357 sig

[milltownhunter]

I been toying with getting a sig in 357 sig I had a glock 10 to 15 years ago that I traded I only load a few rounds since I bought Remington golden sabors wrong bullets for the sig I heard that the sig is hard to load and you can not use cast?

[TCStehle]

I personally wouldn't say 357Sig is hard to load. I use a 40S&W carbide die to size the body of the case and then a 357Sig die to size the case neck/mouth. It adds an extra step to the process but eliminates the need to lube cases when using only a 357Sig steel die.

As to using cast bullets in the 357Sig I don't see why not provided the bullet has the right profile and hardness. Overall length is obviously a key factor as you're not going to be able to just load a 9mm 125gr LRN as the length will be too long. You'd need to use a truncated cone design and keep an eye on overall length.

Shooting cast in a Glock chambered in 357Sig with a factory barrel will have the issue of polygonal rifling and cast bullets but that's not unique to 357Sig.

[oger]

I do it all the time just be careful about getting enough crimp on the bullet so you don't get any setback.

[Sig556r]

Just loaded some test rounds for an incoming G22 conversion barrel.
I used PC'd Lee 120TCs seated to 1.145" COAL behind 5.4g AA#2
Lubed the case prior to sizing & wiped-off prior to flare/powder/seat.
Then used a LFCD for a light crimp.
Will try out the .40 carbide setup in my turret next time.

[Tackleberry41]

I have never seen the issue with loading 357 sig. Just an extra step if you want to avoid lube.

You can use cast, just a little more work. Same alloy you would use in a 357 mag. What I use a 158gr NOE mold, makes a 145gr HP. Sized down for use in a 9mm barrel. Can even crimp them to prevent set back. I found a load using 40S&W brass, yes shorter, but with a crimp no set back. And the LEE factory crimp works on the shorter case better than factory length.

[9.3X62AL]

I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.

[cwlongshot]

I bought a used G27 almost three years ago. It came with a 357SIG NO NAME barrel in the box. It was close to a year till I even tried it in the gun! WOW what a BLAST! PUN INTENDED! Less recoil than the 40, but 25-30% more blast and ACCURATE!! I found a deal on a used KKM G23 conversion barrel and grabbed that too... I have been shooting and loading it since. I like it SO MUCH, it hasn't come out and I bought a second G23!! I have shot 125G bullets to almost mid 1400 fps in a 4" bbl! Thinking to myself, This would make for a awesome small short carbine load. (So would the bigger 9x25 Dillon!)

Last year I read that Glock was going out of the Gen3 Business... I always wanted a G24. SO I ordered one and immediately ordered a KKM 357SIG barrel for the G24! This is THE MOST accurate Glock I have ever shot! My g20 will shoot 4" @ 50 me shooting... This darn thing will do 2"!!! I can keep a mag on a 8" paster out @100 yards standing supported!! The thing is just a joy to shoot! Ooh I am just past 1600 fps in top load with a 125G bullet from the 6.25" bbl.

You need to think RIFLE when you load for the 357SIG. I have difficulty loading some bullets, I now use a M-Die as a extra step and all problem disappeared! I taper crimp it, BUT don't load to head space off mouth, use the shoulder.

I resize Sierra .357 150 SP bullets to .355 and load them as I find them a lil tougher than 147g 9MM. But Nosler bullets (124 & 147) area a nice, but soft bullet for the sig. There RN profile loads well.

I am waiting on my smith to re-chamber a 9MM AR barrel for me. When he dose I will have a 357SIG AR upper to complete!! :bigsmyl2:

[Sig556r]

I have never seen the issue with loading 357 sig. Just an extra step if you want to avoid lube.

You can use cast, just a little more work. Same alloy you would use in a 357 mag. What I use a 158gr NOE mold, makes a 145gr HP. Sized down for use in a 9mm barrel. Can even crimp them to prevent set back. I found a load using 40S&W brass, yes shorter, but with a crimp no set back. And the LEE factory crimp works on the shorter case better than factory length.

Always thought .357sig headspaces on case mouth & not on shoulder...

[cwlongshot]

Always thought .357sig headspaces on case mouth & not on shoulder...


Much confusion on the head space settings on this one.

Shoulder makes more sense to me, Why use a case mount that tiny and unreliable. (Remember this is a "RIFLE" type loading caliber) Unlike most pistol calibers, this case grows with sizing and shooting.

CW

[Sig556r]

Much confusion on the head space settings on this one.

Shoulder makes more sense to me, Why use a case mount that tiny and unreliable. (Remember this is a "RIFLE" type loading caliber) Unlike most pistol calibers, this case grows with sizing and shooting.

CW

"...According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portatives) 2008 revised documents, the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth (H2).[5] Some US sources are in conflict with this standard.[6] However, the cartridge and chamber drawing in the ANSI/SAAMI American National Standards also clearly shows the cartridge headspacing on the cartridge mouth.[7] Likewise, US reloading supplier Lyman has published that the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth..."

[Virginia John]

I love my .357 Sig and use the 40S&W sizer first followed by the Sig sizer. A 124/125 TC shoots fine and loads easy. And as they say it is a blast. You can get the .357 Sig in a Sig, M&P or Glock, I have had all three and prefer the Sig or M&P over the Glock unless you change the barrel.

[dansedgli]

I shoot 357 sig in a STI 2011 for IPSC. I load 160-185 grain projectiles at 175pf. Around 1.24 inches long.

Using dillon dies, I resize until the case fits my chamber. I mainly use 40 cases too.

There is a 168 grain shaped bullet that works well in the glocks. 168z from accurate molds.

[dkf]

I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.

SAAMI says case mouth. The gauges for cutting the chamber of the barrel goes off the shoulder. Its debated and there are merits to both. All factory .357sig ammo I have run into pushes the should back pretty far so it doesn't come close to touching it. That ammo I could see it head spacing on the case mouth. On your reloads you can move the shoulder where you want for the most part.

I usually use 124gr-147gr cast in mine. The 9mm ranch Dog design works good. I also have an accurate 35-147s mold and an MP 125gr TC mold that I use too. I never had any problems shooting cast. Using stock Glock barrels.

[Tackleberry41]

Case mouth on a bottle neck for only this single cartridge seems...whatever. Seen it said its the mouth. All I know is, those converted 40S&W run fine, be the shoulder holding them back. Not all 40S&W, so far its been PMC brass thats consistently long enough. Long enough where with forming you can square the case mouth so it will flare and crimp on a cast bullet. Other brands are generally short, trimmer doesn't touch them, or just a little spot, can't get a good roll crimp. The Lee factory crimp does a better job on the shorter case than it does 357 sig brass. I fiddled with it, working backwards from length required to get that bullet to feed thru a magazine, trimmed a case back till it was at the crimp groove. Which is right about length of a formed PMC 40S&W case. Linotype, gas check, same as used in my 357mag.

Found 800x gives best velocity with that weight, just harder to meter.

[cwlongshot]

"...According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portatives) 2008 revised documents, the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth (H2).[5] Some US sources are in conflict with this standard.[6] However, the cartridge and chamber drawing in the ANSI/SAAMI American National Standards also clearly shows the cartridge headspacing on the cartridge mouth.[7] Likewise, US reloading supplier Lyman has published that the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth..."

Yup I know and have read this.

Dosent mean its the only way. I have been loading a long time, dont claim to be smarter then anyone. This simply didnt make any sence to me so I set mine to HS off the shoulder.

This caliber in my guns is crazy accurate, 100% reliable and above all makes me happy.

Your your own person, its still a free country. Your mileagle may varry.

Good luck,

CW

[Elkins45]

I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.

If you read any of the several reloading manuals I own they all say it headspaces on the case mouth. However if you look at a picture of a 357 Sig headspace gauge it doesn’t even have a case mouth, just a shoulder. My experience has been that you can roll crimp them and they work fine. In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really headspace on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary. I imagine the Sig really headspaces on the extractor as well, with the shoulder as secondary.

https://www.realguns.com/images/nggabul.jpg

[Piedmont]

The photograph of the headspace gauge says it all, doesn't it?

[ioon44]

"In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really head space on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary."

Interesting how this fact is over looked.

[osteodoc08]

"In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really head space on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary."

Interesting how this fact is over looked.

How many Glock shooters shoot 40 S&W in their 10mm based on this premise? Quite a few in my experience.

[35remington]

I’d suggest examining to see if your guns are head spacing on the extractor before taking it on faith that they do. It isn’t hard to determine.

For those of you that think you “Know” that...care to explain how you know that?

[35remington]

I will post this next with a suggestion that I just looked at an LCP2 and two M and P 40s, and a 9mm, 40 and 45 Shield and an EC9s. None are headspacing on the extractor with any cases I have.

A 1911 is even less likely to.

The chamber ledge near the start of the rifling for straight wall and even bottleneck is there for a reason. It is functioning most of the time as a head spacing surface is why. I will suggest that extractor headspacing may be more fiction than fact.

With bottlenecks the handloader may choose to size such that the case shoulder controls headspace. Factory ammo likely has the shoulder so far back the case mouth does that job.

[Sig556r]

Case mouth on a bottle neck for only this single cartridge seems...whatever. Seen it said its the mouth. All I know is, those converted 40S&W run fine, be the shoulder holding them back. Not all 40S&W, so far its been PMC brass thats consistently long enough. Long enough where with forming you can square the case mouth so it will flare and crimp on a cast bullet. Other brands are generally short, trimmer doesn't touch them, or just a little spot, can't get a good roll crimp. The Lee factory crimp does a better job on the shorter case than it does 357 sig brass. I fiddled with it, working backwards from length required to get that bullet to feed thru a magazine, trimmed a case back till it was at the crimp groove. Which is right about length of a formed PMC 40S&W case. Linotype, gas check, same as used in my 357mag.

Found 800x gives best velocity with that weight, just harder to meter.

Thanks for the info.
You got me sorting my brass pile of .40s for PMC headstamp.
Resized to .357sig, they measured about 0.010"-0.015" shorter than once-fired.
Loaded some 125g LRFNs up to crimp groove with AA#9.
Crimped with LFCD, they function well on my G22 with the conversion barrel.

[ioon44]

I used the longest .40 S&W brass for my .357 Sig and they measured about 0.010"-0.015" shorter than once-fired and they worked fine in my G22 with the Barsto conversion barrel.

[Elkins45]

I will post this next with a suggestion that I just looked at an LCP2 and two M and P 40s, and a 9mm, 40 and 45 Shield and an EC9s. None are headspacing on the extractor with any cases I have.

A 1911 is even less likely to.

The chamber ledge near the start of the rifling for straight wall and even bottleneck is there for a reason. It is functioning most of the time as a head spacing surface is why. I will suggest that extractor headspacing may be more fiction than fact.

With bottlenecks the handloader may choose to size such that the case shoulder controls headspace. Factory ammo likely has the shoulder so far back the case mouth does that job.

This doesn’t explain all those people who shoot 40S&W in 10mm guns.

[Sig556r]

I used the longest .40 S&W brass for my .357 Sig and they measured about 0.010"-0.015" shorter than once-fired and they worked fine in my G22 with the Barsto conversion barrel.

That's what I'm hoping for in my next range visit...if all works out I'll have good use of my 40 brass pile

[35remington]

But it does explain people who shoot the right cartridge in guns chambered for that cartridge and whether or not the extractor is headspacing in that much more relevant situation. Extrapolating from the fact that 40 can be shot in 10mm to posit that most straightwall cartridges headspace on the extractor sounds like something someone has repeated as fact after hearing it somewhere, but not actually looked into it themselves.

I can go into considerable detail in explaining how I know what I know.

I am suggesting that those here that say that most straightwall cartridges headspace on the extractor have never looked into it, because if they had, they probably would not be saying it.

[Sig556r]

That's what I'm hoping for in my next range visit...if all works out I'll have good use of my 40 brass pile
Just got off the range with the .357sig converts using 120g TCs & 128g RFNs & they all cycled fine. The TCs with light crimp are fun to shoot while the RFNs crimped to groove seems a tad hot with 12g AA9.

[McFred]

Regardless of what the cartridge headspaces on, I've shot a lot of Sig in a G31, a converted G35 and a 20" T/C Contender carbine. 125s are easy to drive to 1350+ from a 4" barrel and 90 grain projectiles at 1600+ with the 6" G35 barrel. I haven't hotrodded cast in the carbine but 121 Hornadys will do MOA at 2000fps (a load I would NOT use in an auto-loading pistol).

I have my sizing die set to bump the shoulder on pistol brass and I only neck-size the carbine brass and keep it separate from the pistol brass.

Reloading Sig is no different than any other cartridge IMO.

[Moonie]

I've been loading the 357 Sig for years, I also use the 40 S&W sizer then the 357 Sig sizer, no lube required doing it this way. I load the Lee 125gr RNFP and actually crimp in the lube groove to prevent setback. Works well.

[Elkins45]

But it does explain people who shoot the right cartridge in guns chambered for that cartridge and whether or not the extractor is headspacing in that much more relevant situation. Extrapolating from the fact that 40 can be shot in 10mm to posit that most straightwall cartridges headspace on the extractor sounds like something someone has repeated as fact after hearing it somewhere, but not actually looked into it themselves.

I can go into considerable detail in explaining how I know what I know.

I am suggesting that those here that say that most straightwall cartridges headspace on the extractor have never looked into it, because if they had, they probably would not be saying it.

When I’m saying it I’m quoting Dean Grinnell, who did extensive and well-documented experimentation with under length cases in the 45 acp in a 1911. That was Grinnell’s conclusion, and I have a lot of reasons to respect his findings.

[35remington]

We are not interested in deliberately selected or purposely made under length cases. We are interested in the cases factories actually produce and reloaders actually use. This invalidates findings where the experimenter uses short cases.

Handloader magazine goofs on the issue as well. Simple measurement anyone can do will clarify the matter and remove it from “they said this so I am believing it” line of reasoning.

The idea that the extractor headspaces the majority of the time is not that hard to discredit.

A 1911 has to have very short cases to headspace on the extractor because of the great distance the extractor lets the case go forward of the breechface. Shorter by a very noticeable amount that most any handloader has in his inventory.

[Elkins45]

We are not interested in deliberately selected or purposely made under length cases.

I am, especially in the instance where people make 357 Sig brass from 40S&W cases that come out of the die with only the tiniest bit of a neck.

We may be having a discussion that’s based on semantics. What I’m trying to say is that in most autoloaders the extractor provides a positive limit on excessive headspace such that many guns continue to be reliable with cases that would otherwise dramatically fail a headspace measurement. The forward movement of the case against the firing pin blow is eventually retarded by the extractor even if the shoulder or mouth never make contact.

The fact that the extractor provides positive headspacing (via retention of the case) can be shown by the fact you can slip a loaded round into an unmounted slide in many guns and it will just hang there being retained by the spring pressure of the extractor. That’s what I’m referring to, and while it doesn’t meet the technical definition of ‘headspace’ it meets the practical one.

[35remington]

The idea that most autoloading or straightwall cases headspace on the extractor as stated earlier in this thread is certainly quite wrong. That is specifically what I am objecting to, and with good reason. It is not a semantic point.

It is much more accurate to say that cases of the correct type shot in their intended chamber do not headspace on the extractor in the vast majority of instances. Extractor headspacing is absolutely not the frequent occurrence it is made out to be to the extent it can blithely be considered the default occurrence.

It is also not an elusive point, but rather quite easy to determine. In a practical sense the chamber stop shoulder headspaces the brass far, far more often than the extractor ever does

[chutestrate]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?375620-Advice-for-loading-357-sig-I-keep-crushing-cases-during-bullet-seating-process