40-65 for a Buffalo hunt

[Boz330]

I know some of you guys have taken Buffalo. I'm thinking about a hunt for this fall if I can get use to these new knees in time. I would like to use my 40-65 roller with a 325gr flat nose. I'm wondering if this is enough boolit, both weight wise and caliber. I know that placement is primary but sometimes things happen that are beyond your control. I also have a heavier boolit but the meplat isn't nearly as wide.
I have a 45-70 Sharps but it is several pounds heavier than the roller and I can see it getting pretty heavy by the end of the day.

Bob

[Kenny Wasserburger]

you will want a bullet that makes complete pass through period! I was on a hunt last year in Dec shooter had a 45-90 only one bullet made it all the way through that was a paunch Shot. 2.5 hrs later and quite a bit of oh ****, I killed it with my 45-110 with single round nosed bullet. This is not a deer your shooting (bullet you listed works great for that) It is a big tough critter and a double Lung hit with pass through to depressure the Animals Diaphram is needed. Been there killed more then a couple now.
Kenny W.

[Don McDowell]

I would look more to the RCBS CSA 400 wound up tight and running out of the muzzle with it's hair on fire , if using the 40-65 on buffalo. Like Kenny says on those big critters you need to deflate the chest cavity for a quick put down, unless you are close enough to put one thru the brainpan.

[Lead pot]

I know of one using a .40-65 on a problem Cow and it put her down in fine shape. But I dont know what the load and bullet he used.
They are tough! My last one I had to shoot twice to get the job done with both shots through the lungs and he still managed to trot off after getting back up from the ground.

[Boz330]

That is why I asked. I figure a few had first hand experience.

I watched way too many elk get away after being shot with 240gr 44 pistol bullets in sabots when I guided in NM. A quartering shot on the shoulder blade was just about a guaranteed lost animal. It was a great combo for whitetail but an elk is way bigger than a whitetail.

As much as I like that 40-65 I'd rather carry the extra weight and make a humane quick kill. Most of the stories I've seen talk of more than one good hit being required.

Bob

[Lead pot]

Bob.

I just reread my post and forgot to say that I used my .44-77 with a 480 grain RN bullet.
I have seen Bison get back up using the .45-90 and a .50-2.5 also. They are a tough animal and not taken lightly.

[reddot5]

Have been involved in the taking of three Bison with the 40-65. All shot with 60 grs of 3F and a 400 gr flat nose from Buffalo Arms, cast at 30-1. Two shots on each animal, both thru the heart. All shots were complete pass thrus. They wobbled around a minute but did not go anywhere, then just collapsed. I have also taken an Elk with the same outfit. One shot thru the chest, double lung with no ribs hit. Ran about 30 yds. then collapsed.

[bigted]

Bob ... have not been on a buff hunt but a few BIG moose up here in gods country. i know for a fact that a shot with a 400 grain 45 cal runnin around 1500 fps does a grand job on anything moving small tree's around ... and they always do the pass thru.

cant imagine a 40 cal with a 400 + grain boolit runnin round 1400 or so fps wouldn't do just fine on a buff. just ensure a good broadside hit just behind the big shoulder bone and all should work out fine. the 45 cal 350 to 400 grain boolits do a great pass thru on our big bears and moose and a few buff here in the wild backcountry and i would be astounded if the 40 wouldnt do as well runnin the same speed. we have a wild roaming herd of buff up here as well as a few ranch herds and they are harvested every year with a bunch of different size rifles. not to hard to get close to but they be big for sure... the herd bulls that is. cows tend to run a bit smaller.

[Boz330]

It would be pretty hard to get a 400 running 1500, 1275 might be doable with BP but not much more.
This hunt will be a meat hunt so they say a 2 year old bull going 1000 to maybe 1200lbs. A lot depends on how well I do on these new knees, but I'll have almost a year on them by the time of the hunt.
Did you have any luck with those boolits I sent you or has the weather been too bad to test them?

Bob

PS. Never mind Ted I saw your post on the other thread. Hope your dad is doing well.

[johnson1942]

i have met 2 men and one is a friend who are oglala souix tribe menbers. they have both put down just over 300 buffalo used for furnerals of a tribal elder. one has used a 38/55 and a .257 roberts. the other i dont know. they usually shoot from 100 yards at a broadside shot.they have both told me that they shoot for one spot and one spot only. when you look at the withers they are angled and stand out like those on a horse. let your eye go to the middle of that then aim just 3 inches up from the winthers in a line pointing toward the skull. this will sever ther spine and drop them in one shot. if you just get close to the spine in this type of shot you will shock the spine so much it still will drop them. your gun is very well big enough for this type of shot. a man from the east side of the state shot one 8 times with a 300 mag before it went down. they can take a heart shot and not go down for awhile and my souix friend sad the spine shot is by far the best. just wanted to pass on what the natives know, have fun. its not the gun, it is the shot placement.

[Bullshop Junior]

They is a book on the old time buffalo hunters, from way back when. I dont remember the name of it, but it had a list of some of the big names back then. It showed what they shot, how many shots they fired total during their career as a hide hunter, and how many total kills. The 38s and 40s were on the 4-6 shot per animal range, were the 45/90 and 45/110 were about 2. The 50/90 was just about 1 kill per shot.

[bigted]

to be accurate with the "how it were done" and the reason i am less and less enamored with the ODG's and their methods is as follows from "getting a stand" book as well as other books and articles i have read.

to "get a stand" they would get a small herd ... 10 to 50 animals ... and shoot the leader [in the paunch to make em sick and circle around] and wait for the next "leader" and shoot it likewise. to keep this action up till the whole herd would be milling round and then they would proceed to kill them all or as many as they could before the rest lit a shuck. so many buff were inhumanely shot with the exact purpose of making them sick enough to not lead out but to begin to mill about and act as herders to hold the rest till the hunter could kill as many as he could. meanwhile these "herders" would continue to mill about with a ball thru the paunch and the agony must have been extreme as they milled around being gutshot.

what a deal. kinda reminds me of the how of the old time Indians would kill em with bows and lances. they were killed over a bunch of real estate till they finally bled out enough to die as a result of the arrows and lances lodged in them as they ran. at least the Indians had thoughts of admiration for the animals and only took as many as could be used in whole.

as with any animal ... there is a way to harvest meat now days that is both humane and quick in the death of a fine animal. i totally agree with the above post which states that the shot placement is the single best telling mark as to the how of killing your animal ... be it a buff , moose , elk , bear or any other big game animal.

to shoot an animal in the gut so as to purposely allow it to continue to mingle with its own for the security and family wholeness ... is and was a barbaric thing to do and no wonder the practice was and should today be frowned on. all for the money on the part of the hunters and skinners and the pacification of the Indians on the part of the government. such a shame is all i see. and to think of all the tons of good wholesome meat that rotted on the prairie sickens me. except for the hump, heart and tongue the rest was left to rot.

ok im down off the high stump now ... i still love the rifles and the chambers they were cut with. still think the 40-65 would do fine on a buff if shot placement is the primary thought in the hunt. from what i have seen ... the buff is fairly easy to get close to and shot placement should then be simply a matter of patience and being a good hunter and harvester.

[Bullshop Junior]

Our neighbor in alaska had a buffalo farm, and used a 30/06 to the base of the skull for years, before going to a 44 mag Marlin

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Most of the 50-90 shooters of the day back when used the 475 gr PP load and no where near the killing power of the 500 plus grain 45 Long cases. I know of two hunters that swear by their 45-70 over a 50-90 with the traditional PP load, and 1 has used both varrious times. There were darn few 50-90's used by the end of the era especially so on the Northern herd, for good reasons.

KW
THe Lunger

[Boz330]

I always do my best to make good shots, but occasionally Murphy can step in. As far as the spine shot it will definitely put the animal down but requires a follow up shot to finish them off. I really want to do this with BP and an original type firearm. I have a soft spot for the 40-65 but I'm sure not against using the 45-70 if it will make for as quick and humane kill as possible. I knew there were folks here that had been there done that on this forum which is why I asked.
When I guided elk hunters in NM the guys who didn't have enough gun or the wrong ammo used to drive me nuts. Yes with proper bullet placement it can be done.
It amazed me how many guys paid $6000 to $7000 for a hunt and then didn't spend a couple hundred $ on practice ammo. We had hunters check zeros when they arrived and actually had guys run out of ammo before the hunt started. Over 10 years of guiding I had more hunters miss elk than hit them. The outfitter was guiding a guy one day and got him within 60yds of a sleeping bull and the guy blew one antler off of the bull while supposedly aiming for a broad side shot. It was a primitive hunt and fortunately the bull stood while the guy reloaded and killed him.

Bob

[Red River Rick]

Shot placement is the KEY!

Punch out any animals lungs and they aren't going to go very far. A nice hole thru both lungs will always bring them down. Besides, you couldn't ask for better meat. It's been well bled out. Unlike shooting them in the head.


RRR