Mini Red Dots

[crabo]

I have a number of Ultradot sights, but no minis. What are you guys using and liking?

[jmort]

Primary Arms for people like me if you are on a budget.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Micro-Dot-With-Fixed-Base-p/md-fbgii.htm

[NSB]

If you can afford an UltraDot you can afford the Burris FastFire3. It's the best I've seen in that price range and is head and shoulders above the short "tin can" sights such as the Bushnell TR 25, etc.

[imashooter2]

I just picked up a FastFire III. Haven't had a chance to use it, but do like the small size and light weight. They also call it tough enough to live on the slide of my Kimber. We shall see.

[jmort]

Sorry if you were looking at "Reflex" or "Open Style" or "Holographic" as I have never heard the term "Mini"
The Burris is no better than an Ultradot. Next logical step-up would be something like a Vortex and then up to EOTech.

[NSB]

Sorry if you were looking at "Reflex" or "Open Style" or "Holographic" as I have never heard the term "Mini"
The Burris is no better than an Ultradot. Next logical step-up would be something like a Vortex and then up to EOTech.
The Burris isn't better than an Ultradot. That's correct, they are both outstanding, good quality sights. Vortex is one degree under both. Nothing logical about it. EOTech is a good sight but a lot more money. I have a Burris FastFire 3 on a 44mag and a 45-70 and have had ZERO problems with them on either of those guns. They hold zero and never fail to work. I knew what the OP meant but didn't feel the need to snub him for not being exactly correct on his terminology.

[jmort]

"I knew what the OP meant..."

I did not, ergo my post/link of what you term the "tin can" from primary arms. Obviously, based on what I posted, no "snub" was intended. We will have to disagree on the Vortex. I would get a Fast Fire III for sure, even over the Ultradot. In fact that might be my next purchase.

[NSB]

The Vortex Razor is right up there with the FF3 in quality (due to warranty) but price brings it back down a notch in my opinion. Twice as much for basically the same sight.

[Larry Gibson]

I consider the Burris Fast fire as better than most other "mini" dot sights because the dot itself is smaller. That gives more precise aiming. Most dot sights have large dots for "fast shooting". I've been using a Burris Fast Fire II on my Ruger Bisley .41 Magnum for a few years now. I D&T'd the top strap for a thin flat bottomed Weaver base. That keeps the Fast Fire low mounted and if it or the batteries go Tango Uniform the Fast Fire is easily removed and the irons sights are still there, zeroed and ready for use. It has become my primary hunting revolver.

Larry Gibson

92703

[jmort]

That is a good looking and useful hunting rig. The 3 MOA is more precise but there is a trade-off in all of this as you noted.

[bobthenailer]

I currently have a orgional Tasco optima, 2-Trijijcons , 2- Pride Fowler SOS and a Burris FF-2 all work well . the current FF-3 would be a better choise than the 2 model , i also had a doctor sight, but was not happy with it and sold it .
Of the ones ive have the Pride Fowler is the best as dot intensity is somewhat manualy adjustiable by means of a 3 postion switch off/on / full power + the usual self adj system, also the battery can be changed without removing the sight through a trap door on the top of the sight like the new Burris FF-3.

If you are talking about the mini tube sights i currently have 2 Aimpoint Micros on 2 of my FA 454 casull revolvers for a few years now. and i just bought Bushnell TR-25 but havent mounted it yet, but it seems to be decent sight for the $ and should work well up to at least a 357 mags recoil !

[imashooter2]

Just an FYI, the FF-3 uses a CR1632 "coin" battery and changes without removing the sight.

[Mallard57]

I consider the Burris Fast fire as better than most other "mini" dot sights because the dot itself is smaller. That gives more precise aiming. Most dot sights have large dots for "fast shooting". I've been using a Burris Fast Fire II on my Ruger Bisley .41 Magnum for a few years now. I D&T'd the top strap for a thin flat bottomed Weaver base. That keeps the Fast Fire low mounted and if it or the batteries go Tango Uniform the Fast Fire is easily removed and the irons sights are still there, zeroed and ready for use. It has become my primary hunting revolver.

Larry Gibson

92703
Larry,
I've considered installing a FastFire lll on my Super Blackhawk for a hunting rig. What are you using for a holster for this particular setup?
Jeff

[Larry Gibson]

I use an Uncle Mike's #4 shoulder holster. I cut a slot out the top back for the sight and glued a thin piece of rubber mat over it. Works very well. Riding under the left arm it is out of the way of a pack if I wear one. It is also well protected and I can crawl if I have to and not damage the revolver or bump it. In cold weather I wear the rig over my warm shirts, sweaters, etc. but under the outer coat which protects it from the weather. As modified the holster still works with my 3 other single actions with standard sights.

Larry Gibson

92828

[Whiterabbit]

I have a TRS-25 on the BFR that is doing very very well for me. Already "almost" duplicating my best groups with it, and I'm not the best pistolero out there. And I can do it on command now! 4-5 inches at 100 yards, with a goal of 2 inches on a good day with the stars aligned. I cut the factory base so I could keep the factory irons without drilling and tapping the top plate of the revolver for a lower installation. In case I have to pop the sight off and move on.

Shoots very well, but I'm still trying to figure out how to pick up the dot fast. Had that same issue with my ultradot, so it must be the dope behind the scope....

Still dream to take a pig with it, but I have no idea how I am gonna carry it. the only holster that is long enough to hold it happens to be wide enough to be a pant leg. far too big (made for 14" contenders with riflescopes).

Wanted a "heads up" stype red dot, but the FFIII (which was the top runner) was twice the price of the TRS-25 or more. Couldn't justify that. The TRS-25 is darn small anyways.

I should take a pic with the dot mounted. Here's the base cut, the week before the red dot arrived. I think I installed it the otherway so the cross-groove was closer to the rear screw. Of course the crossbolt is located between the mounting screws.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89858&d=1386464814

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have five of the Bushnell TRS 25's and they all have preformed flawlessly. All are mounted on Rifles but at 3.2 oz. I don't see why they wouldn't work well on a revolver.

pretty good bang for the buck.

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

camerland has vortex sparc for a 170 bucks. Hard to beat at that price level.

[NSB]

I had two of the Bushnell TRS 25s and they both went back for extreme parallax. They weren't even usable. I ended up replacing them with Burris FF3s. I've been shooting competition for over thirty years and I've owned about every brand on the market. I own a couple of Bushnells that aren't too bad but they aren't the TRS 25s. Easy enough to check. Sit them on a surface and look through them at a spot about twenty-five yards away and move your head around. The dot shouldn't move off the "target".

[Whiterabbit]

in my experience, when the target gets close, the dot moves. A lot. Maybe since these things are advertised as having infinite parallax, it would be better to pick a target much farther away than 25 yards?

[NSB]

in my experience, when the target gets close, the dot moves. A lot. Maybe since these things are advertised as having infinite parallax, it would be better to pick a target much farther away than 25 yards?
Just buy a good sight instead. I don't have any problems with the FastFires or Leupolds. Most of the early Tasco's I had didn't have the problem either. You can buy a good red dot without parallax but you're not going to get it for a bargain basement price. You kind of get what you pay for. It also helps to check them out before you bring it home.

[Whiterabbit]

I don't understand. ALL red dots unless they use lenses (leupold prismatic and other true 1x scopes that use a dot instead of crosshairs) should have basically no parallax, or parallax set to infinity. That means that at 10 feet across the room, the observed parallax should be enormous. It's a dot reflected off glass.

[fecmech]

I don't understand.
I don't either but it is easy enough to check for as NSB said. I have a $30. Tasco ,a PDP3 Tasco($90.)a Millett and an Ultradot and none of them have any parallax at any handgun distance 50' to 100 yds. I have a Tasco Optima and a JPoint reflex that have a tiny bit of lateral parallax but not much. My experience with TRS 25's mirrors NSB's. I sent one back and later checked two more in LGS and all had more parallax than I wanted in a dot. The one I sent back I could move the dot 2"@50 yds by moving my head around with the sight on my bench.

[W.R.Buchanan]

When shooting isn't your head in the same place everytime? Like on a rifle your cheek weld kind of locates your head with relation to the sight. Less so with a pistol but still if you are shooting well then your head position relative to the sights is pretty close to the same place on each shot.

The point about being able to move the dot around at close range is true,,,, But you have to move your head into a position that would never occur when shooting in order to do it.. I've been playing with one of mine on my desk for the last ten minutes and all I can see is gross misalignment of the eye with the optic being responsible for this Parallax error. Even so this only occurs when the sight is closer to your eye than would be the case with either a rifle or pistol.

With my eye at arms length away from the optic. I can move the dot to the margin of the lens in all four directions and the dot doesn't move in the slightest off the target, however if you bring it closer to like 9-12" away it does move a little.

I have heard this same point made in the past and all I can say is I disagree with it. I have not been able to duplicate it in any practical manner.

I have 5 of these sights and they are one of highest rated optics out there, so for the majority of owners they must be working.

The fact that they are only $90 is not something to get too worked up about. It just means you don't have to pay as much to get an optic that might just work real well for you.

If you think it is a *** then you can always send it back and get your money back.

I would point out that few do actually send them back. Midway USA has this item listed at 4.5 stars out of 5 with 104 reviews.

Hard to argue with those kinds of numbers?

I just bought a scope mount from Pyramyd Air for my R1 air gun. It had over 200 5 star reviews. It was $14.95 and works great on a gun that kills this type of thing easily, and it replaced mount that was $70 and wouldn't hold position..

Sometimes you actually get more than you think you paid for. They call those things " bargains."

Randy

[NSB]

"If you think it is a *** then you can always send it back and get your money back.
I would point out that few do actually send them back.
Midway USA has this item listed at 4.5 stars out of 5 with 104 reviews.
Hard to argue with those kinds of numbers"?

Line #1) I did, twice. Every other one I've seen is the same.
Line #2) Most people don't know the difference. As long as it has a light inside it's cool. Most people can't shoot good enough to tell the difference and don't know how to check to tell if it has parallax or not.
Line #3) No one uses them in competition. At least not anyone who wins. Want to guess why?
If it's good enough for your use then I'd say you're all set to go. If you're seriously looking for a good quality sight I'd look somewhere else. I guess it just depends on your skills, needs, and expectations from your equipment. Declaring that they're as good as anything else is just reverse snobery. Kind of like the guy who shows up at the sporting clays course and declares his Rem 870 express is as good as any of the Kriegoffs or Perazzi shotguns being used and then proceeds to shoot a twelve or thirteen on a fifty shot course. I'd be a lot more impressed if he shot a 38, 39, or a 40 to back up what he was saying. Not knocking the Rem Express, just saying that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear as the old saying goes.

[MtGun44]

"infinite parallax" ?

Do you mean parallax-free at infinity? I think they are supposed to be parallax free at any distance.

Of course, they are mounted above the barrel centerline, so there is some offset at the muzzle and shorter
distances, as the boolit rises up to the line of sight at some distance where it is "sighted in".

Bill

[fecmech]

The point about being able to move the dot around at close range is true,,,, But you have to move your head into a position that would never occur when shooting in order to do it..
I would respectfully disagree with you. The one I sent back was at arms length on my bench and by simply nodding my head up and down like you would be saying yes to someone gave me the 2"@50 yds. The others at the LGS were similar. If yours are good that's great, the ones I looked at weren't. I really wanted them to work as I like the size and integral mount but I passed on them because of the parallax.

[W.R.Buchanan]

NSB: The vast majority of shooters can't tell the difference, and that's the whole point.

If you can't tell the difference then why pay for a higher grade item. Also with a 3 MOA Dot the best you're going to shoot is 3" at 100 yards anyway. For the vast majority of uses this is more than good enough.

I have no problem with others buying more expensive toys, (I'd love to have a K20, but my Citori will have to do) however like the guy with the Remy 870 you sited, if they can't shoot any better with the better optic, then what's the point?

That's "Reverse Reality."

You've shot a lot of competition, so you've seen many of them come and go. Some people will spend any amount of money to shoot better, but in the end it is just like Golf, and your talent always trumps your equipment. I guess some people can have fun by just showing up and looking good.

We're on the same page here, we're just at opposite ends of the paragraph. :mrgreen:

Randy

[NSB]

Randy, you can shoot better groups than three inches even with a three inch dot. If you suspend the three minute dot on top of a five or six minute bull you can shoot groups sub moa. Really. I do it all the time and others do it also. The size of the dot in itself doesn't limit the group size if it's used that way. Try it sometime. Put a four inch or five inch bull on a target and center the red dot in the middle of the bullseye. If the gun is capable of shooting smaller groups you will get smaller groups. My latest toy is a Win 1886 in 45-70. I'm getting groups of around 1.5-1.8" (five shots) at 100yds. I put a five inch bull on the paper and center the dot. It's not that hard to do. Use a black bull so the dot shows up well and you get good contrast between the red dot and the black bull.

[27judge]

I have a delta point mounted on a Fusion 1911 45 its a very nice red dot . I also have a c-more mounted on a custom 1911 10mm . So far the c-more is just as nice as the delta point and easier to change the battery and adjust the sight. I have 2 delta points I had to send both back for bad circuits which leupold covered no cost to me tks KEN

[NSB]

I have a leupold ultra dot mounted on a Fusion 1911 45 its a very nice red dot . I also have a c-more mounted on a custom 1911 10mm . So far the c-more is just as nice as the ultra dot and easier to change the battery and adjust the sight. I have 2 ultra dots I had to send both back for bad circuits which leupold covered no cost to me tks KEN

I think you may have mistyped here. Leupold doesn't make Ultra Dots. UltraDot is it's own company and unless something changed quite recently has nothing to do with Leupold. Leupold does make red dot sights but they are not called ultra dots.

[27judge]

You are correct I changed the post. got the names mixed up. I also have a ultra dot for my BFR JRH. Tks for the notice KEN

[ole 5 hole group]

Of course, they are mounted above the barrel centerline, so there is some offset at the muzzle and shorter
distances, as the boolit rises up to the line of sight at some distance where it is "sighted in". Bill

I know what you were trying to convey, but I think you probably meant to say "when the boolit crosses the line of sight" as I think that ole boolit starts dropping the moment it leaves the barrel and never does a 180 until it strikes an almost immoveable object????

[NSB]

Here's a group fired from my Win/Miroku 1886 using a Burris FastFire3 with a 3moa dot.
93194

[W.R.Buchanan]

NSB: I'll try it, I can see how indexing the dot on a point on the target would generate smaller groups. The 3MOA I was referring to was the other people we were talking about.

The only thing that has changed at UltraDot is the fact that the guy who was running the company (who is best buds with my UPS guy) is getting divorced from Ultradot's daughter, so there is a little shake up in the company right now until the new chain of command gets sorted out.

My UPS guy doesn't get to go to SHOT this year as a result, and he's bummed .

Randy

[fecmech]

I'll try it, I can see how indexing the dot on a point on the target would generate smaller groups. The 3MOA I was referring to was the other people we were talking about.
Also it helps Randy turn the dot down to the dimmest setting you can plainly see. This sharpens up the dot and cuts the halo or chromatic aberration around the dot.

[NSB]

Also it helps Randy turn the dot down to the dimmest setting you can plainly see. This sharpens up the dot and cuts the halo or chromatic aberration around the dot.

Yep, what he said. Spot on advice.