Light primer strikes - Marlin 36 in 38-55

[Muskyhunter1]

Having a problem in my old Marlin 36 that was barreled with an old Marlin 93 38-55 barrel (done years ago). The rifle shoots really well. I am using Winchester LR primers. About 2 out of every 10 shots would not go off. I figured weak hammer spring. I took it to the only gunsmith in the area about 2 hours away. They had the rifle for about 8 months (another issue:(). I finally got it back and now I have 2 misfires out of 50 rounds (better I guess). I don't want to take it back to the smith and miss another hunting season with her if I can help. I want to play with it:grin:.

I was wondering if CCI or another company maybe makes a softer primer that I might get more reliable ignition. Would I be safe using large pistol primers with cast bullets? My favorite load is 21 grain of 4224 behind a 250 Accurate Ranch Dog GC WW.

Any experiences how you resolved this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Dan Cash]

There are a couple of possible problems, neither of which should take 8 months to repair. Most likely, the two piece Marlin Safety firing pin is the problem.
When the lever is fully in the closed position, the breech lock is raised into the bolt and pushes the rear portion of the 2 piece firing pin into alignment with the front portion of the firing pin. If the front and rear portions of the Marlin Safety firing pin are not fully aligned, a light firing pin strike can occur.
Ensure that the rifle is unloaded and leave the bolt in the open, rearward position. Observe that the rear portion of the firing pin is tipped down toward the front of the bolt. Using your finger or a blunt tool, push up on the pivoted firing pin and check that it pivots up, parallel with the axis of the bolt. While holding the firing pin up, fress on the end of the firing pin with a ball point pen and make sure that it moves forward smoothly and that the firing pin protrudes from the face of the bolt.
If the rear portion of the firing pin does not pivot upward to lie parallel with the bolt axis, either dirt or a broken spring is preventing the movement and causing the light primer strikes as the rear portion of the firing pin is binding on the bolt and not fully contacting the forward portion of the firing pin. Disassemble, clean and replace the pivot spring.
If the rear portion of the firing pin pivots smoothly and completely, but pushing in on the rear of the firing pin while it is held in the aligned position is difficult and/or the front firing pin does not protrude from the face of the bolt, dirt and/or a broken firing pin is the problem. Disassemble, clean and replace forward firing pin.
Do not let any one sell you or install for you a one piece firing pin. It is unsafe and will allow your rifle to fire when the breech is not fully locked.
Do a search on the Marlin Owner forum, http://www.marlinowners.com/ gunsmithing section for instructions on disassembly of your rifle. It requires only a small punch, small hammer and a proper screwdriver and the repair can be done in under 30 minutes.
parts are available from Chas. Jones http://www.chasjonesgunparts.com/page/page/498048.htm. Another good information resource is http://www.leverguns.com/articles/Marlin_Information.htm.
Good Luck and Good shooting.
Dan

[BABore]

Good info from Dan!

A few other items to check out. When you push the rear half of the firing pin forward, it can catch on a burr where the bolt is notched for the breach lock. If your going to take it apart anyway, polish the forward edge some. Getting the bolt apart can be a chore. The rear section of the firing pin is held in place with a single 1/16 solid pin that is exposed. The front, main portion of the firing pin is also held in place by a solid pin. It is hidden under the extractor that surrounds the front portion of the bolt about 270 degrees with a leg running forward to the bolt face with the extractor hook on it. This can be a bugger to get off without either breaking it, getting impaled, or both. I clamp the bolt in the "V" of a bench block and to my bench. A vise can be used with leather or lead jaws. I then use a pair of needle nosed pliers straddled over the bolt and apply a plier tip to each leg of the extractor. Then push it straight off. It takes some force to do. You can usually push it back on by hand, then rotate it slightly (if you miss the groove) with a small screw driver. The small spring that Dan mentioned that keeps the rear half of the firing pin misaligned is attached to a small cut on the front portion of the firing pin. Also, when your checking out the business end of the firing pin look to see if the very tip that strikes the primer is chipped. It should be cylindrical and smooth the a slightly rounded or convex shape. When I manually straighten out the rear pin half and push it all the way forward, my 36's firing pin protrudes from the bolt face 0.080 to 0.084" I'm not sure what the exact spec. is.

Now, all this info is good stuff, but also assumes that the bolt/firing pin are the problem. One way to tell is to look at all of your primer strikes. Are they all the same? If so, then you have a constant condition going on and I would look at the hammer spring first. It may just be weak with age and use. Pull the buttstock and look at how the hammer spring is held in place by the flat "J" shaped stamping. It's called a "Hammer Spring Stop". You'll see the top of the Stop bearing against the underside of the top strap and the lower free end engaged in a notch on the top of the lower tang. There should be two notches with your Stop in the rear most one. Note: I have seen some 36's with only one notch. With the hammer down, grab the Stop and rotate it to disengage it from its position. If your gun has two notches, reinstall the Stop in the forward notch. This will increase the spring force applied to the hammer. Give it a try and see if you still have misfires. If your stop is aleady in the front notch, it may have taken your LGS 8 months to figger out [smilie=b: and you know it helped but didn't quite work. Another thing you can try is to put a small washer between the Hammer Spring and Stop to increase force. If either method does stop the misfires, replace the Spring and get a spare as well.

One last thing to look at goes along with Dan's recommendation of the firing pin check. The 2-pc firing pin is straightened out by the locking bolt and the hammer, powered by the hammer spring, drives it forward to fire the primer. The locking bolt is driven to it's full upward position be the finger lever. A slightly bent lever could limit the upward travel. A weak finger lever latch spring may also let the lever droop a little as well.

Marlins are easy to work on and understand. Get a skematic of the 36 so you know all the parts and how they function and work together.

[Muskyhunter1]

Wow very impressive gents. You guys really know your stuff. Thanks. I will pull her out of the safe later tonight and have a look. I really like that old Gal and I would love to take her hunting next fall. Right now i just can't count on it.

I will report back.

Thanks.

[Gtek]

I would completely disassemble bolt just to clean and confirm, until you do you do not know what is going on in there. Years of WD-40, rust, junk, who knows what is living in there. Remove rear pin, remove front and clean with good cylindrical brush, an old bore brush of correct size will work. Install front firing pin into bolt by itself and confirm free movement and protrusion. All good- on to the rear. Also headspace should be confirmed, SAAMI .063"- .075". May be able to chase if large buy not full sizing and only pushing back a couple thousandths on shoulder. Mechanical must be confirmed to remove variables in search of solution. Gtek

[BABore]

Agreed!

I just picked up a 1948, 336 (1st year) in 32 Special. It now lies in approimately 38 pieces as the only thing I didn't remove is the barrel. I do believe that the last time this was done was in 1948 at Marlin. The bolt had enough goo, enameled WD-40, rust, and junk in it that the firing pin could barely move. A full strip down, cleaning, deburring, and tweaking is the first thing I do with these old girls.

[Muskyhunter1]

Well lads I took the Marlin 36 to the range today and tried it with different primers Win, CCI and Win Large Pistol primers. I still had misfires and light strikes but does it ever shoot great with my Accurate Mold Range Dog boolits. Thanks Tom.

I got home and I began to take the bolt out. I need to get a good pin set so I don't bugger it up too much before I go any further with the dis-assembly of the bolt. I pulled the bolt out and there does appear to be a burr on the front edge of the back firing pin. I took some pics as best as my camera permits - sorry. This is the only Mod 36 I have so I am not too sure if that looks normal.

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I noticed if I push the rear bolt forward (like the hammer would) with a pen tip it does catch on something in the bolt. If I push the back pin front up a little more it snaps and then travels further towards pushing the front firing pin fully out the bolt face.

My next question is based of your opinion of wear on the back firing pin. Should I order a new rear pin portion or do you think I could get away with just a polish job on the front of it? The front pin does float fairly nice but I will give it a good cleaning as suggested once I get a punch set

Thanks again for your help.

[BABore]

Take it apart and smooth it up first. Put it back together and see if you get enough firing pin protrusion at the bolt face. I'm not sure if the model 36 rear pin half is the same as the current model 336 or not. Might have a fun time finding one.

[Gtek]

May be my eyes, but first picture something stuck out. The rear pin does not appear to be sitting correctly. The angle cut on pin rear should be real close to parallel to bolt bottom if I think. Gtek

[Bodydoc447]

Many of the cowboy action shooters replace the two piece firing pins in their cowboy Marlin 94s with one piece firing pins. Long Hunter Shooting Supply in Amarillo has these for the 336, too. Don't know it that interests you or not but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Doc

[BABore]

May be my eyes, but first picture something stuck out. The rear pin does not appear to be sitting correctly. The angle cut on pin rear should be real close to parallel to bolt bottom if I think. Gtek

The depth of the cross pin retainer cut will allow some rotation. It might be on the generous side. This could allow the rear pin to hand up slightly as it's pushed forward. Polishing the end of the pin and tunnel entrance should help things.

[BABore]

Many of the cowboy action shooters replace the two piece firing pins in their cowboy Marlin 94s with one piece firing pins. Long Hunter Shooting Supply in Amarillo has these for the 336, too. Don't know it that interests you or not but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Doc

The one piece firing pin offered does disable one of the safety features of the Marlin design. Greater care must be taken if you use one.

[Muskyhunter1]

Ok lads I took the rifle apart and gave it a good cleaning. I pulled the pins and got both halves of the firing pin out and smoothed (polished) off the burr. I cleaned the firing pin and the channel and it slides freely back and forth. I took it to the range today and it is better but I still had a couple of misfires. I pulled the butt stock off when I got back from the range and it appears the spring is in the last groove. I tried a flat washer and there not enough room as I can't cock the hammer back with a washer in place.

93271

My question now is; does anyone know if the 336 and the 36 spring are the same and interchangeable? It looks to me like it is.

Thanks

[BABore]

From everything I've looked at, yes they are the same Hammer (Main) Spring.

[Muskyhunter1]

Thanks BABore I really appreciate that, Will get one ordered.

[Muskyhunter1]

Folks thanks for all your help. I purchased both firing pin parts and a new hammer spring. Took it to the range today and it fired flawless.

Thanks again for your help.

Musky

[Bigscot]

Musky,

What parts, (part numbers) and where did you get them. I have one doing the same thing but in 35 Rem. The problem I am having is with reloads. I am about to send my dies back to RCBS to have checked out. ( not the first time I have sent dies back). I tried a box of factory and everyone went boom first time.

Bigscot

[pietro]

Folks thanks for all your help. I purchased both firing pin parts and a new hammer spring. Took it to the range today and it fired flawless.

Thanks again for your help.

Musky


I luv it, when a plan comes together......... :D

.

[BABore]

Musky,

What parts, (part numbers) and where did you get them. I have one doing the same thing but in 35 Rem. The problem I am having is with reloads. I am about to send my dies back to RCBS to have checked out. ( not the first time I have sent dies back). I tried a box of factory and everyone went boom first time.

Bigscot

Your likely shoving the shoulder back too far when you resize the fired cases. It's harder to tell on the 35 Rem as the shoulder is so slight. Ink one up and back your die off some until your just shy of the shoulder. When you get it set right, either lock your nut or measure the shellholder to die end distance with feeler gauges for future setups. It's a very common problem with the 35.

[Bill*B]

I was getting misfires with my Winchester 94, and the cure was seating the primers right. If they are seated too far in or out the sensitivity is altered. Seems like 0.002" to 0.006" below the case head is ideal (that's from memory - better look it up!). Fiddling around with the seating depth made the problem go away for me. Just a thought! Good luck, and best regards. Bill

[Bigscot]

BABore,

Thanks for the info. I will try that. I usually crank the sizing die down to where it cams over on the shell holder.

Bigscot