Noob, swaging on a budget?

[Buckshot Bill]

I would like to get set up to swage without breaking the bank. I would mainly be interested in swaging .224 bullets from .22 cases, .429 jacketed softpoints, and maybe .308 open tip or hollow point. That would 100% be the extent of my swaging, I cast for everything else. Maybe swage airgun pellets some day but I have about 20k laid back so I don't have to worry about those for a long time. I have done some reading and watching and have a general idea of how the process works but wanted opinions on a good (but cost effective) press and die recommendations. I was hoping to get set up for around $1k but the more I look the more I realize that probably isn't possible. So, any pointers you could give a noobie wannabe lead smasher would be much appreciated.

[Reload3006]

the best at the lowest cost is going to be Dr. Larry Blackmon. Get prepared to wait no matter who you go with. In my opinion if your not a machinist or tool n die maker there is no such thing as swaging on a budget. I went with RCE LLC for my 223 i was about $1800 then its going to be around 600 a caliber unless you want lead tipped and boat tail dies. then your looking at around a grand plus or minus a buck to me well worth the money as I am not beholden to anyone for any of my bullets.

[BT Sniper]

?????? good questions....

I tell everyone to buy a 40 cal :) there isn't many bullets easier or cheaper then making perfect 40 cal bullets from scrap 9mm brass. The 44s can be made on exactly the same concept but they are bigger and bigger means more pressure needed to form the bullet. So a decent press is needed. I swage my 44s on a Lee Classic but I modified the linkage to give me more power.

You can swage your 44s quite easily from 40 S&W brass and get perfect 255 grain bullets. If you annealed your cases properly and used pure soft lead you can get away with using any decent reloading press for your 44s then the cost of the die is only $325!

Here are my 255 grain 44s from 40 S&W brass!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070392.jpg


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070376.jpg


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/recovered44.jpg


22 cal dies are more expensive but easily made on any decent reloading press or Blackmon's press. 22 cal is also a good choice to start with.

Do a bit of research here, ask questions, everything you need to know can be found here!

Not exactly sure on total cost for Blackmon's probably about $600-$800 and the 44 cal bullets are easy at only $325. That would get you shooting your own bullets for under or around a grand! But then it is like any other hobby, you might just like it and then there is all sorts of fun stuff to spend your extra $ on :)

Welcome to swaging!

God shooting

BT

[Buckshot Bill]

Thanks for the info fellas! I'm sure I'll end up spending way more in additional tooling than I would ever save over buying premade bullets but where's the fun in that? Blackmon is looking pretty good, his site lists a press and a 3 die set for $595 which seems like a really good deal add another $400 +/- after the funds recuperate for an additional set of dies and it looks like I'd be in business for a touch over a grand after shipping costs, that's what I was hoping for. I'm assuming most dies interchange between swaging press brands or would I be mistaken in that assumption? I have a decent supply of .40 brass and no .40 to reload for so they would most definitely get turned into .44 bullets. I'd just like to be independent of suppliers for my projectiles whether they be cast or jacketed.

[Reload3006]

you are mistaken. Corbin M dies and Blackmon dies sorta interchange but the rest not you can use Bt sniper dies in a walnut hill and a corbin S press and the mega might but your pretty much stuck. when you choose a guy to go with.

[Utah Shooter]

Not sure if I totally agree with that ^^^ It depends on the type of dies that you use. If you order Blackmon dies and a ram for an RCBS press and then decide that you would like some of BT's dies then all you need is to revert back to the original ram that came stock with the RCBS.

As far as I am concerned the only maker that does not make dies that would fit into a reloading press is RCE.

[Lizard333]

RCE doesn't make dies to to go into a reloading press because those presses were made to RELOAD. He makes his dies to go into a SWAGING PRESS.

Time and time again, guys come into this trying to swage on the cheap. Bottom line, you will end up breaking or modifying a reloading press, because they were made to reload. Period. Sure you can use a Ford Courier to pull a 10,000 pound trailer but for how long? Get a one ton dually with a diesel and NEVER haver to worry about towing the same trailer.

In my opinion, it only makes sense, if your serious, to pay the 450$ for a Walnut Hill press from RCE once, and never look back. And you can even RELOAD with it if you like.

As far as dies, you can get BT to make his dies for the Walnut hill press. RCS's dies are also top notch, and you will be very happy.

Unfortunately, without the tooling and knowledge as a machinist, this in not a pour mans hobby. Bite the bullet, save your coin, and do it right the first time.

Good news to help you save. Order your stuff now and begin adding to your 1000$. It will most likely take a year to get your stuff. Plenty of time to save the rest.

[Reload3006]

Not sure if I totally agree with that ^^^ It depends on the type of dies that you use. If you order Blackmon dies and a ram for an RCBS press and then decide that you would like some of BT's dies then all you need is to revert back to the original ram that came stock with the RCBS.

As far as I am concerned the only maker that does not make dies that would fit into a reloading press is RCE.
I was just going to let this go but respectfully you dont know what your talking about. I happen to own Larry Blackmons RCBS conversion and even did a youtube video on installing it and using it. It is a good option as well but the mans question was can you use anyone's dies in any press unless I misunderstood his question. The correct answer to that is NO YOU CANNOT. Yes you can use BT's dies in a reloading press BT has a great reputation and makes good dies. Corbin MFG and Blackmon make reloading press dies too but recommend against them. As Lizard said you can use any reloading press dies in a Walnut Hill or a Corbin MFG press You cannot use reloading press dies in Dr Blackmons Press or the Corbin M press or mightymight. You can in all others. If you get the Blackmon bss press you can use corbin M dies and Dr blackmons dies but you have to use dr blackmon's punches they dont work. is there work arounds? Sure there are but they aren't very good and I would not recommend doing that. There really is not a bad option out there I own Blackmon gear Corbin MFG gear and RCE gear.

[Cane_man]

the cheapest way to get into swaging is to make your own dies... if you already have the lathe and tooling and know the basics of using them, and enjoy making things with your hands, you can easily make a set of those 40SW to 44mag for less than $100...

edit: and you don't have to do any threading either :)

edit: this also assumes you have a reloading press that is built strong enough for swaging like a Rockchucker or Lee Cast press

[303british.com]

the cheapest way to get into swaging is to make your own dies... if you already have the lathe and tooling and know the basics of using them, and enjoy making things with your hands, you can easily make a set of those 40SW to 44mag for less than $100...

Most people do not own a lathe. Many lathe owners do not know how to use them to make dies. For these people, which I believe are the overwhelming majority, buying pre-made dies from either of the Corbin Bros is the best option.

You certainly cannot get into bullet making cheaply. If you have spent money previously on a lathe or CNC machine, and know how to use the equipment, then the materials will only set you back $100, but the expense is still up there. At any rate, this group is a clear minority.

[Utah Shooter]

you are mistaken. Corbin M dies and Blackmon dies sorta interchange but the rest not you can use Bt sniper dies in a walnut hill and a corbin S press and the mega might but your pretty much stuck. when you choose a guy to go with.


I was just going to let this go but respectfully you dont know what your talking about.

Perhaps I was a bit confused by your bad grammar or your lack of a link to "Yoda Speak". You mean to tell me I cannot use R-Type dies in an RCBS press as well as Walnut Hill? Heck you can even use them in a Redding RELOADING Press.

You were going to let it go respectfully? Lets stop with the quaint civilities.

His question was,
I'm assuming most dies interchange between swaging press brands or would I be mistaken in that assumption? The thing that you are leaving out Reload (in answering Bills question), and I know that Lizard does not agree with is...... You do not have to have a dedicated swage press to swage projectiles. I think we should think back to when we were starting to make bullets. Think of what may slip our minds as common sense now but may be huge to the beginner.

Go check out http://www.precisionballisticsllc.com/How_I_Build_My_Bulle.html I do not see one "SWAGE" press in his shop unless I am mistaken. Sure the bigger the better but I do not have to use an f-350 to tow an aluminum boat either.

OP, I think you should do some more digging and not just go with the usual suspect. Check out this other link that is right here on the page. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156256-What-press-do-you-use-to-swage How many people are using "RELOADING" presses there to make bullets? Revert to BT suggesting "If you annealed your cases properly and used pure soft lead you can get away with using any decent reloading press for your 44s".

Reload, perhaps it is not just answering his question but helping out a bit further than he asked. Just a suggestion to you, respectfully of course!

P.S. I have upgraded from RCBS press to a BSS Press.

[Reload3006]

Perhaps I was a bit confused by your bad grammar or your lack of a link to "Yoda Speak". You mean to tell me I cannot use R-Type dies in an RCBS press as well as Walnut Hill? Heck you can even use them in a Redding RELOADING Press.

You were going to let it go respectfully? Lets stop with the quaint civilities.

His question was, The thing that you are leaving out Reload (in answering Bills question), and I know that Lizard does not agree with is...... You do not have to have a dedicated swage press to swage projectiles. I think we should think back to when we were starting to make bullets. Think of what may slip our minds as common sense now but may be huge to the beginner.

Go check out http://www.precisionballisticsllc.com/How_I_Build_My_Bulle.html I do not see one "SWAGE" press in his shop unless I am mistaken. Sure the bigger the better but I do not have to use an f-350 to tow an aluminum boat either.

OP, I think you should do some more digging and not just go with the usual suspect. Check out this other link that is right here on the page. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156256-What-press-do-you-use-to-swage How many people are using "RELOADING" presses there to make bullets? Revert to BT suggesting "If you annealed your cases properly and used pure soft lead you can get away with using any decent reloading press for your 44s".

Reload, perhaps it is not just answering his question but helping out a bit further than he asked. Just a suggestion to you, respectfully of course!

P.S. I have upgraded from RCBS press to a BSS Press.
I agree your just another ingorant a hole fine by me.

[contender1]

Instead of name calling & starting another pizzing contest, lets see if we can keep the OP on topic.
I too have been studying swaging a lot lately, and have been TRYING to learn.
I do not enjoy rude exchanges between folks when I'm trying to learn the same things the OP is asking.
You can disagree, yes, but to fill pages with bickering does not help those who just want honest information.

I recently acquired an old Herters bullet swaging press. It does not accept 7/8 x 14 dies. Nobody sells dies for swaging for Herters anymore. Finding used ones has proven fruitless.
So, I'm trying to learn more about equipment I could use, how I can make my own dies, all to work with my Herters.

So far, I have received some excellent help in a few places. To those guys, you are very much appreciated.
I'm learning & I thank those who offer good info.

[Prospector Howard]

You know, this is one thing that I don't understand. Why the manufacturers of swaging dies decided to start making some dies with different threads than the 7/8-14 that is standard in the reloading industry. It seems to me they were trying to keep people from buying their press and then buying someone elses dies that would fit in their press so they could keep business coming their way or something. All they did was make it confusing as hell for anyone that wants to get into swaging and they ended up shooting themselves in the foot. I'm glad I don't have to worry about trying to learn about every die makers press and dies and which fit what where and other BS. I'll just make my own stuff and they can keep their long waits, high prices, and confusion.

[Reload3006]

You are correct the name calling is uncalled for. However the OP asked if you could mix and match manufacturers Tools. Further he was talking about buying a Larry Blackmon setup. IF he buys the Corbin MightyMite press or the BSS press he cannot use reloading dies in it. Without adapters he can use reloading or "R" dies in almost any reloading press. "R" type dies would be those made by BT CH4D Corbin MFG and Dr. Blackmon. Yes indeed RCE does not make "R" dies any longer. "R" dies will not work in the BSS press or the MightyMite press because of stroke length and no slotted ram.
The MightyMite and BSS press use class "M" dies the difference between Corbin and BSS is the internal punches. Some will work and you will have trouble with others. Dr Blackmon May make you Corbin type dies for a Mightymite but Corbin "at least in my conversations with Dave" He will not make you dies for your BSS press. Again the punches internal and external are different May work may not Dr. Blackmon says they have to be altered to be used in his press. IF you get the RockChucker Conversion from Dr Blackmon it too uses "M" style dies but its punches are different from the BSS and Corbin punches. So no they will not just interchange. If you go that route the newer "S" type dies will not work for you. But if you get a corbin S press you can use "M" dies in it. RCE used to make a S die conversion kit for the Walnut hill but he no longer offers it because it just doesn't work that well. The main point I am trying to get at here is If you buy the BSS Press and start off that way its best to stick with Dr Blackmon. Don't just rush out and buy a bunch of dies off of Ebay or else where and hope it will all work on the press you buy because you will be a lot of money in the hole and not able to Swage bullets.
Everyone is looking to do this on the cheap. I was too and Paid for it in the long run. It cost me more. Take anyones advise you think is worthy no skin off my nose.

[newcastter]

I was just going to let this go but respectfully you dont know what your talking about.
Is this the biggest oxy moron I have ever seen. C'mon I know you know your **** but so does Joe, there is alot of knowledge talking here why not show some respect. Would you just jump right out and say that if this were a man to man conversation 30-06? I highly doubt it. Why not just disagree and give your reasons why? I see you put a plug in for a vendor here as well, that does him no good to do that while you degrade another member here at the same time...

[R.Ph. 380]

Dang, a lot of people got up on the wrong side of the bed today! Finished with this thread!!!

[newcastter]

Dang, a lot of people got up on the wrong side of the bed today! Finished with this thread!!!
I understand it went totally south, the only person maybe to explain is 30-06, it was almost like some built up aggresion just erupted for whatever reason on this thread.

[waksupi]

Well, I guess when I get some time tomorrow, I'll come back through and start issuing infractions. We don't have many rules here, but some just can't seem to not break them. That makes more work for staff, and you then are on our radar. Never works out well for the people involved.

[contender1]

Thank you.

[jgt]

I would just like to tell the original poster: When I read that you wanted to get into swaging without breaking the bank, I thought you meant on the cheap. Your further text explained your goal as being $1K. That was a refreshingly realistic sum. I have been swaging for about fifteen years on Larry Blackmons BSS press and his dies for 44 and thirty calibers. The set up makes excellant quality bullets. My bullets shot through my 1969 Remington 700 30-06 group under an inch at a hundred yards. I also shot my only one ragged hole 44 magnum group from a Freedom arms model 83 using my swaged 240 grn hollowpoints at 25 yards. I make my swaging lube from annahydrus lanolin and castor oil. I also use cast cores in my squirt dies and j4 jackets. I consider this set up the best bang for the buck and for a home caster, when used correctly they will last a lifetime. The carbide dies that are used by commercial bullet swagers are unnecessary for the hobby shooter. A lot of benchrest shooters buy them but is way over kill for the amount of bullets they use. If one plans to sell his swaged bullets as a business then carbide dies would be the thing to use but they can be depreciated on his taxes. I believe your plan as you layed it out in the initial post is a good and realistic plan.