Why I don't like jacketed bullets

[44man]

This is the damage. The shoulder is scrap.

[44man]

Site keeps locking up. I give up, can't post picture.

[Shiloh]

I'd like to see the pics.

I like cast boolits because they are virtually free of charge. I enjoy making them, loading and shooting them. All phases of the cast boolit experience are enjoyable to me. Dare I say therapeutic?

Shiloh :castmine:

[jeff223]

here's a picture of some damage from a boolit moving along pretty fast
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf02b3127cceb03ce466cf8900000036101AZtWzlu4csU
the deer didnt go down right there and needed to be tracked to the place of death,i would say 100yds

it wasnt a cast boolit tho!!35cal Hornady 180gr XTP moving over 2000fps

killed my first deer with a cast boolit last week but the hit was much differant and i recovered the boolit.it was a water quenched 35cal Ranch Dog boolit.the boolit did alot of bone damage and the penatration was unreal.

cast boolits are very cheap to shoot and make at this point but what one is better for hunting?cast or jacketed?that would be quite a debate.ive talked to J.D. Jones several times about this and he says saave the cast for plinking and target work and use jacketed for killing.who knows for sure what one is better?i do know one thing,shot placement is everything:-|

[44man]

Jeff, that is nothing but nasty!
I finally got the picture re-sized. Under the shoulders was a mess and it is bloodshot up into the neck. It took hours to clean them of blood and broken bone. This was a shot offhand at a moving deer around 55 yd's through a small opening in the limbs and brush. He went about 40 yd's.
The revolver is deadly, capable of 1" groups at 100 yd's and I have killed standing deer to that far offhand. My big problem with hard cast has been the close shots where I lost one last year and one this year. That is why I went to the Hornady. I don't have time to work with soft boolits in the middle of the season. I should have thought about last summer.

[jeff223]

was that kill from a Hornady XTP?

i dont have much or i should say any experance hunting with cast except for one kill last week but that one doesnt count because it was a front on shot through the neck and then into the spine,the boolit took out about 6 inch of spine and then went into the shoulder.pieces of bone from the spine took out the lungs

i plan on shooting a doe or two in the late doe season with the same cast boolits but i will wait for broadside shoulder lung shots.i want to see how the cast boolits work for that kind of shot.ive always used jacketed for hunting but i wanted to try cast.

i have to shoot the 357max with higher pressures and that means higher speeds so it will be interesting to see the results.i know Veral Smith states much slower speeds with cast kill faster than faster speeds but with the max i dont have that option

[Skrenos]

here's a picture of some damage from a boolit moving along pretty fast
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf02b3127cceb03ce466cf8900000036101AZtWzlu4csU


Damn, it ripped the skin right off!

[garandsrus]

Jeff,

Can you explain why you need higher pressures and speeds than a normal .357 Mag would produce?


i have to shoot the 357max with higher pressures and that means higher speeds so it will be interesting to see the results.i know Veral Smith states much slower speeds with cast kill faster than faster speeds but with the max i dont have that option

I just ordered a .357 Max barrel for a Contender so I am trying to learn about the caliber....

Thanks,
John

[45r]

Thats why I aim for a high shoulder shot.Not much bloodshot meat on the near shoulder(when shot from a treestand) and drops em in their tracks due to both legs being put out of use and nervous system shock.Might have some bloodshot meat on the far shoulder but at least the deer dies quickly.I grind everything but the chops,tenderloin,and hind-quarters and still end up with a lot of burger meat.A quick humane kill is more important to me than getting a little more meat.I think we feel better if the animal is harvested as cleanly as possible.I enjoy casting and using my own boolits but todays high-tech J-word bullets are hard to beat on deer size game when it comes down to quick terminal performance.I wish more hollow point kits will become available for cast boolits.It would be great to put a finished handload in a fixture and drill a well centered hollow-point.

[JSH]

My work with the max was very very limited. I can say the first one I had did like high upper end loads, to get the accuracy I was after.
I am not knocking jeff, but I think he should have known better than to use the bullet at that speed. I have no refernce material at hand, so I could be wrong. It sure looks like the bullet came unwound as soon as it hit a little flesh, if that is entrance side?
I looked at a few HP FLGC projectiles a few years back for my 35Rem rimmed. After a few phone calls and a little talking, the only bullet I would trust would be the Nosler partition.
If you use FLGC types to hunt with, stick with one designed for the 35 Rem and you should be good to go. But, why not just use a good CB with a big flat nose?
Jeff

[44man]

That was the Hornady 300 gr, .458 rifle bullet. They don't make an XTP in that diameter.
It was even worse then I thought once I started to butcher more. Blood was all the way down the chest too. It has been hanging for 4 days and never stopped bleeding. The more meat I removed the more it bled. I put the remains out on the lawn until I could take them down in the woods and there is a huge blood spot on the grass.
I don't like cleaning big bloody masses from every piece of meat.

[jeff223]

JSH the 180gr XTP was designed by Hornady with the 357max in mind.its a very good boolit and it held together like it should,it didnt even shed its copper jacket.from the looks of the picture i posted it does look like a total boolit blowup but that isnt the case at all.the boolit entered the shoulder area and traveled through both lungs and stopped on the far side of the rib cage just under the hide but back alittle from the last rib.the shot was a quartering to me shot and the penatration i got from the 180gr XTP was outstanding
here's a picture of the recovered boolit along with a loaded round and a new boolit to show how much the xtp expanded

i did in fact shoot a buck a couple of years ago with my 445 supermag.i had a max load of 296 under the cheap 240grain Remington JHPs.the 445sm pushes a 240grainer just over 2000fps and the entrance hole was the size of a baseball.i didnt have a clue at that time the Remingtons would come apart like that,i no longer use that boolit.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf02b3127cceb03ce71c0e5a00000036101AZtWzlu4csU

John the 357max works at a much higher pressure compaired to the 357mag.i have tried start loads of 296 and a few other powders and accuracy is OK but max loads produce the best accuracy from this barrel.this is my second 357max barrel and they both behaved the same.the 357max is a very easy caliber to load for and you can get moa and alittle smaller out at 100yds.im sure you will have fun working with your new barrel once you get it.also notice the 180grain XTP has two crimp groves.i returned my barrel to SSK and had it throated so i could use the second crimp grove and that inturn leaves more room for powder

[44man]

I agree with Jeff that the .357 max does not show it's accuracy until stepped up. I had the Ruger and it was the most accurate revolver I owned at the time. It hated light loads. It is a very tough cartridge in revolvers though, top straps and forcing cones take a beating.
I never hunted with mine but have to wonder how a rifle bullet would work

[45r]

Those 180 xtp's look like they would work real well in my Marlin 357CB.I think my 185OGF would work well also at 1800 fps using lil-gun powder.The 357Max in a contender sure did a number on that deer.