Lyman

[bhn22]

We still see a lot of Lyman bashing around here. I find it surprising because I've had really good luck with them, much of my equipment is over 20 years old and still performs like new. The only real issue I had was a bad run of heating elements for my Mag 20 about ten years ago. My two tumblers have over 20 years each on them, I did finally have to replace the bowl on my 600 because walnut media had worn a hole through it over the course of a couple decades. I constantly buy, sell, and trade Lyman & Ideal molds, outside of a few ill-conceived designs, no real issues. I've never had to send a mold to the factory for anything. I have probably a dozen or so old style handles. The only issues they had were from my setting the wooden handles on the lip of the pot while pre-heating, that does tend to char them a bit. My thermometer is over 20 years old and has never missed a day of work. I did replace my two 450 sizers to a Star, but not because they were problematical, I just wanted straight through sizing. All in all, it's worth more to me to buy something that doesn't require untold internet pages of repairs and corrections to simply make equipment usable. What am I missing here?

I shall wait here whilst somebody calls "dogpile"!

[pworley1]

I have mostly Lyman and Ideal equipment. The only piece that I don't use very much anymore is their powder measure. I never could get it to be consistent with stick powder. For the money Lyman can't be beaten.

[mac266]

I have all the colors in my reloading / casting gear -- Dillon blue, RCBS green, Hornady red, Lee red, and Lyman orange / black (none of the older companies though). I've found Lyman products to be pretty good, except when I was pistol shooting semi-professionally I burned out two motors on a Lyman tumbler and had to upgrade to the big one Dillon makes.

Although I haven't purchased a muzzleloader in 20 years, the one I did buy was a Lyman and it still works fine. I shoot it a few times a year and have hunted deer with it. I've heard from the serious muzzleloaders that Lyman muzzleloaders have, as of late, taken a quality control nosedive. A muzzleloader forum I occasionally visit is chock full of stories about off-center bores, non-functioning locks, 1/4" gaps between wood and metal (yes a QUARTER OF AN INCH!), etc. Apparently Lyman guns are imported -- Lyman doesn't make them themselves -- so the QC issues are outside their control.

I would imagine the products Lyman is producing themselves are still good Lyman quality. I just hope they can get a handle on their imported guns. I'm in the market for a Pennsylvania or Kentucky style flintlock, but this time I think I'm going with a Pedersoli.

[mdi]

Funny, I don't hear much Lyman bashing. For almost anything about/for bullet casting, Lyman is the go-to folks. Now, just hint at the name Lee, and the bashing starts...

[Kylongrifle]

About the only bashing I hear is some of lymans molds throwing undersized boolits. Well Ive seen several guys complain about new production lyman muzzleloaders quality control being down too.

[doctorggg]

I've had to send back 2 molds in the past 12 months due to undersized bullets. I use lots of Lyman equipment and find it very durable. I also have had tumblers lasting 20 years.

[trapper9260]

When i first got into reloading of rifle and handgun and casting it was all Lyman that was back in the mid 80's and that same molds and all that I got still work for me and the scale I had to send it back once because the pin that it balance on came loose and they fix it for me and no problem and they where always helpful also.I did get some of the other makes later on and so far it all work for me and that is Lee and RCBS and hornady.When I first started and where I was brought up Lyman was also the only know one to get beside the Lee shotgun reloader.

[K-Rod]

We still see a lot of Lyman bashing around here. I find it surprising because I've had really good luck with them, much of my equipment is over 20 years old and still performs like new. The only real issue I had was a bad run of heating elements for my Mag 20 about ten years ago. My two tumblers have over 20 years each on them, I did finally have to replace the bowl on my 600 because walnut media had worn a hole through it over the course of a couple decades. I constantly buy, sell, and trade Lyman & Ideal molds, outside of a few ill-conceived designs, no real issues. I've never had to send a mold to the factory for anything. I have probably a dozen or so old style handles. The only issues they had were from my setting the wooden handles on the lip of the pot while pre-heating, that does tend to char them a bit. My thermometer is over 20 years old and has never missed a day of work. I did replace my two 450 sizers to a Star, but not because they were problematical, I just wanted straight through sizing. All in all, it's worth more to me to buy something that doesn't require untold internet pages of repairs and corrections to simply make equipment usable. What am I missing here?

I shall wait here whilst somebody calls "dogpile"!

You're talking about equipment that you have had for 20+ years. Most of the complaints that I've seen about Lyman products is recent manufacture. I have a lot of Lyman molds that are excellent molds but they are older molds. I just bought my first New Lyman mold a few weeks ago & it looks as though its way undersized by like .004". Not acceptable.

Its the same with a lot of companies (S&W, Remington). QC drops off over the years due to training drift, costs & turn over of employee's. I don't think people are "Bashing" ALL Lyman Products. I believe its just the current manufacture stuff. Plain & simple, things are just not made with pride anymore.

Its all about High Volume. Lowering the high, prideful QC stardards of yester-years to get out more product, means more MONEY which = PROFIT. Things are just not made the way they use to be. Lyman is no exception. Buy old, be happy. Buy new, be disappointed.

[Larry Gibson]

I've a standing off to test Lyman moulds to see if they don't cast to at least nominal diameter with a correct alloy (COWWs is not the correct alloy) and casting technique. If they don't my offer is to buy them. I take all the risk. So far I have tested 11 moulds, most of them new moulds, sent to me. I have not bought a single one of them as they all cast to .001+ over nominal diameter.

Usually the alloy the owner was using was COWWs or COWWs + 50% lead. Both are deficient in tin and prevent the alloy from filling out the mould correctly.

Another problem commonly encountered is casting with the alloy at to low a temperature. This can especially cause problems when winter comes on and the ambient temp in the casting area goes down. The alloy cools much quicker as does the mould. What worked in the warmer summer time may not always work in the colder winter time.

As much as we don't like to admit it many times the problem is also "pilot error". Many castors buy the equipment and just start casting w/o reading the "how to cast properly" sections of numerous manuals, especially Lyman's CBH's. Everyone who casts has started with minimal knowledge but many fail to "read the directions before assembly" part before getting started. Many of us here always suggest the new castor study those manuals a bit before starting and then ask questions here. There are many very experienced casters here more than willing to help. Also remember there are more than one solutions to many problems and all may not work. We are here to help find the right solutions and help the new caster (or even the old experienced caster who comes up against a problem) solve those problems.

Bashing anyone's products does no one any good when it is we that may be the problem.

My offer still stands; got a problem with a Lyman mould, old or new, that cast undersize? Send it to me for testing. I use a correct alloy and the simple yet effective technique of casting with bottom pour or dipper as shown in Lyman's CBH #3. If the mould cast to at least nominal diameter with such I will return it at my expense to you with full details and sample bullets. If the mould does not cast to at least nominal diameter I will buy it for what you paid for it + the shipping to me if that's what you want. If not I will return it to you so you can then return it to Lyman. That's the offer.

Larry Gibson

[fryboy]

it isnt just their newer molds .... we've also been presented with several reports of the newer 4500 being drilled a bit off center ( ram to die hole alignment )
i own two newer lyman molds ( new as in recent manufacture and i broke their cherry ) , the lil 225-415 is spot on , the 452-374 DV just barely makes diameter with #2 alloy but even using lighter linotype throws 20 grains heavier than they state , using my alloy it's even heavier and running it thru a lube sizer die doesnt size it ( i want to term that operation lubing lolz )

[geargnasher]

The only Lyman equipment I've ever had any trouble with were the 12 moulds I've purchased since 2007. Every single one of them had serious defects, either casting undersized (worn cherries?), cavity halves being offset from each other (worn boring vise runways?), or cavities not being cut to full depth in the blocks (chips caught between blocks when machining?).

My older Lyman moulds, i.e. dated prior to 2007, have mostly been excellent, casting round boolits that dropped at their nominal diameter or better in most cases even with 50/50 wheel weights/pure with 1% added tin, or at least with COWW +2% tin.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe their mould production quality is in the pooper. I've already decided what I think.

Gear

[cbrick]

The only Lyman equipment I've ever had any trouble with were the 12 moulds I've purchased since 2007. Gear

Only 12?

Come on Gear, ya gotta give'em a chance. :coffeecom

Rick

[w5pv]

What few Lyman products I use has served me well.

[Usmc1968]

I just picked up a Lyman 4 Cavity 452460 4C Mould for $50 on Amazon. I will let you know how the bullets come out. On initial inspection everything looked nice, clean, sharp and closed tightly.

Semper Fi

[Green Frog]

Unlike the nay-sayers, I tend to buy orange first. Back in my day of writing the occasional product review for the Single Shot Rifle Journal, Karen used to send me the occasional product to review and I never was disappointed with and never needed to heap untrue praise on any of them. OTOH, I buy old moulds by preference because the patterns I like all seem to be the ones that were discontinued long ago. I use what works, and not what other folks just tell me I should like, so if something is available from more than one source, Lyman will often get the nod absent any over riding reason to go elsewhere. JMHO, YMMV!

Froggie

[btroj]

The only Lyman equipment I've ever had any trouble with were the 12 moulds I've purchased since 2007. Every single one of them had serious defects, either casting undersized (worn cherries?), cavity halves being offset from each other (worn boring vise runways?), or cavities not being cut to full depth in the blocks (chips caught between blocks when machining?).

My older Lyman moulds, i.e. dated prior to 2007, have mostly been excellent, casting round boolits that dropped at their nominal diameter or better in most cases even with 50/50 wheel weights/pure with 1% added tin, or at least with COWW +2% tin.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe their mould production quality is in the pooper. I've already decided what I think.

Gear

Dude, you have killed more deer with a car than that!

I don't own any Lyman dies, can't say why, I just don't. The moulds I have are fine, none are newer than 10 years old or more. They cast the spec size, that just happens to be smaller than I want in many cases. That isn't their fault, I bought a mould that casts the size it was supposed to.

I wouldn't have a problem buying Lyman stuff at all. I have a feeling I will inherit a ton and won't be disappointed, that I am sure.

[Catshooter]

I love Ideal/Lyman. I just dislike the mindless corporation they've become. Like the company that calls itself Smith & Wesson. They both have wonderful histories but have lost their way under the guidance of accountants.

I prefer Ideal/Lyman moulds over all others, even new ones. I've had good luck with them. I have a newer 429421 that I thought was casting small, but Larry's advice works. Some tin and a bit higher temp makes a difference.


Cat

[Good Cheer]

Mounted a new Lyman lubrisizer yesterday. The machining of the ram and housing are rough compared to those of yesteryear, with vibration felt through the handle. Really don't think it will last as long as the one it is replacing.

[bhn22]

I love Ideal/Lyman. I just dislike the mindless corporation they've become. Like the company that calls itself Smith & Wesson. They both have wonderful histories but have lost their way under the guidance of accounts.
Cat

Thank you Cat. I believe that's the best way I've seen that point expressed yet.

[doghawg]

I bought one bad Lyman mold a couple of years ago that I returned to Midway. It was the #457643 that had badly offset cavities.
BUT...since then I got a #429244, #452374 and #452460...all very good, round and full diameter.
AND...the new 4th ed. cast bullet handbook was worth the wait!

[Buzz64]

Been waiting 10 months (valid backorder with Brownell's) and looks like at least two (or more) for the new Mag 25 with temp control. It will be interesting to see if that 'new' piece of equipment works as advertised. I'm very happy with my Lee pro IV (over 800# of boolits through it without ANY dripping and no home mods, except added a Frozone PID. Just use well cleaned COWW ingots and never drop below about an inch of lead in the bottom.

Much truth to what Larry said above about alloys. If you have problems, first step is to do a little reading (CBH or here) and TRY something different. Unless it is a gross misalignment most the time you can resolve the problem with a little 'experimentation'.

[shuckinthecorn]

I bought one of their mold handles from Amazon.com. When it came, I noticed a place on the packaging that had been blacked out with a marker. Then, the print on the attached caution label combined with the yellow looking wood got me to wondering exactly where this was made. No where on either the packaging or the tool was that now indicated.
I emailed Lyman C/S and they confirmed that it was MADE IN CHINA. Strange thing is, they forgot to reflect that in the price.
I returned it, at my expense.

[Catshooter]

You're welcome bnh. Though I really hate to have to say it.

I guess I should just count my blessings as they are. Due to the mighty Al Gore we have this wonderful site that has taught me so much that I needed to know about casting that I didn't.

And we live in a semi-free country still.


Cat