Handloader .357 bear loads article

[Thumbcocker]

Just glanced through the article last. I hear that all the big manufacturers are working on special .357 grizz revolvers. The rumor is that the guns will have no front sights and be made of structural chocolate.

[Wayne Smith]

What color for sarcasm??

[bhn22]

Just glanced through the article last. I hear that all the big manufacturers are working on special .357 grizz revolvers. The rumor is that the guns will have no front sights and be made of structural chocolate.

Fixed it!

[white eagle]

what do they shoot for bullets cayenne pepper

[David LaPell]

I read it and was surprised that for a heavier bullet over the 158 grain variety there was no testing at all with a 170 grain #358429. It seems to me that this would be one that with its track record and performance over the years that it would have been in there. I carry a .357 in the woods because its what I shoot the best and if I can't do it with the 358429 bullets I might as well stop trying.

[bhn22]

358429 won't chamber in S&W N frames in 357 mag brass. You can however load it in 38 Spl cases using 38-44 loads.

[376Steyr]

True story. Years ago one of the kids at the office asked what revolver he should take for grizzly bear protection while fishing in Alaska. I considered what I knew of his marksmanship and replied, "A .357 with a four inch barrel." He was surprised at this. "Isn't that a little light for shooting a bear?" he asked. "Oh no," I said. "Its not for the bear, its for you when you get tired of the bear chewing on you."

[Maven]

358429 won't chamber in S&W N frames in 357 mag brass. You can however load it in 38 Spl cases using 38-44 loads.

It won't chamber in my Dan Wesson either. Brian Pearce's solution is to trim the .357Mag. case to 1.25" and then seat and crimp Ly. #358429 normally.

[rhead]

It won't chamber in my Dan Wesson either. Brian Pearce's solution is to trim the .357Mag. case to 1.25" and then seat and crimp Ly. #358429 normally.


It will fit in both of mine. Probably minor variations in the moulds. Mine weighs in at 168 gr.

I have a 44 Rossi levergun that i had to trim the brass for to get it to feed right. A lot less permanent that altering the cartridge carrier in case of an oops.

[bob208]

why would you trim .357 cases back to almost .38 length ? 358429 works just fine in .357 cases when seated deep and crimped on the front driving band. I did that for years. the distance from the base of the bullet to the head of the case is almost the same.

I guess that the bears are like the deer they have evolved . into a tougher animal. I am not saying they are not mean. but back in the day they were killed with .44-40 and .45 colt b-p loads. one was even reported by T.R. on his hunting trip.

[Maven]

"Why would you trim .357 cases back to almost .38 length ? 358429 works just fine in .357 cases when seated deep and crimped on the front driving band?"

That's what Lyman recommends, but it raises pressure significantly and resulted in miserable accuracy in my gun. Pearce's method worked, but I wasn't happy about the shorter cases.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

The 4" 357 is easy to kill a bear with, just jam it down his throat and choke him to death.
CF

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I couldn't believe that article either. I have a buddy who shot and put a large black bear down with a .38 with target loads. Ruined a perfectly good pair of underwear. He went out and got a .44 Mag right away. He was in an area of Alaska where there are a lot of black bear in the resort he worked at. The bears were used to humans and they fed off the garbage dump. One of these black bears was 500 pounds and had a 22 inch skull, it was not a game kill. They had to kill a bear if it got too aggressive with the tourists.

So the story goes when he got up that day he never thought about shooting a bear with a .38 Special. He was with a bunch of guys close to the resort and there was this one bear that had to be killed. The guy with the .30-06 jerked his shot and the bear took off, everybody went running after it. When they -I used the term loosely, caught up to the bear in the woods it turned on "them." My buddy turned to point out the bear's location to the guy with the rifle. There was no one around. So he peppered the ear of the bear with 6 quick .38 Specials from his favorite K frame Smith. He saw the bear roll it's eyes and he turned and got out of there.

[MtGun44]

While I would, will and have selected .44 Mag for my bear gun, if someone cannot
deal with .44 Mag recoil well, I think a 358429 loaded to max velocity with a
slow powder, in a K-frame or better, a Security Six or GP100 Ruger, due to robustness
would actually work to stop a griz if the rounds are placed well. You should
be able to launch these at 1300 fps from a 4" bbl, maybe more.

I think the issue is that you need deep, straight penetration. NO pistol is anywhere
near as powerful as a medium rifle, like a .30-30, so you have to "drill deep" and
place the rounds where they hit either major nerve centers or major blood
vessels. In my study, it appears that aiming for the base of the skull area
would be the most likely to produce quick incapacitation. The depth required
there is no more than 18" from most angles.

The pure frontal shot would be the most problematic since it is probably that
boolits may deflect off of the skull at many angles. I think the end of the nose
would be the best shot then.

None of this is a trivial level of difficulty, and under the literal life-or-death pressure,
it is probably even more difficult. Use of ANY weight HP or expanding bullets/boolits would
be absolute folly, unlikely to penetrate deep enough to do anything but make
the animal even more angry.

In any case, I think it is way off the mark to think that a moderately hard
Keith type non-expanding .357 175 gr boolit cannot do the job. Federal used to
make (may still) a 180 gr LBT-style cast boolit load that was very powerful and very
accurate in my testing. If not a handloader, this would be a good alternative.
I have not researched it, but it is highly likely that Buffalo Bore offers a good
load in this class, too. This is their stock in trade.

Best possible choice? Heck no. High probability of success if the shooter
cannot handle a .44 Magnum or larger? Yes.

I have and will hike and hunt in grizzly and wolf country and will not go unarmed,
and have thought about this a lot and tested ammo many times for this
mission.

Bill

[johniv]

What mtgun44 said, also in Handloader a few years ago ,Phil Shoemaker (sp) wrote a similar piece with the same conclusions "deep penatration and accurate placement" Now I dont hike in griz country nor have I ever shot one with a handgun ,but, Mr Shoemaker is a guide in Alaska and has probably killed or seen killed more bears than I will ever see, so I took his opinion as seriously .
FWIW
John

[wlc]

The best cast boolit load for bear protection comes out the end of a 12 guage shotgun. Just from what I've gathered since moving up here is that 44 mag is considered the minimum for a bear medicine handgun. I would also add that, to me, if you can't accurately shoot a 44 mag (or larger) under pressure then what you can will be better than nothing. As in most things we do with firearms its all about shot placement.

[Mk42gunner]

As in most things we do with firearms its all about shot placement.

Would I like to stop a bear of any sort with a 4" .357 Magnum? NO.

Would it be better than poking it in the eye with a sharp stick? Probably, unless the stick was about eight feet long with a foot or so of sharp steel on the end of it.

Robert

[jmort]

A hot 180 grain WFN would be the best option. Would go around 4 feet, or more, into the bear. For sure you can kill any bear on earth with a 180 grain WFN. I would take pepper spray over most handguns. No one has ever died using pepper spray.

[cricco]

I killed a 400 lb Blackbear with a S&W .40 using black talons. It had been hit by a car, and wasn't in any shape to chase me. It did the trick, but I had plenty of time to aim for its ear. After inspecting the wound, that round pierced the skull......barely enough to kill it. Just my own experience with bears.

[Airman Basic]

A hot 180 grain WFN would be the best option. Would go around 4 feet, or more, into the bear. For sure you can kill any bear on earth with a 180 grain WFN. I would take pepper spray over most handguns. No one has ever died using pepper spray.

Time for this again
93429

[rhead]

why would you trim .357 cases back to almost .38 length ? 358429 works just fine in .357 cases when seated deep and crimped on the front driving band. I did that for years. the distance from the base of the bullet to the head of the case is almost the same.

I guess that the bears are like the deer they have evolved . into a tougher animal. I am not saying they are not mean. but back in the day they were killed with .44-40 and .45 colt b-p loads. one was even reported by T.R. on his hunting trip.

People used to kill them by sticking wooden sticks into their sides. The wooly mammoth was hunted to extinction by the same people.

[bob208]

where they magnum sticks or just standard sticks?

[shtur]

I've seen 16 black bears taken with a 44 Mag. Each bear traveled 10-40 yards before expiring. If that writer came up here to grizzly country with a pork chop around his neck, he wouldn't write BS anymore and a bear would have a nice 357 for his den.

[HiVelocity]

Well, I was told when I lived in Alaska, "regardless what pistol you have, shoot the bear 5 times............." (and yes, I had a 6 shot revolver).

Personally, I've been playing with the NOE version (full profile and HP) of the RanchDog 359-175-RF; I shoot it in my .357 Marlin, and will be using it in my 686. I think its a good bullet with quality weapons, should do well in any situation. Just my .02 worth.

HV

[FergusonTO35]

Given my miserable shooting skills, if I had to protect myself from a bear with a handgun it would be a 9mm with a full mag of FMJ. They may be small but penetrate into next week, easy to shoot, and there are 15 of them instead of 5 or 6.

[robertbank]

Next spring/summer I will be carrying a Mossberg 12G shotgun or Rossi 44Mag Carbine and either my Flat Top BH .45Colt or my GP-100 in a chest rig. Both pistols we be loaded with LSWC Keith bullets. Shoulder /Hip shots will stop the bear if available or any head shot. I'll be making lots of noise and likely will never see either a BB or Grizzly.

Take Care

Bob