BPCR Bullet Material

[SharpsShooter]

Greetings All,

I'm getting started in the bpcr silhouette game and have a question regarding casting metal mixtures. Some have said a 20:1 lead / tin mix is the only way to go and others indicate that they have good results with wheel weights. That said, what do you guys think?

[Buckshot]

............I am an admirer of those who ardently persue the sport, but don't partake myself :D The main reason being I work on the weekend and that's when the dern people seem to hold all the matches!

As in most competitive events, the thing for the new guy to do (if he can) is to mimic what the winners are doing. And I will bet most are shooting a pure lead-tin alloy. There is nothing in the mix to crystalize out early (like Antimony) and the 2 ingredients are easy to get and don't require any messing around to melt together (like Antimony).

Their results time after time are predictable and easy to produce. A harder alloy really isn't required and the lead-tin mix is mallable and has no added brittleness (like Antimony). At least, those are my thoughts.

.............Buckshot

[SharpsShooter]

Buckshot,
I know what you mean about workin the weekends. My schedule just recently opened up to allow me to think about getting back to competing. Copying what the veterans do is usually a good thing, I agree. The thing I run into is every one of these guys does it differently. Thats why I ended up here looking for a majority opinion to get me going.

Thanks

[4060MAY]

Sharpshooter
Any where near Mcdonald,PA
BPCR match this weekend, Sat
Practice, sign up 7-9, match starts at 9


directions, mcdonaldsportsmen.com

[SharpsShooter]

4060May,

No, I doubt I'd make that one. I have to get some homework done like sight settings for the different ranges, more ammo loaded...you get the idea.

Regards

[moodyholler]

Hard to get them sight settings without coming to the range!! I guess it's hard to find 400 meters of level space up there in the moutains!!!! Maybe you should just shoot from moutain to moutain? FWIW, moodyholler

[KCSO]

I will offer the same recomendation that Doc Carlson offer to me...

Get pure lead and mix your own alloy or buy premixed alloy. Wheel weights just won't be consistant enough for long range shooting. I favor 1-20 for hunting and long range work. I think wheel weights would work provided you started with a big batch and then used only that batch during your whole seasons shooting. Like any othe rshooting exercise it's all about consistancy.

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that if Ron Long or Steve Garbe leaked that they were mixing cow flop in their lead, by the next shoot the top ten would all swear by cow flop.

[SharpsShooter]

Yep it is hard to get sight settings without a trip to the range. Maybe the weather will allow this weekend

[SharpsShooter]

KCSO,

I'd agree that consistency is key to accuracy. WW just doesnt sound like the answer to me, but for some I guess it works.

[MOA Shooter]

Greetings All,

I'm getting started in the bpcr silhouette game and have a question regarding casting metal mixtures. Some have said a 20:1 lead / tin mix is the only way to go and others indicate that they have good results with wheel weights. That said, what do you guys think?


WW alloy will match any lead/tin alloy in the accuracy department. As is written here often, cast hot for uniformity. Then allow an overflow on the spue plate to prevent premature setting of the bullet for nice sharp, well filled bases. Then you have an option: allow the newly cast bullets to age up and get in the same aging cycle [many months.. longer is better]. OR: anneal the bullets dead soft which sets them in the same hardening cycle and the results will be uniform as to hardness and will shoot well right now. To anneal: one hour at 400 degrees and turn the oven OFF and allow the bullets to cool to room temp as the oven cools IN that oven.

Size uniformity. Completely filled out slugs are the goal, which mic the same on the bore ride and drivers [+-.0002 ideally]. If there's variation push [Lee die] size after casting to a dia suitable for your barrel and then anneal. Consistent engraving resistance is more important than weighing out to the tenths of a grain.

Many cast a large lot hot and let them 'age up' for accuracy. Best accuracy is the anneal process well cast. Lots of excellent BPCR shooters employ WW alloy. Just argueing with the old school about WW alloy vs lead/tin alloys is a bore. Can't teach the old dogs new tricks as it were. Maybe tradition and all that rot too is a factor.

Lubes are the largest part of that game. And how their used.......

MOA.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Every BPCR is different and what works in one rifle will be absolutely rubbish in another.
Firstly slug you bore and then buy a custom mould to suit that bore. Generally BPCR bullets are not sized after casting and finish 1-2 thou over bore. I use 1:30 premium alloy for all guns and have found this perfect. If too hard the boolit will be difficult to set into the leade which means you have to seat deeper in the case.
Make a compression plug (from industrial nylon)to compress your powder charge so when you seat the bullet, there is no force to distort the nose. CH can supply custom neck expanders that open up the case mouth to just hold a projectile, again a necessity to obtain premium accuracy.

what is premium? this group from a 45/70 Sharps at 100yds bench rested with a 500gn bullet and 62gn black powder
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/erics_rifle_target_1.jpg

Some of my cast boolits and the rifles I shoot
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/BPCartridges.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Compare.jpg

650gn custom bullet (reject) compared to a 22 WMR

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/BPCRTribe.jpg

Top to bottom; 50/90, 50/70, 45/70, 40/65, Rolling blocks both 45/70

[MOA Shooter]

Wallace freshly annealled ww alloy slugs might go 8-9 bhn whereas 1/30's are around 6-7. Not enough difference to note seating into the leade.

Not all guns respond well to the bullet hard or fully into the leade. Just "in" works for some.

Slug diameter variation means target runout. Push sizing with a Lee die doesn't affect a slug's quality. It would be interesting to try some 1/30's sized for uniformity.

MOA.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

"Every BPCR is different and what works in one rifle will be absolutely rubbish in another".
Don't have an arguement with your comments; in fact they support my own. The custom lathe bored moulds require no sizing to be perfectly uniform. The five sample cast sent from PJ with my mold weighed 652.2, 652.2, 652.3, 652.2 & 652.7gn and are concentric at .5125". I have since found that once casting good bullets with this mold that the rejection rate is very, very low.

These tapered Lyman boolits work brilliantly in different rifles that I've tried but MUST be made soft 1:40 to work. Most of the boolit is set into the rifling at loading and need to upset into the rifling to be accurate. 1:20 and WW alloys WILL NOT work with this style.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/My_cast_45.jpg

[44man]

I agree with ******. I tried WW in my Browning BPCR and although fairly accurate, they leaded my bore a LOT more then 1 to 20. Accuracy fell off fast. Since I just contact the rifling I could load them OK. The Browning has a camming action when the block is raised. The Sharps and other guns do not have this and a hard boolit would have to be thumb pushed into the rifling or a seater used.
I use the WW for my other guns.

[SharpsShooter]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the input. It gives me a good place to start from.

MOA,

What sort of container do you use for the annealing process? Cookie sheet? Also, do you stand the boolits on their base just lay em in there?

Regards

[Wayne Smith]

Couple of other thoughts, with the caveat that I don't shoot BCPR competition.

Sharps original formula was a 1-16 tin/lead mix. Anything from that to 1-30 seems to work depending on the rifle. Many use wheelweights and are competitive.

I found the best accuracy in an original Trapdoor to be with a fired, unsized case, 500 gr. bullet thumb seated and just enough crimp to hold the bullet in. I could spin the bullet in the case, but it wouldn't come out. I found no difference between poly wads and veggie fiber wads @ 100yds. Your rifle is likely to be different.

Discussions centered around bullets, lubes, compression of powder, different powders, and various card wad options on the old Shooters.com BCPR site. All of these are options to vary and research in your rifle.

[MOA Shooter]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the input. It gives me a good place to start from.

MOA,

What sort of container do you use for the annealing process? Cookie sheet? Also, do you stand the boolits on their base just lay em in there?

Regards

I use wire containers and just lay them down. I see no reason why a pan won't work.

Wayne is starting this thread towards loading techniques-- which can be major variables. So much depends on the lot # of powder. Then the lube. Then using a blow tube. The list can get long. But the finding is the enjoyable part.

MOA.