Strongest .357 Mag Revolver

[jrayborn]

I just picked up a 5" GP100 in .357 Magnum to go along with my Service Six(4") Police Six (4") Speed Six and my 3" GP100 W/C.

I am sure I have forgot a couple others, but as you can see I really like Rugers. One reason is the value and another is their strength and longevity. Thats not to say I dislike other brands because I do not. I love Smiths too.

So I was wondering what the strongest .357 Mag in production now might be? Someday I hope to come across a .357 Redhawk which I think may be well overbuilt, but they are not easy to come by. So next I figure it is likely the Blackhawk in .357, but I'd like to know what other people may think.

Just curious, I don't load hot ammo, I'm just wondering about it is all. I was actually thinking about a Blackhawk as my next handgun. It would be my first single action.

[btroj]

The FA in 357 probably takes the cake for sheer strength.

A Blackhawk in 357 is plenty strong for what it is designed to be. Don't overload it and it will last a few lifetimes.

[jrayborn]

Ya actually I know the F/A's are stout, unfortunately just out of my (financial) league. Maybe someday!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

When you mention strength, I assume you mean the ability of the gun to withstand high pressure loads -correct? There could be a separate discussion as to which action is the strongest as to the most reliable lock work. So I am going to venture to suggest that an N frame Smith would be the strongest. The first thing I would do is to take a caliper into a gunshop and measure the outside diameter of the cylinders and use that as the basis to assume which is the most capable of withstanding the highest pressure. However I understand that the N frame Smith has a cylinder shorter than the Ruger's so the Ruger would be the most usable strong revolver for handloading various long boolits. I am speaking as one who only owns Ruger 3 screw Blackhawks currently but I have owned N frame Smith's, a Security Six at a Colt SAA in .357. Which brings up my preference for a single action for the strength with large, solid base pin over the spring loaded base pin of a DA. I do agree with you that a Redhawk in .357 would be the strongest, over the Smith N frame. Years ago I had to buy another gun to replace my worn out Security Six and assumed the N frame Smith was the ticket, the GP100 was new and I picked up one to compare to the Cadillac N frame Smith. Surprisingly I favored the GP100 in my hand over the N frame Smith. I foolishly bought a bottom feeder to replace my Security Six. And my Security Six was worn out because I was the second owner the first owner had a gunsmith take the lockwork down too far is search of superior action, Ruger is not to blame to the condition of my Security Six but after market tinkering.

[jrayborn]

I am not as familiar with the Smiths, does Smith make an N frame in .357 Mag? And I'm not sure that cylinder strength is is the weak link in a revolver. It very well may be, I'm just not sure. Difference in materials and frame size plays a big role as well I'm sure. Mic'ing up the side wall of a cylinder does not tell the tale completely.

I'm really not into running hot loads, its not what I enjoy. I like 160-170 grain SWC boolits over 10-12 grains of 2400. Not even close to hot and really barely magnum to some. I am interested in longevity and overall best value. And of course it's just interesting to me to discuss. I value peoples opinions that have more experience than I do too.

[Mr Peabody]

My Cimmaron P model has very thick cylinder walls. I shot American Eagle 158gr JSP's in it the other day with no problem for the pistol. I had to put on padded glove to deal with the recoil. I usually shoot 180gr WFN's at 850fps which is very comfortable. It's light and fairly inexpensive too.

[btroj]

Fit and feel in your hand matter more than brute strength. A Blackhawk and GP100 are both built like a tank but feel different in the hand. I have, and like, both but the GP gets more range time.

[rbertalotto]

Freedom Arms by a long shot....Followed by Korth and then Ruger Blackhawk...........

(Or an old Unflutted cylinder S&W Model 27 if you can find one....)

[freebullet]

If it needs to be heftier then a gp100 ya better go fer a rifle or shotgun.

[osteodoc08]

Redhawk, blackhawk, FA, etc are all plenty strong. I've got a redhawk and it's so darn heavy, it's like shooting a 22.

[bhn22]

I am not as familiar with the Smiths, does Smith make an N frame in .357 Mag?

The 627 would what you're looking for. Unfortunately S&W persists in hamstringing the N frame 357s with short cylinders. The two real winners for .357 mag are the GP100, and the S&W 686. Both can handle pretty much anything you can throw at them. I have both, and feel the GP has the edge for long-term reliability. The only Ruger I've ever had to do a refit on was a Security Six that I had to fit a hand and cylinder lock to. My 686 is about ready for the same treatment. My GP keeps asking "is it time to out and play again?" Both the GP & 686 have longer cylinders that the 27/627 S&W, allowing use of heavier bullets at higher velocities.

[dubber123]

It used to be reported that the F/A .357's couldn't be blown up. I saw printed loads that required new brass, and told you to discard them after firing, due to the small primer pockets being enlarged to the point that large primers would nearly fit. I picked up one of the Silhouette model 353's last year for $750. I doubt I will ever load it that hot. I have loaded an N-frame S&W to the point I used small rifle primers, and still had easy, 1 finger extraction. Be aware not all cases produce the same results. I found that out via pierced primers when I swapping brands without checking the internal volume.

[Love Life]

Didn't Ruger make the Redhawk in 357?

[osteodoc08]

Didn't Ruger make the Redhawk in 357?

Yes and it is stout. Same frame and cylinder as it's big brethren with smaller holes for the 357. It's quite hefty.

[dubber123]

Yes and it is stout. Same frame and cylinder as it's big brethren with smaller holes for the 357. It's quite hefty.


Same idea with the F/A's. Same frame and cylinder size as their .475's and 500's but with little tiny .357 holes in it. 5 shot cylinder adds strength too.

[osteodoc08]

Same idea with the F/A's. Same frame and cylinder size as their .475's and 500's but with little tiny .357 holes in it. 5 shot cylinder adds strength too.

I wonder where the point of diminishing returns is.

For overall size, I like the GP100/586/686 size.

[seaboltm]

Didn't Ruger make the Redhawk in 357?



Yes, I other than custom shop pieces I would guess it is by far the strongest 357 revolver ever made. Barring the semi-custom stuff like freedom arms, of course.

[bhn22]

Chamber dimensions are an important part of the equation too. FA holds their chambers to minimum dimensions, whereas the more mainstream manufacturers get a bit sloppy at times. I do wish the FA would make DA revolvers, nobody has made a SA revolver that fits my hand.

[Petrol & Powder]

I wonder where the point of diminishing returns is.

For overall size, I like the GP100/586/686 size.

I would venture a guess that the GP100/586/686 IS the threshold of diminishing returns. They are strong enough by a huge margin. IMHO :o

[dubber123]

I wonder where the point of diminishing returns is.

For overall size, I like the GP100/586/686 size.

The F/A is too big for a .357 mag. Great for a target gun, of little use for a field piece. The L-frame S&W's are about perfect to me. I don't even like them in 6" preferring 4". If I am going to carry a revolver the size and weight of a .475 in the field, I'll make it a .475.

[Outpost75]

When I attended the Ruger armorer's school in New Hampshire in 1986, Ed Harris let us observe a test in which they attempted to blow up a Redhawk. They fitted a .44 Magnum cylinder onto a .41 Magnum Redhawk, then put it in the proof box and fired six .44 Magnum proof loads down the .41 magnum barrel with no glitches. The gunner only remarked that the lanyard yanking the trigger pulled, "a bit hard..."

Then they took a .357 Redhawk, fitted a .44 Magnum cylinder to it and fired six .44 Magnum proof loads through it. Here the cylinder gap was jammed with jacket frags, so they had to open the gun after each shot with a lead hammer, rotate the cylinder to the next chamber, load, close the action and blast shield on the proof box, and they repeated this through firing six rounds.

Finally they took a random, finished .44 Redhawk out of shipping, unscrewed the barrel, then replaced the barrel with a breech faced and threaded barrel forging with NO BORE in it, took it to the range, put a .44 Magnum proof load in it and attempted to blow the cylinder. The bullet extruded out the cylinder gap, making a 6" diameter lead and copper "flower", welding the gun shut, but the cylinder held, and passed magnetic particle inspection using the "wet" method with continuous circular magnetization after the test.

[jrayborn]

I knew I loved Rugers, but OMG WOW! :holysheep

[crawfobj]

Holy sheep is right!

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Way to go Ruger on their Redhawk! I had a Super Redhawk, I knew it was a strong revolver but oh, my.

[357Mag]

JRay -

Howdy !

IMHO -
IF a DA revolver works for you, and your hand size can accommodate it.... I highly recommend the S & W "N"-frame .357

While I must confess to not owning or having yet shot one of the new-wave 627s, I can attest to the strength, ruggedness; and utility of the classic
"N"-frame M-27s & M-28s. I have grown quite used to their large frame, " pinned " barrels; and cylinders w/ rim recesses.
I prefer the square-butt models myself, and carry a custom 4" heavy-barreled M-520 ( fixed sights ).

The same frame that works just fine for .44Mag, is quite robust for use in .357Mag.... not to mention the latters thicker cylinder walls.

My point:
If they fit your hand/body et al, you might want to give a " pre-owned " .357Mag "N"-frame a look.


With regards,
357Mag

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I would suspect being able to hit a target accuratly lets say at 200 meters would also be a consideration.
Dan Wesson ! Model 15-2. I agree the Freedom arms is as accurate and maybe a bit stronger.. But I can buy 3 DW's with 8 inch barrels for the price of the one FA and still shoot down 50 pound rams and hit chicken size steel targets at 200 meters just as well as that very expensive FA can.
Rugers are stout but will not shoot as accurate as a DW. S&W's are prettier but will not hold up nor compete at 200 meters. If they could they would be winning the steel target competition. Dan Wesson is still the revolver that wins. Caliber 357 is viewed as minimal but a DW model 15-2 caliber 357 mag is still a viable choice.
The DW model 15-2 is strong. The DW model 15-2 is extremely accurate out to 200 meters. The DW model 15-2 is very affordable and available.
Now here is the frosting. The DW model 15-2 is the only caliber 357 revolver with the quick change barrel system. In two minutes my DW can go from a heavy 8 inch barrel to a light 2.5 inch barrel for CC. No other revolver I know of will do that. DW revolvers are just that unique.
So there is my reason I still own my first DW bought in 1978 and have numerous others to keep it company. I have numerous other labeled caliber 357's.. but none of them can do or accomplish what that lowly DW has done for 35 years.
Mike in Peru

[jrayborn]

That just goes to show you what I know. I totally forgot about Dan Wesson's. I got to shoot a 44Mag model this summer that my boss let me try out for a weekend. Very nice!

Now about shooting rams at 200 meters, I may have to work up to that... So far 50 yards is about my max and I am not that good even there yet. Some of you guys truly amaze me. Missionary, is that with open sights? I don't think I could ever do that. I have shot 500 yards with the M16 (expert 8 times in a row) but am just not that good with a revolver. Maybe with an optic someday...

[rintinglen]

I vote for the Ruger New Model Blackhawks. The N-frame Smiths position the bolt cut over the thinnest part of the chamber. The Blackhawk's have the bolt cut off set. That said, either is more than strong enough to handle the nerfed version of the .357 that reigns as standard today. Both are 44 frames with 38 cylinders.

[missionary5155]

Howdy jrayborn
Yep with factory iron sights. And lots of practice.
It was very common for me to fire 300 plus rounds for practice the week before a match I could attend. My practice was to head shoot the standard targets at the standard range . I did fudge a bit on the turkeys aiming for the lower neck and upper shoulder. Also we would set the standard chicken targets at all ranges. If you can hit a chicken at 200 meters then you can win your class.
Many people have never held a DW, let alone shoot one. They are still right up there as the best double action revolver ever made.
Mike in Peru

[OBXPilgrim]

Finally they took a random, finished .44 Redhawk out of shipping, unscrewed the barrel, then replaced the barrel with a breech faced and threaded barrel forging with NO BORE in it, took it to the range, put a .44 Magnum proof load in it and attempted to blow the cylinder. The bullet extruded out the cylinder gap, making a 6" diameter lead and copper "flower", welding the gun shut, but the cylinder held, and passed magnetic particle inspection using the "wet" method with continuous circular magnetization after the test.

The most amazing irony of that is concerning the redhawks they assembled barrels wrong (maybe a dozen or 2 years ago). I saw a youtube vid on one of them after a friend at work told me about his that did the same. One day he was shooting a cylinder full and the barrel went flying out the end of the frame like a cheap dart gun. Someone wrote they traced it to a 3rd shifter (no flames needed here, I did 10yrs on 3rd), was laying the lube to the threads of the barrel when they didn't clock up far enough when they made torque or something like that - I'm sure someone will correct me. Instead of setting the barrel shoulder back he just laid the lube to them. Of course, I'm not disputing the strength of the design - as long as it was made right.
In case you've never heard of it (before you flame me):
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=106500

I read this whole thread tonight and wondered if anyone was going to even mention Dan Wesson. I knew the 44's were popular for the silhouette game, but wasn't sure about the 357.

[Outpost75]

I am very familiar with the Ruger barrel problem on early Redhawks. Initially the barrel thread was a class UNF-3A which was a slight interference fit. A fellow on night shift was overtorquing the barrels using a "cheater bar" extension on the frame wrench handle, instead of backing out tight barrels ando putting those frames aside for another pass on the surface grinder to take a wee bit off the front of the frame.

At the same time he was using an unauthorized lubricant which was not suitable for use on stainless steels. The combination of forced- fit threads, high torque, high stress at the root of the barrel thread, and the use of a high sulphur, chlorinated paraffin lubricant, was a perfect textbook set-up to cause stress corrosion cracking. This type of thing is well known in the aerospace industry and nuclear power groups. Ruger's chief metalurgist was a former Navy nuclear power systems guy.

The cause was quickly identified, the thread spec changed, and a thread sealant used to prevent penetration of chlorinated solvents into the barrel threads. Very few of those guns got out. All that failed were fixed for free and there were no injuries caused by any of the failures.

This incident helped strengthen the case to implement computerized inventory controls on work-in-process parts, S well as on-line statistical process controls in accordance with Mil-Q-9858A standards.

The link posted above has more info, but I am relating the story as told to me by Ed Harris, who was QA manager at the New Hampshire plant when this occurred.

[dtknowles]

I vote for the Dan Wesson SuperMag. The .357 Max. might be as strong as the FA and the Redhawk

Tim

[Tim357]

I vote for the Ruger New Model Blackhawks. The N-frame Smiths position the bolt cut over the thinnest part of the chamber. The Blackhawk's have the bolt cut off set. That said, either is more than strong enough to handle the nerfed version of the .357 that reigns as standard today. Both are 44 frames with 38 cylinders.
+1 on the Ruger Blackhawk. Also, note that the single-action cylinder has an axle that is anchored at both ends vs a DA cylinder that uses a detent and ball on one end, and a smallish pin on the other end. Way more strength to my way o thinking.

[Outpost75]

+1 on the Ruger Blackhawk. Also, note that the single-action cylinder has an axle that is anchored at both ends vs a DA cylinder that uses a detent and ball on one end, and a smallish pin on the other end. Way more strength to my way o thinking.

+1 on this. Of the readily available and affordable production revolvers, the New Model Blackhawk on the .44 Magnum sized frame, chambered in .357 is probably the strongest one out there. The NM Blackhawk is the only .357 handgun I own or need. It digests the same loads as my Marlin rifle and my BSA Martini.

I also agree that the Dan Wesson ranks up there, but I don't know if their metallurgy and internal process controls are equal to Ruger's.

S&W has improved from what it was, but the inherent limitations of the S&W design remain even though some of the traditional stress risers have been mitigated somewhat.

[Who's this Guy ?]

I have no personal experience with these 2 but I have read the stratospheric priced Korth is a strong action and that the French Manhurin M73 are pretty indestructable. Myself if I was looking for a strong .357 I would want either a Gp100 Ruger or a Smith Model 28.

[dubber123]

Another poster mentioned that having minimum spec chambers helps when shooting high pressure ammo. None of the mentioned revolvers are likely to be as tightly chambered as the F/A. This was origionally posted about "strongest .357". I can drag mine out to measure, but I bet it has at least .250" thick walls in a 5 shot platform, which also makes it stronger between chambers. A DW model 15 might be strong, but not nearly in the same league strength wise, and this is before considering their QC issues. The last M15 I handled couldn't fire ANY .357 ammo, it looked like it was chambered with a dull cordless drill. The fellow who owned it was happy shooting .38's as he only paid $200 for it in mint condition.

[robertbank]

Seems to me strong is strong. I just had a range session with my GP 100. After 100 rounds of weak hand shooting with my stout 358477 loads I have a wrist that is more than a tad sore. The load I used is within those recommended in Lyman's Manual. I am not sure what benefit would arise for making the gun stronger other than to likely add weight.

Take Care

Bob

[paul h]

Hard to say what is the strongest 357 revolver, but as mentioned there are several that fall into the category of more than strong enough.

I've run 100's of very stout loads through my old model Blackhawk using 2400 and H-110, loads that are stout enough to loosen up the primer pockets. I can't detect any damage to the revolver, but I did fit a bushing to the cylinder to tighten up the end shake as it was sloppy from the factory (0.005") and the front face of the cylinder wasn't perpendicular so I cleaned that up as well.

I won't be so bold as to claim anyone makes a 357 that can't be blown up, as I'm sure there is some darn fool that could manage to stuff enough bullseye or red dot under a heavy bullet to put a revolver to an untimely end. But with heavy doses of slow powder, I'd venture to say there are revovlers out there that could digest thousands of them without hiccup and about the the only concern is the barrel forcing cone suffering from gas cutting.

[bob208]

I would say first a ruger redhawk. then a ruger new model Blackhawk because they are made on the large frame. then the gp100. with the security-six and old model blackhawks. the last two have been strong enough for me for over 35 years.

that said I have seen people that could break an anvil with really trying.

[bhn22]

Truthfully, my first magnum was a Ruger Security-Six. I learned reloading with that gun, and evolved into handloading too. Some of my evil experiments didn't work out the way I had intended, but that revolver took it all in stride, and never missed a day of work. I also learned how to fit a hand, and a locking bolt in that gun too. And or course, being a Ruger, I also learned how to find lost spring pins. I owe a lot to the old girl, but sold her many years ago, not realizing the debt she was owed. If I ever find her again, no price will be too high. If a revolver can survive my early days (I'm much better now), it has earned the title of the worlds toughest revolver.

[Who's this Guy ?]

Not a .357 but a gunshop I use to go to that's now closed use to have a .44 Blackhawk on display that had blown off the top of the frame and part of the cylinder that happend because of a bad reload. I remember the proprieter saying the guy was lucky he wasn't seriously hurt. Anything will break and can wear out and then theres the relm of stupidity.

[GP100man]

WELL ,when I was younger/dummer, ya know the rest, I ventured thru the door to the relm that ^^^
he speaks of , I streched primer pockets, stuck cases (but it`s funny I never remember having to beat cases out)but never had a hitch with a revolver, Thanks Ruger !!

Those revolvers have moved on , some close , some not so close , but the 1s I can keep a check on have never given their owners a lick of trouble.
My last Redhawk had "O" forcing cone choke & shot 2.80" groups at 100yds (scoped & benched of course) & after 5400 rounds (this Redhawk was never hot rodded) I was cleaning it (used to soak em in a bucket of diesel fuel)the barrel came loose.
It returned with the frame welded up & a .0005 cone choke & 1 of the best triggers & refinish jobs I`ve ever seen on a Redhawk! OH yeah , the loads that went into 2.80" ,same batch of loads now kinda cluster at 4.10". It`s gonna get fire lapped 1 day , if I get `roundtoit !

[MtGun44]

Got to be the .357 Redhawk.

Bill

[dubber123]

Got to be the .357 Redhawk.

Bill

I don't have a Ruger to measure, but the F/A has .1750" thick cylinder walls to the outside, .2240" between chambers, is a 5 shot with locking notches between chambers, has minimum spec chambers, and is on the much stronger single action platform, locked solid front and back. It still gets my vote. It's still pretty useless as much other than a target gun, but I still bet it's the strongest. I found some 60,000 psi+ loads listed for it tonight, and a side by side comparo with an 8" DW in the longer .357 Maximum. About a 200 fps. advantage to the F/A, smaller cartridge and all.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I really like my s&w model 28 highway patrolman (N-frame 357Mag), it seems quite strong. But, I'm not willing to hand it over to Mr. Owl to find out if it's the strongest 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CKHuYx51U

[dubber123]

I really like my s&w model 28 highway patrolman (N-frame 357Mag), it seems quite strong. But, I'm not willing to hand it over to Mr. Owl to find out if it's the strongest 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CKHuYx51U

I worked up some non-book loads for my 6" model 28 using a 180 gr. Remington jacketed bullet. Using 2400 for powder, I got near 1,500 fps. Extraction was still pinkie finger easy, and I could detect no issues with the firearm or brass. I may try again now that I have a 180 gr. mold with a short enough nose. I have no real need to shoot these much, I was primarily testing the strength of a N-frame S&W. They are pretty strong. :)

[Budda]

I had a Colt trooper MK III it was built like a tank. I also now have a Rossi Cyclops 8" slab sided and ported that LOVES hot loads!

Nothing wrong with the .357......