that gasoline suggestion....based on vivid memories of an event on a November morning 23 years ago that resulted in 2nd and 3rd degree burns, skin grafts, etc.

Just bring the lead up to temp slowly. Cold lead into a cold pot. I've melted lead water pipe that was still wet inside with no problems.
Leave the gasoline in the can.

[amosfella]

Deleted about the gasoline. I have used that myself, but flicking matches is the way I did that. Even though I prefer to to use the weed burner...

[btroj]

Three simple rules for me:

Start each melt from ambient temperature.

Don't put anything under the surface that can boil.

Use a heavy lid.

Gear

I agree except I don't start at ambient temp. I add to a hot pot but not one with molten lead in it. Kind of hard to spew molten lead when no molten lead is present.

Use the safety equipment God put between your ears, it works wonders.

[C. Latch]

Once upon a time a long time ago, I spent 10 days in the hospital due to an incident with gasoline. I'll pas son smelting with it.

I'm very much a small-time caster, I still smelt and cast out of the same pot, but when I smelt I start with an empty pot, fill it with weights that have been checked with side-cutters, and heat it up and empty it completely before starting another batch. I won't say it's foolproof but it's pretty close.

[dikman]

Good man, amosfella, for deleting the gasoline reference. It's one of those things that can work, if you know what you're doing, but there's always the potential for someone who doesn't understand to try it and then cause themselves an injury. No-one wants them to say "well, I read it on Castboolits so it should have worked"!

[amosfella]

I will say that I used the gas method, and it was better than nothing. But my circumstances were different. Was necessary, and a tinsel fairy when you've got a lot of gold and other precious metals in the lead is very very expensive... But I also realize that a lot of readers might not know how to handle the gas properly, and do something else that was wrong and get hurt.
However, the rest of the advice is sound...

[boog]

I imagine that gasoline in a hot pot would evaporate quickly and have a huge flame up. Glad you deleted it.

Water evaporates at a lower temperature than lead melts. I'm still new to casting, but starting with a cold or empty pot sounds like the best thing to do for a newbie.

[Jon]

Pretty much this.

Start each melt with ambient or near ambient temperatures so that there is no liquid lead in the pot.

[Defcon-One]

Three simple rules for me:

Start each melt from ambient temperature.

Don't put anything under the surface that can boil.

Use a heavy lid.

Gear



+1 what he said.

I am with them. It is kind of like beating a dead horse with a dull hammer.

Enough is enough!

We get it!

[Bigslug]

I agree except I don't start at ambient temp. I add to a hot pot but not one with molten lead in it. Kind of hard to spew molten lead when no molten lead is present.

Use the safety equipment God put between your ears, it works wonders.

I would modify this by simply saying: Add cold lead to an empty hot pot, and then simply WALK AWAY until it's melted. My pot has no lid, but I fold up a few layers of aluminum foil and press it over the top to help it heat faster. At that point, I just WALK AWAY. Miss Tinsel can't get you if you're not around when she calls.

There is a temptation to add lead as the lumps melt and make more room in the pot, and also to leave some liquid lead in the pot for "seed heat" on the next batch. If it's stuff that's reasonably clean and been in storage for a long time, I'm OK with this. If I suspect water or grease, it gets an empty pot. At the end of the day, maybe you've re-filled the pot a few extra times and taken a little longer because of this, but you aren't covered in molten metal either.

Even range scrap that you know is clean can have it's pitfalls. Stray live rounds or primers are one. Leftover boolit lube is another. None of that is stuff you want instantly jumping to 700 degrees. Start it cold and WALK AWAY.

[Walter Laich]

Going to echo everyone's idea of cold pot to start.

[amosfella]

Something that I found to do last few pots that is so simple, and will probably save propane, melt only enough to fill your molds that you have, then start melting again while the molds are cooling. This seems to save a lot of time and gas. One the last few pots, not including sorting, it seemed to decrease my time spent per ingot by 25-30%.

[JSnover]

I start with so much cold scrap, the lid rests an inch or two above the pot. By the time the pile starts to melt, all the moisture has cooked off, the spiders have bailed out. Any additional scrap is preheated before it goes in. I've only been casting for 5 years but have never met the tinsel fairy.

[762 shooter]

I think this needs to be clarified, once and for all. There is only one Tinsel Fairy. She has silver gray hair and can be everywhere at once. Just like Santa Claus. Not fairies, just fairy.

Whew, I feel better now.

762

[myg30]

I am with them. It is kind of like beating a dead horse with a dull hammer.

Enough is enough!

We get it!

Now a dead Horse... THIS is where I'd use the gasoline and cremate it !

just saying, Mike

[DRNurse1]

^^^So, Mike, are we suppose to use the gasoline trick???^^^

[myg30]

^^^So, Mike, are we suppose to use the gasoline trick???^^^

Only to despose of a dead animal. Not for smelting.
I use cold pot, cold weights. Ambient temp you know. :-)

[trapper9260]

To me working with raw gas is more dangerous than the smelting process.
It can be so much easier.
I just pour them all in my smelting pot with no molten lead in the bottom. Bring the temp up slowly and stir/lift from the bottom of the middle to the top. The lead will melt the iron and zinc will end up on top of your molten lead. Scop out the clips, iron, and zinc. Flux a few times, reduce with wax once and pour into ingots.

I do almost the same as you but what I do is I flux with saw dust and have the same stuff surface like you and also I put in igots also and start a new batch.and do it low heat that way whatever there is in it will go away slow and if any water will disappear also and the rest will show up on top after.That I skim off.