Need some help with my SKS. ongoing Accuracy issues.

[crackerjack57]

I have an SKS that I took out to the range again using some of the same loads that get me cloverleafs with my Norinco 7.62x39 bolt rifle. Now this SKS has been giving me issues that I have been asking about on different posts already 6 or so months ago. it just shoots like poop no matter what I do. so I just thought that I know this is an SKS but i figure it should do better than 6" at 100y. I know some of you say that its military and par for the course but im not happy with it and think it can do better. i thought to myself, what can I try to do to this thing next to help it do better. If I wreck it, I wreck it!! the thought came to mind to lap the barrel. not fire lap but pouring the slug and hand lap. what an eye opener. when the slug was running past the area where the gas tube hole enters the barrel, It was very tight. it took a lot of strokes to smooth that out. I'm wondering if this was my issue all along? i guess I will see the next time I go to the range. Any others do any hand lapping on a SKS and found similar results?

[JSnover]

Last I knew, 3 moa was the standard for military rifles. Don't remember where I saw that but it was the same for the US, Europe, and Russia. You were right, six at 100 is not good. Look for something loose or not locking up properly.

[Maven]

"Any others do any hand lapping on a SKS and found similar results?"

cj57, Never did that, but I had a brand new Type 56 with a chrome lined bbl. whose bore turned out to be .312" i.e., a larger diameter than any of the molds (Lee, Lyman) were then spec'ed at. I had Veral Smith (LBT) cut a mold based on the bore slugs I sent him and got one whose droppings fit the rifle perfectly when sized to .314". While it was occasionally capable of 1" groups @ 100 yds., it would regularly do at least that @ 50 yds. with 14grs. Alliant 2400 or AA #9 (WC 820).

I think I'd lap a bit to remove the tight spot, then slug the bore a few times before deciding on a mold. Btw, the Lee, Lyman, and LBT molds were all of the C.E. Harris design, i.e., a ~145gr. spitzer like gas checked CB with a very small meplat.

[Junior1942]

My money is on loose sights.

[crackerjack57]

no loose sights. I have a mounted scope and not one of the dust cover type. bolted right onto the receiver.

[dubber123]

no loose sights. I have a mounted scope and not one of the dust cover type. bolted right onto the receiver.

Try a different scope.

[crackerjack57]

I already tried a different scope and still have the same results. Also try iron site and again the same result.

[FAsmus]

Crackerjack;

My SKS shoots well as a single shot - that is, since it is the Yugoslavian version I disconnect the gas system and operate the bolt by hand for greater consistency - fewer parts flying around and no hunting for spent brass either!

This works for me. Hand operation of the action gives 5x1.75 groups consistently @100 yards with my cast bullet loads - I can't hold much better than that with the iron anyway.

My bullet is an old Ideal 311466 that casts at 0.3125 to fit the barrel's groove size. I load these as-cast, lubed and GC installed with a 0.314 die.

Running semi-auto opened things up considerably - I didn't bother recording the "accuracy" when using that technique since it was obvious that the trick that worked was hand operation of the rifle for accuracy.

Good evening,
Forrest

[WILCO]

I have an SKS that I took out to the range again using some of the same loads that get me cloverleafs with my Norinco 7.62x39 bolt rifle. Now this SKS has been giving me issues that I have been asking about on different posts already 6 or so months ago. it just shoots like poop no matter what I do.

What works in one rifle, doesn't mean it'll work in the next. Go to square one.
Slug the barrel. There are way too many variables to cover, so start with boolit fit, accurate load data, proper boolit lube and a barrel that's free of copper fouling. Lose the scope and work with iron sights. Like I stated earlier, too many variables. Patience and due diligence are key in matters such as this.

[crackerjack57]

On this rifle I have already gone through the whole thing. from butt to crown. slugged and all. I have gone as far as completely removing the gas system, sights, bayonet and cleaning rod and all fittings associated with those things. I machined a steel collar that slipped over the barrel to seal off the gas port so all I have is a bare Barrel with absolutely nothing connected to it and free floated. receiver is tight in the stock so no movement between the stock and action when firing. at the moment I have this SKS set up to fire only single shot. I figured that I would take everything off first, get it shooting straight and add the other parts on one at a time and after each piece added go to range and again try for accuracy. if it drastically falls off after putting the gas system back on then I would know that there is where the accuracy starts to suffer. However after I completely stripped the barrel of every accessory and free floated it it still shot like poop. I never thought of hand lapping the barrel so that was the last thing that came to mind. I guess it would be possible that when the factory drilled the gas port into the barrel there could been a bit of metal that pushed inside of the barrel and could compromise accuracy every time that the boolit passed the port area. If I go to the range and see no better results after this then there is just something wrong with the metallurgy of this barrel or something along these lines as I have come to the end of idea's.

[Larry Gibson]

What is the load that shoots so well in the other SKS but not this one?

Larry Gibson

[WILCO]

On this rifle I have already gone through the whole thing. from butt to crown. slugged and all. I have gone as far as completely removing the gas system, sights, bayonet and cleaning rod and all fittings associated with those things. I machined a steel collar that slipped over the barrel to seal off the gas port so all I have is a bare Barrel with absolutely nothing connected to it and free floated. receiver is tight in the stock so no movement between the stock and action when firing. at the moment I have this SKS set up to fire only single shot. I figured that I would take everything off first, get it shooting straight and add the other parts on one at a time and after each piece added go to range and again try for accuracy. if it drastically falls off after putting the gas system back on then I would know that there is where the accuracy starts to suffer. However after I completely stripped the barrel of every accessory and free floated it it still shot like poop. I never thought of hand lapping the barrel so that was the last thing that came to mind. I guess it would be possible that when the factory drilled the gas port into the barrel there could been a bit of metal that pushed inside of the barrel and could compromise accuracy every time that the boolit passed the port area. If I go to the range and see no better results after this then there is just something wrong with the metallurgy of this barrel or something along these lines as I have come to the end of idea's.

I repeat my earlier post:

What works in one rifle, doesn't mean it'll work in the next. Go to square one.
Slug the barrel. There are way too many variables to cover, so start with boolit fit, accurate load data, proper boolit lube and a barrel that's free of copper fouling. Lose the scope and work with iron sights. Like I stated earlier, too many variables. Patience and due diligence are key in matters such as this.

[crackerjack57]

Sorry. I probably didn't make myself clear at all about the other 7.62x39. its a Norinco bolt action and not a SKS. the only problem I have is with this SKS. I have tried many numerous other loads from military surplus to all of the ed harris suggestions and from 120 gn all the way up to a paper patched 237 gn. cast and JB'S

[Nickle]

I would first check to see if something is loose. If scoped, swap the scope out.

If all that fails, I would clean it with Sweet's 7.62 solvent, to get any copper fouling out of the bore.

All this assumes it shot well before, and has "gone bad".

And, I would do this before lapping the bore or similar things.

[crackerjack57]

nope. sorry. If you read the above threads, I have listed all of what I have done. it is clean and shot poorly right from the first shot.

[Larry Gibson]

I'll ask again; what was the load? And; what did the barrel slug out at?

It's very difficult to make a determination or educated guess if we don't have specific details.

Larry Gibson

[crackerjack57]

Sorry Larry. I misunderstood. The SKS slugs out to .304 x .311 and the loads that I shoot out of my 7.62 norinco bolt rifle are as follows; 17.2 gn 4227 pushing a 155 gn NOE round nose with a flat meplat up front. gets me 1 1/4" @ 100y on the norinco. 15.5 gn 4227 with the lee 185 gn round nosed cast. casts at .313 and i size to .312 on all. all are gas checked. the 185 gn gets about the same 1 1/4" at 100y. I have tried 2400 from 14-16 gn using the SKS boolit mold made for the sks also. poor results on the norinco and even worse on the SKS. i believe its around 155 gn GC. have also tried the original 1680 powder that is the rough equivalent to factory ammo pushing all above cast molds and also bought a box of I believe hornady 123 ish grain JB'S in various charges. always a better group with the bolt then the sks. I would expect that however what I get 2" on the bolt I would get 6-9 on the SKS and i am feeding the SKS one at a time

[Larry Gibson]

Hard to fault those loads, especially when they shoot well in the bolt gun. If the bedding is good on the SKS the 123 Hornady's should have produced at least 3 moa. Have you shot it since lapping? If it does/didn't shoot better then I would suspect the crown. I would have a slight recrown done. Sometimes while they look good, even under magnification, the crown is not perpendicular to the center of the bore.

Larry Gibson

[Junior1942]

Something is moving under recoil. Something you think is tight, isn't. Is the front of the stock acting like a recoil lug and the actual rear recoil lug isn't touching the stock?

[crackerjack57]

Hey Larry. I have not shot it since relapping. i have loads ready to go with 17.6 gn of 4227 and 155 gn noe and 16.3 gn 4227 and 185 gn lee both gas checked. just a little bit hotter than what I was working with. (about .5 gn hotter) i will test both the SKS and Norinco side by side and see whats happening. also, after lapping i also did a recrown just to make sure all bases were covered.

[crackerjack57]

and junior, you were asking if everything was tight. I assure you that everything is tight as I have gone to many measures to make sure all is tight. waaaaayyy past what anyone would do to an SKS. right now for me its the mountain that I have just got to move.

[Gunnut 45/454]

So you just loaded up these rounds that shot fine in your bolt gun and expected them to shoot just as good in your SKS! Sorry firearms don't work that way. Why don't you try a ladder test with those bullets and find the sweet spot for the SKS. I assure you it will be a different load then for your bolt gun!:roll:

[leadman]

I have a Norinco SKS from the 80s that was NOS when I bought it in Nov. 2012. The bore is just over .313". I shoot a .314" boolit (Lee Ed Harris tumble lube style) in front of H4895. THe boolit weighs about 170grs. I mounted a scope on the original cover which I tightened up in the receiver.
Does very well with the H4895, did not like the 2400, WC680, etc. Groups run around 2" at 100 yards most of the time. Have got a couple of 1 1/2" groups.
If it doesn't shoot well this time you may want to try a slower powder.

[Junior1942]

My last three scope mount jobs on new-to-me Contender barrels introduced me to the term "tolerance stack" and to mistapped holes in rings. In the cases of the tolerance stacks, on scope mounts, take a screw on the long side of its OAL tolerance and put it in a hole on the short side of its depth tolerance. You can tighten the screw as tight as you dare, but the scope mount will wiggle. The screw is bottomed out in the hole.

In the single case of mistapped rings, the screws tightened down just fine. But the bottoms of the tapped holes weren't tapped all the way through. So four tightened screws in a ring left a wiggle in the ring top.

Check your scope mount and rings.

[crackerjack57]

In regards to loads..... I know that one load that works for the bolt gun will probably not work for the SKS and ladder loads have been tried with 2400, 1680, 4227 and unique. unigue actually gave good results but at such low power that it wasn't practically useful. and ladder loads for these powders had about a 2.5 gn spread in .5 gn increments from max down. as for scope and mounting..... its defiantly not that. the scope is solid, actually both scopes were solid on the rifle with same results and either scope worked well on the bolt gun when I swapped them just to try the process of elimination. its something else with the barrel or possibly someone suggested a slower powder. the lapping might do something or the slowest powder I have is IMR 3031. I have not tried that yet. I might need to work something up with that. any suggestions using both 155 and 185 gn gas checked boolits?

[lavenatti]

So many suggestions...

The only thing left I can think of for you to check is the boolits themselves. Do they get mangled or pushed into the case when the SKS feeds them into the chamber? Have you tried ejecting an unfired round and taking a look at it?

[Thundermaker]

Does your sks have a bayonet? If so, you'll want to remove it if you want any kind of accuracy.

[crackerjack57]

absolutly everything is removed and taken off of the barrel right now including the gas chamber and even front sight for now. bayonete was first to go. and as for the boolits getting mangled......at this point to get accuracy going I am loading manually 1x1 and I have ejected an unfired round. Its pristine.

I think it might of been that tight spot where the gas port was drilled into the barrel. Its the only thing that makes sense. I will know in a couple of weeks.

[FAsmus]

Crackerjack;

Just a thought here about bullets and unknown factors about cast bullets on the way through the barrel ~

Since you live in Alberta you'll be able to do what I do here in Wyoming in the winter: When I want to check a bullet for conditions during firing I simply locate a deep enough snow drift and shoot into it a few times with the typical load I wish to test.

Then I either wait for spring to find the bullets laying there in the grass, or if I'm really interested in quicker solutions I keep looking until I find bullets were they came to rest in the snow.

The snow-stopper method will give you bullets to study that are virtually pristine perfect as they left the muzzle. ~ Who knows what you might find out?

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[TCLouis]

Like some other rifles, individual SKS accuracy is a **** shoot.

[crackerjack57]

Yes I know sks accuracy is poor but this has become the mountain that has to move but I am almost at the end of my rope. As for the snow pile test..... Not a bad idea!!

[3006guns]

I have a Yugo SKS that wouldn't shoot for sour apples from the day I got it. I examined the crown and discovered that it didn't have one! Instead, the muzzle was just slightly cone shaped, so I disassembled the gun and stuck it in my lathe. Five minutes later it had a small, clean counterbore and now shoots very well indeed.

[robertbank]

crackerjack57 you know sometimes you just get a lemon. For the price of a non issued Russian SKS I would dump the gun on gunnutz and start over with another SKS. I had a rather better than average Norc SKS and it shot really will considering my eyes and the open sights. I have seen others that wouldn't shoot minute of man at 59 yards. It seems to me you are well over $200 in aggravation.

Take Care

Bob

[crackerjack57]

Hey bob. No arguments with what your saying about the lemon. It is defiantly that. However to do some learning and experimenting on this rifle is probably the best way to learn afew things. There is no way that I would be taking things off of any of my other rifles that I have and possibly wreck something. If I wreck something on this sks not a big deal. I can just throw it away and no tears shed. If my Remington a different story. I have had a couple of other posts regarding this sks in the past and lots if great input was given to me that could be used by myself and others for almost any rifle and that's exactly what I am doing with this sks. However if this last thing of hand lapping the barrel does something huge for accuracy I would be ecstatic and others reading the thread would also possibly have ideas to help get the most out of their military or otherwise rifles.

As for the crown, when I got the rifle it had a good crown however it was re crowned before I tried any other accuracy tests.

[robertbank]

Well at best the SKS isn't much more than a younger AK47. They were never meant to be target guns. Cheap to make and indestructible. They are fun plinkers though and do as a truck/farm gun for sure. Buddy of mine has dispatched a number of Black Bears with his at close range around his Hen House. Not sure what fire lapping is going to do for you as I suspect, like most of the SKS's up here the rifling is pretty good. In any event good luck with the gun.

Take Care

Bob

[crackerjack57]

FINALLY!!! SKS SUCCESS!!

I want to thank you all for all of the input over the last year and the 3-4 different posts regarding this rifle. I finally figured out what the problem was with this rifle and fixed it!! The last thing that I did with this rifle was to hand lap the barrel and after lapping recrown the barrel. Well!! did hand lapping show me what the issues were. when the factory drilled the gas port, there was some metal that was forced into the barrel area and made for a impingement right at the gas port.

Im going to start a brand new thread called SKS Success and put all down there for all to see and possibly others might have the same issues. here is the link;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?230395-Sks-success!!!

[giericd]

I had a newer Chinese SKS with all matching serial numbers, I had high hopes since it was in great condition and was not a parts rifle. Irons, scope didn't matter I was luckey to hit a basket ball 1 time with an entire mag at 100. I got rid of that thing and I'm glad I did!