.41 swiss fire forming issue

[stephenj]

i am having an issue with my .41 swiss . to put it simply my cases are not blowing out to form to the chamber .
the last time i made cases for it i did not have this problem so some helpful advice is needed .

what i am using .... new privi 8mm label cases trimmed and sized in lee dies .
and an origonal style 330 grain heeled bullet from an old west bullet mold .

i pretty much did the same thing i did last time , i anealed the cases trimmed and run them threw the sizer die .
then loaded them up with 11 grains of 2400 and shot them .
out of 35 rounds fired only 4 cases blew out and formed the new shoulder properly .
none of the cases sealed properly all of them came out with some soot .
the chamber and all of the cases where clean dry and oil free .

my thinking is due to the mild powder charge and slip fit bullets there isnt enough pressure to blow out the cases .
so where to go ? aneal the cases again and use a faster powder such as unique ?

idea and suggestions are so very much welcome , not being able to crimp or seat out to the rifling kind of has me stumped on where to go .

idealy i'd love to just stuff the cases full of bp and blow them out but i have none eft and a new case of powder isnt in the budget for awhile

[Nobade]

I make mine by trimming those same Lebel cases to length, (1.6 inches in my case) loading them with fast shotgun powder, then filled with cream 'o' wheat. A little toilet paper on top to hold it together and fire it straight up. Keep adding powder until they form properly. No bullet, and no sizing die. They blow out perfectly once you use enough powder, I think it was about 12 grains but don't remember for sure.

-Nobade

[DrtRacr09]

I do almost the same as Nobade, 10grs Bullseye, TP wad, cornmeal, and a cap of lube from cleaning out sizers.

[stephenj]

thanks guy .
i just tried the cream o wheat , the fastest powder i have on hand is red dot so i used it .
first with 10 then 11 grains all the way up to 14 grains of red dot .

no love to be found .. i took a pic
case on the left is one of the 4 that blew out properly fired with a bullet .
center is one that started to form when fired with a bullet
right is one of the cream o wheat fired cases ... almost no movement of the brass , the mouth opened up .003 .

i am thinking that these cases are hard as nails and i just flat did not aneal them enough .... not sure what else to think

92708

[RedneckRob]

I use 12 grains of unique with tamped down grits then a wax seal, about 1/4" thick, to fire form mine.

[Nobade]

thanks guy .
i just tried the cream o wheat , the fastest powder i have on hand is red dot so i used it .
first with 10 then 11 grains all the way up to 14 grains of red dot .

no love to be found .. i took a pic
case on the left is one of the 4 that blew out properly fired with a bullet .
center is one that started to form when fired with a bullet
right is one of the cream o wheat fired cases ... almost no movement of the brass , the mouth opened up .003 .

i am thinking that these cases are hard as nails and i just flat did not aneal them enough .... not sure what else to think

Yeah, I would anneal more. I am surprised they didn't form. I never had one do that. Maybe more powder too, Red Dot should work fine.

-Nobade

[skeettx]

Sorry, the best way is a load of 2F or 3F black powder and a bullet.
Bullet seated to slightly compress the powder.
Will always blow out and then wash and clean the brass.
And clean the gun

SURLY you have a buddy that will trade you black for smokeless?????

Mike

[Nickle]

I recommend annealing after sizing and trimming .as well as before

[stephenj]

the first batch i did 4 or 5 years ago blew out no problems , but they was also .348 winchester .

i elected to use the 8mm label this time to avoid the work of turning down the cases to fit my tight chamber . and i have had very good luck with the privi brass in other calibers .
i do think i was a bit to conservative in my anealing .. i tend to do that with short cases .

i anealed them again ... if it gets above zero tomarow i may try again .

[jonk]

Stephen,

Where in Ohio are you located? If near to me I'd be happy to give you enough black powder to load up some.

[stephenj]

Why thank you jonk.
Unfortunatly i am about 50 miles south of youngstown .. maybe two and a half hours or so from you

I anealed my cases again and once it gets a bit warmer i will try again .
Minus 2 here and i just went 5 hours without electric ... kerosene heater just keeps the house at 45

[jonk]

No problem. Fun little round to shoot; once I got mine fireformed my go to load is usually a .430 200 gr bullet with 6 gr of Red Dot. Very mild. Or a 250 gr bullet with a case full of 2FG black powder.

One thing, they shoot very high. I built up my front sight with some heavy gauge wire and JB weld.

[stephenj]

My rifle shot about 15 inches high . I made a sight extension that fit on top of the origonal and soldered it on
I didnt have much luck with any regular bullets as my chamber is rather. Tigjt and it was either shoot a very undersize bullet or shorten my cases up almost all the way to the shoulder. So i went with an origonal style heeled bullet .
It is a very fun rifle to shoot ... it is one of my favorites

[Nobade]

I don't understand this shooting high stuff. Sure it hits high at 100 yds, since the sights are designed to zero at 200M on the lowest setting. But if you put a taller blade on it to zero it for 100 yds, then the sights don't work right for any other range. I love the fact that with my black powder loads I can just put the sight on the range I want to shoot and make hits all the way out to 800M, the furthest our range goes. It is quite amusing to be able to make first round hits on steel at the various distances we have available while the tactical guys are messing with their PDAs, cell phones, weather stations, laptops, etc trying to figure out where to set their scopes. This Vetterli and my '96 Swede make them look bad - just set the sight to the desired range and shoot. Misses are usually wind related, not elevation.

-Nobade

[stephenj]

Nobade
You are right .. the sigjts did work exactly as intended .
But most of my shooting is at 100 yards .. i have to leave home to shoot further so i adjusted them .
But i did file my front to the right hight to match back up to the scale ... you just have to subtract 100
Although i believe past about 500 it doesnt match up any longer

A local club has a service rifle shoot twice a month during the summer.
It is rather fun to show up with the old swiss when everyone else is using ar15's and garands. And still be competetive

[bkbville]

I did not anneal (simply forgot) last time using 8mm Lebel brass - I did rough trim to about 1.7" and sized in the Lee dies - I annealed after and did a final trim with the fit geometry. I did 25 with no splits or failures to blow-out.

I don't think the problem is annealing - I've found you have to pack the cream of wheat to get enough pressure for the next to expand out. I fill the charged cases with COW using a dipper, compress it with a dowel, and repeat, then plug the end with some wax.