Rem model 51 back in production

[starnbar]

Has anybody seen the new model or shot one yet?

[376Steyr]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/01/remington-announces-r-51-pistol/

FWIW. Article says they'll be shipping 1st of February. A 20 oz. 9mm Luger compact sounds good to me. I think I'll get in line.

[Jupiter7]

Saw on 1911 forum yesterday. I may be a buyer...
Jeff Quinn at gunblast.com has a write-up on his site also.

[Marvin S]

For a new one it looks pretty good to me. The price is also very reasonable.

[lancem]

Not that I need one but I sure would like to touch one for a while, I like it's looks.

[FergusonTO35]

They look pretty sweet, I hope the quality matches. Glad to see R-P is getting back into pistols.

[JHeath]

Wow. I never thought I'd live to see the return of the Model 51. Just . . . wow.

I paid almost the same money for a 92 year old Rem 51 .380 last year. The old .380 is a quarter-inch thinner. Otherwise the dimensions are the same. The original was an outstanding pistol, but hot loads might crack the breech block, for which nor replacements exist.

A Model 51 I can shoot all day in 9mm+P? MINE.

With the Pedersen action, and all-metal? MINE.

Anybody else here a booming sound over the horizon? Could it be a revived Model 53, the Remington .45 acp that the Navy/Marines ordered, but did not receive because of the First World War?

[Fishman]

Very interesting. With a street price under $350 it looks good. The mode of operation as described is strange. It extracts slightly as a blowback action, then locks until the pressure disappates. I wonder if that might affect the brass in some way.

[SethD]

I like the lines of this gun. With this price point especially, if Remington can make it reliable I think they will have a major winner. It looks like it would be very ergonomic and a natural pointer in the hand. Very few modern carry pistols have that trait. A lot of the competitors pistols have all the natural pointing ability of a brick.

[JHeath]

I like the lines of this gun. With this price point especially, if Remington can make it reliable I think they will have a major winner. It looks like it would be very ergonomic and a natural pointer in the hand. Very few modern carry pistols have that trait. A lot of the competitors pistols have all the natural pointing ability of a brick.

The old Model 51 is still famous as a natural pointer. The ergonomics of the new R51 appear similar. Also -- very important -- the R51 has the barrel passing through the recoil spring. I.e. the spring does not require a separate channel below the barrel. This lowers the bore axis very close to the top of the hand. Reduces muzzle flip to a minimum, and aids pointing.

There's video of the R51 being fired and it looks really controllable:
http://www.gunblast.com/Remington-R51.htm

[bedbugbilly]

If the quality is there, I think this is going to be a real "winner". I like the looks and the features of it - I think it has great promise. I like it enough it's moved up to the top of my "want" list.

[LouisianaMan]

I've pre-ordered one with my LGS, which is something I've never done before :-) Initial reports are highly favorable, and I love the original Remington 51 so much, that it's worth it to me to compare the two, if nothing else.

And full disclosure, I wrote Remington a year or two ago and asked them to consider reintroducing the gun with some modern re-engineering, and promised I'd buy at least one if they did. I wrote that just because I admire the original gun so highly, and never dreamed that they were already working on it!

Actually, I fully expect it will become my primary carry gun, and will be surprised if that doesn't come to pass. The original version conceals easily, points more naturally than any other automatic I know, and shoots faster and softer than any plain blowback .32 or .380 I've ever tried. The ergonomics keep the muzzle low, rather than flipping up with each shot, so I think I empty the mag quicker than anything else I've tried, perhaps excluding Ruger .22's that weigh 2 pounds.

I reload for my original in caliber .380, and experience no problems with it damaging brass in any way.

Best I can tell from the initial review I've read, the modern R-51 fixes the problems that the original design had: awkward manual safety, somewhat fragile breechblock, no slide lockback on empty mag (although you could lock it back using the manual safety). I've long felt that it's far easier to strip & reassemble than Internet lore generally indicates; nonetheless, the new gun has an easy takedown like we've become used to in recent years.

[mpbarry1]

I want to try one! I had always hoped that Sig would build a nine on the P232 frame, but that is strictly a blowback system so it might not be possible. I want to try one out at any rate!

[JHeath]

I want to try one! I had always hoped that Sig would build a nine on the P232 frame, but that is strictly a blowback system so it might not be possible. I want to try one out at any rate!

Thus the advantage of the Pedersen system in the Model 51/R51. A blowback 9mm+P would need a super-heavy slide.

A swinging-link 9mm could not have the recoil spring surrounding the barrel (I think) because the barrel would tilt. The tilt-barrels all have the barrels raised high enough to position the recoil spring below in a separate channel.

The original 51 had a lower barrel axis and a lighter slide than blowback pistols. The drawback was expense of manufacture. Looks like CNC and MIM made it possible for Remington to revive the Pedersen design at an astounding price-point.

The R51's form and size is very close to the old 51 on the table next to my computer, but the new one is a 9mm+P! The styling details look like a Nike shoe to a conservative like me, but so what? It's a new 51, Pedersen action, all-metal, and looks like a terrific bargain.

The old one looked like a ray-gun in its day, too.

[220swiftfn]

Wow. I never thought I'd live to see the return of the Model 51. Just . . . wow.

I paid almost the same money for a 92 year old Rem 51 .380 last year. The old .380 is a quarter-inch thinner. Otherwise the dimensions are the same. The original was an outstanding pistol, but hot loads might crack the breech block, for which nor replacements exist.

A Model 51 I can shoot all day in 9mm+P? MINE.

With the Pedersen action, and all-metal? MINE.

Anybody else here a booming sound over the horizon? Could it be a revived Model 53, the Remington .45 acp that the Navy/Marines ordered, but did not receive because of the First World War?

I saw the thread title and thought they were talking about the original 51 as well......



Dan

[Chihuahua Floyd]

Not a 9mm fan, but if it is coming out in 40 S&W with good sights, I am real interested.
CF

[Petrol & Powder]

It's got real potential. Simple, slim, snag-proof lines, +P rated, intuitive operation, good price. If it shoots well and proves to be durable - Remington may have a winner.
In the words of the Zen Buddha Master, "We'll See"

[JHeath]

I saw the thread title and thought they were talking about the original 51 as well......



Dan

It's not an exact clone, but surprisingly close. It is a Pedersen action, the dimensions and shape are nearly the same, single action, internal hammer, etc. Appears to be a genuine improvement over a classic -- which is a rare achievment. And I misspoke before, the new one is only around 1/8" thicker than the old one, impressive considering the old one was a .380 and the new one is 9mm+P and .40

The styling cues are different, but that's just cosmetic.

[LouisianaMan]

Sights look like Remington's attempt to mollify Modern School shooters (remember when that was a modern term?) and not hurt the feelings of old-school, one-handed point shooters too badly. The original gun was, naturally, intended for the self-defense needs of people who assumed that pistols were one-hand guns used at close range. Thus, the gun was built & advertised as the "self-aiming" gun, and its natural pointability was intended to be the usual aiming system, not its vestigial sights.

I hope the modern sights don't reduce the smooth original lines & concealability, although I expect Remington has busted their collective tail to avoid offending either modern shooters or us traditionalist throwbacks.

Maybe the R-51 shoots like a sniper rifle, but I hope it's judged by its point-and-shoot capabilities. . .and I hope it'll point-and-shoot like the original!

[Love Life]

I'm very interested. Especially since the people shooting it in the pictures were wearing 5.11 tactical pants...

I'll let them hit the streets for a bit before I buy, but one of these is on the list for this year. Now if only Colt would bring back the Vest Pocket Auto...

[mpbarry1]

dangit! I dont own any tactical pants! Well, do wranglers count?

[9.3X62AL]

9mm +P I heard about......40 S&W also? (drool.....)

[Love Life]

I bet the 147 gr GD load would be perfect...

[9.3X62AL]

I bet the 147 gr GD load would be perfect...

Heresies of this sort crop up frequently. Most regrettable. :)

7+1 in 9mm would work for me. Wonder what the projected mag capacity will be in 40 S&W. At MSRP of $389, one in each caliber wouldn't be a huge strain or drain. Sometimes......9mm platforms don't adapt well to 40 S&W backthrusts. I can REALLY see our daughters going bonkers over these pistols. Marie, too. One 9mm will be ordered at the LGS tomorrow, I can imagine that demand will be strong right from the git-go.

[JHeath]

7+1 in 9mm would work for me. Wonder what the projected mag capacity will be in 40 S&W. At MSRP of $389, one in each caliber wouldn't be a huge strain or drain.

Or buy a 9mm R51, then wait to see if Remington resurrects the larger version, the Model 53 .45acp that the Navy/Marines decided was more accurate and had less recoil than the 1911, was also lighter, and with fewer parts. The Navy Dep't wanted to order 75,000 of Model 53s and replace all existing handguns in inventory, but the deal fell through after WWI for lack of funds. Maybe I will get a chance to own one yet.

I posted a photo of the M53 prototype further up in this thread.

If Remington can sell the 51 for under $400, the full-size Model 53 .45 could be competitive with the current 1911 market, and sounds like it had some real advantages over the Browning design. It would be great to see Remington take a swipe at the the 1911 industry by reviving a 95 year old competitor.

[dubber123]

t.


If Remington can sell the 51 for under $400, the full-size Model 53 .45 could be competitive with the current 1911 market, and sounds like it had some real advantages over the Browning design. It would be great to see Remington take a swipe at the the 1911 industry by reviving a 95 year old competitor.

Except Remington is now part of the 1911 industry..

[9.3X62AL]

And the Marlin levergun industry. RemGreen is trying to out-Rugerize Ruger! :)

[JHeath]

Except Remington is now part of the 1911 industry..

Never too late to start doing the right thing!

[220swiftfn]

It's not an exact clone, but surprisingly close. It is a Pedersen action, the dimensions and shape are nearly the same, single action, internal hammer, etc. Appears to be a genuine improvement over a classic -- which is a rare achievment. And I misspoke before, the new one is only around 1/8" thicker than the old one, impressive considering the old one was a .380 and the new one is 9mm+P and .40

The styling cues are different, but that's just cosmetic.

Yes, but the "cosmetic" is the difference between a VW Beetle and a Porche.......... Not knocking the new one mind you, but when I saw the thread title......


Dan

[bruce drake]

Plastic frame...I'd rather have of the metal frame but the design is intriguing. I'm committed to 2 other 9mm chambered pistols so I'll wait for a 380 or 32ACP Model R51 to come out.

Bruce

[John Allen]

It will be interesting to see how it sells.

[dubber123]

Plastic frame...I'd rather have of the metal frame but the design is intriguing. I'm committed to 2 other 9mm chambered pistols so I'll wait for a 380 or 32ACP Model R51 to come out.

Bruce

Bruce, I think it's aluminum framed. I would prefer steel, but for the cost, I'll try aluminum.

[rintinglen]

Jeff Quinn says they are Aluminum framed and that he and several other gun writers shot them at Gunsite.

[9.3X62AL]

Jeff Quinn says they are Aluminum framed and that he and several other gun writers shot them at Gunsite.

This was my understanding from the Quinn article text, also. The sample pistols were shot pretty extensively, from what I read. None of them blew up or shed parts, apparently. These are intriguing little units. I did stop at the LGS today, and they will be looking carefully at the R51s at the SHOT Show. My inquiry was one of many similar questions on these pistols. Of course, Show samples will be prepped and selected units; "mill run" examples might not be to that standard. You pays yer money and takes yer chances, I suppose. I didn't leave a deposit.

[TheGrimReaper]

It does look pretty sharp.

[bruce drake]

well the thing looks like a polymer frame. I'm still reserving judgement as to its longevity being fed 9mm+P.

I do think it would be excellent chambered in either 380ACP or 32 ACP...

Bruce

[Bzcraig]

Like Lovelife I'll give it some time in production. If it makes the CA approved list I'll get one.

[MtGun44]

From the Quinn test drive article:

"The R51 is constructed of aluminum and steel; no polymer frame on this one. "

That should end that speculation.

Interesting design, and the details seem well thought out, but there are already a lot of
9mms out there, and this doesn't seem as small and light as some others. Of course,
some do not want the smallest and lightest possible, but many do.

Bill

[Mk42gunner]

I'll wait to see one in person, but this may just get to be the third 9mm that I own.

I may just have to start loading for the 9mm, yet another set of dies to be on the lookout for...

Robert

[JHeath]

92951
Yes, but the "cosmetic" is the difference between a VW Beetle and a Porche.......... Not knocking the new one mind you, but when I saw the thread title......


Dan

Maybe Remington can do better and duplicate the original Model 53. That one was more graceful than a Sig P210. Here's another view.

[220swiftfn]

92951

Maybe Remington can do better and duplicate the original Model 53. That one was more graceful than a Sig P210. Here's another view.

I don't know...... It kinda looks like an Astra........


:kidding:


I just figured that they're "re-introducing" (recycling???) just about everything else these days (car body styles, movies, etc.)




Dan

[Groo]

Groo here
A 51 in 357sig and a 53 in 10mm PLEASE.........

[JHeath]

I don't know...... It kinda looks like an Astra........


:kidding:


I just figured that they're "re-introducing" (recycling???) just about everything else these days (car body styles, movies, etc.)




Dan

Which is interesting because most retro products copy the style but miss the substance. Like the new cars that take a few styling cues from the original but no mechanical similarity.

The R51 has new styling (not retro), but appears to have all the substantive mechanical design of the Model 51, excepting two recognized issues of the original (sights and slide lock).

That is, unless Dan is right and Remington was trying to rehash the Astra style and by chance goobered up the mechanical design into something Pedersen-like. [insert smiley]

[220swiftfn]

Which is interesting because most retro products copy the style but miss the substance. Like the new cars that take a few styling cues from the original but no mechanical similarity.

The R51 has new styling (not retro), but appears to have all the substantive mechanical design of the Model 51, excepting two recognized issues of the original (sights and slide lock).

That is, unless Dan is right and Remington was trying to rehash the Astra style and by chance goobered up the mechanical design into something Pedersen-like. [insert smiley]

Hey, I can accept that kind of screwup!!!


Dan

[9.3X62AL]

Hey, I can accept that kind of screwup!!!


Dan

Me, too--and quite happily. If it turns out to be one of those "Carried a lot and shot just enough" sitches, at less than $400 MSRP it has served its role well.

[rking22]

A little off topic ,but in the vein of repros. Since Remington has resurected one Peterson design , I sure wish they would do up a nice Rem 25 in the original calibers and maybe 357 to make it modern! Those 25s are the sweetest handling 32-20s I've ever shot. All steel and walnut too. Won't replace my originals but I would jump right on a new one if done up right.
Sorry for the hi jak!

[Multigunner]

Last ressurected auto pistol design I looked into was the beautiful old Wolverine .22 pistol.
Unfortunately they decided to make those with a plastic frame instead of the original aluminum frame.
The Wolverine was designed to use materials less sturdy than steel, but I just never cottened to plastic frames. I don't even like plastic grips for that matter.

I'd like to see the original Model 51 manufactured today, even in .380.
But I had always wondered why they did not build this pistol in 9mm.