223 or 224?

[crow531]

When reloading we routinely size bullets 1or 2 thousands over bore size, for 224 we go 225 or 226, for 308 we go 309 to 310, for 357 we size 358, 359 even 360. Why then is it so terrible to shoot a 224 in a 223 bore. Many of the articles I read imply that the gun is going to blow up and maim the shooter. If we can fire bullets 1 or 2 thousand over in most bores why not the 223.

[AlaskanGuy]

When shooting cast, it is pretty much required.

[aspangler]

When reloading we routinely size bullets 1or 2 thousands over bore size, for 224 we go 225 or 226, for 308 we go 309 to 310, for 357 we size 358, 359 even 360. Why then is it so terrible to shoot a 224 in a 223 bore. Many of the articles I read imply that the gun is going to blow up and maim the shooter. If we can fire bullets 1 or 2 thousand over in most bores why not the 223.
I just miked my j words and they all ran at .224.

[lefty o]

jacketed bullets for .223's are .224".

[Wolfer]

I believe most if not all modern 22 cal center fire are a 224 grove. Some if not all of the old 22 hornet were 223 grove.

I'm sure you could push a 224 jacketed bullet down a 223 groove barrel but pressure will be higher I suspect.

[GabbyM]

.225" for SAMI chambers .227" for NATO chambers.

I size my bullets to .225” and that’s all the larger my Lyman mold drops. A SAMI chamber in 223 Rem has a throat free bore diameter with a target dimension of .2245”. 5.56mm NATO chambers are specified at .2270”. Or plus .0025” over SAMI 223 spec. thus for a NATO chamber AR-15 you can safely assume you’ll want a .227” bullet to fill that throat. You don’t have to. I’ve shot my .225’ bullets in my NATO chamber AR with 12 twist barrel. It shoots OK. Better at 100 yards than ball M193 shoots. But it could be better.
NOE has some 22 bullets that will make .227” finished. I have 223 bolt guns to shoot cast so my .225” boolit is fine for my needs.

One thing all of us know here. If you have a .225” throat shooting a larger cast bullet down it does not good. Since the bullet will just get sized down in the free bore. Often times that will work fine and people shoot lots of as cast bullets tumble lubed. But for 22 CF you’ll need a gas check to run over 1200 fps so you usually end up with a sizer.

If you size down a 22 boolit to .223 it will just bump up to free bore diameter as it bounces along. Unless it's to hard. Then you'll get gas blow by.

[GabbyM]

When reloading we routinely size bullets 1or 2 thousands over bore size, for 224 we go 225 or 226, for 308 we go 309 to 310, for 357 we size 358, 359 even 360. Why then is it so terrible to shoot a 224 in a 223 bore. Many of the articles I read imply that the gun is going to blow up and maim the shooter. If we can fire bullets 1 or 2 thousand over in most bores why not the 223.

To answer the guns blowing up tale. Sounds like just another anti cast person. WE are after all an oppressed minority.

If you make cast bullets then run them through a sizer you know how much pressure it takes to size them down. That force does effect powder ignition and pressure curve. but that's what your load is set up to do. Plus that pressure is doddle squat compared to engraving rifling into a hard jacketed hunting bullet. Thought process there is. If shooting soft slippery lead down a bore will blow it up. What does copper do then?

[Blue2]

As you probably have heard that an "expert" is someone who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutly everything about nothing. Personal observation is that generally lead bullets have to be larger than groove diameter to shoot well. But then alloy mixture has a lot to do with this as well. A softer bullet and particularily a flat base bullet can "upset" and fill the bore and shoot well even if it would normally be considered undersize.
There was gentleman in Australia who has since passed on (natural causes ) who used to sell extruder barrels. These were .172 and .204 barrels with a special chamber with a tapered throat that allowed 22lr ammo to be fired and sized down to groove diameter as the bullet speed down the bore. They work well, I have a 204 extruder reamer myself. In jacketed bullets if you have a long burnt throat you can upsize a few thousands with accuracy gains and no danger. Speer used to sell Lapua target bullets that were .309 or possibly slightly larger to put back some accuracy in worn target barrels. No longer because lawyers would have a field day with that today.
I have a special made 7.62X39 reamer that I use on .308 bore barrels that will allow me to use both 310 and 308 bullets in my rifle. The important thing is to have a long tapered transitional throat.Then pressure does not spike as the bullet has a run before it gets full engagement in the bore.
I have a number of small frame martini rifles that have been converted from long rifle to centerfire calibers. Now that is a squeeze ! Basically looking at load data you have have to down load because of the tighter bore. What would show in a loading manual as a starting load will probably be your maximum load. They shoot great and once down loaded there are no pressure signs.

[shredder]

I size my castto .225 for my .223. Having perused many manuals and technical reports it amazes me that cartridges are named the way they are. Especially in the .22 family. Thinking that the .220 swift must be .220 and the .223 is .223 and the .225 winchester is .225 and so on. It simply is not the case at all.

[otter5555]

i size my 22 boolets all .225

[gnoahhh]

I size my .22 bullets to fit the throat, whether that coincides with groove diameter or not.

In the early days of .22CF development, a heckuva lot of Hornets were made from .22RF barrels (the best of the lot being those made from M1922, M1, M2 rifles). That was the reason a lot of .22 jacketed bullets were made .223" diameter, and most likely the reason why .223 diameter bullets were made into recent years. Heck, maybe they still are, but I haven't seen any. Years ago when I was playing with a converted LoWall in .22 Hornet, and an M2 Springfield in .22K-Hornet, I was the guy who kept the shelves cleared of .223" diameter jacketed bullets, as they shot decidedly better than .224's.

[giericd]

I am new to reloading and just starting to cast. I have reloaded about 200precision rounds for my bushmaster AR15 and fired about 100 reloads through it. All were jacketed bullets, they are Speer spitzer BT and it says .224 on the box, same with the Nosler ballistic tips. According to Lyman #49 they are the right bullets. Haven't loaded any of the Nosler yet but I can tell you the .224 Speer shoots a 3 shot clover leaf at 100, they are very accurate!

[crow531]

I believe most if not all modern 22 cal center fire are a 224 grove. Some if not all of the old 22 hornet were 223 grove.

I'm sure you could push a 224 jacketed bullet down a 223 groove barrel but pressure will be higher I suspect.

This was one of the ones I wondered about. How high would it raise your pressure? If your started to develop a load 10% below max. would you have a serious problem

[btroj]

Don't confuse jacketed and cast behavior with over sized bullets.

[leftiye]

I size my .224 cast boolits for my .22 Hornet to .228. Enjoy.

Fill your leade as much as possible if it is larger than your groove diameter. Even if you have to open the chamber neck to allow cartridge to chamber as I had to in this case. Lead boolit pressures will be fine (because you won't overload them - right?).

[leftiye]

Dern, killed another wone.

[Kos1966]

My mold is a rcbs 225. I size at 225 after powder coating and gas checking.

[swheeler]

When reloading we routinely size bullets 1or 2 thousands over bore size, for 224 we go 225 or 226, for 308 we go 309 to 310, for 357 we size 358, 359 even 360. Why then is it so terrible to shoot a 224 in a 223 bore. Many of the articles I read imply that the gun is going to blow up and maim the shooter. If we can fire bullets 1 or 2 thousand over in most bores why not the 223.

You are confusing the name of a cartridge 223(223 Remington) with groove diameter/bullet diameter. According to this train of thought a 300 Savage/300 Winchester Mag/300 H&h Mag etc. would shoot a .300" jacketed bullet.

[Texas by God]

I think I have a box or more of Sierra .223" 45gr sp if anybody needs them. Best, Thomas.

[swheeler]

Those .223" bullets are for the 22 Hornet

[SSGOldfart]

And 22 K hornet in some older rifles.

[swheeler]

Yes I think sometime shortly after WWII .224" groove was adopted for all 22 center fire. Several bullet manufacturers produced .223" bullets to feed these older Hornets, most boxes are marked as such (Hornet)