I'm getting a 1911, the not A1 kind

[Angus]

So after an ugly split between some family there is a 1911 carried by my former uncle's bootlegger grandfather back and forth to Canada during "business" trips that is looking for a home. I got the phone call a few days ago that it definitely needs to get out of his house, so I'll be taking possession of it pretty soon.

I know that the thumb safety is stuck from when I got to fondle it but otherwise the gun appears to be in good shape. It is in fair condition. It has some holster wear and some pitting on the slide, so it's not a collector piece as it stands. I'm just going to clean it up and keep it as a shooter and occasional winter carry piece.

Ive never owned a 1911, or a 45 period. Can an old 1911 handle the Lee 230-TC or is a RN my only option? Are there any quirks to the platform I need to be aware of? Are the old GI mags acceptable or am I going to want something more modern?

I'm stoked... really, really stoked. I've wanted a 1911 for a while. I had no idea I'd trip over an original.

[BCRider]

The TC boolits will do just fine. You just need to load them to the correct depth. If they do not have a cannelure groove you'll want to load them so that they have the shoulder between the conical and rear straight parts sitting just a little bit ahead of the casing mouth. The overall length at that point should be within the allowable range for overall length for .45ACP.

Um, keep in mind that the thumb safety only works if the gun's hammer is cocked. If it's lowered then the safety won't move. It'll in fact feel like it's "jammed".

[Angus]

Hehe, I bet that was the problem. I didn't realize that the safety only worked with the hammer cocked.

[pmer]

I'd be stoked too. Sounds fun.

[imashooter2]

Congratulations on your first.

It is my understanding that they didn't start to heat treat the slides until about 1924. I only shoot softball loads in Grampa's 1917 vintage Colt. 200 grain H&G 68 clones at ~720 fps.

Old USGI magazines will work just fine with it. If it comes with any half blue magazines be aware that they are worth quite a bit by themselves. Take a look on eBay and be amazed.

[35remington]

If it's vintage, the barrel has the narrow "hardball" throat. This isn't as limiting as some think it is, but it does prefer bullets with a rounded ogive to those that have semiwadcutting shoulders.

There are a generous selection of RN's and RNFP's that will work for both plinking and more serious pursuits. The inexpensive Lee 230 TC is also worth a try and you're not out much if it don't work. The bullets that have a meplat that feed will be first choice for the serious end.

Checkmate makes excellent NEW USGI magazines for it, and JMB's original design magazines are the best way to feed such a pistol. They produce a smoother feed than newer magazines that have features that really are drawbacks.

[smokeywolf]

They can be a little persnickety about overall cartridge length; especially if you're seating the longer truncated cones. Haven't had any issues with SWCs.

This may turn out to be your best Christmas ever.

smokeywolf

[MtGun44]

RN or TC will feed the best in pure military 1911s. Essentially all of the breed since about mid
90s have been throated for SWC and HPs, but the old pure military guns were not.

Take it easy on the old girl, no +P stuff, but it will run fine on normal milspec 820 fps loads with 230
boolits. Size to .452 and TAPER CRIMP as a separate operation and you will do well.

Sights are even MORE microscopic than the 1911A1s. I have installed a front on a 1911
and it is different and much smaller.

Bill

[Angus]

It's going to get the softest loads I can put through it. I don't have a need for speed in any of my handguns.

I was really liking the looks of Lee's 230gr TC. I think that will be where I start out with it. Now I just need to get my hands on the mold, dies, and small primer brass.

[Thin Man]

Angus, when you got to handle the 1911 earlier and found the thumb safety was frozen, was the hammer forward (in the fired position) or cocked? If the hammer is cocked, look for the plunger tube to be at fault. When the rear of the plunger tube moves away from the frame (after the staked rear leg fails to hold the tube against the frame) the thumb safety plunger falls out of time. That plunger tries to crawl past the side of the thumb safety below the shelf where your thumb operates the safety. This prevents the thumb safety from moving down into the firing position. You can move the plunger back into the tube with a pin punch, or other suitable tool, and at the same time move the thumb safety down into the firing position. If this is what you see, use caution (after getting the thumb safety down) and immediately lock the slide to the rear to clear the chamber of any ammo that may be present!

Congratulations on your new 1911! Yours is more than a desirable 1911 (which it obviously is), you have a family heirloom with a documented history. We wish it could tell tales of days gone past.

Thin Man

[seagiant]

Hi,
A 230 gr. boolit at 820 FPS? Yea,that works!!!

[country gent]

Angus, I would recomend doing a little checking on this fine piece of history, as most of the early pre war models are bringing a premium. Just something to think about there. Also keep in mind the saftey only works when cocked hence the term cocked and locked. A hammer down on a loaded chamber is not a safe form as no safteys can be ingaged and a hit on hammer can fire easily. Newer models have a firing pin block also that the older ones didnt. Shes a fine old piece of history and very a fine weapon. I would load a 200-230 grn bullet to just feed and function and enjoy shooting her. If it is an older gun replacing recoil spring and hammer spring would be a great start.

[DougGuy]

Pics will be appreciated, and like others have stated, the barrel would likely have the narrow throat, just a dip carved into the bottom of it. As cheap as a barrel is these days, you could drop in another barrel and throat it til it feeds empty cases and lay the original barrel away.

I'm having real good luck with some plated 230gr RNFP boolits over 5.4gr 231 in my 45s, pleasant to shoot and the barrel stays clean.

[scattershot]

A fine piece, with an interesting history. Congrats. You shouldn't have any trouble with the boolits you mention. The standard load with a 230 grain boolit has been 5.0 Bullseye forever. No need to hotrod it. Just enjoy it for what it is, and you can pass it down to your kids. The old mags should work fine, and if they don't usually replacing the spring is all that is necessary.

Good luck, and good shooting!

[bob208]

I would do a lot of checking before I did much cleaning up. it could be worth quite a bit as is. never discount the collector value till you find out.

[35remington]

country, hammer down on a loaded chamber is perfectly safe in terms of resisting a blow on the hammer when it is down. It has an inertial firing pin that is too short to reach the primer unless it is struck a full blow by the hammer from full cock. A blow on the hammer when the hammer is down will not fire a 1911 of this vintage. Can't possibly happen.

Try it with a chambered, primered, bulletless case and see for yourself. Tap the lowered hammer with a plastic headed or rawhide mallet.

[Charley]

country, hammer down on a loaded chamber is perfectly safe in terms of resisting a blow on the hammer when it is down. It has an inertial firing pin that is too short to reach the primer unless it is struck a full blow by the hammer from full cock. A blow on the hammer when the hammer is down will not fire a 1911 of this vintage. Can't possibly happen.

Try it with a chambered, primered, bulletless case and see for yourself. Tap the lowered hammer with a plastic headed or rawhide mallet.
Correct. DROPPING the gun can cause the firing pin to fly forward and discharge a round, but the hammer won't. Good idea to replace the firing pin spring while you are at it, can help keep that from happening.

[Angus]

Thin Man, I'm pretty sure I'd like to keep it's day-to-day history a mystery. The likelihood of a prohibition-era body count is pretty high.

country gent, it's being sold to me for the express purpose that it isn't going to get sold ever again. It's meant to stay in the family and that's where it'll be.

bob208, by cleaning up I meant that literally. It still has some unburnt powder in the bore from who-knows-when. I'm sure the internals are about as grimy as the original owner, too. The pitting and holster wear is going to stay just how it is with a thin coat of Mobil-1 10w30. I'll probably knock out a pair of curly maple grips and some new leather for it... That's something of a ritual for my handguns with easy grips.

So it sounds like I should respring the firing pin and slide. Would a reduced mainspring be in order too if I'm already going to be into it? Is there anything else that you guys would replace just due to the age of it?

[scattershot]

I don't know that I would replace any springs just yet. Shoot it and see how it goes, first.

[country gent]

Firing pin and recoil spring are in the slide easy to change. Mian spring is in the mainspringHousing in the grip frame along with the trigger return sear and grip saftey leg of the flat spring. More of a pain to get to. and get back together. A lighter main spring will likely aid the trigger pull but could also cause failures to fire. The old recoil spring may have taken a set and who knows when it was last changed same with the firing pin spring. Wolff has all these springs available.

[kens]

It's going to get the softest loads I can put through it. I don't have a need for speed in any of my handguns.

I was really liking the looks of Lee's 230gr TC. I think that will be where I start out with it. Now I just need to get my hands on the mold, dies, and small primer brass.

I recommend the LEE 6-cavity 230-TC mold. Their 6-cavity molds are (I think) much higher quality than the double cavity. I have that boolit in 6 banger, and it literally drops boolits out. Actually fun to cast with, it casts so easily. But, I get grease in the bevel base upon sizing. (standard grease groove)
My Norinco 1911 eats those TC boolits like a little kid with M&M's.

[imashooter2]

It's going to get the softest loads I can put through it. I don't have a need for speed in any of my handguns.

I was really liking the looks of Lee's 230gr TC. I think that will be where I start out with it. Now I just need to get my hands on the mold, dies, and small primer brass.

My steel load is 3.2 grains of Clays and the Lee 452-228-1R. Works very well for me with a 16 pound recoil spring in a Kimber. Would probably be just as good with the TC boolit. I've never chronographed it, but it probably runs under 700 fps.

[HeavyMetal]

Angus:
Springs take a set with age, mags, hammer spring, recoil spring, the whole 9 yards.

Sets are inexpensive replace all of them!

Don't buy fancy "reduced" power or more power spring kits, these things cause more problems in a stock 1911 than you can imagine standard power spring kit please.

I will also suggest you replace the original barrel, firat because the orginal barrel will help retain value of the pistol ( theft, fire, tornado's do occur) and this will help with insurance issues should the unthinkable happen. Second if thier is even a remote possibility of a "body count" a replacement barrel will remove about half the worry on that issue.

Please be careful if you decide to replace the barrel, way to many people think they know the 1911 platform and don't. Buy a barrel complete with link and bushing, do not let anyone convince you that it needs to be "linked up" because of it's age or what ever, that will make it a jammer for sure!

If you budget allows it buy a Bar-Sto barrel they are complete and drop in and you won't believe the accuracy!

[Angus]

HeavyMetal, the budget is definitely not there for a new barrel. As for the body count it was last fired before television let alone ballistics so I'm sure I don't have any real worries. I would just prefer to remain ignorant to the details.

I'll get a new spring set from Wolff and get to it once I get it in my grubby paws. It'll be a few weeks before I get it, but I'm some kind of excited about it.

[smokeywolf]

One of these days I'm going to have to get the old super 8 home movies transferred to DVD. Have movies taken in the 1960s of me at age 9 or 10, following a soda can down a dirt road going through an alfalfa field; plinking it with an original, bone stock, circa 1918 Colt 1911.

Same pistol in my son's hands, nearly 50 years later.

92667

smokeywolf

[Fire_Medic]

Awesome picture smokeywolf.

If I may ask at what age did you start teaching him how to shoot and with what pistol?

My oldest daughter turns 6 next may and I'm starting to think of when might be the best time……

We have the Family Picnic day for IDPA with the local club coming up soon and she's never been out. Not sure if all the noise from the shooting would be overwhelming or not.

Thanks
FM

[smokeywolf]

Both boys were introduced to firearms by age 7 or 8, in the form of cap guns; similar to my old "Fanner Fifty". At 9 or 10, they got some fairly high end airsoft "Desert Eagles" for Xmas. Just as I was taught, neither of them have ever been permitted to point any type of gun; water, cap, rubber band, etc. at any living critter.
Both have been taught that guns are for target shooting, defense of the innocent, harvesting of animals for food, or eliminating predators or scavengers who threaten their food sources or supplies. They have been taught that although guns can be fun, they are tools, serious tools. When in your hand, they require nothing less than all of your attention and are not to be handled carelessly or thoughtlessly. Safety has been, and remains number 1.
Both can act like normal, goofy, video game loving boys at home, but get them on the range and they're all business. They know the procedures and range etiquette better than most of the adults I've seen and frequently point out adults doing questionable and/or inappropriate things.

Both of my adolescent boys had fired 22, 38 SPL, 45 LC, and 45 ACP by the time they were 12.

smokeywolf

[Fire_Medic]

Thank you sir, much appreciated information. This is all new to me. Unfortunately my boys ain't swimming, and I was blessed with three girls. The oldest will be 6 in may but is very advanced for her age, and has an advanced curiosity too. She says she wants to go to the IDPA picnic coming up, and I'm thinking of taking her (obviously not to shoot anything that day, just to get her in an environment where people are shooting, and having fun safely with firearms) .

Happy New Year
FM

[smokeywolf]

Girls are no less capable than boys, and I've often seen girls outshoot boys and sometimes their dads. Girls frequently develop a better attention span at a younger age than boys.
Can't stress it enough; safety first, last and always. The slightest doubt about her mental readiness or maturity, postpone her introduction another year, or two, or whatever.

[Fire_Medic]

Girls are no less capable than boys, and I've often seen girls outshoot boys and sometimes their dads. Girls frequently develop a better attention span at a younger age than boys.
Can't stress it enough; safety first, last and always. The slightest doubt about her mental readiness or maturity, postpone her introduction another year, or two, or whatever.

Yes sir there is no rush on my part believe me. If she grows to shoot anything like her mother then I'm in trouble, lol.

Appreciate the info once again and my apologies to all for the side bar in this fine thread.

FM

[Gary Carter]

Thank you sir, much appreciated information. This is all new to me. Unfortunately my boys ain't swimming, and I was blessed with three girls. The oldest will be 6 in may but is very advanced for her age, and has an advanced curiosity too. She says she wants to go to the IDPA picnic coming up, and I'm thinking of taking her (obviously not to shoot anything that day, just to get her in an environment where people are shooting, and having fun safely with firearms) .

Happy New Year
FM

My kids were 5-6 years old when they started shooting .22 rifles 7-8 for .22 pistols. Before they were even that old they knew how to load and unload all my guns, and how to check for loaded/unloaded. By they were 10 they were shooting my .44 pistol with .44 special light loads and my brothers old Winchester Model 37 20ga. I feel as long as they are able to handle the firearm in a safe and supervised way they should start. Just don't scare them off with high recoiling firearms.

[Boogieman]

[QUOTE=Angus;2559023]HeavyMetal, the budget is definitely not there for a new barrel. As for the body count it was last fired before television let alone ballistics so I'm sure I don't have any real worries. I would just prefer to remain ignorant to the details.

I'll get a new spring set from Wolff and get to it once I get it in my grubby paws. It'll be a few weeks before I get it, but I'm some kind of excited about it.[/
The Wolff spring set is a good idea. Replace all the springs. It will reduce strain on your gun. The fireing pin spring is stronger than stock , that helps prevent firing if the gun is dropped. They are used by Wilson & most other custom builders. Ruger uses them along with an extra light firing pin in their SR1911.