Help with new muzzle loader

[Exal]

So I got a new hawken for for Christmas and am fairly new to black powder. I am wondering what size ball and patch I need, I've done some research and have a few ideas but don't know exactly what should be done. I've measure my barrel and I got .50 land to land and .52 grove to grove. I am thinking about using a .500 ball and .018 pillow ticking. What do y'all think, should I stick with that or go to a .495 ball and .020 cotton patch or something different for starting out. Also while I'm asking y'all this i might as well ask y'all how exactly I go about shooting a mini ball I've got the mold but haven't cast any yet. What I understand is that all I do is throw in the black and shove in the mini ball after and it's ready to fire, is this correct?

[PTS]

In my Kentucky flintlock I shoot conicals; hollow-based conicals work the best in mine. Conicals do not require nor should have a patch. With hollow-based conicals the “skirt” will expand into the rifling which is what keeps the gasses behind the conical. Loading is simple-pour in a charge and seat the conical on top of the powder. I like to tamp hard 5 times after seating, but that’s what works well for me and my gun. Do your mini balls have a flat or hollow base? I suspect if one used soft lead then a flat base would work but the sizing will be more critical. I haven’t shot patched ball in so long that I don’t have any advice for that. Have fun!

[tomme boy]

What brand is it? The T/C muzzleloaders have a very shallow land to grove. They USUALLY shoot better with a 0.490" ball and a 0.019" patch. CVA, Traditions, Cabela's brand like the 0.495" ball and a 0.012" patch.

You will just have to experiment to find out.

[Zymurgy50]

If you can find them I would get some .490 and .495 round balls to start, and patches in .010, .015, and .020. Every muzzleloader is different in what it shoots best, for punching holes in paper I use 50gn of 3f, a .495rb, and a .015 patch lubed with spit. For punching holes in deer I bump the powder charge up to 80gn with the same ball and patch.

The minnies are gonna need some lube to keep the fouling soft, and you may or may not get better results with a felt wad between the minnie and the powder.


Biggest buck I ever harvested was taken with 350gn minnie over 80gn 2f, one shot straight on, minnie completely penetrated the deer longways..... DRT.

[Exal]

Thanks for the info. Ya the mini ball has a hollow base, I had a feeling it worked like that but just didn't want to get out there and do something wrong! I guess I can shoot those while I'm gathering up the round ball stuff

[pietro]

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I would check the rifling twist of your "Hawken's" barrel, first.

T/C Hawken's usually have a 1:48 twist, that T/C says is good for either conicals or PRB's (patched round balls); but a given bbl from any maker could also have a 1:28 twist best for conicals) or a 1:60/1:66 twist (best for PRB's).


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[Pb2au]

I would suggest you start with a .490 round ball. As for the patch, Zymurgy nailed it. Get some 0.010", 0.015 to get started. Save yourself some dough and take your micrometer to your local fabric store and find some linen or 100% cotton material in those thicknesses.
Some ML shooters prefer a tight fit, some loose. For me, I do not prefer a super tight fit. By that I mean I do not use a short starter to get the ball and patch going down the bore. Just firm pressure with my thumb, cut off the excess patch and run it home with the ram rod.
If you can source it, use real black powder, start with 70 grains of 2f.
Happy shooting!

[Exal]

It's a traditions hawken with a 1:48 twist. As for the lube on the mini ball I was thinking about putting them in my lubrisizer and filling them up in the grooves (good idea or no??). Ok well I guess I'll go buy all different sizes and work myself up. One more thing should I get pre lubed patches or do as pb2au says and just go buy some at walmart or hobby lobby?

[Exal]

Another question is if anyone knows if I can buy different sights for it, those plastic sights army worth a ****, I've already broke the rear shift by tightening a screw on it.

[Pb2au]

It's a traditions hawken with a 1:48 twist. As for the lube on the mini ball I was thinking about putting them in my lubrisizer and filling them up in the grooves (good idea or no??). Ok well I guess I'll go buy all different sizes and work myself up. One more thing should I get pre lubed patches or do as pb2au says and just go buy some at walmart or hobby lobby?

You can buy the prelubed ones which are available at the usual sporting good stores. In what I described, you will just go buy a half yard of the material itself and add whatever lube you wish.
I would suggest buttoning down with your friend google and start with doing some research on the basics of loading and firing a muzzle loader. Just remember, keep it simple.
If I remember correctly, there was a book the was called "The Muzzle loaders handbook". I had a copy a zillion years ago and it was a decent reference. See if you can scare up a copy. Also head over to your local library and look for a copy of Foxfire 5. It has a whole section dedicated to muzzle loaders and is what got me going long long ago.

[Pb2au]

I am going to assume that the sights are dovetailed into the barrel.
I would suggest heading over here>>>>>>>>>http://www.dixiegun.com/ And see what they have. They are good outfit with acres of muzzle loader stuff.
You can also check here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.midwayusa.com/

[Exal]

The front is dovetail. But the back is what I cracked and it has two screws that are pretty close together and can't find anything that fits. @pb2au I've been doing ton of research and got an idea of it all and I've been shooting my .44 navy for about a year now, it's just that I don't want to do anything wrong, and have it blow up, lol. Thanks for the info though I'll go on amazon and try to find those, hopefully I can find a copy.

[Pb2au]

Cool.
Definately go find the foxfire 5 book. Great info in there. Also hit YouTube and look for a channel from a guy called duelist1954. He does a couple of nice videos on loading ml rifles.

[Exal]

Alright awesome, y'all have helped out a lot. And especially pb, thank you for the advice it'll help out a lot. This has made most things clear to
Me now!

[mooman76]

I also would start with some .490 RBs. and some patches of different thickness. .500 you probably won't even be able to get down the bore. You can always go to a thicker patch but can only go so thin. If you think you can move up to a bigger ball then go with some .495s.

[oldracer]

In my 50 caliber muzzle loaders I use a 0.490 round ball that I make myself and for patches I bought a yard of "pillow ticking" in blue/while from the local Walmart. I cut strips, then squares and finally sniped off the corners so they were "sort of round" and work extremely well. I lube about 100 a bunch with Bore Butter, squish them all around in a ziplock bag and then safe them. I figure I have about 6000 or so which should last a long time. This ball and patch combo is just slightly loose but shoots well enough to let me win a few matches.

[Wayne Smith]

Call the guys at BACO, that's Buffalo Arms Co. Tell them what you have and ask them what sight might fit. I know you will get an honest answer from them if they know, and they will tell you if they don't. You might do the same thing at Dixie but I have no idea who answers the phone for them.

[nicholst55]

Track of the Wolf also stocks a lot of sights for muzzle loaders; they'll also take the time to sort through them to find what you need.

Track of the Wolf (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Category.aspx/632#872)

[Wolfer]

The minis are simple. Fill the base with crisco and seat right on top of the powder. Three F black works the best for me, around 70 gr. I haven't had as good a luck with any of the subs I've used.
My inline shoots round balls great with 50 gr of powder. My twist is too fast for any more. As far as patches go I just use a wore out shirt if I can push a ball down the barrel. My mold throws .490 balls.

[Freightman]

Please mark your ram rod one mark for empty and one mark for loaded.

[Exal]

Lol ya already have. Well for empty anyways

[Exal]

@wolfer, do you just mean crisco vegetable shortening? Just grab a scoop with my finger and pack it in?

[Pb2au]

Yep. Crisco shortening is correct.

[725]

Contact the maker of your rifle and ask for an owner's manual. It will list loads and components appropriate for that make and model. All the info offered here is good stuff, but you should always make a comparison to the "book". What works for one isn't necessarily the right stuff for the one you have in your hand. You don't have to invent the wheel all over again. The manufacturer will tell you what works and what is safe in their product.

[KCSO]

Take some sample balls and patching marerial and do this. put the cloth over the muzzle and push the ball down into the bore and then pull it back out. Examine the ball and look for the weave of the cloth to be imprinted in the ball showing the lands and grooves. For hunting or quick loading just the lands is fine and for target accuracy you might want to have bothe the lands and groove show some imprint. This is the biggest part of sucessfull muzzleloading, expirimenting to see what workes best in your gun. I once spent several weeks of range work working up a 100 yard load for my match rifle.

[John Allen]

Please mark your ram rod one mark for empty and one mark for loaded.

Freightman great advice.

[rmark]

For .50 muzzleloader start with .490 lead balls and .010, .015, and .020 un-lubed precut patches. Lube the patch with saliva, just wet it in your mouth. After pouring the powder in the barrel, center the ball on the patch at the muzzle, keeping the muzzle pointed away from your face. If using a wood ramrod, grip it nearer the muzzle and push the ball/patch down the barrel using several shorter strokes until seated on the powder (gripping the rod high you may bend it, break it, and run the broken end into your arm).

With a minie, use soft lead in your mould. Lube the outside with Crisco or similar. It should be a sliding fit with little resistnace while going down the barrel.

[h8dirt]

Make absolutely sure your patching is 100% cotton, unsized and with no "treatment". Look for a very tight weave. Pillow ticking is a good material and you can probably find it in thicknesses from about 0.010" to 0.018" in thickness. For me, using your barrel dimensions, I'd start with a 0.500" ball and 0.015" patching. Yeah, I know, the math doesn't work -- but if you have a well polished bore and a rifling twist that is optimal (say, 1:60 to 1:66) for a patched round ball, this combination will really shoot.

[Exal]

Ok hey again. I received my sizer dye for my lubrisizer today and sized a couple miniballs ( I also lubed them with a 55/45 beeswax crisco lube with a dash of olive oil). The problem is is that I can just drop the miniball in now, it pretty much goes all the way to the bottom of the barrel but won't come out when I tip it over. Is this how it's supposed to be or should I stick with the fresh cast and have to ram them down the barrel. They drop at about .50 with the mold and the sizer sizes them to .499. With them straight out of the mold I can start it with my thumb and use the ram rod to drive it home. Srry if I'm not making to much since I'm am fairly new to this.

[mooman76]

They should slide down fairly but you don't want them to slide forward of the powder if you turn the rifle over. Keep in mind after your fouling shot they will fit a little tighter.

[JeffG]

I have a .50 cal Green Mountain 1 in 70 RB barrel on my TC Hawken. I started with .490 and .495 RB, patch with .018-.020 ticking, ahead of 70 gr Goex FF. The patches were blowing out with .490 and on 2 sides with the .495. The RB was out of round by .001 to .002 as I recall. I ended up getting a Lyman .500 (which I no longer see in their lineup). These came out of the mold at .502 and with the .018-.020 ticking are a pretty tight fit getting it in the muzzle. In any event, I love that combination, the recovered patches look great and didn't leak any gasses and it is accurate. I'm just target shooting with it so swab after each shot.

Pay close attentions to the recovered patches, they will tell you a lot.