Quickload calculations for double charge!

[andym79]

Hi guys,

not that I ever plan on doing it but I would like to know the likely pressure produced from double charging one of my loads.

I previously used a load in my 30-30 that couldn't be double charged, but pursuing accuracy has lead me to a load which makes it possible. The same is true of my 6.5 x 55.

To attempt, to exclude a double charge, I weigh each case empty, charge, weigh and then seat the bullet. After I have finished loading a batch, /I place a dummy round on the scales and weigh each round against it.

If some body who has quick-load, could please run some simulation for me it would be greatly appreciated! I want to determine if I am playing with fire, and how hot that fire is!

The loads (if doubled) are as follows:
30-30 165 grain cast RNFP seating depth .475", OAL 2.510", no filler H4227 34 grains
As above with H4198 32 grains.

6.5 X 55 140 grain cast, GC, seating depth .270", OAL 3.000", no filler, H4227 34 grains.
As above with H4198 32 grains.

Thanks

[milkman]

I came up with 30-30 H4227 34g 117%fill 126K, 100%fill 74k
H4189 32g 108% fill 78.5K

6.5x55 H4227 65K 75%fill
H4198 45.6K 69%fill

It looks like the Suede is the problem child. Use lots of care. Out of curiosity, do the Quickload results on the 30-30 look real-life to you as far as fill levels? I never like to use computer projections without double checking with reality. Also finger flicks can cause garbage in-garbage out results.

[MtGun44]

Here is your fun -

4.8 Titegroup in .45 ACP under 200 SWC - double charge is possible
4.1 Titegroup in 9mm under a 124 gr bullet - double charge is probably possible.

Doubling these ought to get you about 50-60K psi, but it would be interesting to
see what you get with Quickload.

Bill

[Frozone]

I'd run it but I don't have Titegroup listed in QL.
Missing a few other as well.

[andym79]

Out of curiosity, do the Quickload results on the 30-30 look real-life to you as far as fill levels?.

No, the 30-30 case will charge around 2.5 times before reaching the bullet base with these two powders! I actually did it to see.

[Digital Dan]

Andy, one of your best defenses against is an orderly loading process and a loading block to hold the cases. After charging the cases pick up a flashlight and look. A double charge of virtually any description will stand out like a sore thumb. Charge a couple of them right and wrong, take a look and you will see for yourself.

[milkman]

Mtgun44
45 ACP 4.8g Titegroup = 11.5K PSI---683 FPS
9.6g = 43.7K PSI --- 1200 FPS
9MM 4.1 Titegroup = 29.4K PSI --- 1037 FPS
8.2 = 151K PSI --- kaboom QL shows about 120%fill-- is that close to actual?

[milkman]

Andy
I re-entered the 30/30 figures and Quickload insists that the case is overfull on the doubled charge. Multiple sources are great, but the old eyeball is the most reliable.

[MtGun44]

Not sure on the 9mm, but the 4.8 in .45 ACP WILL fit. QL is low on the 4.8, that load is more like
840-860 range. The QL number for 4.1 matches Hodgdon's numbers pretty well.

If it won't fit in the 9mm case that is GOOD. I guarantee that 4.8 of BE (near identical
to TG) will Kaboom the case in a 1911, verified in actual testing. :-(

How about 40 gr of 2400 in a .45-70 under a 405 gr bullet? I'd bet that would be bad
news and 20 gr is a nice load.

Bill

[milkman]

45-70 2400 powder

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 66 32.00 1040 973 38381 24255 91.2 0.492 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-18.0 68 32.80 1067 1023 40621 25136 92.3 0.477 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-16.0 70 33.60 1093 1075 42953 26008 93.4 0.463 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-14.0 71 34.40 1120 1127 45382 26871 94.3 0.449 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.0 73 35.20 1146 1181 47909 27718 95.2 0.436 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-10.0 74 36.00 1172 1236 50540 28548 96.0 0.424 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-08.0 76 36.80 1199 1292 53279 29363 96.7 0.412 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 78 37.60 1225 1349 56129 30157 97.4 0.401 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 79 38.40 1251 1407 59096 30930 98.0 0.390 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 81 39.20 1277 1467 62184 31681 98.5 0.379 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 83 40.00 1303 1527 65399 32406 98.9 0.369 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 84 40.80 1329 1588 68747 33103 99.3 0.360 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 86 41.60 1355 1650 72233 33774 99.6 0.350 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 88 42.40 1380 1714 75864 34412 99.8 0.341 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 89 43.20 1406 1778 79647 35015 99.9 0.333 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 91 44.00 1431 1843 83590 35585 100.0 0.324 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

QL is not too good for straight wall cases. It works best on bottleneck brass.

[MtGun44]

Thanks for the info on 2400 in the .45-70. A full case would be very
bad.

Bill

[leadman]

Did you ever read Ackley's report on the military rifles he tested to destruction? He had to work to destroy a couple of them.

[smokesahoy]

Leadman, is there a link to that?

[Old Dawg]

With Quickload the default case capacity is an average. For the most accurate calculations one needs to use the measured case capacity for a round fired in your gun. Not only are there slight differences between chambers there are also differences between different brands of brass.

[dverna]

Andy

I prevent the possibility of a double charge by NEVER letting a charged case leave my hand until the bullet is seated.

1. Drop the powder or weigh it and put powder in the case.
2. Move the case to the press and seat the bullet. (note: there is nothing to be gained by putting cases charged with powder into a loading block, and them picking them back up again to seat the bullet - so you not only load more safely, but save a wee bit of time)
3. Place the completed round in the box.

I never use a loading block. It serves no purpose except to "count" the number of rounds you are loading.

Don Verna

[stephenj]

I have to disagree with the above philosophy .
The loading block serves the very useful function of letting you compare the powder charge in all of the cases before setting a bullet in the case . To think that never setting the case down will prevent a double charge is getting. complacent and to think in tje terms of absolutes is foolish.
Let your attn wander just one second and you can make a mistake quite quickly
At least the loading block gives you the opertunity to double chek yourself

[myg30]

A Member here a while back made a Level gauge he drops into each case after filling with powder before seating boolits. It is a good idea !
I used a pencil. Put a mark on it for fill level and dropped it into each case. Quick and easy double check after filling the loading block.

I like using two loading blocks. Transfer cases after each step ! Works fer me. Might not be the fastest but ....

IF YOUR IN A RUSH TO RELOAD, DON'T DO IT !! When time is short, I do less important prep steps.

Mike