win 94, very happy except!

[andym79]

Hi, I have always been very happy with my Win 94 in 30-30. I had a fairly accurate load, but I wanted something that would give me a sporting chance in lever competition.

Well I think I found it, this group was 10 shots at 100 yards peep sights with the carbine model.

92200

So I think I have found my load!

Whilst I was at the range I tried several loads, one was very accurate; but two of the shots had key holed within an inch of the other three shots! Now I am now expert; but I thought key holing was a result of a bullet not stabilizing. I can rule out projectile diameter, 48 other shots cut circles! It was excess leading in the bore, the rifle shoot ten normal holes after. I assume this occurred due to a lack of pressure or velocity or both; but why?

92201

Do my necks need annealing? Was the powder simple at the front of the cartridge? Where these bad bullets?

I would have thought if these bullets were unstable they wouldn't have landed only an inch from the others?

Ideas?

[220swiftfn]

Looks like your target backer is shot out to me, not keyholing. I'd load up some more and retest.....


Dan

[pull the trigger]

Dont look like keyholes to me. Looks like two boolits next to each other. BTW your coin is not familiar to us yankees. It could be 15 cm in diameter. Looks like some stellar shooting. How old is that 94?

[45-70bpcr]

The big question. What is the load? That is some great shooting. Congratulations :-)

[GunnyJohn]

The big question. What is the load? That is some great shooting. Congratulations :-)

Second that. I'd love to get my 30-30 shooting like that.

[fouronesix]

Can't be key holing much with that group size at 100. Shoot at 150-200 on fresh, stiff target paper. That should spread group out and the better paper should show yawing imprints- if there are any.

[shredder]

Agreed with the above. The boolit hoes are circular indicating point on performance. The target paper tore as the lead passed through, indicating that the paper was unsupported at that point. A gust of wind can lift your target paper off the backer ever so slightly and cause this. No worries mate.

[andym79]

I will try it shooting with some thick cardboard behind. the club backing boards are shot out pretty badly.

This particular model 1894 is from 1977, so free of the rebounding hammer and cross bolt safety. Its previous owner apparently only shot around 100 jacketed rounds through it and lots of cast; certainly since its been with me its only be shooting cast.

The load was CCI primers, fire formed cases, 165 grain RNFP projectiles sized to .309, OAL 2.520" with 16 grains of H4227.

I will take it out tomorrow and see what it does with some more backing.

[fouronesix]

Another thing you can do in addition to the better target paper, would be to shoot a "poor man's moving backer". Put 5-10 sighting bulls/dots spread out on the target and fire one shot at each. That will keep each bullet hole separate so they can be examined individually.

[FergusonTO35]

I would try with different target paper and backing. Some paper will make keyhole impressions no matter what.

[Huntsman]

Good groups. My 26" BBL 94 gave the same groups at 100 yds. Great cartridge and a great little gun. I posted my fantastic results in the Hunting with Cast Boolits though, my backing paper wasn't flat and my target was the 4th or 5th stapled to it. One of the members here told me that I was key holing. You could see the ripples in the paper even, it took a bit to explain that and I still don't think he was convinced. It's nice to see that you got the opposite reaction. My load for my 30-30 was. Lee 170 gr GC and 24grs of 5744, Mike Venturino 's favored powder. It's crazy how these old carbines shoot like a million bucks eh.

[BCRider]

I agree with the guys that are saying that it's just the target paper ripping. There's clearly a clean round hole at the end of each "keyhole" that is produced by a nicely end on bullet.

In an actual keyhole tumbling bullet the hole is more a slot like shape. Not a classic hole with a truncated conical shape or notch below it like you have.

Nice to hear that you're getting these results with 4227 as I just happen to have a hair under 2 lbs of it and need to get back to loading up some .30-30.

Which brand and model of peep sight did you put on your '94?

[rodsvet]

Wish I could get my Winny to "keyhole" like that!

[Outpost75]

I don't think your 94 is keyholing, but your target is shot up. Nice groups BTW.

I have found model 94 .30-30s run about 3-4" at 100 yards with factory loads. You've found a sweet spot with yours.

Please share! We'd like to know. You are doing everything right.

[win94]

what kind of projective are you using??? plated/jacketed/ lead????
Have you used xtreme 308 copper plated before???

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just measured a five cent coin, a poofteenth of an inch short of 8/10ths of an inch, so that makes those groups minute of dead critter!

[Greg B.]

If I was getting those kind of groups with my30/30 I wouldn't care if the boolit was going through the target backwards. That is nice shooting.

"Liberalism an extreme form of mental illness"
CBC

[nicholst55]

I briefly owned a No. 4 Mk 1 Lee Enfield that had a shot out barrel, and keyholed bullets. At 50 yards, the bullet holes were oblong, as the bullets had unmistakably penetrated the target on their sides. Your target sure doesn't look like keyholes to me, as stated previously. I think you've got a keeper there.