Powder availability problem

[tazman]

I have exactly one pound of 800x on hand and no options locally for normally listed pistol powders. I am looking to increase my supply and choices.
In that vein, I searched and called every establishment within 80 miles I could that might possibly have powder on hand. None had powder. Few had primers or ammunition available.
No one offered any expectation of the situation changing anytime soon, as in the next 2 or 3 months.

I did find an large quantity of Winchester Super Handicap available at a reasonable price.

Is this powder suitable for light to medium loads in 9mm and 38 special?

It falls halfway between titegroup and Winchester 231 on the burn rate chart but I have not seen any data and cannot find any one who has experience loading this powder.
If anyone on this site has any information about it's suitability for these cartridges, and any starting load data, I would appreciate hearing about it.
Thanks in advance
Tazman

[tomme boy]

Scheels in IA City had 800 and 700X yesterday.

[tazman]

Thanks for the reply tomme.

Iowa City is 135 miles one way from my house.
I would prefer to find something a bit closer if possible.
That's why I asked about the wsh powder. It is within 30 miles and in quantity.

[Wayne Smith]

Check with Winchester for data. Call them and ask.

[starmac]

Ventured around town today for a look see. 50 BMG powder was the only thing available, and just one pound left of it. lol But yesterday was powder stocking day. lol

[tazman]

Ventured around town today for a look see. 50 BMG powder was the only thing available, and just one pound left of it. lol But yesterday was powder stocking day. lol

Seems to be a lot of that kind of thing going around.
Most of the local gun shops in the area around me told me they have a regular clientele who always come in when they know powder will arrive.
Some even said they will call their regular customers when something comes in and will leave nothing for anyone else. They claimed that all expected supplies were taken for at least the next 3 months.
Makes it hard for a new customer to become a regular customer.

[tazman]

Check with Winchester for data. Call them and ask.

Since Winchester powder is now managed by Hodgdon I tried to find out if some one had contacted them about wsh powder for 9mm and I found some one who had.
This was his post.
From the highroad website
"aHFo3
September 11, 2013, 06:15 PM
I finally called Hodgdon. There are no handgun applications for Winchester Super Handicap AA powder."

I suspect this is due to them not wanting to work any load data up because they already have enough powders specific for pistol use. As many have found out, other powders will work quite well for pistol that the manufacturer has said no application exists. They have also said this about wst and wsf in times past.
I may have to experiment and see if I can work one up myself.

[pkie44]

Get some buddies together and share hazmat
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=DU800X1&src=tpSlrHm

[Bjornb]

Over the last 3 months I have been able to buy the following powders from Powder Valley and Bruno's Shooter Supply: AA4350, Promo, 2400, SR4759, AA5744, IMR4198. I "worked" hard for it: checked their web sites 15-20 times per day, 7 days a week. Struck when I found what I was looking for. The ONLY powder I haven't been able to find anywhere is IMR4895/H4895. I finally broke down and bought 3lbs. from a seller on GunBroker. Bought an M1 Rifle and just had to have it. My local Bass Pro has powders on occasion, but a lot of it is medium-slow rifle powders like Leverevolution etc.

[dragon813gt]

These threads have been popping up more as of late. All I have to say is have hope. Almost everything is back in stock by me. In quantity and at normal prices. If its happened here it should be getting to you soon enough. I picked up 2400 and 4895 last weekend, along w/ a lot of primers.

[tazman]

Around here prices vary a LOT. Primers anywhere from $32 to $40 a thousand.
Powder in 1LB containers runs from$30 to $40 in most stores.
In the original post I mentioned finding Winchester super handicap in quantity and cheap(for here). Was priced at $18 per pound and I could get all I wanted. I just need loading data for it.

[Love Life]

Get some friends together and order it online...or do without. $28 is cheap compared to gas, cheeseburgers, and sitting at home wishing you were shooting.

That's what I have been doing. I thought I was set for life, and then I had to go and pick up a new caliber during a powder/primer/anything reloading shortage.

[zomby woof]

Plenty of powder in NY

http://www.beikirchs.com/PDF/POWDERINVENTORYATBEIKIRCH010214.pdf

[badgeredd]

According to the Winchester Powder site Titegroup is the next faster powder from Win. Super Hanicap.
http://www.wwpowder.com/burn-rate.html

In that case one should be able to work up a loads using GreenDot or any of the faster powders in the immediate vicinity of WSH. It appears there isn't any data available but that shouldn't hamper a person from figuring it out.

Edd

[TXGunNut]

That's what I have been doing. I thought I was set for life, and then I had to go and pick up a new caliber during a powder/primer/anything reloading shortage. -Love Life

That's why I (try to ;-) ) avoid adding new cartridges to my reloading efforts, each often costs as much as the firearm that chambers it. Finding new powders just to try adds a new layer of difficulty these days. Sure keeps things interesting, tho. I think I'll go try to score some primers and a cheeseburger before I retire to my reloading room to try to figure out my latest new cartridge.

[TXGunNut]

Back to the OP most shotgun powders make excellent light pistol powders, seem to recall WST enjoyed some popularity as a clean alternative for 231 in target 45acp and 35spl loads. I'd start around 2.5 for the .38 and around 4.0 for the 9mm, check to ensure each boolit leaves the bore when starting that low.

[Love Life]

That's why I (try to ;-) ) avoid adding new cartridges to my reloading efforts, each often costs as much as the firearm that chambers it. Finding new powders just to try adds a new layer of difficulty these days. Sure keeps things interesting, tho. I think I'll go try to score some primers and a cheeseburger before I retire to my reloading room to try to figure out my latest new cartridge.

It has been so worth it!!

[TXGunNut]

It as been so worth it!!

Sometimes I wonder, my friend. I truly wonder. My latest adventure has been quite trying but the thutty-thutty project was pretty easy once I overcame the optics issue. Next adventure is to bring my 375 Winchester out of retirement but I have at least half a dozen suitable powders and the Lyman 375449 standing by patiently.
I need a few challenges to keep life interesting but in a weak moment I envy the blissfully ignorant souls who happily buy their ammo off the shelf.

[Love Life]

There are times when I look at the ammo shelves longingly. If Federal had a line of .243 Winchester with 105-115 gr bullets in their Gold Medal Match line for the same price as their 308, I would buy a few boxes.

The pistol stuff is easy to reload. Toss in tumbler, feed to Dillon, done. The rifle stuff can get tedious at times and I think about the amount of time it takes to make match ready ammo.

[Wayne S]

Get some buddies together and share hazmat
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=DU800X1&src=tpSlrHmWith their new policy of a 10 # per powder and very limited supplies of all powders , one or two 1 # cans is better that nothing

[Wayne S]

Plenty of powder in NY

http://www.beikirchs.com/PDF/POWDERINVENTORYATBEIKIRCH010214.pdf Couldn't find any details like, do they ship ? is there a limit on a single powder, and a total limit ??

[garym1a2]

When powder started to be an issue I got a keg of bullseye.
I normally load WST or WST, but when t hey are short on supply I can always use Bullseye.

My recommendation is to always have an extra keg of Bullseye or Unique. Than you can always load your handguns. Better yet with a keg of Unique you can also get reasonable on rifles.

On rifles always keep a keg of 4895 handy for backup it works decent.

[tazman]

Went to a gun show today in the hopes of finding some reloading supplies for the pistol. The only powder that was offered was for rifle. The small pistol primers were from magtech. I hadn't heard of them before so I passed on them.
There was some reloaded 125 grain lead loads offered for 500 for $170. I passed
There were some 115gr plated loads offered also 1000 count for $400. I can buy new from almost any gun store cheaper than that.
Seems some gun show dealers have delusions.

[tazman]

Back to the OP most shotgun powders make excellent light pistol powders, seem to recall WST enjoyed some popularity as a clean alternative for 231 in target 45acp and 35spl loads. I'd start around 2.5 for the .38 and around 4.0 for the 9mm, check to ensure each boolit leaves the bore when starting that low.

I did just that with some borrowed wst in the 9mm. I found data in 2 different loading manuals and several places online. I started at 3.8 and bumped it .2 grains per test set. 4.2 and above did not work well or accurately. 4.4 flattened primers in my pistol.
I settled on 4.0 grains under a lee 120 tc. Good function and accuracy in my weapon. Now all I need to do is find a local supply.

Just checked the burn rate chart again. wst and wsh are almost side by side on the chart. Both situated halfway between titegroup and hp38.
My thought is the load recipe would be similar with the wsh maybe a tenth of so different.
Any thought anyone?

[spfd1903]

Tazman: how far are you from Peru Illinois? Got all the powder I needed from Boomers and Blasters. One way trip of 60 miles for me. Trip was worth it to me.

[tazman]

Tazman: how far are you from Peru Illinois? Got all the powder I needed from Boomers and Blasters. One way trip of 60 miles for me. Trip was worth it to me.

I an about 135 mi from peru.
I am beginning to think it might be worth the trip.

[zomby woof]

Couldn't find any details like, do they ship ? is there a limit on a single powder, and a total limit ??

Dealers and North East shipping only.

It's a great place to have 20 minutes from my house. They have a great store. The only limits they have ever imposed are 22LR and primers the last year.

[tazman]

The load data listed here is for my pistol only. Use at your own risk.

I acquired a pound of winchester super handicap earlier this week and started testing this weekend.
My starting load was 3.6 gr under a Lee 125gr round nose boolit sized to .357.
3.6 grains- lots off smoke and so so accuracy. would not function the pistol reliably. fte and ftl 80%
3.8 grains - less smoke, better accuracy but still fte and ftl.
4.0 grains- even less smoke, still better accuracy but still fte and ftl
4.2 grains- no noticeable smoke and very good accuracy but still some fte and ftl.
No signs of excess pressure at all. No leading.
I need to clean my pistol and boost the loads up further. This is starting to show promise. The accuracy is getting close to what I get with my 357 mag with 38 special loads. If I can get the function going reliably this could be a very accurate powder.

[tazman]

As always the powder load data is for my personal pistol only. Use at your own risk.

I got back to the range today with some new loads for the wsh powder experiment.
I worked up to a max of 4.7 grains using a 120 tc bullet sized to .357.
There was no smoke, no leading, no failures to eject, or failures to feed.
No pressure signs at all with winchester or cci small pistol primers. Remington primers were problematic.
Felt recoil was slightly less than with factory loads.
Sorry that I can't give any velocity numbers. I don't have access to a chrono yet.
Accuracy was very good.
At the higher loadings the powder burned very clean.

[Gunnut 45/454]

My LGS hasn't had powder for about 6 months, a week ago he finally got a shipment- 40 1 lb cans of IMR 4064!! I bought two as I was low on powder for my AR's. Went back last weekend - ALL gone not one pound left! I don't care what anyone says- Odumbo is the cause of this. There is no way in hell the manufactures are shorting the market like this. I'll bet money Odumbo has the Feds putting the screws to anything gun related.

[Gunnut 45/454]

My LGS hasn't had powder for about 6 months, a week ago he finally got a shipment- 40 1 lb cans of IMR 4064!! I bought two as I was low on powder for my AR's. Went back last weekend - ALL gone not one pound left! I don't care what anyone says- Odumbo is the cause of this. There is no way in hell the manufactures are shorting the market like this. I'll bet money Odumbo has the Feds putting the screws to anything gun related.:(

[dragon813gt]

Obama isn't buying up all the powder, reloaders are. We have seen the enemy and it is us.

[btroj]

Yep, simple supply and demand.

I am seeing more and more powder locally these days. Primers are back in supply and powder is starting to catch up.

[Love Life]

Dragons. It's all them ancient dragon's fault. I thought they were only hoarding 22lr...

[btroj]

Dragons. It's all them ancient dragon's fault. I thought they were only hoarding 22lr...

But Obama controls the dragons.....

[Love Life]

This just got real...

[btroj]

Did you hear that the dragons are shutting down Doe run? This came about because George Soros bought the financial group that owns the dragons.........

[Love Life]

Isn't soros shutting down Marlin as well?

[btroj]

Yes, he sure is. That must mean he will close Remington too.

[357maximum]

Purple letter, purple letters, purple letters, ya'll forgot the purple letters. :mrgreen:

[375RUGER]

What's this doe run you keep bringing up?
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[smilie=1:

[btroj]

Dang it man, you still don't know about Doe Run?

Would somebody get that rope.....

[cbrick]

Dang it man, you still don't know about Doe Run?

Would somebody get that rope.....

Doesn't make any sense, all does run so what's the big deal?

Rick

[btroj]

But this doe is running away with all the lead......

I bet the powder is all going to China long with all of our lead.

[btroj]

Wait a second, China is big on dragons, LL blames the dragons, maybe he is onto something.........

Dang him, he is crazy like a fox.

[dragon813gt]

Neither Obama or China control me :)

[btroj]

And you just keep on believing that.......

[swheeler]

Yes, he sure is. That must mean he will close Remington too.

That damned Schwartz guy, err I mean Soros, he and Obummer will stop at nothing.

[btroj]

Now it is Gates blocking me from chat on my iPad. I think he wants to quiet the discussions about Soros......

[62chevy]

Gosh I think you guys should attend Sarcastic Anonymous but if you did then half the treads on this site wouldn't be worth reading. LOL!

[jmort]

The bandwidth savings might obviate any need for member cash donations if we "missed-out" on all the sarcasm.

[35 shooter]

I wish that doe would run by me....my freezer's still empty! Which way is she headed anyway?

[tazman]

That was certainly interesting. Informative too. Rumors I hadn't heard before.

[btroj]

I know of more rumors but can't share em here, the tin foil hats won't allow it.......

[Newtire]

Big 5 is out of powder but they had some WW primers @$45 per 1000! So after tax that is a nickle per shot before you add the rest.
I guess all the "quantitative easing" is paying dividends.........to somebody.Interesting to see what others are charging. Here in Southern Idaho, primers are $36-38 per 1000 at Sportsman's Warehouse.

[tazman]

Yesterday I was at bass pro in east peoria. They had primers but wanted $47 a thousand.
I bought some at another store 8 miles away for $30.
Powder prices vary a lot here too.
One store had rifle powder for $37 a pound, another store for $18.
Makes no sense to me unless they feel they can gouge because of the scarcity.

[starmac]

Most brands of primers at sportsmans here are going for 37.99 to 41.99, unless you want match primers and they are running 52.99. Any and all of them are hit and miss and just stay on the shelves for one day at a time at the best. I actually saw some federal primers this week for the first time in months. The feds price wasn't marked, and I didn't ask.

[ravelode]

primers at Scheels, Big R, Three Bears, Sportsman's Warehouse, Bob Wards are $29.90-39.99/K powder from $16.99 for 14oz titewad to $32.99 for 1lb AA5744 and the MT bonus NO Sales TAX.

[winchester 71]

just keep looking and when you find some of what you want buy all you can get in a box to make 50 pounds and buy it as it won't get any cheeper....

[Changeling]

I would really like the moaning about the "People/shooters/reloaders" causing the runaway prices to come to a close . That's pure BS from Idiots.
It's obvious what is going on and you are just kidding yourself, unless you are in his camp as a "Ringer" (You do know what a Ringer is don't you?)!
The shortage was orchestrated by Obomination after his first election and continues to this day, him and his administration are playing "Smoke and Mirrors" with the publick to eliminate ALL firearms and point the finger of an AH at the American People!
These fools have a full understanding of what they are doing!! At one point I thought they would surely as Americans see the light that has kept this country free for so long, however now I feel that it is the beginning of the END, if the people don't wake up and THINK about what is going on!!
The very act of putting someone like this in this position is the ultimate in STUPIDITY!!

Now it will be very interesting to see who challenges the things I said! Those who know in there hearts the words I speak are true, or the others who will try to counter every thing I have said to you! Be very carefull my friends, THINK!

[btroj]

I'm not a ringer, idiot, or I agreement with you.

We are coming out of a major panic. People feared that Newton would lead to major gun and ammo bans/legislation. A logical reaction to that is to buy up a big stock.

How many here are still buying powder as soon as they can find some they need? I have purchased 24 pounds in the past 6 months. I might have bought that much powder in the previous 5 years!

I don't see a conspiracy here. Maybe I needs Tin foil hat but I see simple supply and demand problems. Powder output remains roughly the same, demands from reloaders and ammo companies skyrockets. Supply can't meet demand.

Yeah, I challenged your thinking. Now what?

[Love Life]

I buy whatever my bankroll can bear, whenever I see it. I have stopped patronizing commie stores that have imposed limits on what I can buy with my hard earned moolah. I have what I need, when I want it. If I ever decide I won't use it all, then I will sell some off. Hopefully for a profit, but I'm happy if I break even.

[TXGunNut]

The shortage was orchestrated by Obomination after his first election and continues to this day, him and his administration are playing "Smoke and Mirrors" with the publick to eliminate ALL firearms and point the finger of an AH at the American People!-Changeling



Giving the libs direct credit for orchestrating a reloading component shortage is pure silliness. Go to any reloading forum and check out all the new members, more than any time in the last several years. Ask Lee or RCBS how many presses they sold last year. The reloading community was a small percentage of the shooting public, it doesn't take very many new reloaders to put a strain on the supply chain. The laws of supply and demand may be influenced by the political climate but at this point most reloaders, myself included, are preparing for the next shortage. I have no need for a tinfoil hat, too cold around here to wear one anyway.

[btroj]

Uh oh, three people have laid down the gauntlet.

I hope I wake up in the morning......

[Love Life]

Who laid down the gauntlet?

[62chevy]

I'm living prof that it is people causing the shortage, how by not buying any guns until last, January 2013. Had a shotgun for years and thought that was enough but after December 2012 and all the talk about banning guns I got one then my Wife had to have one, I bought another she wanted pistol too then she bought me a rifle. Well all those guns needed feeding :target_smiley: but ya you guessed it no ammo. :groner: Then I had the bright idea to reload so off I went to find powder, primers and J-words. No J-words so Hey lets cast some. Can't tell you how much ammo the Wife and I bought last year and will buy that and more this year.

So ya blame me and the Wife, we can take it. lol

[RoyEllis]

Who laid down the gauntlet?

No, no, no! Follow along now....it's the chinese led by Hu Flung Dung that's conspiring to cause the glove to hit the fan, which brings us to the end of we know it.
Right???

[Love Life]

Sounds legit.

[btroj]

Post 61

It will be interesting to see who challenges what I say.......


Well, we challenged. What is so interesting?

[tazman]

Changeling posted: The shortage was orchestrated by Obomination after his first election and continues to this day, him and his administration are playing "Smoke and Mirrors" with the publick to eliminate ALL firearms and point the finger of an AH at the American People!

I would like a bit more detail on the "smoke and mirrors" so I can understand clearly what is being done. The more knowledge I have, the better I can defeat his agenda.

[TES]

I offered up a 247# drum of pistol powder @ 25.00 per pound (no profit for me) and no one chimed in. I can still get it but each evolution is 6 months and this one ended on Monday.

[jmort]

I "chimed-in" but without an FFL how do I get the powder. If it landed in So Cal there are members here but we would have to break it down before it shipped-out to Montana

[TES]

I "chimed-in" but without an FFL how do I get the powder. If it landed in So Cal there are members here but we would have to break it down before it shipped-out to Montana

It would have to be ordered here. I can see if anyone is receiving in CA to provide distribution.

I do not see where an FFL is needed unless you sell completed ammo or bullets you make.

It would have to get here, then be divided and then sent to you. Unless you have another idea or there is a Dealer in CA that will subdivide for you. I can check on that.

[TXGunNut]

Post 61

It will be interesting to see who challenges what I say.......


Well, we challenged. What is so interesting?

Well, if we can educate a few more people about the laws of supply and demand we've done a good thing. Most of us accept the laws of physics to be able to understand how to make better ammunition. If we don't understand the laws of the marketplace we'll simply blame it on the libs and smoke & mirrors. If we understand how the market works we can make it work for us, eventually. Maybe next time more folks will be ready. Others will just jam their tinfoil hats down a little tighter, point fingers and howl.

[TXGunNut]

I'm living prof that it is people causing the shortage, how by not buying any guns until last, January 2013. Had a shotgun for years and thought that was enough but after December 2012 and all the talk about banning guns I got one then my Wife had to have one, I bought another she wanted pistol too then she bought me a rifle. Well all those guns needed feeding :target_smiley: but ya you guessed it no ammo. :groner: Then I had the bright idea to reload so off I went to find powder, primers and J-words. No J-words so Hey lets cast some. Can't tell you how much ammo the Wife and I bought last year and will buy that and more this year.

So ya blame me and the Wife, we can take it. lol

Welcome to the affliction! Bet you wish you'd tried this a long time ago, nice to have a wife that's interested as well. Have fun, be safe!

[MTtimberline]

I just been keeping an eye out for WSF. Saw that a local Scheels had lowered the price on most primers from 39.99 to 34.99. They had most makes and models of primers in stock as well. Powder is still iffy.

[rhead]

A lot of the problem is evidence of just how thin the "Just in time" delivery system is. a relative small increase in demand or decrease in supply will make it crash.

I agree that part of the supply problem is caused on purpose by the government. Did you suspect that they would before they were elected?

Were you surprised when they did?

What did you do to prepare for it?

[btroj]

How did the government cause part of the supply problem? Did they lay off workers? Close plants? Interfere with supply chains? Are they buying up powder stocks?

I keep hearing about how the government is behind this but nobody ever knows how! Come on guys, share the info! Precisely how did the government cause the supply problem?

[FLYCUTTER]

Very simple answer btroj. HOMELAND SECURITY and a lot of other gov't. agencies including the usps bought millions of round of ammunition and still have orders not filled which comes first before ammunition goes out to the public sector.

[mold maker]

I'm also really interested in how the gov was responsible.
Just how many new reloaders, added to the fraternity, needed to stock up, when it started to get unobtainable?
How many never had more than a few pounds of powder , and a few hundred primers before, but suddenly need a cabinet full?
How many never had more than a couple boxes of 22LR before, because you could always get them, everywhere, cheap? Now a couple bricks isn't enough, for "just in case"?
I'm sick of the conspiracy theories.
The only conspiracy is the one we do to ourselves as hoarders. Yes I'm guilty. Since O came to power and a little before, we have all preached being prepared. This is the results of our sermon. Are there really any of us that haven't tried to increase our inventory since Hillery and O made their bid for election??????
The less we find the more we have to have.

[Bob Busetti]

Don't forget those people who don't reload/shoot who go to stores & buy every thing they see to resell in they shopper ads to turn a big profit. I have seen ads for powder that were bought for $30 offered for $60. Needless to say the powder didn't sell because most shops had the powder they bought on the shelves, plus no one would pay that much for it.
Bob

[Clay M]

I have been able to get some of the powders I need online, BUT you have to be ready to pounce when they become available. The local stores don't have anything, and when they do it is $30 a pound.

[jonas302]

Well the government is behind it because Obama sold so many guns and created to many new reloaders and scared all the old ones into buying more supplies maybe hes getting kick backs from the manufactures?

It is really websites like this one that drive the hording it all thats talked about pretty soon you think you need more powder and 22 shells ect Happens to me all the time after coming on here I start thinking I need more stuff then go into the basement and realize I could shoot more than the average hunter for the next 60 years or so

I better go get a new roll of tinfoil Obama just told me to go buy 23 million 22lr

[frkelly74]

On Target in Kalamazoo and Schantz Supply over in Otsego. Both have quite a selection of powders and primers as of right now. Most staples like 2400 and the IMR powders and Accurate powders are on hand. Unique was a little thin but there.

[Squeeze]

between that and all the prepper shows on TV. Its a monkey see world

[frkelly74]

Well I agree with the monkey see comment there. I know that when shortages are discussed I always have the urge to go resupply something. Prices usually keep that urge under control somewhat. Still, I seem to have what I need when others don't.

[cbrick]

Happens to me all the time after coming on here I start thinking I need more stuff then go into the basement and realize I could shoot more than the average hunter for the next 60 years or so

I better go get a new roll of tinfoil Obama just told me to go buy 23 million 22lr

Hunters? Really? I guess that's all the shooting anyone should need or want to do. Hunting is all there is. Sure no other reason to shoot huh?

Rick

[dragon813gt]

Hunters? Really? I guess that's all the shooting anyone should need or want to do. Hunting is all there is. Sure no other reason to shoot huh?

Rick

He didn't say that. I read it as he can shoot more than the average hunter. Nothing wrong w/ that. The average hunter by me shoots maybe 20 rounds a year.


Very simple answer btroj. HOMELAND SECURITY and a lot of other gov't. agencies including the usps bought millions of round of ammunition and still have orders not filled which comes first before ammunition goes out to the public sector.
Did you do any research on this one? Because its been thoroughly debunked by the ammo manufacturers themselves. They stated that it has little to no effect on the civilian market. The contracts are also over a long period of time w/ quantities of "up to." The government did not buy all of it at once. And they might not buy the full amount in the contract.

[462]

Since at least 2008, the primer and powder shortages have been caused, solely, by that image that is reflected back to us whenever we look in a mirror.

Conspiracies are for those who refuse to accept reality.

[Black Powder Bill]

AND the real kicker is!!!!! The millions of dollars the government collects in sales and excise taxes that they use to create more laws to take our toys away from us!!!

[bhn22]

Since at least 2008, the primer and powder shortages have been caused, solely, by that image that is reflected back to us whenever we look in a mirror.

Conspiracies are for those who refuse to accept reality.

Your perception is your reality. If you don't believe anything you see, then nothing matters anyway because you'll never accept it. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[62chevy]

It wasn't obama that caused me to buy a gun it was the media and a couple of Senators flapping their jaw. Keep in mind when I bought my first gun last year a retired Cop behind me also was buying his first gun, yup 30 years on the force and he had never bought one or so he said. He was buying a M&P 15/22. My wife has bought two 22s all total we bought 5 guns last year and the ammo to feed then. Times that by a million new gun owners and you can see where all the ammo and reloading supplies are going. I read that Florida had a million back ground check in 2013 but couldn't say how many guns were sold and that is just Florida.

[dragon813gt]

Conspiracies are for those who refuse to accept reality.

There is truth behind some of them. They all aren't complete and utter nonsense. But I do agree that there is no conspiracy theory behind the shortages. It's simple supply and demand and people blatantly ignore this fact.

[Fernando]

I'm on the supply and demand wagon.
I was on off days when Sandyhook happened and was sitting at the computer watching coverage.
I said to myself boy is this gonna cause some **** - seen it before and I needed primers and powder
for some handgun applications.
Went right to my choice of on line suppliers and hit the buy button on cases and jugs of what I knew I was
low on in my opinion.
Within a week primers were gone and powder was drying up, ammo gone.
Guess I'll go watch for the black helicopters

[btroj]

It wasn't obama that caused me to buy a gun it was the media and a couple of Senators flapping their jaw. Keep in mind when I bought my first gun last year a retired Cop behind me also was buying his first gun, yup 30 years on the force and he had never bought one or so he said. He was buying a M&P 15/22. My wife has bought two 22s all total we bought 5 guns last year and the ammo to feed then. Times that by a million new gun owners and you can see where all the ammo and reloading supplies are going. I read that Florida had a million back ground check in 2013 but couldn't say how many guns were sold and that is just Florida.


NO, the media didn't cause the shortage.

We, shooters and reloaders, caused the problem. We saw a perceived threat to our hobby and we began to stock up. Supplies got a bit tight and panic set in. No different than a run on anything else.

Face it, people are very easy to panic. Look at generators and such with the Y2K scare.

[dragon813gt]

You will never convince the majority of shooters that they are the problem. They really like to fool themselves and deny the facts. I just wish the dragons would stop hoarding all the 22 ammo.

[tazman]

Interesting to note that many of you mention the Sandy Hook shooting as a catalyst for the shortages.
It seems to me the shortages started well before a year ago. Supplies have been scarce around here for well over 2 years. The only things I know for certain about the timing is that it all has been a reaction to a supposed threat to what we like to do.
I would have thought the manufacturers would be getting caught up by now. Most say they are working as many shifts of production as they can manage. Seems it still isn't enough for demand.

I realize Obama would like nothing better than to have us all disarmed. So far there have been enough congressmen listening to us to keep his policy wishes in check. How much longer this can go on I have no idea.
I do remember a quote from a congressman a few years back. I can't remember which one but it fits a lot of them.

He said" I am not against guns. I just don't want anyone to have them but my own people."

[MTtimberline]

Very simple answer btroj. HOMELAND SECURITY and a lot of other gov't. agencies including the usps bought millions of round of ammunition and still have orders not filled which comes first before ammunition goes out to the public sector.
USPS buying ammo? Are they planning on going postal?

[btroj]

So homeland security buying 40 S&W ammo caused a shortage in H4831? What about Varget, made in Australia. What about Vihtavouri powders from Europe?
How does a handgun ammo purchase cause disruption in the supply chain for rifle and shotgun powders? Or in powder made overseas?

Again, this is all BS. These powders are not made in the same country nor used for the same type of ammo.

Me thinks some people need to check the fit on their tinfoil hats, I think it is sliding over their eyes and causing visual problems, they can't seem to see reality.....

[rhead]

How did the government cause part of the supply problem? Did they lay off workers? Close plants? Interfere with supply chains? Are they buying up powder stocks?

I keep hearing about how the government is behind this but nobody ever knows how! Come on guys, share the info! Precisely how did the government cause the supply problem?

The government did not cause it by creating a supply problem. Because of stated desires of people in positions of power many people came to the conclusion that guns, ammo, and components would increase in price and acted. This created a demand problem. Some acted out of paranoia, some out of far sightedness some actually wanted them for their own use and decided to bite the bullet and make the purchase now. Others decided to wait. The ones who made the purchases early are glad that they did except for those who were planning on reselling and waited too long.
Many of the ones who waited are yelling hoarding instead of saying "Well c**p i missed that one."
It was not caused by government action but by threats of government action.

[btroj]

That is exactly what happened. It was a perceived threat so people panicked. Demand rose far faster than supply was ever going to keep up with.

What it was NOT is any sort of direct government action. It isn't a conspiracy.

[rhead]

That is exactly what happened. It was a perceived threat so people panicked. Demand rose far faster than supply was ever going to keep up with.

What it was NOT is any sort of direct government action. It isn't a conspiracy.



"The ones who "Panicked" early enough are the ones with plenty of ammo to shoot and reloading with eighteen dollar a pound powder and fifteen dollar a thousand primers.

Whether it was on purpose or not I have no idea. If you were the POTUS and wanted this to happen what would you do? I agree that he is also stupid enough to do it by accident. Do you deny that he is above doing it on purpose?

[garym1a2]

We can thank Obama for making millions of new gun owners and selling tens of millions of guns.

I was in Walmart yesterday, they had plenty of ammo, 40,45,223,308,12awg,... They just don't have 9mm and 22's. You can now find $600 AR15's again. I brought small pistol primers last month in a gun store of $29 a brick/1k.

[62chevy]

NO, the media didn't cause the shortage.

We, shooters and reloaders, caused the problem. We saw a perceived threat to our hobby and we began to stock up. Supplies got a bit tight and panic set in. No different than a run on anything else.

Face it, people are very easy to panic. Look at generators and such with the Y2K scare.

You're right btroj my Wife and I caused the shortage by panicking at what the media said and buying 5 guns, ammo and reloading supplies. All in 2013 and for the first time. But it was still how the media was talking about the gun ban that got my butt in gear. They, the media, had that air of confidence that finally guns would be banned.

[btroj]

"The ones who "Panicked" early enough are the ones with plenty of ammo to shoot and reloading with eighteen dollar a pound powder and fifteen dollar a thousand primers.

Whether it was on purpose or not I have no idea. If you were the POTUS and wanted this to happen what would you do? I agree that he is also stupid enough to do it by accident. Do you deny that he is above doing it on purpose?

I don't think he is smart enough to intentionally cause a component panic. Ammo maybe, components, no. I doubt he really knows about reloaders.

What he did do is make millions of people buy guns they might not have bout otherwise. I know many who bought a gun just because politicians said they shouldn't.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

So homeland security buying 40 S&W ammo caused a shortage in H4831? What about Varget, made in Australia. What about Vihtavouri powders from Europe?
How does a handgun ammo purchase cause disruption in the supply chain for rifle and shotgun powders? Or in powder made overseas?

Again, this is all BS. These powders are not made in the same country nor used for the same type of ammo.

Me thinks some people need to check the fit on their tinfoil hats, I think it is sliding over their eyes and causing visual problems, they can't seem to see reality.....

Absolutely correct. I recall the mid '90s when a rumor started in this area, ( Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso, Las Cruces), that there was going to be a shortage of primers. That started a buying frenzy, and sure enough, there was a shortage. For about a year, the only primers to be found were 209 shotshell. The claim was the government was buying all of them to keep them out of the hands of reloaders. Hogwash. True, 40 S&W has nothing to do with H4831, but people will always try to shift the blame to others. I bought powder from Jeff Bartlett in the '90s, but didn't try to buy all he had, only what I needed. Now, the local boys buy every pound they can find, even though they they have no use for it. I have less than most of them, yet they call me a hoarder.

[TXGunNut]

Very simple answer btroj. HOMELAND SECURITY and a lot of other gov't. agencies including the usps bought millions of round of ammunition and still have orders not filled which comes first before ammunition goes out to the public sector.

Must be true, we all read it on the Internet!

[PbHurler]

"We, shooters and reloaders, caused the problem. We saw a perceived threat to our hobby and we began to stock up."

Winner winner chicken dinner

[462]

A forum poll shows that 60% of Cast Boolit members have increased their supply of primers and powder. No magic, no governmental smoke and mirrors tricks, no conspiracy involved. We created the shortage.

[starmac]

Compared to a lot of guys, I don't have much, but I have done my share with the shortage thing myself.

[samwithacolt]

I don't have a lot of powder, but with the shortages I'm more likely to buy two pounds than one when it becomes available. The longer the shelves are empty in a store, the faster the goods will go out again when stock comes in.

[Love Life]

^^Buy it buy the keg and don't get married to a specific powder.

[btroj]

^^Buy it buy the keg and don't get married to a specific powder.


Yep. I bought Promo instead of Red dot. Would have been equally happy with 231/HP38 or Green dot.

And 2 pounds is nothing. I bought 2 eight pounders of 2400 in the past year.

[Love Life]

I know where all the BLC-2 3rd Gen had in January went...

[btroj]

Now I do too......

[str8shot426]

Guilty....

-of keeping more components on hand than before.
-of buying 6 guns in the last 2 years.
-of getting the whole family into shooting sports.
-of stocking up.

Sorry....it's my fault.

[btroj]

Any remorse? I sure as hell hope not.....

[str8shot426]

How do I sleep at night!

[btroj]

How do I sleep at night!

Like a baby I bet. Just like me.

[trochilids]

It speaks well of CastBoolits in general that it has been able to absorb all the new reloaders with the success, at last from my perspective, that it has. Look at the Join Dates and you'll see quite a few in early to mid 2013 --[smilie=1: [smilie=1: I'm happy to see those who've been here many years -- those with thousands of post counts -- still willing to let the newcomers into the sandbox. I think it's likely that the majority of the 2013 entrances have contributed most heavily to the powder shortage. I know in our house we went form zero to 8 guns in two years, fortunately with a wife wanting to keep up with me. But I also think that with proper education we will also be able to make a positive contribution among the ranks of those who stand solidly for freedom. I, for one, still consider myself enrolled in liberty university.

[btroj]

I don't know about noobs causing much of the shortage. I think the old timers stocked up too. I know I have far more on hand now than I have in the past.

All I care is that things seem to be settling down some. I can find primers and powder in my local stores so I am happy. Even better is that I can find them in my local basement!

[tazman]

I think many people who were borderline interested in shooting sports became worried their hobby was going to be taken away.
They felt as long as they had supplies, they would be ok. So they stocked up. It then snowballed.
When the demand outstripped the supply, panic set in. Not just for the newbies, but also for the established shooters who could no longer easily get the supplies as they were used to.
Now we have manufacturers who are still afraid, even after years of high demand, to invest in increased capacity. To a certain extent, I think some of them perceive an opportunity to increase prices and therefore profits from the situation. They don't really want the demand to decrease, but at the same time they don't want to spend money on capacity that may not be needed in the future.
We consumers are now caught in the bind.
Not much we can do except be patient and wait for supplies to become more readily available.
Just one problem with that.
I want my supplies NOW blast it!

[rintinglen]

I don't know about noobs causing much of the shortage. I think the old timers stocked up too. I know I have far more on hand now than I have in the past.

All I care is that things seem to be settling down some. I can find primers and powder in my local stores so I am happy. Even better is that I can find them in my local basement!

+1 I have bought more guns, powders I don't normally use, 10 years normal shooting worth of primers. Panic? I like to think of it as prudence, as in ant and grasshopper.
I'll be shooting long past Obummer, and I have no remorse about buying in excess of my current needs.

And I'd buy more 22's too. if I could find them.

[Beekeeper]

I saw this comming back when slick willie was pres.
I started stocking up back then and only buy now when I run short or find something on sale at same or near prices.

I watch Powder Valley every day and when they have something I want or need I buy it.
They seem to have the best prices around.

There are only a couple of things I need now and am reluctant to buy as I would only use the once or twice so I hesitate to spring for them.


beekeeper

[detox]

I have been shooting Tin Star n32c powder lately with verygood results. It has very low velocity spread, fills case well and will shoot in many calibers using lead or jacketed bullets. Handloader magazine Feb 2014 issue 288 has a verygood article about this powder.

Here is a verygood price on Tin Star powder. I ordered 4 pounds from these guys and they provided tracking number and shipped within one week.
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,1436.html

[Love Life]

Now if only I could get about 40 lbs of Retumbo I would be happy. Ramshot magnum works, but Retumbo is mo' better.

[stinjie]

Trochilids,I also went from 0 to many handguns as you did.But we live in the lower 48 in Pa.You must have moved to Alaska in the past 2 years, because isn't it a requirement to own nothing smaller than a 44 mag.,due to grizzlies and wolves coming over for coffee ?Just kidding!The blame of supply shortage must really be my fault.Gas prices gone sky-high caused me to get out of hot-rodding and racing,so I needed a new hobby.The guns don't break like the cars did.Actually It's my wifes fault.She likes larger calibers than small ones.Bigger means more powder.Yup,It's all her fault,feel free to give her hell.But,she IS an awesome shooter!

[tazman]

stinjie wrote:Yup,It's all her fault,feel free to give her hell.But,she IS an awesome shooter!

Only if I can do it from beyond rifle range!
I have seen POed women shoot before and I don't want them shooting at me.

[trochilids]

Trochilids,I also went from 0 to many handguns as you did.But we live in the lower 48 in Pa.You must have moved to Alaska in the past 2 years, because isn't it a requirement to own nothing smaller than a 44 mag.,due to grizzlies and wolves coming over for coffee ?Just kidding!

Honestly, I tend to lean more toward bear spray for protection from the largest warm-blooded critters in the woods. Until Congress makes rumbles about banning capsaicin, I'm probably good. Or maybe UDAP or Counter Assault "high capacity" canisters will be outlawed and everyone will rush on 9 ounce cans. If that's the case I'm screwed. Haven't found a good "Cast Pepper" site, yet. :Fire:

[rhead]

I don't know about noobs causing much of the shortage. I think the old timers stocked up too. I know I have far more on hand now than I have in the past.

All I care is that things seem to be settling down some. I can find primers and powder in my local stores so I am happy. Even better is that I can find them in my local basement![/I]

I realized that in the future ammo and components would be difficult to find and more expensive. I decided to not be inconvenienced by market conditions.

[tazman]

I caught a break today! I called my best supplier(a semi-local gun shop, 60 miles one way) and asked if he had any powder. He told me he just finished putting some on the shelf. I managed to get 6 pounds of it at $19per lb. He also had some primers so I got 8000 of those.
I should be set for a while.
After I got back home 90 minutes later I called him again and he said all the powder and primers were gone already.

[Airman Basic]

Honestly, I tend to lean more toward bear spray for protection from the largest warm-blooded critters in the woods. Until Congress makes rumbles about banning capsaicin, I'm probably good. Or maybe UDAP or Counter Assault "high capacity" canisters will be outlawed and everyone will rush on 9 ounce cans. If that's the case I'm screwed. Haven't found a good "Cast Pepper" site, yet. :Fire:
Okay, 1 more time


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