Pouring Core into Jacket

[Luigi Lavazza]

Is there a method of pouring cores directly into the jackets? I would think if possible you would first need to pre-heat the jacket to get a good fill (assuming it would be like a mould). This would be for 30cal jackets.

Thanks.

[reed1911]

To be honest, you will get better consistency using a drop of acid and then heating the seated core in the jacket to melting temp and then cool. That is how we do bonded cores here. I assume that is why you are asking. If you are simply trying to get rid of core squirting, well then, it really does not matter as the bullets will vary so much in weight that will be practically useless. Well, not useless, but good for plinking only and not worth the trouble of making them in the first place.

[DukeInFlorida]

I agree with reed1911. Everyone is always trying to find "shortcuts" when making swaged bullets. You are not the first one to think of just pouring lead into the formed jacket. If it were that simple, none of us would be doing the core making that we do.

Poured lead would be IMPOSSIBLE to control, and you'd have weights all over the place. And, you usually don't want to completely fill the cases anyways. There has to be some empty space for when the nose of the bullet gets swaged. The lead from the top edges gets pushed out into the nose.

If you are still in doubt, try some the way that you are thinking, and report back with the results. However, re-inventing the wheel is a waste of time. Many have gone before you. Making cores is the way to go.

[Nickle]

Oh, I found the shortcut, and it works really well.

It's called making the core, and swaging it. When making bullets for serious work (accuracy, match shooting), I cut the cores from lead wire, then swage to size and weight. Faster than anything else I've seen, that will even approach this accuracy.

That's the fast way. Everything else gives poor results, or takes more work or time.

[Reload3006]

Nickle is exactly right it is way faster to cut wire and swage a core. If I am shooting paper that is exactly what I do. If I am making a hunting bullet I will still swage my cores for uniformity then using some acid flux set each core in a jacket then heat with a torch allow to cool clean the flux off core seat point form. .... There really isnt any short cuts if you want good boolets. as has been said however if your just looking for something to chuck down range you can just pour it in and let it fly. If your load doesnt blow up in your face due to excessive weight variations you have something that will go bang. May or may not hit anything with it.

[Luigi Lavazza]

Thanks to all. Have not purchased a swaging die set yet. Just gathering a grocery list and looks like cannot cut the core mould.

[Lizard333]

About bonding the core, no acid eating metal necessary. Lead readily bonds to brass at normal annealing temps. Just trying to save another step.

[aaronraad]

Anyone tried using powdered/granulated lead for the core?

Just thinking of those automatic powder tricklers, with the digital scale build in (RCBS, Lyman etc) that are meant to good down to +/-0.1gr. Dose the powder into empty jackets (correctly sized for the next pointing step). Place them in an oven block (core bonding block?) and put them in the oven. Possibly even at annealing temperatures so you could melt the lead back to a solid and anneal the jacket at the same time.

Might have to tumble and clean after annealing and melting to look after your pointing die, but would also be useful to confirm loose cores. Maybe all the cores are loose as the lead cools and requires core seating?

Melting granulated lead would probably be safer and better quality than powdered lead?

Just shooting from the hip here.

[BT Sniper]

I have used powdered lead in a powder trickler. I had to use a threaded screw to get the lead to move but it did work very well.

I have attempted to poor lead into jackets too........was a challenge to say the least. Having all that hot molten lead was a bit dangerous and I tipped a few over.

BT

[Luigi Lavazza]

Granulated Lead? Would this be similar to chilled #9 or smaller shot?

[Reload3006]

no granulated lead is more like a powder. problem with shot for cores or granulated lead unless you melt the lead and bond it to your jackets your making frangible bullets. for some this is a desirable thing. for others it is not. small pest control punching holes in paper good medium to large game bad. it all depends on the uses intended for the boolit. The really nice thing is that this is just another great example of what we can make by rolling our own if you can think of it you can make it. half the fun of getting there.

[Sasquatch-1]

If you are going through the step of weighing every jacket and bullet then save the squirts from core forming. I use these and place them in the bottom of the jacket or trim the core as needed. When I get REALLY anal, I can get my bullets to an exact weight according to my scale. Even when not being anal most of my bullets are within .2 grn. of the target weight. I am swaging 44 using 40 S&W brass and the difference in the weight of brass (even with the same head stamp) can vary tremendously.


Anyone tried using powdered/granulated lead for the core?

Just thinking of those automatic powder tricklers, with the digital scale build in (RCBS, Lyman etc) that are meant to good down to +/-0.1gr. Dose the powder into empty jackets (correctly sized for the next pointing step). Place them in an oven block (core bonding block?) and put them in the oven. Possibly even at annealing temperatures so you could melt the lead back to a solid and anneal the jacket at the same time.

[fredj338]

Nickle is exactly right it is way faster to cut wire and swage a core. If I am shooting paper that is exactly what I do. .

Much more expensive than casting & swaging cores though. My cores are free but for my casting time. You still have to swage. With BT's mold, I can cast 1000 cores in less than 40min.

[Lizard333]

That is unless you swage your own wire.... Then it works great. It's great to know a guy the has a hydro press😎

[Sasquatch-1]

:hijack: You opened the door now I am Hijacking. Does anyone no if there is someone who makes an extruding die that would work with a shop press and make wire suitable for 44 and up cores using muffin ingots?


That is unless you swage your own wire.... Then it works great. It's great to know a guy the has a hydro press��

[Nickle]

There's fast, cheap and good. You can get 2 out of 3, but not all 3.

Make your choices.

If I want reasonably cheap, I am set up to cast cores. As Fred mentioned, the way to go is to swage them after. Then they are good, just not as fast.

[xman777]

:hijack: You opened the door now I am Hijacking. Does anyone no if there is someone who makes an extruding die that would work with a shop press and make wire suitable for 44 and up cores using muffin ingots?


+1 to this! Somebody chime in!

[reed1911]

What do you mean by shop press? Like a 2T jack ram type? In that case, yeah, I think you could. I think if you used some O1, cut it with a morse taper bit to fit your slugs and then drilled a hole the proper size for the wire you wanted, and hardened, I think it would work. Assuming you are using pure lead.

Someone with more experience on the amount of force needed to extrude wire needs to chime in here, but, I've done some serious work with a little 2T bottle.

[Lizard333]

I'm thinking it would take more than a 2T press. I remember watching a video a while back of a commercial lead wire feeder and the press was huge. Grant it, they were doing billets that were several hundred pounds, but you get the point.

My guess would be a 40+ ton press and some serious tooling to handle the pressure.

Good chance I might be wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not that far off....

[reed1911]

Sounds like a project to play with. I can say that a 10T will swage solid copper (not into wire, into bullets), hence I think a 2T would do pure lead. All that said, If I were planning on making 500 bullets, my time would be much better spent making a brass or iron form and just re-melt the muffins and pour it into a mould that would make long cores I could cut and swage. Heck, steel is pretty cheap, and you don't need to have a nice finish on them, you are going to squirt them anyway, so....

[Reload3006]

I use wire and cast cores too. By far the best cores come from wire. Air pockets however minute affect bullet accuracy. Not going to show up close up and is more than suitable for most apps but not all. Wire is the easiest to use. But way more expensive. Its a trade off. As I said I have core molds research the threads. and I use wire. Both are options as is using shot and powder to make frangible bullets.

[Sasquatch-1]

I use a 31 cal rifle bullet as a core mold right now. I think it drops around 180 grns. This allows me to easily swage 240 to 265 softpoints with about a 1/4" of lead showing. This is with trimming the 40 S&W brass. I was just wondering if there was an option for making wire. I had some wire I got from a friend that worked very well.

[Reload3006]

I use a 31 cal rifle bullet as a core mold right now. I think it drops around 180 grns. This allows me to easily swage 240 to 265 softpoints with about a 1/4" of lead showing. This is with trimming the 40 S&W brass. I was just wondering if there was an option for making wire. I had some wire I got from a friend that worked very well.
Yes there is Lafun makes wire dies. If you get a cylinder closed on one end with the appropriate sized hole in it a tightly fitting piston on the other end with enough pressure the lead will squirt out the hole. wall thicknesses and tapers make all this easier but that is the principle. A 20ton shop press will easily handle the pressure. Heat it and lube it up it takes less pressure.

[fredj338]

SInce you have to swage the wire to final weight, I don't really see the diff between a cast/swaged core & a cut wire/swaged core, other than cost. All my cores swage out +/- 1/10gr. I am new to swaging, maybe missing something, but seems the same to me??

[Nickle]

Fred, you're right. The major differences are cost and time. There's a few minor differences, but they are small, picky and not all that relevant usually.

[huntnman]

I have been making wire with an extrusion die from Lafaun, Alfloyd. Using a new style RCBS press, and 44 cal soft lead boolits. Requires technique, use only the cam over (max leverage) then advance die by turning die in one quarter to one half turn operate handle repeat. The resulting wire length depends on how much lead is in the donor boolit and finished wire diameter. Mine run a little over three inches in length.

[midnight]

I use only wire now since it is so much easier to use. Minor adjustments in weight in cut wire is fast and easy, I have an extrusion die from Chuckbuster which is similar to Lafaun's. It makes about a 5in section of 0.187 wire or about a 2 1/4 section of 0.250 wire. The way I really make wire is with RCE's HydraSwage. With his "H" type extrusion die I can make a 25 lb reel full of any diameter I want. The die comes with 5 die buttons from 0.187 to 0.400. I make my own buttons for any size I have a need for such as a smaller than standard wire for copper tubing jackets. It's expensive but I got a break. When Hoff auctioned A-Square's assets, I got the HydraSwage for $260 so now I extrude wire and make 50BMG jackets and bullets on it. The press new from Richard is close to $9000.

Bob

[mold maker]

I bought several cheap LEE 2 cav molds and drilled them to custom size and depth. For small dia slugs use the blank molds.
Drill them a tad undersized and polish to size for really easy casting.
So far I'm swaging 223, 30, 40, 41, 44, and 45, in any weight I want.

[MUSTANG]

:hijack: You opened the door now I am Hijacking. Does anyone no if there is someone who makes an extruding die that would work with a shop press and make wire suitable for 44 and up cores using muffin ingots?

Attached as pics below is an article that details how to build a Lead Wire Extrusion swager using a Hydraulic/Press.


93192

93193


Wanted to attach as a PDF for higher quality, but the attachment was disallowed because of file size, so these pics were placed at lower resolution.

[xman777]

If some moderator could help with the PDF version, I for one would love to download this to see about making it.

[Sasquatch-1]

Mustang, what magazine was this article from?

[Rumrunner64]

Mustang can you email it? stevestonfinishing@hotmail.com