454424 and the new Vaquero

[jim 44-40]

I loaded 454424's in a New Ruger Vaquero and the picture shows they are seated just shy of cylinder face. I use 5.5grs TrailBoss and a BHN of 10. So far a good crimp job has kept any from binding up cylinder. OAL is 1.665'' shot 50 rds so far and they are hitting POA92989

[44MAG#1]

Mine does the same thing. I don't worry about it. I shoot a lot hotter load than yours. Don't worry about it.

[Char-Gar]

"Just shy" is plenty good.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

In my Colt's the Lyman Keith 454424 hits a couple inches low on the target at 25 yards, this is a real problem since my Colt SAA's sights are zeroed with a file to hit point of aim with 454190. The powder charge is 8.5 gr of Unique. Power Pistol fails to raise the point of impact to zero on point of aim. The boolit works fine in my Blackhawk .45 Colt, just a turn of the screw zeros to fixin's.

[DougGuy]

Silver Jack Hammer, if you back off the charge with that boolit, chances are it will raise the point of impact. Slowing it down increases dwell time in the barrel and gives recoil time to flip the muzzle up a bit more before the boolit leaves, = higher point of impact on the target.

[44MAG#1]

"In my Colt's the Lyman Keith 454424 hits a couple inches low on the target at 25 yards, this is a real problem since my Colt SAA's sights are zeroed with a file to hit point of aim with 454190. The powder charge is 8.5 gr of Unique. Power Pistol fails to raise the point of impact to zero on point of aim. The boolit works fine in my Blackhawk .45 Colt, just a turn of the screw zeros to fixin's".

If your load is shooting correct windage wise just hold a little higher. I don't consider 2 inches low at 25 yards a problem or even 4 or 5 inches low at 50.
That is why one gets out and will shoot their guns, especially a fixed sighted gun, to ascertain where they hit. That is one of the reasons to get out and shoot along with having fun.
Always if one feels that having a fixed sighted gun is going to cause them anguish if it hit off somewhat then get an adjustable sighted gun.
That will take away the fear of the problem of the fixed sighted gun.
My New Vaquero shoot low with one load I shoot but on windage. I just hold for it. The other load is low left at 100 yards but I hold high right and still hit the target. I consider that the "expense" of owning a gun like that.
Of course I could have a drift adjustable front sight installed, and may do that someday, but , mine isn't far enough off to cause a miss unless I am in La La Land while shooting.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

44MAG#1, You are quite right that 2 inches low at 25 yards is not a serious problem and a little Kentucky elevation fixes the problem. My problem is I have lots of fixed sighted guns all zeroed to their load and lack confidence in my ability to remember which gun /load combination to hold where if I deviate from their respective zeros anywhere but the target range. Keith says one gun, one load and beware of the man who only owns one gun, he probably knows how to use it. I remember talking to a gunshot victim in a house and he gave me the description of the guy that shot him out on the street. I was working as a peace officer and in uniform. My Dept. issued rifle had fixed sights and was a "pool" gun, checked out in the beginning of the shift and checked back at the end of the shift. I could score 100% with this rifle at the range because I knew how to hold off with Kentucky windage to hit the center of the target. But out there at night amongst heavy traffic, talking on the radio, driving, looking for the hostile I realized I could not be sure of which direction to hold off for zero. Such might be the case if I had to use this Keith 454424 out of my fixed sighted revolver if I needed to shoot a bear or a cougar or a bad guy that was moving. I would default to the sight picture I have used over years and years of shooting. Were this my only gun I would have a better change, but I own over a half dozen of these fixed sighted single action revolver models. So I've sighted them all in with the same load to the same point of impact.

Another example is last Wednesday I was out shooting one of my Colt Series 70's. I have several of these, but this was had been jamming so I took it to the gunsmith. I bought this gun used and it is not young. The gunsmith said he had to set it so that the trigger pull was heavier. This one hits high, a couple inches at 15 yards. I had a very difficult time with the different trigger pull and the different point of impact. The problem is I own three of these guns and I don't believe I can become proficient enough with this one to carry to defend the public because it is so different from the others in trigger pull and sights.

Yesterday I shot my Keith 454424 out of my Ruger Blackhawk and put 3 dead center at 25 yards with 2 hand hold off hand. A very nice, useful gun but my hand has been trained for the Colt action.

I know where my guns hit, I shoot them all the time. People who have used guns when they had to shoot to stop violence report that there is not time to think or calculate, they default to the way they have trained. So train for real.

Yesterday I was doing some bench rest testing for buddy. When I was younger I used to bench rest test without difficultly, yesterday my bifocals forced me to tilt my head back in an awkward painful manner and my shoulders were all tense. My best bench rest group was 5 shots 3 1/2" inches at 25 yards with a different fixed sighted single action revolver than the one commented on in my earlier post. My best group was shot off hand, 5 shots two hand hold, 2 1/4". Shooting the way I have shot for years.

So my difference of opinion comes from having over a half dozen fixed sighted single action revolvers in two different calibers, .45 Colt and .44 Special. I zero the .45 Colts to one load, 454190 over 8.5 gr of Unique and zero the .44 Specials to 240 gr 429667 to 5.2 gr of Bullseye. Even at that my 7 1/2" .44 Special put 5 shots in 5 inches at 100 yards with 11 gr of Blue Dot with a RCBS 44-250-K zeroed. I still have the target.

I'm still working as a peace officer and have two Colt Series 70's fixed sighted that are zeroed with our issued ammo.

For the .45 Colt I have a Blackhawk and have considered getting a New Frontier because I have different boolit moulds for the .45 I'd like to shoot but these new guns are so expensive. And really, when packing in the woods I carry my favorite .44 Special Colt SAA which I have complete confidence in my ability to hit it. One reason why I hit so well with this gun I believe is it's trigger is superior to the triggers of my other like model guns. They are all just a little bit different, I can just hit a little better with this gun than I can with the others, I know, I compete with it and keep detailed records from range practice.

[44MAG#1]

Silver Jack Hammer:

Well after having written all that I would have, out of the guns you have, only one I would carry for "serious work" and always remember where it shot.
If you have a couple that shot to the sights with your "serious load" they would be my "serious guns".
That way if the others shoot off a little they will be home and the gun that is regulated will be on your hip.
Still I see that as no problem. I carry an XDs but I also have another compact 45 Auto too. I know that with both guns, even though they don't shoot to the same POI/POA, they are very close at 25 yards. More than close enough to use for "serious business" should the need arise unless I am going to try to eyeball shoot the guy..
Now as to my New Vaquero, if I were going to hunt with it I would practice with it a lot, make sure I knew where it was shooting, record that in my mind, and have confidence that I could make a good hit within my ability to hold at that distance.
As I said in my earlier post,, if I were so concerned I would carry an adjustable sighted gun both hunting and for "business" or one of the maybe two you have that "shoot to the sights" and leave the others resting in their respective beds.
Then occasionally take out the other guns and shoot then to make them feel loved but I would have my "Known shooting gun" on my hip.
It is what it is, as I have been told many times.
Have a wonderful day.

Afterthought: You must remember I am simple minded and try to look at the simplest, easiest way to do things without a lot of fuss and muss.
So just take what I said as coming from a "simple Simon" nothing more, nothing less.

[DougGuy]

I kinda gotta hang with Silver Jack on not wanting to have to remember how to hold the sights.

I have the Vaquero in my avatar sighted in by developing loads that will "bring the boolit to the sights." So far I have 6 loads for this gun that all hit where the sights are pointed at 25 - 40yds or so, no remembering, no hold over or under, no sight picture compensation needed.

Took me a while but it turned out kinda fun to do. Once the gun is correct for windage and will shoot to center of target, the rest is trying a boolit and powder combination and adjusting the powder until it will let that boolit hit where the sights are pointed. If the boolit shoots low, slowing it down will generally raise the point of impact, reduce more, point of impact rises, etc..