Does anyone seat and crimp separately?

[C. Latch]

When I switched to PC I saw that I needed a firmer crimp on my .45 Colts. Now that I'm doing that, it seems as if there's a lot of resistance in my seat/crimp operation, as if the crimp is forming into the bullet before it's seated deeply enough for the crimp to 'roll in' to the groove.

I just loaded a few rounds with a different technique: Since I don't have separate seat/crimp dies, I backed out my die, tightened up on the seater plug, and seated several bullets to *almost* the perfect depth, with no crimp whatsoever.

After that, I then screwed the die body back into the press fully, so the die would crimp, but backed my seater plug out, and with a smidge of trial and error, set it back to where it just lightly kisses and barely moves the bullet as the crimp is forming, so I end up with a nice, tight crimp, right in the hard wall of the crimp groove, but with no excessive force needed and no bullet distortion, that I can tell.


Does anyone else do this, and is there any real need or benefit with heavy revolver loads?

[jmort]

"Does anyone seat and crimp separately?"

Yes. It makes sense to me

[wallenba]

I do that on all my loading. Just makes more sense to me. Sometimes it interferes with die stations on turret presses, but I like to prime and powder charge off press with the turret anyway. With decapper removed from FL sizer, it's not a problem.

With your technique, a 38 special/357 magnum die spacer would allow you to set the die depths permanently and lock in place with a Hornady or similar die lock ring. Then all you would have to do is unscrew the die, remove the spacer, and replace the die. Keep a dummy round to set the seater plug depth.

I use two seat/crimp dies, one with the seater stem removed.

[**oneshot**]

Always. Rifle loads or pistol loads. I've run into problems from bulging brass to shaving lead which led to accuracy/chambering problems doing both in one step, Never had a problem doing them seperate.
I shim my dies to not crimp and adjust the seater to seat using the shim. I use 2 nuts to lock the seater at that adjustment. After seating, remove the shim and loosen the seating stem from the die and then crimp.

[shooter2]

Always!

[HATCH]

I have found that seating and crimping needs to be in two different dies.
You can do it in one but its a pain in the butt for me.
The bullet is still in motion when you start applying the crimp.

[gray wolf]

Always!

[NSB]

Only when taper crimping. Never found it to help with a roll crimp.

[462]

Always, using one die to seat and another to apply the appropriate crimp.

[DougGuy]

Always seat and crimp in separate operations. Always prime separately then run primed brass into the press.

Now that I have a Load Master, I can use two separate dies for seating and crimping instead of having to re run all the loaded rounds just to crimp them.

[870TC]

Always. and it is the first thing to suggest if someone says they have trouble seating or crimping anything. Do one thing at a time and do it right, then move on.

[357Mag]

C. Latch -


Yepper !


With regards,
357Mag

[John Allen]

Yes, this is the way I always prefer to do it.

[prs]

Another "always", and seperate dies.

prs

[Fire_Medic]

I have never done it any other way, even from when I first learned.

[ffries61]

Always

[Char-Gar]

Whether or now seating and crimping requires different dies depends on the bullet's crimp groove. If the grove is long enough so the crimp can start turning into it before the bullet is fully seated, then there will be no lead shaving. On short crimp grooves, seating and crimping should be in different operations so as not to shave lead. You can use one die adjusted twice or two dies, it matters not.

Here is how you adjust your dies;

1. With a case in the shell holder and the ram at it highest point, screw the seating die down onto the case until it hits the crimp ring. You can feel it easy.

2. Now put a bullet in your case and adjust the seating stem down until the case mouth is just under the top of the crimp groove.

3. Back off the seating stem and screw the die body down a little at a time until you have the crimp you want and lock the ring.

4. Now run the stem back down until it contacts the top of the bullet and lock the ring. You are now good to go.

If the crimp groove in the bullet is too short to allow the above to happen without shaving lead, then;

1. Seat the bullets to the correct depth without crimping to all of your rounds. Then back the seating stem way off the top of the bullet.

2. Turn the die body down until you have the crimp you want.

3. Or use two dies, one to seat and one to crimp.

With a taper crimp, I always use two operations.

With rifle ammo, I also always use two operations.

Again, the object is not to shave lead as the crimp in turns in, while the bullet is still going down. Any way you can do that works just fine. It is never a bad idea to use two different dies, but often it is not necessary.

If the brass is bulging from crimping, the crimp is excessive. Use just enough crimp to turn the case mouth in so it won't catch you finger nail as you run it over the joint of the bullet and the case. Lots of folks over crimp their rounds.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I seat and crimp with the same die in the .44 Special but have to seat and crimp at two different stations with the .45 Colt. I'm using 429667 with the .44 Special and 454190 in the .45 Colt. If I try to crimp and seat at the same station with the .45 Colt I get lead shavings or even a ring.

[Doc_Stihl]

2 Seperate Operations Every Time.
There are situations that lend themselves to a 1 step operation. But I find it alot easier to skip the trial and error and go for what works everytime.

[opos]

Always.

[rintinglen]

One of the beauties of the multi station press is that it makes separate seating and crimping easy. I use two dies, side by side, and just rotate the head back and forth. It adds maybe 5 seconds a round, but it avoids shaving boolits and lead deposits in my die.

[kweidner]

always too. When running jwords way back when not so much. Cast it is the only way!

[johniv]

Always.

[waksupi]

Always. That is why it is handloading, as opposed to reloading.

[RED333]

As I reload 44 mag and 45 Colt on a single stage press, I use just one step.
Takes a bit of setup time, but I have gotten good at it
and can get it set in 2 or 3 rounds.

[grampa243]

always.. and i only tapper crimp.

[C. Latch]

Thanks, folks. It appears that I have re-invented the wheel. :-D

Before I switched to powder-coating my crimps were holding well enough and apparently weren't beginning to crimp until the bullet was seated enough to start the case mouth into the crimp groove, so that worked fine, but with the crimp tighter, I now understand why some mold makers give the option for a bigger crimp groove.

I like the 2-stroke method better. I'll stick to this from now on, at least with the .45 Colt. Thanks, everyone!

[rockshooter]

Lee makes a collet-type crimping die for .45 colt- it does a great job.
Loren

[smokeywolf]

On some roll crimps and all taper crimps.

smokeywolf

[MtGun44]

With taper crimp - ALWAYS. With roll crimp and boolits with a nice deep
crimp groove, not needed.

Bill

[wrench man]

Always with a taper crimp, and found it easier with roll crimps too.

[Bullwolf]

I always seat and crimp separately, and I generally use separate dies for it as well.




- Bullwolf

[btroj]

Always

[WallyM3]

Always, and all types of crimp.

[james6600]

It depends for me, on lead only 38/357 I could never get the die to crimp properly while seating using the one bullet I cast and shoot for this caliber. On 223 using j-bullets I make sure my brass is under max length and use a Lee crimp die, it's more accurate because brass length variance doesn't affect crimp or cause neck bulge or shoulder set back, I trim by hand and load thousands of 223 (not for bench rest) and avoid trimming when ever possible. Without going through a long list of calibers I'll just say lead causes me more problems than jacketed, and when I run into a problem I find It's actually faster, more accurate and cheaper to use a separate crimp operation then spend the time trying to adjust out the problem that never seems to completely go away. But some cartridges cause me no problems using a one step operation, even that thin necked obsession of mine the 25-20.

[doctorggg]

I have always done it using 2 different dies.

[gtgeorge]

I started doing them at the same time and soon after switched to always crimp in a separate step.

[ACrowe25]

Always!

[9.3X62AL]

With taper crimp - ALWAYS. With roll crimp and boolits with a nice deep
crimp groove, not needed.

Bill

This is my procedure, also.

[largom]

Always have, Always will.

[wvmanchu]

Started using two dies to try and cure a leading problem on my 1911 in 45 ACP. Now do it on all cast loads. Never on Jacketed.

[white eagle]

Most all revo loading is done this way

[imashooter2]

Everything that comes off a progressive and most that comes off a single stage.

[Garyshome]

Yes I do!

[DeadWoodDan]

Not being one who shoots thousands a year but trying to make better more consistent ammo even for plinking have begun to do it in two steps.

dwd

[sniper]

I started reloading with the one-step process, and wondered why I was getting a few bulged cases, which made chambering difficult. I switched to seat and crimp in two operations, and the problem disappeared. I have a seater die for .38 Special, and one for 357 Mag, then use a Dillon Pro-Crimp for taper crimping for plated boolits with no cannelure, so I don't cut the plating, and roll crimping for SWC and J-word...it'll do both.
Another step in the process, but with my single-stage press, I'm not going to set records, and I do make some good ammunition! :)

[freebullet]

With the pc it is an especially good idea to crimp separate. I've found it quite difficult to do it perfect in one shot with pc boolits.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You will note: that virtually everyone here does it always,,, but some only do it most of the time.

The reason is that it gives you precise control over both operations, which if done together result in a compromise that can work but many times creates other problems.

In short doing it in separate operations simply makes better ammunition.

Randy

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Never, until I had progressive presses that gave me the opportunity to do so (quickly). I made many, many rounds using one die to seat and crimp at the same time. Never had a problem with bulged cases and if I had shaved lead I had my crimp set wrong. A TAPER crimp should not dig into the bullet...it only removes the slight flare put on the case. Nothing more, nothing less. It adds NO extra case neck tension. This topic comes up from time to time. I always wondered how better, more consistent ammunition is made by breaking up the 2 steps.


Is it easier...yes.

Do you have to do it this way...no.

It does make changing boolit styles/weights much easier and faster, I will say that!

[Ben]

I use 2 separate steps and 2 separate dies , ( Seat the bullet 1st, and then finish with the roll or taper crimp in the last step ) , I wouldn't consider doing it any other way.

[km101]

Yes, with separate dies. In both revolver and auto cartridges.

[bgokk]

2 Seperate Operations Every Time.
There are situations that lend themselves to a 1 step operation. But I find it alot easier to skip the trial and error and go for what works everytime.

Me too!

[tg32-20]

I use 2 separate steps and 2 separate dies , ( Seat the bullet 1st, and then finish with the roll or taper crimp in the last step ) , I wouldn't consider doing it any other way.

I have been doing this for years and feel that it produces the best I can do.

Tom

[bedbugbilly]

I only load pistol but I do each operation separately on my Lee 4 hole classic turret. Doing it in the same operation (while I know many do) to me is akin to trying to sit down and pull-up your pants at the same time.

[btroj]

I use 2 separate steps and 2 separate dies , ( Seat the bullet 1st, and then finish with the roll or taper crimp in the last step ) , I wouldn't consider doing it any other way.

Is there any other way? I always use a separate crimp die. Even my 30-30 and 45-70 are crimped with a dedicated crimp die.

[Tn Jim]

Always have in every caliber that needs a crimp.

[Spawn-Inc]

i do for my 500mag, but for everything else (9mm, 45acp, 38spl, 357mag) i do it in one step with lee dies.

[jonp]

Yes. Since the good members on this board recommended that I try it to solve some problems I was having I use the RCBS Carbide to seat and a Lyman to crimp in 2 steps. All of my problems vanished.

[Worn_Holster]

I just got a Lee factory crimp die to use when I load .44 mag. It crimps and resizes as a last step in the process. You really want a roll crimp with your 44 mag. Light loads only need a light roll and heavy loads need a firmer roll crimp. The 3rd die in a normal set is the seating die. If you adjust it correctly, you can make it do anything from a light roll crimp to a heavy roll crimp, but it's kind of a tricky thing to seat and crimp in the same step. At least at first it's tricky until you get the hang of it. The Lee FCD makes doing the crimp even easier. Basically, you use the seater die just to seat the bullet to the right depth. Then you come in with the FCD and apply a perfect crimp just the way you want, and as a side bonus, it resizes the assembled cartridge.

[Fire_Medic]

I just got a Lee factory crimp die to use when I load .44 mag. It crimps and resizes as a last step in the process. You really want a roll crimp with your 44 mag. Light loads only need a light roll and heavy loads need a firmer roll crimp. The 3rd die in a normal set is the seating die. If you adjust it correctly, you can make it do anything from a light roll crimp to a heavy roll crimp, but it's kind of a tricky thing to seat and crimp in the same step. At least at first it's tricky until you get the hang of it. The Lee FCD makes doing the crimp even easier. Basically, you use the seater die just to seat the bullet to the right depth. Then you come in with the FCD and apply a perfect crimp just the way you want, and as a side bonus, it resizes the assembled cartridge.

If your sizing die in step one is setup correctly there's no need to resize again. Also the resizing of the FCD with cast boolits (at least for the pistol cartridges) can be and has known to be problematic.

[cbrick]

Always and without exception.

Rick

[glider]

+1, always

[casterofboolits]

Put me down as another "always"!

[Down South]

Always on every caliber of handgun.

[ddixie884]

Me too...................

[Airman Basic]

Have noticed that you can seat & crimp in one pass if your boolit has a substantial crimp groove like the Keith SWC. If you have one of the vestigial little lines around the boolit like the Lees, you need separate operations. I like the Lees for their price and function, but that's one small drawback.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I use a separate die for taper crimping but not for roll crimps.
If I could see an advantage to separate dies for roll crimping , I would do it there also. After some 100K revolver rounds reloaded, I have never seen a need to use a separate die for revolver loads.
My handloads are consistent, accurate and I have never had any issues with chambering roll crimped handloaded ammunition in any of my revolvers.

[C. Latch]

I ordered a Redding Profile Crimp die for my .45 Colt. I'm looking forward to using it now. If I get a chance this afternoon I'm going to do some .45 Colts and I'll tweak my existing die to seat, then reset the die and crimp later.

[Slinger]

Only when taper crimping. Never found it to help with a roll crimp.

Exactly, NSB. You have to seat & taper crimp in two steps. With Roll Crimp it's a matter of timing the die to seat the bullet to the crimp groove as it begins to apply the roll crimp. Nothing to it!