battle damaged rifles

[jaystuw]

Battle damage is unique to military firearms . A rifle damaged by bullets or shrapnel would certainly suggest use in battle. And makes an otherwise non-descript gun into something of a novelity. In a hobby were condition is everything, battle damage does not generally carry the premium in value one might expect.

Over the years I have seen several battle damaged rifles, they are not common. The ones I see are overwhelmingly Japanese and date fom ww2. They seem to fit two sets of criteria. one, they are mostly in one piece. And two, they are still functional. Which makes sense. A G.I. is not going to go thru the trouble of bringing back a less than serviceable gun. From my experience,small shrapnel damaged rifles out number bullet hit ones, I guess the bullets beat the rifles up to much.

The best battle damaged rifle I have ever seen? a type 38 arisaka peppered with small shrapnal in the lower stock, and with what appeared to be, a brass fuse from a Japanese hand grenade jammed into the wrist.

Does my experience with battle damage match yours? Anyone else seen any guns with notable hits? Jay

[BruceB]

A VERY interesting subject. How many times have we seen owners express the wish that the firearms could talk?

At least with the battle-scarred items we KNOW that they had been out there in the smoke.

I once owned a Snider .577 breechloader. A good friend who happened to be the local identification tech for our Royal Canadian Mounted Police detachment asked to borrow if for a few days. When he brought it back, he said there was human blood caked all around the lockplate, and also under the buttplate.

Shortly after that, my dentist (it was a small town!) identified a pair of deep dents in the top of the buttstock as the marks of some poor soul's INCISOR TEETH! Can we say, "buttstroke"?

Clearly, that rifle had been involved in some desperate hand-to-hand fighting, either somewhere in the far reaches of the British Empire, or later on after the older rifles had been sold off.

I still wonder about it, even though the rifle has long-since gone to other owners.

[Artful]

And we know with some models by date identification that they must have seen battle even if not damaged -
Which also brings to mind restoration limits - how much do you restore/redo your war trophy?

[Muskyhunter1]

Interesting topic for sure. If somebody has some old warhorses out there with battle scars it would be really neat to see pics?

[43PU]

I have a Romanian M-44 that came off of "Hamburger Hill" that my uncle brought back from Vietnam that has about 12 or 13 M-16 perry marks and also grenade damage. I have a Jap rifle that has been broken in half then nailed back together with shrapnel still inbedded in the stock. I also have a mosin nagant that has blood pitting in the shape of a hand on the reicever. Ill try to get pictures of them all but I don't have the Internet just an I phone

[Larry Gibson]

Here's a MN bring back from Viet Nam. For those who remember the bayonet drill with the M1 & M14 the damage to this MN comes from the bayonet on an M14 during a "short thrust series"........

Rifle;

92822

Gouge left by "parry";

92823

Dent from "vertical butt stroke";

92824

Gouge from "slash";

92825

Larry Gibson

[square butte]

Although from an earlier time period - There are some great battle damaged pieces in the museum at the Gettysburg museum. It's been many years since I was there, so would not want to describe them - but they are worth seeing.

[nekshot]

i have a vz/24 stock here somewhere that has about 4 pcs of shrapnel on the one side of stock. This specific gun was really rough on the stock but the receiver was in good shape.I'll try find if I don't freeze first as I look!

[texassako]

My Italian Vetterli carbine has some shrapnel in it from over a century ago. I also have a French R35 carbine with shrapnel and a thumb mark worn half an inch in it from lots of use, but no pic. I always wonder where that one has been since the French did not really use them in WWII.

92829

[DeanWinchester]

While not a gun, a local WWII vet here has a sword he brought home. The Tsuba has a chunk took out of it and the scabbard is peppered with shot. I got to see it once and while not inclined to go into great detail about it, he DID tell me how it got in that condition. His issued Winchester M12.

[Whiterabbit]

I think about this every time I see a mosin nagant with a few notches carved into the stock.... [smilie=1:

[herbert buckland]

I have seen a few Jap bring back rifles that apear to have flame thrower burns on them

[Bob Busetti]

I got a 98 Mauser from sarco that was shooting about 12"-14" to the right. Took it back home, stripped it down & put a straight edge on the barrel. Barrel bent at the bayonet lug. Must have seen some hand to hand combat on the Russian front. changed out barrel with another 98 barrel. Shoots just fine now.
Bob

[Junior1942]

It's not battle scarred but my brother bought a Vietnam battlefield pickup 98 Mauser with the Nazi emblem. It was a WWII battlefield pickup given to Vietnam by the Russians. A GI brought it home legally from Vietnam. It came with all the papers the GI needed to bring it home. My brother paid the GI $800 for it a few years ago. No telling what it's worth now with the papers. It shoots great.

[nekshot]

I started looking for this shrappnel poked gun and then it hit me! I loaned that gun to a guy to hunt deer about 6 years ago and he vamoosed! I think I have been vamboozled!

[wallenba]

I've got a 1940 Remington 03 Springfield with a stain on the canvas sling that the seller insisted was blood from battle wounds. Can't really give to much credence to it, could be anything. It too has the usual dings and chips, no shrapnel though. Anybody else with blood stains?

[gew98]

Blood pitting..yeah right. Anyhow I have had several japanese rifles with bullet strikes to include a nice type99 with a 30 carbine slug captured by the cupped buttplate after it traveled a wee bit of the butt.
I knew an older retired fellow in nothern Ohio that had a collection of bonafide battle damaged peices...some unique and usually inoperable damaged items. Befriended a fellow in NJ when I lived there whom was a slick piolt. He had a 38cal mod 10 that was about bent in half from what he insisted was an RPG hit.
A collector friend of mine has a very nice 1916 Oberndorf gew98 that has the stock stitched with bullet holes he got direct form the veteran in the early 1970's. The veteran was in an MG section and after a day of butchery they were ordered to pull back.So the fellow crawled forward and got a souvenir rifle from the 'wire'. My buddy has another gew98 with a bullet strike to the receiver and it's still functional. I've seen more than a handfull of damaged bayonets and helmets as a collector. The one that took the cake wa sa fellow that bought a german para helmet while on vacation from a greek...it was partially bashed and still had the skull minus the jawbone in it. Yeah he did'nt show it to too many people and when he came home with it in the late 70's nobody was looking then. I've got a gorgeous 1913 spandau gew98 with a shrapnel hit to the rear band/stock and I have encountered a fair bit more with shrapnel dings. I had a type 38 jap that had grenade fragments embedded in the forestock against the barrel.

[Speedo66]

A friend had an M-1 with blood on it, unfortunately it was mine.

[DIRT Farmer]

Not a true battle damage but Dad told the story of a member of his unit, 56 Signal BTN who hated wearing his helmet. He didn't think it would do any good. To prove his point he set it out and shot it with his 30 carbine. Hole in the front out the back. The Lt was ordered to wear it for the rest of the war.

[L Ross]

I have a Sharps carbine in 50-70 with the original sling swivel and it has a groove worn into the butt stock a 1/4" deep from bouncing along on a cavalry trooper. These carbines had new wood put on them when they were converted to cartridge use after the Civil War. So I believe all that wear was done between the time they were issued in 1869 and when the Trapdoors were issued. Gosh I wish I knew the stories that carbine could tell.

Duke

[Powder Burn]

Here's a Russian capture 1945 K98 with a stock repair? Smooth, plastic like material filling on the stock. I just left it alone. Maybe I should have it x-rayed. 92885

[Ragnarok]

My No.5 MkI 'Jungle carbine' had what I figure was small bits of concrete/sand imbedded in the left side of the stock.

I really have no idea what happened to it...but it crossed my mind that the wood on that side may have been exposed to a artillery blast

[wallenba]

A friend had an M-1 with blood on it, unfortunately it was mine.

And how is your thumb doing today?:kidding:

[gnoahhh]

I had a 98K Mauser with the whole left side of the butt and wrist laced with many pieces grenade fragments. I figured the guy carrying it had a pretty bad day. I got it 30 years ago from the GI who sent it home from somewhere in Normandy (along with a Walther PP, which I also have).

The Mauser now lives in a custom sporter stock, and the Walther lives in my night stand.

[lrdg]

I inherited as CZ24 with bayonet and a family story. Grandfather stopped into a cafe back in the fifties. He got to talking guns with the owner. As he was leaving the owner's wife asked him if he wanted to buy a rifle. The story is that the owner brought it back from the war and every once in awhile he would get it out and stare at the pitting on the bayonet and mumble how the the kid was so young and good looking. Apparently he got into a hand to hand situation with a German and ended up killing the man with his own weapon. The bayonet has some very significant pitting that is not consistent with just being wet. The wife convinced grandfather it would be a favor if he would buy the rifle. I've wondered if the guy knew his wife had sold his trophy. At least she seems to have done it out of some concern for his health rather than some selfish reason of her own.

[Eddie2002]

I have an Arisaka 99 that has a lot of wear and dings all over the stock. The stock had a small crack at the wrist which ended up breaking and it looked like the majority of the crack was old. Always wondered if the crack was from being in hand to hand battle. The bore is chromed but has a lot of wear at the throat so I'm thinking that the rifle saw service at one time of it's life. I glued the stock back together but kept everything else as I got it. It's a good shooter as is so I'm keeping it for plinking.

[gnoahhh]

Remember a lot of those Arisakas saw service in horrible conditions, and usually ended up being dumped on big piles and moved with earth moving equipment. I wouldn't be too quick to assume that damage on an Arisaka came from combat.

[wmitty]

My uncle was a B-17 pilot and was hit with a shell splinter which struck the .45 in his shoulder holster. He said the impact pretty well folded the pistol up and prevented the splinter from penetrating his chest. He didn't get back with the damaged Colt, but I saw the shell fragment; which was roughly an inch long by 3/4" in cross section.

[3006guns]

As mentioned by another poster, I've seen at least one Japanese type 99 with the entire stock blackened by fire..........except for two areas, one on the forestock and one on the wrist. Spooky to hold something like that, knowing that the previous owner's last earthly sight was that of a G.I. with a flame thrower.

I have a type 99 barrelled action, completely rusted shut, that was given to me by an old friend who visited Iwo Jima many years ago. He said he literally tripped over it in the brush. No idea how he got it stateside, but his visit was back in the early 60's so it might have been easy then.

[waltham41]

I have a 1903 Turk 8mm mauser that has what appears to be a piece of shrapnel sticking out of the stock in the wrist area.. definitely not any sort of repair as there is no damage to the wood.... have always wondered if it was at Gallipoli during WWI and took some shrapnel from a artillery shell... if only these guns could talk.

[Wolfer]

I'm a little out of line here but when I was 10 yrs old my dad gave me a 336 in 30-30. Over the next few years we saw many miles together until there was very little bluing left on the bottom half of the receiver. One day after bringing in a deer I noticed a perfect thumbprint in blood on the left side of the receiver. I didn't get it cleaned off and it etched a perfect print in the metal. I thought it was pretty neat. I could always prove the gun was mine because it had my print on it.
That was a long time ago and I looked for the print the other day but couldn't see it anymore. I guess it wore off. Woody